No Thread about the West Virginia Coal Mine Tragedy?...

[Coyote]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...nother-republican-bush-policy-people-die.html

The fruit of "Voluntary Compliance".

One wonders, what other disasters are waiting because of the failed policy of "Voluntary Compliance"?

Would you accept "Voluntary Compliance" on the nations highways? Waterways?

One more Repubicain mess we will have to clean up.

Dumb shit. Taking a true tragedy and trying to politicize it.
Negged.

I live in WV, a state that owes much to coal, both in dollars and lives. In our state, coal has a long history of abstentee owners, of short cuts on safety, of good paying jobs in an area with few opportunities. It also has a legacy of hard fought for rights, safety, pensions and medical benefits that can disappear when the coal company reorganizes under bankruptcy,

One thing the Bush administration did was to make it easier on the coal companies to avoid compliance with safety regulations if it was deened to be too costly. This - for better or worse was an administration sympathetic to corporate America.

Maybe he is politicizing a tragedy.

Maybe there is a kernal of truth here too.

 

[Ringel05]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...nother-republican-bush-policy-people-die.html

The fruit of "Voluntary Compliance".

One wonders, what other disasters are waiting because of the failed policy of "Voluntary Compliance"?

Would you accept "Voluntary Compliance" on the nations highways? Waterways?

One more Repubicain mess we will have to clean up.

Dumb shit. Taking a true tragedy and trying to politicize it.
Negged.

I live in WV, a state that owes much to coal, both in dollars and lives. In our state, coal has a long history of abstentee owners, of short cuts on safety, of good paying jobs in an area with few opportunities. It also has a legacy of hard fought for rights, safety, pensions and medical benefits that can disappear when the coal company reorganizes under bankruptcy,

One thing the Bush administration did was to make it easier on the coal companies to avoid compliance with safety regulations if it was deened to be too costly. This - for better or worse was an administration sympathetic to corporate America.

Maybe he is politicizing a tragedy.

Maybe there is a kernal of truth here too.

I agree but in my humble but accurate opinion this isn't the thread for it.
Our prayers go out to those who have lost their loved ones.

 

[Coyote]

Dumb shit. Taking a true tragedy and trying to politicize it.
Negged.

I live in WV, a state that owes much to coal, both in dollars and lives. In our state, coal has a long history of abstentee owners, of short cuts on safety, of good paying jobs in an area with few opportunities. It also has a legacy of hard fought for rights, safety, pensions and medical benefits that can disappear when the coal company reorganizes under bankruptcy,

One thing the Bush administration did was to make it easier on the coal companies to avoid compliance with safety regulations if it was deened to be too costly. This - for better or worse was an administration sympathetic to corporate America.

Maybe he is politicizing a tragedy.

Maybe there is a kernal of truth here too.

I agree but in my humble but accurate opinion this isn't the thread for it.
Our prayers go out to those who have lost their loved ones.

Yes...

 

[Gunny]

Seacoastonline.com

Well, here it is then...

I am a Coal Miner's Daughter's Son... Williamson... The Billion Dollar Coal Field.

My Family still Works the Argus...

Don Blankenship, the CEO of Massey is Kin from Matewan.

My Grandma was a Blankenship.

These people Live very simple and Hard Lives...

It Touches EVERY Person who's in Mining or Related to it.

Pray for that Community.



peace...

Give the lefties time. When they can figure out how to blame it on the right, they will.

 

[uptownlivin90]

Their families are in my thoughts & prayers.

 

[mal]

Seacoastonline.com

Well, here it is then...

I am a Coal Miner's Daughter's Son... Williamson... The Billion Dollar Coal Field.

My Family still Works the Argus...

Don Blankenship, the CEO of Massey is Kin from Matewan.

My Grandma was a Blankenship.

These people Live very simple and Hard Lives...

It Touches EVERY Person who's in Mining or Related to it.

Pray for that Community.



peace...

Give the lefties time. When they can figure out how to blame it on the right, they will.

^Truth...

They will Attempt to Finally Destroy this Industry with this Tragedy...

They HATE Coal...

But they are Fucking with the Wrong People if they Intend on Ruining these People and their Labors...

They Should NOT Forget History.

These People aren't to be Triffled with.

I'm just Sayin'.

I may be Denverized, but I Know these People...

