Yes but Aristotle also said... "equals should be treated equally and unequals unequally" .. "the guest will judge better of a feast than the cook" ... and "The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal."
NO, Unemployment is NOT DOWN
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danielpalos
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- #302
Correcting for capitalism's Natural Rate of Unemployment through a form of minimum wage also corrects for a poverty of money in our Institution of money based markets.
danielpalos
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #303
Correcting for any market inefficiency promotes the general welfare, but especially the market for labor.
Wrong. Minimum wage increases unemployment, thus it does not "correct" capitalism's Natural Rate of Unemployment. Quite the opposite. You must be a democrat.
As for your accusation that forcing corporations to leave to seek lower wage labor... somehow corrects for a poverty of money in our money based markets... Whether corporations get lower wage labor through off-shoring or through lower labor rates here in the states... either way the profits go up and you get more investors. So either way profit, thus investor cash is tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor.
Right now the big inefficiencies are, for the most part, being driven/forced by our republican and democrat leaders in DC.
Faun
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Nonsense. There is no such correlation. Sometimes unemployment increased following minimum wage increases; other times it fell. There are other factors affecting unemployment, not increasing the minimum wage.
What part of my statement "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor" confused you so bad that you think I meant the opposite of what I said?Nonsense. There is no such correlation. Sometimes unemployment increased following minimum wage increases; other times it fell. There are other factors affecting unemployment, not increasing the minimum wage.
Faun
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The part where you said, "minimum wage increases unemployment." It does not.What part of my statement "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor" confused you so bad that you think I meant the opposite of what I said?Nonsense. There is no such correlation. Sometimes unemployment increased following minimum wage increases; other times it fell. There are other factors affecting unemployment, not increasing the minimum wage.
That's not what I said. I said "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor." I did not say "minimum wage increases unemployment."The part where you said, "minimum wage increases unemployment." It does not.What part of my statement "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor" confused you so bad that you think I meant the opposite of what I said?Nonsense. There is no such correlation. Sometimes unemployment increased following minimum wage increases; other times it fell. There are other factors affecting unemployment, not increasing the minimum wage.
Can you tell the difference? Do you or do you not understand that employers have a choice when you raise minimum wage. Their choice is give those people a raise or fire them and replace them will illegal workers off shore workers... or just fire the higher paid folk and off shore those jobs to make up for the payroll increase. Happens every time minimum wage goes up. People loose jobs.
edthecynic
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That's not what I said. I said "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor." I did not say "minimum wage increases unemployment."The part where you said, "minimum wage increases unemployment." It does not.What part of my statement "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor" confused you so bad that you think I meant the opposite of what I said?Nonsense. There is no such correlation. Sometimes unemployment increased following minimum wage increases; other times it fell. There are other factors affecting unemployment, not increasing the minimum wage.
Can you tell the difference? Do you or do you not understand that employers have a choice when you raise minimum wage. Their choice is give those people a raise or fire them and replace them will illegal workers off shore workers... or just fire the higher paid folk and off shore those jobs to make up for the payroll increase. Happens every time minimum wage goes up. People loose jobs.
danielpalos
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #311
You seem to be missing the point, like usual; you must be on the right. It depends on the form of minimum wage. One form of minimum wage could correct for the inefficiency of a Natural Rate of Unemployment on an at-will basis.
danielpalos
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #312
There should be no appeal to ignorance of the law due to mere politics.
danielpalos
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #313
What part of my statement "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor" confused you so bad that you think I meant the opposite of what I said?Nonsense. There is no such correlation. Sometimes unemployment increased following minimum wage increases; other times it fell. There are other factors affecting unemployment, not increasing the minimum wage.
Doesn't matter if we use public policy to correct for the inefficiency of a natural rate of unemployment by using socialism to bailout capitalism, like usual.
You're a LIAR. I qualified my meaning in the next paragraph. You miss-quoted me. Which, btw, is against forum rules.That's not what I said. I said "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor." I did not say "minimum wage increases unemployment."The part where you said, "minimum wage increases unemployment." It does not.What part of my statement "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor" confused you so bad that you think I meant the opposite of what I said?Nonsense. There is no such correlation. Sometimes unemployment increased following minimum wage increases; other times it fell. There are other factors affecting unemployment, not increasing the minimum wage.
Can you tell the difference? Do you or do you not understand that employers have a choice when you raise minimum wage. Their choice is give those people a raise or fire them and replace them will illegal workers off shore workers... or just fire the higher paid folk and off shore those jobs to make up for the payroll increase. Happens every time minimum wage goes up. People loose jobs.
Typical lying socialist.What part of my statement "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor" confused you so bad that you think I meant the opposite of what I said?Nonsense. There is no such correlation. Sometimes unemployment increased following minimum wage increases; other times it fell. There are other factors affecting unemployment, not increasing the minimum wage.
Doesn't matter if we use public policy to correct for the inefficiency of a natural rate of unemployment by using socialism to bailout capitalism, like usual.
Faun
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But you're a rightwingnut who doesn't understand that companies paying minimum wage rarely resort to those measures. The majority of minimum wage jobs are food and hospitality services. Companies like McDonald's are neither hiring illegal aliens for less than minimum wage or moving their fry cooks offshore. Companies are far more likely to raise their prices than fire employees, whom they need to run their business, to compensate the higher salaries. And as shown in the chart I posted, sometimes unemployment goes up after a minimum wage hike ... and sometimes it goes down.That's not what I said. I said "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor." I did not say "minimum wage increases unemployment."The part where you said, "minimum wage increases unemployment." It does not.What part of my statement "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor" confused you so bad that you think I meant the opposite of what I said?Nonsense. There is no such correlation. Sometimes unemployment increased following minimum wage increases; other times it fell. There are other factors affecting unemployment, not increasing the minimum wage.
