No One Has a Right to Health Care

[Jantje_Smit]

Right, that's all it would cost them, just a few million.

Why do you think we have such a problem with our healthcare in this country anyway? Do you know what we spend?

The entire problem is that you don't have healthcare, you have insurance care and you're unable to see the difference between the two.

And what makes it so expensive is that people are afraid to go the doctor when they feel sick (because they have to pay) so a common cold that could be cured with a few vitamin pills and some rest turns into pneumonia that has to be treated in a hospital.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Where are they going now? We have record amounts of people renouncing their citizenship because of taxes.

Let me explain something to you: If we could take all the so-called poor people that are dragging our nation down, put them on an island somewhere, they wouldn't be missed by anybody. In fact, it would make the country much stronger. Take every rich person and do the same thing, the country collapses.

Who do you think supports all our spending; all our social programs; our military and government workers? That's right, the rich people. The top 10% of wage earners in this country pay 70% of all federal income taxers. Who would pay that if they left--you???

Why do you guys always only focus on income taxes and forget about payroll taxes?

Also, if you got rid of the poor all your beloved job creators would be in big trouble because they wouldn't have cheap labour for their factories anymore, nobody to pick up their garbage, nobody to serve them drinks in their country clubs etc.

Let me explain something to you: rich people only exist because society lets them exploit poor people and it's time they do something back for society. If that means they can only buy 1 new yacht a year instead of two that's too bad.

No, rich people exist because other people freely and willingly give them their money. You do it, I do it, we all do it.

Why do we focus on income taxes, because payroll taxes only contribute to Social Security and Medicare. That's of course besides your state or city deductions, but those are local deductions. All your goodies come from income tax money.

We don't have cheap labor because of poor Americans, we have cheap labor because DumBama allows all these illegals and legals to come here and keep our wages down. There is no need for those evil rich people to increase wages when they can get foreigners to work for less than Americans would.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Right, that's all it would cost them, just a few million.

Why do you think we have such a problem with our healthcare in this country anyway? Do you know what we spend?

The entire problem is that you don't have healthcare, you have insurance care and you're unable to see the difference between the two.

And what makes it so expensive is that people are afraid to go the doctor when they feel sick (because they have to pay) so a common cold that could be cured with a few vitamin pills and some rest turns into pneumonia that has to be treated in a hospital.

No, what makes it so expensive is that Medicare and Medicaid only pay 2/3 of the bill of their patients and doctors and hospitals have to make that money back somewhere. Malpractice insurance too makes medical care expensive.

And I thought all our woes of medical care were solved by DumBama! No? Well what happened? We were promised the world by the Democrats, and that never happened.

 

[Wilbur Right]

Oh my, did I hurt your feelings by saying if we put welfare people like you on an island, y

Hurt my feelings? LMAO. Thats it dude. An ignorant truck driver has hurt my feelings. Funny shit. And you think I am on welfare. Thats like the ultimate insult you could hurl isnt it?

Like I told your butt buddy conman. I got 10k to bet that says I aint on welfare. You got 10k I can take from you? Or are you just all mouth?

But lets talk about your claim about the devastation caused by 1400 people who leave the country.

You got any proof of the problems this is causing?

Or you just making shit up again.

 

[Wilbur Right]

There is no need for those evil rich people to increase wages when they can get foreigners to work for less than Americans would.

So what we need is to kick all those illegal and legal immigrants out of the country and automatically that job that was being done for 9 bucks an hour is all of a sudden worth what ray? 10? 12? What is the number that hourly wages would go up when all those immigrants are gone?

And why is it Obamas fault that American employers hire illegals and pay them cheaply. I missed you explaining how Obama makes them do that.

Or course you know what will happen ray, Its a claim you make all the time;
You force American job creators to pay an artifically high pay rate because all the illegals are gone, they will just pick up their companies and move them to China or Mexico or where ever.

I thought you firmly believed that ******* with any of the riches money would cause them to leave the country.

Is that not correct? Making them pay Americans higher wages is like increasing their taxes ray. And you hate that idea. Remember?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Oh my, did I hurt your feelings by saying if we put welfare people like you on an island, y

Hurt my feelings? LMAO. Thats it dude. An ignorant truck driver has hurt my feelings. Funny shit. And you think I am on welfare. Thats like the ultimate insult you could hurl isnt it?