They take Jobs Knowing they will see an Early Grave for it, but Justify it by Knowing their Families will be Cared for...

Take it from them, Liberals... I Fucking DARE you.

You will only have yourselves to Blame if you are Successful.



peace...

 

[Old Rocks]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...nother-republican-bush-policy-people-die.html

The fruit of "Voluntary Compliance".

One wonders, what other disasters are waiting because of the failed policy of "Voluntary Compliance"?

Would you accept "Voluntary Compliance" on the nations highways? Waterways?

One more Repubicain mess we will have to clean up.

Dumb shit. Taking a true tragedy and trying to politicize it.

Negged.

And I negged you, Radio! I have seen men die on the job because the company ignored safety regulations. This company had hundreds of safety violations in the last two years, and fought in court rather than trying to fix them. Now many of their employees families are bearing the burden of that policy.

The government regulatory agencies are all the workers have to protect them from the greed of a few men. Men who would sacrifice their workers lives rather than pay a few dollars for the neccessary safeguards. When the government fails to perform it's regulatory function because of political influence, we on the factory floor, in the mines, or the woods, pay for that failure with our limbs and lives.

 

[Coyote]

Seacoastonline.com

Well, here it is then...

I am a Coal Miner's Daughter's Son... Williamson... The Billion Dollar Coal Field.

My Family still Works the Argus...

Don Blankenship, the CEO of Massey is Kin from Matewan.

My Grandma was a Blankenship.

These people Live very simple and Hard Lives...

It Touches EVERY Person who's in Mining or Related to it.

Pray for that Community.



peace...

Give the lefties time. When they can figure out how to blame it on the right, they will.

I blame it on Massey Energy, and to a certain extent on a country so desperate for cheap energy it allows the government to be soft towards the energy sector and worker safety and a culture that accepts that mining is inherently dangerous and is willing to settle for less than the best. Is that "blaming it on the right"?

If blaming lack of enforcement of existing safety regulations means "blaming it on the right" - you can go that route and accuse me of it, but it's more complex than that.

Massey has a history of repeated violations that have never been addressed by management.

"Massey in general has made great improvements," Smith said. "But I've looked at other Massey operations, and there's just certain things at this mine that stick out."

Massey has received repeated citations for failure to abide by federal safety rules. Last year, it had 48. This year, the company had six unwarrantable failure violations. It has also had ventilation violations.

"Something was terribly, terribly wrong," Smith said.

There's something wrong with a regulatory system that doesn't quickly address repetitive violations, said Davitt McAteer, a former federal mine safety chief who investigated the Sago and Aracoma mine disasters.

"When you see a mine that continues to have large numbers of citations and penalties month after month, the curative effect has not taken hold, and that needs to be put in place somehow," McAteer said.

Monforton said what's lacking is vigilance.

"We have not invented new ways to kill our mineworkers," she said. "It's explosions and it's roof falls and it's black lung disease. And the ways to prevent those are also well-known."

There is, however, a dismissive attitude that mining is inherently dangerous, Monforton says, and that mine disasters are part of the historical and cultural fabric of mining communities.

"I would pray that we as a country would get beyond this belief that it just goes with the job," she said. "In my research and in my heart of hearts, I know that these types of disasters are 100 percent preventable. But when we continue to have this attitude that this is just part of mining, we will never get there."

Mining is a dangerous and necessary job that extracts the elements which power our economy and allow us to live comfortably. Because of that we owe those men the best in terms of safety.

My father's family came from miners in Shenendoah/Pottstown PA. My husband's family is from WV - his grandfather was a miner. It gives life and it takes life, and they have had to fight for every right, for their pensions, for black lung against large and powerful (and usually abstentee) corporate interests.

 

[mal]

Seacoastonline.com

Well, here it is then...

I am a Coal Miner's Daughter's Son... Williamson... The Billion Dollar Coal Field.

My Family still Works the Argus...

Don Blankenship, the CEO of Massey is Kin from Matewan.

My Grandma was a Blankenship.

These people Live very simple and Hard Lives...

It Touches EVERY Person who's in Mining or Related to it.

Pray for that Community.



peace...

Give the lefties time. When they can figure out how to blame it on the right, they will.

Politicizing a tragedy eh?

I blame it on Massey Energy, and to a certain extent on a country so desperate for cheap energy it allows the government to be soft towards the energy sector and worker safety and a culture that accepts that mining is inherently dangerous and is willing to settle for less than the best. Is that "blaming it on the right"?