Can you tell the difference? Do you or do you not understand that employers have a choice when you raise minimum wage. Their choice is give those people a raise or fire them and replace them will illegal workers off shore workers... or just fire the higher paid folk and off shore those jobs to make up for the payroll increase. Happens every time minimum wage goes up. People loose jobs.
You are wrong, the result of raising minimum wage on services companies like McDonalds and Grocery stores is automated service. Eg. frozen pre-prepared food, push buttons, touch screens, and ring it up yourself.But you're a rightwingnut who doesn't understand that companies paying minimum wage rarely resort to those measures. The majority of minimum wage jobs are food and hospitality services. Companies like McDonald's are neither hiring illegal aliens for less than minimum wage or moving their fry cooks offshore. Companies are far more likely to raise their prices than fire employees, whom they need to run their business, to compensate the higher salaries. And as shown in the chart I posted, sometimes unemployment goes up after a minimum wage hike ... and sometimes it goes down.That's not what I said. I said "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor." I did not say "minimum wage increases unemployment."The part where you said, "minimum wage increases unemployment." It does not.What part of my statement "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor" confused you so bad that you think I meant the opposite of what I said?Nonsense. There is no such correlation. Sometimes unemployment increased following minimum wage increases; other times it fell. There are other factors affecting unemployment, not increasing the minimum wage.
Can you tell the difference? Do you or do you not understand that employers have a choice when you raise minimum wage. Their choice is give those people a raise or fire them and replace them will illegal workers off shore workers... or just fire the higher paid folk and off shore those jobs to make up for the payroll increase. Happens every time minimum wage goes up. People loose jobs.
Faun
Diamond Member
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Stop crying like a baby. He did not misquote you. He quoted you verbatim, as did I. You said, "minimum wage increases unemployment, thus it does not "correct" capitalism's Natural Rate of Unemployment." which is patently absurd as evidenced by the chart I posted. Your further explanation as to where you think those jobs disappear does not alter the meaning of the part we quoted.You're a LIAR. I qualified my meaning in the next paragraph. You miss-quoted me. Which, btw, is against forum rules.That's not what I said. I said "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor." I did not say "minimum wage increases unemployment."The part where you said, "minimum wage increases unemployment." It does not.What part of my statement "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor" confused you so bad that you think I meant the opposite of what I said?Nonsense. There is no such correlation. Sometimes unemployment increased following minimum wage increases; other times it fell. There are other factors affecting unemployment, not increasing the minimum wage.
Can you tell the difference? Do you or do you not understand that employers have a choice when you raise minimum wage. Their choice is give those people a raise or fire them and replace them will illegal workers off shore workers... or just fire the higher paid folk and off shore those jobs to make up for the payroll increase. Happens every time minimum wage goes up. People loose jobs.
Stop crying like a baby. He did not misquote you. He quoted you verbatim, as did I. You said, "minimum wage increases unemployment, thus it does not "correct" capitalism's Natural Rate of Unemployment." which is patently absurd as evidenced by the chart I posted. Your further explanation as to where you think those jobs disappear does not alter the meaning of the part we quoted.You're a LIAR. I qualified my meaning in the next paragraph. You miss-quoted me. Which, btw, is against forum rules.
Wrong. I clearly explained that when there are no rules to force the jobs to stay in place, forcing the wages up is equivalent to forcing the jobs out of our market. Thus while I indicated that in our environment where there are no rules forcing jobs to stay in place... minimum wage increases unemployment. Thus I was quoted out of context. Removing qualifying statements from a statement is miss-quoting.
For example, in Germany there are laws against offshoring and layoffs... thus forced minimum wage hikes, if the company can stay in business, might not result in more unemployment... rather it might result in less profit in the short term instead if the prices can't be raised.
Faun
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My goodness, you're a fucking idiot.You are wrong, the result of raising minimum wage on services companies like McDonalds and Grocery stores is automated service. Eg. frozen pre-prepared food, push buttons, touch screens, and ring it up yourself.But you're a rightwingnut who doesn't understand that companies paying minimum wage rarely resort to those measures. The majority of minimum wage jobs are food and hospitality services. Companies like McDonald's are neither hiring illegal aliens for less than minimum wage or moving their fry cooks offshore. Companies are far more likely to raise their prices than fire employees, whom they need to run their business, to compensate the higher salaries. And as shown in the chart I posted, sometimes unemployment goes up after a minimum wage hike ... and sometimes it goes down.That's not what I said. I said "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor." I did not say "minimum wage increases unemployment."The part where you said, "minimum wage increases unemployment." It does not.What part of my statement "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor" confused you so bad that you think I meant the opposite of what I said?Nonsense. There is no such correlation. Sometimes unemployment increased following minimum wage increases; other times it fell. There are other factors affecting unemployment, not increasing the minimum wage.
Can you tell the difference? Do you or do you not understand that employers have a choice when you raise minimum wage. Their choice is give those people a raise or fire them and replace them will illegal workers off shore workers... or just fire the higher paid folk and off shore those jobs to make up for the payroll increase. Happens every time minimum wage goes up. People loose jobs.
Those are the results of advancing technologies, not increases to minimum wage, which companies regularly take advantage of to cut costs whether the minimum wage is raised or not. Companies already paying more than minimum wage do that and minimum wage paying companies do that even when the minimum wage is not increased. That has nothing to do with the minimum wage. And must you be reminded, you already made the asinine claim that minimum wage jobs are being offshored or given to illegal aliens? It's too late to change your idiotic point, you already made it. Are you capable of not being a moron?Similar threads
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