Like I told your butt buddy conman. I got 10k to bet that says I aint on welfare. You got 10k I can take from you? Or are you just all mouth?

But lets talk about your claim about the devastation caused by 1400 people who leave the country.

You got any proof of the problems this is causing?

Or you just making shit up again.

Yah, you have 10K to bet.

I know one thing for sure, and that is you don't have a lot of money wherever you get it from. Your comprehension skills are less than a junior high student and you certainly can't have a job that requires any real education.

 

[Jantje_Smit]

No, rich people exist because other people freely and willingly give them their money. You do it, I do it, we all do it.

Freely? Willingly? Remember the too big to fail banks bailout, when $trillions were handed over so the crimininals wouldn't miss any bonusses?

Or when BP and Exxon caused environmental disasters and only got a small fine so taxpayers could pay the bill. Or when Halliburton screwed your troops in Iraq but still got $billions in contracts or......

Well, maybe you're right, the public lets them get away with it after all..

Why do we focus on income taxes, because payroll taxes only contribute to Social Security and Medicare. That's of course besides your state or city deductions, but those are local deductions. All your goodies come from income tax money.

Funny, payroll taxes pay for social security and medicare but somehow that's still "free stuff" according to your logic. And since there's no social security lockbox the distinction between payroll and income taxes is useless, taxes are taxes and there's no reason why Mitt Romney and his buddies should pay less % than people who actually work for a living.

We don't have cheap labor because of poor Americans, we have cheap labor because DumBama allows all these illegals and legals to come here and keep our wages down. There is no need for those evil rich people to increase wages when they can get foreigners to work for less than Americans would.

Just one question, who do you think actually hires all those illegals? Could it possibly all those rich people you love so much?

 

[Wilbur Right]

ah, you have 10K to bet.

I know one thing for sure, and that is you don't have a lot of money wherever you get it from. Your comprehension

Yep ray I got 10k. The question is do you have it? And do you want to bet it?


And ray, you dont know anything for sure about someone posting on a message board.

can't have a job that requires any real education

So you think I have a lack of education LMAO. This coming from a truck driver,.
How many degrees does it take to drive a truck? You work in a field where illegals who can barely speak English can drive a truck. And you think you are part of an educated work force eh?
For you driving a truck is rocket science isnt it ray?
Funny shit ray.

 

[Jantje_Smit]

No, what makes it so expensive is that Medicare and Medicaid only pay 2/3 of the bill of their patients and doctors and hospitals have to make that money back somewhere. Malpractice insurance too makes medical care expensive.

See, it's that insurance thingy again. Malpractice insurance doesn't seem to be much of an issue in countries with universal healthcare.

And I thought all our woes of medical care were solved by DumBama! No? Well what happened? We were promised the world by the Democrats, and that never happened.

If you somehow think that I'm a democrat and Obama supporter let me correct that, Obama is a lying, corrupt, warmongering hypocrite who sold out to the insurance industry without a problem supported by the rest of the equally corrupt democratic party.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, what makes it so expensive is that Medicare and Medicaid only pay 2/3 of the bill of their patients and doctors and hospitals have to make that money back somewhere. Malpractice insurance too makes medical care expensive.

See, it's that insurance thingy again. Malpractice insurance doesn't seem to be much of an issue in countries with universal healthcare.

And I thought all our woes of medical care were solved by DumBama! No? Well what happened? We were promised the world by the Democrats, and that never happened.

If you somehow think that I'm a democrat and Obama supporter let me correct that, Obama is a lying, corrupt, warmongering hypocrite who sold out to the insurance industry without a problem supported by the rest of the equally corrupt democratic party.

See, it's that insurance thingy again. Malpractice insurance doesn't seem to be much of an issue in countries with universal healthcare.

Those countries don't have the lawsuits we have here. Mind you not many are successful, but litigation is almost just as expensive. This is why you see companies (like in the Trayvon Martin case) just settle out of court to make it go away whether there is guilt or not. It's cheaper than fighting.