If blaming lack of enforcement of existing safety regulations means "blaming it on the right" - you can go that route and accuse me of it, but it's more complex than that.

Massey has a history of repeated violations that have never been addressed by management.

"Massey in general has made great improvements," Smith said. "But I've looked at other Massey operations, and there's just certain things at this mine that stick out."

Massey has received repeated citations for failure to abide by federal safety rules. Last year, it had 48. This year, the company had six unwarrantable failure violations. It has also had ventilation violations.

"Something was terribly, terribly wrong," Smith said.

There's something wrong with a regulatory system that doesn't quickly address repetitive violations, said Davitt McAteer, a former federal mine safety chief who investigated the Sago and Aracoma mine disasters.

"When you see a mine that continues to have large numbers of citations and penalties month after month, the curative effect has not taken hold, and that needs to be put in place somehow," McAteer said.

Monforton said what's lacking is vigilance.

"We have not invented new ways to kill our mineworkers," she said. "It's explosions and it's roof falls and it's black lung disease. And the ways to prevent those are also well-known."

There is, however, a dismissive attitude that mining is inherently dangerous, Monforton says, and that mine disasters are part of the historical and cultural fabric of mining communities.

"I would pray that we as a country would get beyond this belief that it just goes with the job," she said. "In my research and in my heart of hearts, I know that these types of disasters are 100 percent preventable. But when we continue to have this attitude that this is just part of mining, we will never get there."

Mining is a dangerous and necessary job that extracts the elements which power our economy and allow us to live comfortably. Because of that we owe those men the best in terms of safety.

My father's family came from miners in Shenendoah/Pottstown PA. My husband's family is from WV - his grandfather was a miner. It gives life and it takes life, and they have had to fight for every right, for their pensions, for black lung against large and powerful (and usually abstentee) corporate interests.

You don't happen to have some Comparisons from Massey to other Mines, do you?... Violations, that is.

Also other Industries?...

What I don't Like in these Situations is how ONE Company is Painted as the Worst of the Worst because and Accident Happened @ their Mine or Facility.

Not to mention the Media's Distaste for Coal...

Don't Forget about this Administration's Distaste for Coal...

I don't have Time to Quote Obama on this, but I am Sure someone can in my Absence.

MeThinks his Goal was to Bankrupt the Industry.



peace...

 

[rdean]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...nother-republican-bush-policy-people-die.html

The fruit of "Voluntary Compliance".

One wonders, what other disasters are waiting because of the failed policy of "Voluntary Compliance"?

Would you accept "Voluntary Compliance" on the nations highways? Waterways?

One more Republican mess we will have to clean up.

Dumb shit. Taking a true tragedy and trying to politicize it.

Negged.

Double dumb shit. It was the Republicans policy of "Voluntary Compliance" that led to this type of disaster. Why can't Republicans ever take responsibility for their policies of companies over people. They're just a bunch of assholes.

http://www.defendingscience.org/newsroom/upload/NYT_OSHA_April_07.pdf

New York Times Covers OSHA Inaction on Diacetyl and Other Hazards The Pump Handle

 

[rdean]

Give the lefties time. When they can figure out how to blame it on the right, they will.

Politicizing a tragedy eh?

I blame it on Massey Energy, and to a certain extent on a country so desperate for cheap energy it allows the government to be soft towards the energy sector and worker safety and a culture that accepts that mining is inherently dangerous and is willing to settle for less than the best. Is that "blaming it on the right"?

If blaming lack of enforcement of existing safety regulations means "blaming it on the right" - you can go that route and accuse me of it, but it's more complex than that.

Massey has a history of repeated violations that have never been addressed by management.

"Massey in general has made great improvements," Smith said. "But I've looked at other Massey operations, and there's just certain things at this mine that stick out."

Massey has received repeated citations for failure to abide by federal safety rules. Last year, it had 48. This year, the company had six unwarrantable failure violations. It has also had ventilation violations.

"Something was terribly, terribly wrong," Smith said.

There's something wrong with a regulatory system that doesn't quickly address repetitive violations, said Davitt McAteer, a former federal mine safety chief who investigated the Sago and Aracoma mine disasters.