Of course we could solve that problem with one law; the same law they have in parts of Europe: Loser pays all. That's right, if you file a phony lawsuit and lose, you are responsible for all fees and costs associated with the person or entity you tried to sue. It would greatly reduce malpractice and all lawsuits unless it was an open and shut case.

But as we know, trial lawyers are big donors to the Democrat party come election time, so we will never see a law like that in the US.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

ah, you have 10K to bet.

I know one thing for sure, and that is you don't have a lot of money wherever you get it from. Your comprehension

Yep ray I got 10k. The question is do you have it? And do you want to bet it?


And ray, you dont know anything for sure about someone posting on a message board.

can't have a job that requires any real education

So you think I have a lack of education LMAO. This coming from a truck driver,.
How many degrees does it take to drive a truck? You work in a field where illegals who can barely speak English can drive a truck. And you think you are part of an educated work force eh?
For you driving a truck is rocket science isnt it ray?
Funny shit ray.

Sure I can tell how smart you are by your posts. You write like a 12 year old. And you know damn well nobody is going to bet you 10K on the internet unless it's somebody you personally know. That's the only reason you would bet money you don't have.

 

[beagle9]

I think we should all have the right to a "BRAND NEW CAR!" to get us to our free doctors.

This kinda of speak might work on the mentality of your associates be it here or there, but people are smarter than you think they are, and they know how to desern between the issues more than you give them credit for, and especially when wrote your little post here.

 

[ZackB]

Even prior to the ACA nobody was denied access to healthcare. If you walked into a publicly funded hospital with a stab wound or drug overdose they were required to take care of you.

If you walked in with cancer and needed treatment, they may or may not treat you. Hospitals only have to stabilize the person. They do not have to offer full treatment if the person is not capable of making payment. What I find a bit odd is that conservatives are against forcing people to buy health insurance, but they seem to have no problem with the idea, as false as it is, that hospitals must treat patients who cannot pay? How is that based on a free market economy? If you can't pay, the hospital should be able to tell you to go home and die if you truly believe in free markets without regulation.

You are factually incorrect. I have a family member who had cancer and needed surgery. It was planned - surgery was scheduled 2-3 months after diagnosis. She had no insurance no means to pay. The surgery ended up costing her nearly $100k. I know this because I helped her negotiate and settle the bills. On the morning of the surgery I gave the hospital $1,000.00. She had the surgery. This was pre-ACA.

I have worked through the process, and I do not make factual assertions unless I know them to be true, unlike 95% of you here.

 

[Wilbur Right]

. And you know damn well nobody is going to bet you 10K on the internet unless it's somebody you personally know. That's the only reason you would bet money you don't have.

Dude it is easy to arrange a bet on the internet. All you got to do is use an intermediary (look it up you dont know what that is). Attorneys would work fine.

Put up or shut the **** up talking about shit you know nothing of.

Youre to much the ***** to back up what you claimed arent ya?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, rich people exist because other people freely and willingly give them their money. You do it, I do it, we all do it.

Freely? Willingly? Remember the too big to fail banks bailout, when $trillions were handed over so the crimininals wouldn't miss any bonusses?

Or when BP and Exxon caused environmental disasters and only got a small fine so taxpayers could pay the bill. Or when Halliburton screwed your troops in Iraq but still got $billions in contracts or......

Well, maybe you're right, the public lets them get away with it after all..

Why do we focus on income taxes, because payroll taxes only contribute to Social Security and Medicare. That's of course besides your state or city deductions, but those are local deductions. All your goodies come from income tax money.

Funny, payroll taxes pay for social security and medicare but somehow that's still "free stuff" according to your logic. And since there's no social security lockbox the distinction between payroll and income taxes is useless, taxes are taxes and there's no reason why Mitt Romney and his buddies should pay less % than people who actually work for a living.

We don't have cheap labor because of poor Americans, we have cheap labor because DumBama allows all these illegals and legals to come here and keep our wages down. There is no need for those evil rich people to increase wages when they can get foreigners to work for less than Americans would.

Just one question, who do you think actually hires all those illegals? Could it possibly all those rich people you love so much?

Sure, they are at fault, but you can't hire illegals unless they are here to hire in the first place.