"When you see a mine that continues to have large numbers of citations and penalties month after month, the curative effect has not taken hold, and that needs to be put in place somehow," McAteer said.

Monforton said what's lacking is vigilance.

"We have not invented new ways to kill our mineworkers," she said. "It's explosions and it's roof falls and it's black lung disease. And the ways to prevent those are also well-known."

There is, however, a dismissive attitude that mining is inherently dangerous, Monforton says, and that mine disasters are part of the historical and cultural fabric of mining communities.

"I would pray that we as a country would get beyond this belief that it just goes with the job," she said. "In my research and in my heart of hearts, I know that these types of disasters are 100 percent preventable. But when we continue to have this attitude that this is just part of mining, we will never get there."

Mining is a dangerous and necessary job that extracts the elements which power our economy and allow us to live comfortably. Because of that we owe those men the best in terms of safety.

My father's family came from miners in Shenendoah/Pottstown PA. My husband's family is from WV - his grandfather was a miner. It gives life and it takes life, and they have had to fight for every right, for their pensions, for black lung against large and powerful (and usually abstentee) corporate interests.

You don't happen to have some Comparisons from Massey to other Mines, do you?... Violations, that is.

Also other Industries?...

What I don't Like in these Situations is how ONE Company is Painted as the Worst of the Worst because and Accident Happened @ their Mine or Facility.

Not to mention the Media's Distaste for Coal...

Don't Forget about this Administration's Distaste for Coal...

I don't have Time to Quote Obama on this, but I am Sure someone can in my Absence.

MeThinks his Goal was to Bankrupt the Industry.



peace...

When you have 1300 violations, who cares about "comparisons". That sounds like the Republican strategy of, "But they did it".

 

[goldcatt]

Give the lefties time. When they can figure out how to blame it on the right, they will.

Politicizing a tragedy eh?

I blame it on Massey Energy, and to a certain extent on a country so desperate for cheap energy it allows the government to be soft towards the energy sector and worker safety and a culture that accepts that mining is inherently dangerous and is willing to settle for less than the best. Is that "blaming it on the right"?

If blaming lack of enforcement of existing safety regulations means "blaming it on the right" - you can go that route and accuse me of it, but it's more complex than that.

Massey has a history of repeated violations that have never been addressed by management.

"Massey in general has made great improvements," Smith said. "But I've looked at other Massey operations, and there's just certain things at this mine that stick out."

Massey has received repeated citations for failure to abide by federal safety rules. Last year, it had 48. This year, the company had six unwarrantable failure violations. It has also had ventilation violations.

"Something was terribly, terribly wrong," Smith said.

There's something wrong with a regulatory system that doesn't quickly address repetitive violations, said Davitt McAteer, a former federal mine safety chief who investigated the Sago and Aracoma mine disasters.

"When you see a mine that continues to have large numbers of citations and penalties month after month, the curative effect has not taken hold, and that needs to be put in place somehow," McAteer said.

Monforton said what's lacking is vigilance.

"We have not invented new ways to kill our mineworkers," she said. "It's explosions and it's roof falls and it's black lung disease. And the ways to prevent those are also well-known."

There is, however, a dismissive attitude that mining is inherently dangerous, Monforton says, and that mine disasters are part of the historical and cultural fabric of mining communities.

"I would pray that we as a country would get beyond this belief that it just goes with the job," she said. "In my research and in my heart of hearts, I know that these types of disasters are 100 percent preventable. But when we continue to have this attitude that this is just part of mining, we will never get there."

Mining is a dangerous and necessary job that extracts the elements which power our economy and allow us to live comfortably. Because of that we owe those men the best in terms of safety.

My father's family came from miners in Shenendoah/Pottstown PA. My husband's family is from WV - his grandfather was a miner. It gives life and it takes life, and they have had to fight for every right, for their pensions, for black lung against large and powerful (and usually abstentee) corporate interests.

I'm on the edge of PA anthracite country myself. Almost all the underground mining here is shut down, it's all surface now. But my stepfather is a retired miner, some of my family were Mollies. Either you get it or you don't.

The history and politics of mining and miners is complex, it's not as simple as "Libs this and Cons that". These are tough people who have fought hard for a century and more for their rights and relative safety as well as their livelihoods, and against all manner of vultures corporate and governmental. I'm not sure it shouldn't be moved to a different thread but the policy aspect of this is intertwined with the miners' lives as well as their deaths, and shouldn't be ignored any more than their sacrifices should be.

Maybe it's about time we started valuing these peoples' lives as much as we value what they dig out of the ground.

 

[Coyote]

Give the lefties time. When they can figure out how to blame it on the right, they will.

Politicizing a tragedy eh?

I blame it on Massey Energy, and to a certain extent on a country so desperate for cheap energy it allows the government to be soft towards the energy sector and worker safety and a culture that accepts that mining is inherently dangerous and is willing to settle for less than the best. Is that "blaming it on the right"?

If blaming lack of enforcement of existing safety regulations means "blaming it on the right" - you can go that route and accuse me of it, but it's more complex than that.

Massey has a history of repeated violations that have never been addressed by management.

"Massey in general has made great improvements," Smith said. "But I've looked at other Massey operations, and there's just certain things at this mine that stick out."

Massey has received repeated citations for failure to abide by federal safety rules. Last year, it had 48. This year, the company had six unwarrantable failure violations. It has also had ventilation violations.

"Something was terribly, terribly wrong," Smith said.

There's something wrong with a regulatory system that doesn't quickly address repetitive violations, said Davitt McAteer, a former federal mine safety chief who investigated the Sago and Aracoma mine disasters.

"When you see a mine that continues to have large numbers of citations and penalties month after month, the curative effect has not taken hold, and that needs to be put in place somehow," McAteer said.

Monforton said what's lacking is vigilance.

"We have not invented new ways to kill our mineworkers," she said. "It's explosions and it's roof falls and it's black lung disease. And the ways to prevent those are also well-known."

There is, however, a dismissive attitude that mining is inherently dangerous, Monforton says, and that mine disasters are part of the historical and cultural fabric of mining communities.

"I would pray that we as a country would get beyond this belief that it just goes with the job," she said. "In my research and in my heart of hearts, I know that these types of disasters are 100 percent preventable. But when we continue to have this attitude that this is just part of mining, we will never get there."

Mining is a dangerous and necessary job that extracts the elements which power our economy and allow us to live comfortably. Because of that we owe those men the best in terms of safety.

My father's family came from miners in Shenendoah/Pottstown PA. My husband's family is from WV - his grandfather was a miner. It gives life and it takes life, and they have had to fight for every right, for their pensions, for black lung against large and powerful (and usually abstentee) corporate interests.

You don't happen to have some Comparisons from Massey to other Mines, do you?... Violations, that is.

One of the links I provided has a graph which compares Massey to the national average which has steadily gone down. Masseys line, interestingly is very erratic. The fact that it diverges so much from the national average seems forboding.

Also other Industries?...

I don't know - I'd have to look. In general mining and timber are considered two of the most dangerous industries though.

What I don't Like in these Situations is how ONE Company is Painted as the Worst of the Worst because and Accident Happened @ their Mine or Facility.

No - it's not actually being painted that way because of this accident, but because of what is behind this accident. I understand where you are coming from in your argument but I don't think this particular incident and company is the right one to use for your point.

Not to mention the Media's Distaste for Coal...

Perhaps that is influencing it but - the media is not responsible for repeated safety violations.

Don't Forget about this Administration's Distaste for Coal...

I don't have Time to Quote Obama on this, but I am Sure someone can in my Absence.

MeThinks his Goal was to Bankrupt the Industry.

Oh right, I forgot the mantra of the day: It's Obama's fault.



peace...[/QUOTE]

 

[jillian]

Truth...

They will Attempt to Finally Destroy this Industry with this Tragedy...

They HATE Coal...

But they are Fucking with the Wrong People if they Intend on Ruining these People and their Labors...

They Should NOT Forget History.

These People aren't to be Triffled with.

I'm just Sayin'.

I may be Denverized, but I Know these People...

They take Jobs Knowing they will see an Early Grave for it, but Justify it by Knowing their Families will be Cared for...

Take it from them, Liberals... I Fucking DARE you.

You will only have yourselves to Blame if you are Successful.



peace...

No... not truth. In fact it's so not truth it's amazing.

Your anger is misdirected. There are certain basic safety precautions that the company was required to have in place. They did a cost-benefit analysis and determined it was cheaper to risk lives.

Your anger should be directed at them because it was they who made life more dangerous for people doing such a dangerous job.

And maybe some people hate coal... but saying it's 'the left' is absurd. And thinking that making the job as safe as it can reasonably be is 'messing with' the miners while giving the company a pass seems masochistic.

It also doesn't matter what the rate of violations was for this company as opposed to any other. If there are others with equal numbers or more of equally serious violations and there hasn't been a tragedy, they've been lucky.

 

[mal]

Truth...

They will Attempt to Finally Destroy this Industry with this Tragedy...

They HATE Coal...

But they are Fucking with the Wrong People if they Intend on Ruining these People and their Labors...

They Should NOT Forget History.

These People aren't to be Triffled with.

I'm just Sayin'.

I may be Denverized, but I Know these People...

They take Jobs Knowing they will see an Early Grave for it, but Justify it by Knowing their Families will be Cared for...

Take it from them, Liberals... I Fucking DARE you.

You will only have yourselves to Blame if you are Successful.



peace...

No... not truth. In fact it's so not truth it's amazing.

Your anger is misdirected. There are certain basic safety precautions that the company was required to have in place. They did a cost-benefit analysis and determined it was cheaper to risk lives.

Your anger should be directed at them because it was they who made life more dangerous for people doing such a dangerous job.

And maybe some people hate coal... but saying it's 'the left' is absurd. And thinking that making the job as safe as it can reasonably be is 'messing with' the miners while giving the company a pass seems masochistic.

It also doesn't matter what the rate of violations was for this company as opposed to any other. If there are others with equal numbers or more of equally serious violations and there hasn't been a tragedy, they've been lucky.

Those who Voted for Barry, if they Knew ANYTHING about this almost Unknown Candidate, it was his Hatred for Coal and his Goal to Bankrupt it.

It's one of the FEW things he was CLEAR on.

As for Safety Regs/Violations...

I Need some More Info...

Was this Incident Related to a Violation?... Is that Factually Concluded?...

Is Massey Worse than ALL others?...

Other Industries?

So far I am Hearing Emotion with little by way of Contextual Facts.



peace...

 

[Coyote]

I'm on the edge of PA anthracite country myself. Almost all the underground mining here is shut down, it's all surface now. But my stepfather is a retired miner, some of my family were Mollies. Either you get it or you don't.

The history and politics of mining and miners is complex, it's not as simple as "Libs this and Cons that". These are tough people who have fought hard for a century and more for their rights and relative safety as well as their livelihoods, and against all manner of vultures corporate and governmental. I'm not sure it shouldn't be moved to a different thread but the policy aspect of this is intertwined with the miners' lives as well as their deaths, and shouldn't be ignored any more than their sacrifices should be.

Maybe it's about time we started valuing these peoples' lives as much as we value what they dig out of the ground.

Well said!

.....stupid system says I got to spread some more rep before giving it to Goldcatt again

 

[editec]

Seacoastonline.com

Well, here it is then...

I am a Coal Miner's Daughter's Son... Williamson... The Billion Dollar Coal Field.

My Family still Works the Argus...

Don Blankenship, the CEO of Massey is Kin from Matewan.

My Grandma was a Blankenship.

These people Live very simple and Hard Lives...

It Touches EVERY Person who's in Mining or Related to it.

Pray for that Community.



peace...

So noted and of course I will.

Matewan, eh?

Great movie. Surely you must have seen it.

I Own one... I Thought it was Called, "Matewan, Bloody Matewan"...

Now I gotta go diggin' in the VHS Boxes...

Have you ever Stumbled back to the Elevated Hotel after a 2AM Breakfast @ Kings Diner in Williamson?...



peace...

Some of mother's family were hard coal miners of NE PA in the late 19th century and early 20th.

It is rumored that some of them were Molly McFlanders, too but I have yet to confirm that, and rather doubt it, too.

Judging from what I remember of those old guys, they seemed like company men to me. I know at least one was managment.

I never ventured into Pennsyltuckey territorywhen I lived there, so I've never been to Williamsport.

I was strictly an East side Keystoner back when I lived there.

Seriously, with NYC and Phila a hour away, and with the mountains on the east side and all the forests in that area, there was no reason anybody on the East side of the state ventured to the West side unless we had a damned good reason to take the drive.

I'm considering moving back there, now.

I sort of miss the Poconos.

 

[Coyote]

Those who Voted for Barry, if they Knew ANYTHING about this almost Unknown Candidate, it was his Hatred for Coal and his Goal to Bankrupt it.

It's one of the FEW things he was CLEAR on.

Do you have any facts (as I recall...you are the one asking for facts...) that Obama's goal is to bankrupt coal?

Obama had nothing to do with this incident, nor with the record of violations Massey has amassed over a decade at this particular mine. I don't know if this reflects Massey's operations over all - I only have the info for this mine.

As for Safety Regs/Violations...

I Need some More Info...

Was this Incident Related to a Violation?... Is that Factually Concluded?...

I believe it is too early to conclude definitively. However - their number of safety violations in comparison to the national norm does not look good. This particular mine and incident ain't the one to pin your hat on in defense of the coal industry.....not when others seem to have much better records.

Is Massey Worse than ALL others?...

Other Industries?

I shall look but - comparing it to other industries is senseless - apples and oranges.

So far I am Hearing Emotion with little by way of Contextual Facts.



peace...

 

[goldcatt]

Some of mother's family were hard coal miners of NE PA in the late 19th century and early 20th.

It is rumored that some of them were Molly McFlanders, too but I have yet to confirm that, and rather doubt it, too.

Judging from what I remember of those old guys, they seemed like company men to me. I know at least one was managment.

I never ventured into Pennsyltuckey territorywhen I lived there, so I've never been to Williamsport.

I was strictly an East side Keystoner back when I lived there.

Seriously, with NYC and Phila a hour away, and with the mountains on the east side and all the forests in that area, there was no reason anybody on the East side of the state ventured to the West side unless we had a damned good reason to take the drive.

I'm considering moving back there, now.

I sort of miss the Poconos.

If you've never been to Williamsport, you're not missing much. Unless you're a big Little League fan, of course.

 

[rdean]

Truth...

They will Attempt to Finally Destroy this Industry with this Tragedy...

They HATE Coal...

But they are Fucking with the Wrong People if they Intend on Ruining these People and their Labors...

They Should NOT Forget History.

These People aren't to be Triffled with.

I'm just Sayin'.

I may be Denverized, but I Know these People...

They take Jobs Knowing they will see an Early Grave for it, but Justify it by Knowing their Families will be Cared for...

Take it from them, Liberals... I Fucking DARE you.

You will only have yourselves to Blame if you are Successful.



peace...

No... not truth. In fact it's so not truth it's amazing.

Your anger is misdirected. There are certain basic safety precautions that the company was required to have in place. They did a cost-benefit analysis and determined it was cheaper to risk lives.

Your anger should be directed at them because it was they who made life more dangerous for people doing such a dangerous job.

And maybe some people hate coal... but saying it's 'the left' is absurd. And thinking that making the job as safe as it can reasonably be is 'messing with' the miners while giving the company a pass seems masochistic.

It also doesn't matter what the rate of violations was for this company as opposed to any other. If there are others with equal numbers or more of equally serious violations and there hasn't been a tragedy, they've been lucky.

Those who Voted for Barry, if they Knew ANYTHING about this almost Unknown Candidate, it was his Hatred for Coal and his Goal to Bankrupt it.

It's one of the FEW things he was CLEAR on.

As for Safety Regs/Violations...

I Need some More Info...

Was this Incident Related to a Violation?... Is that Factually Concluded?...

Is Massey Worse than ALL others?...

Other Industries?

So far I am Hearing Emotion with little by way of Contextual Facts.



peace...

You want more on "safety regulations"?

Start with "Voluntary Compliance".

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04378.pdf

OSHA's voluntary compliance programs

New York Times Covers OSHA Inaction on Diacetyl and Other Hazards The Pump Handle

Earlier in this century, a different administration deregulated many of the most dangerous industries in the name of money. Instead, relying on "Voluntary Compliance". Look it up. Just because the so called "liberal media" refused to report on it, it's all over the internet from reputable sources.

This highlights the ideology difference between the left and the right. The right feels, "People have the responsibility to take care of themselves", the left feels, "Companies who put people in dangerous situations should be responsible for their safety". A huge gulf between ideologies.

Massey subsidiary Aracoma Coal pleaded guilty in 2008 to 10 safety crimes, paid a $2.5 million fine and another $1.7 million for more than 1,300 violations.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-04-06-mine-cited-for-several-safety-violations_N.htm