We have liberal states and cities treating these people like they are welcomed guests. Illegals get credit cards, drivers licenses, houses and education. The Democrats in the Senate held up Kates' law so it never becomes part of the solution. Kate's law would imprison illegal felons who came back to this country after getting kicked out. It would allow us to put them in prison for a minimum of five years.

Income is taxed based on the way you make it. Nearly half of working Americans pay no income tax at all. Capital gains taxes are low because it encourages investments. People like Romney make their money in the stock market and things like that. If you own a home and sell it at a profit, you pay no capital gains taxes if it's the first time you sold a home. Houses you sell after the first one are held to capital gains taxation.

 

[Jantje_Smit]

...But as we know, trial lawyers are big donors to the Democrat party come election time, so we will never see a law like that in the US.

As I've said before, you'll never get anything done unless you get rid of the corporate party....

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Even prior to the ACA nobody was denied access to healthcare. If you walked into a publicly funded hospital with a stab wound or drug overdose they were required to take care of you.

If you walked in with cancer and needed treatment, they may or may not treat you. Hospitals only have to stabilize the person. They do not have to offer full treatment if the person is not capable of making payment. What I find a bit odd is that conservatives are against forcing people to buy health insurance, but they seem to have no problem with the idea, as false as it is, that hospitals must treat patients who cannot pay? How is that based on a free market economy? If you can't pay, the hospital should be able to tell you to go home and die if you truly believe in free markets without regulation.

You are factually incorrect. I have a family member who had cancer and needed surgery. It was planned - surgery was scheduled 2-3 months after diagnosis. She had no insurance no means to pay. The surgery ended up costing her nearly $100k. I know this because I helped her negotiate and settle the bills. On the morning of the surgery I gave the hospital $1,000.00. She had the surgery. This was pre-ACA.

I have worked through the process, and I do not make factual assertions unless I know them to be true, unlike 95% of you here.

Same thing with my late neighbor. She developed lung cancer and also had no insurance. She didn't make much money so she opted for cash instead of her work insurance program.

They took good care of her and even provided transportation to and from the hospital for chemo treatments. Unfortunately, she didn't make it. She died a little over two years ago. But she willed her house to her son and nobody ever tried to take it from him or her.

 

[beagle9]

always better to have the free market produce the best health care in the word then have the government steal all of the work and investment of those companies.
Of course you see nothing wrong with this

US healthcare is a joke in the first world....most European countries, Canada and Aust/NZ have much better and fairer systems. A capitalistic health care system is doomed to fail and only helps the elite....You need a mixture of both socialist and capitalist.

We have the best healthcare in the world. Our problem is finding a way to pay for it. As time went on, it became unaffordable, and government contributed greatly to that problem. So what should we do? Have the entity that caused the problem run it.

Take the style of government that ruined it out of office, replace it with one that can fix it, then proceed to fix it by taking over the insurance industry, issue the citizens a federal medical healthcare card to be honored in all places used that provide legit medical services, and keep doctors, clinics and hospitals in the free market system in order to spur innovation and creativity in those institutions or places. Turn the current insurance corps into fraud detection agencies and patient accounts management offices for all citizens insured by the government. Have the dues taken out in taxes in which would be drawn out of every citizens income in which draws an income in the nation. Even prisoners who are in prison would have their fee drawn out of their work pay while in prison. It's a huge win for citizens because in a pool that large, and even with administrative cost figured, the deduction shouldn't be no more than say $8.00 dollars a week for dental and full healthcare services.

 

[beagle9]

Even prior to the ACA nobody was denied access to healthcare. If you walked into a publicly funded hospital with a stab wound or drug overdose they were required to take care of you.

If you walked in with cancer and needed treatment, they may or may not treat you. Hospitals only have to stabilize the person. They do not have to offer full treatment if the person is not capable of making payment. What I find a bit odd is that conservatives are against forcing people to buy health insurance, but they seem to have no problem with the idea, as false as it is, that hospitals must treat patients who cannot pay? How is that based on a free market economy? If you can't pay, the hospital should be able to tell you to go home and die if you truly believe in free markets without regulation.

You are factually incorrect. I have a family member who had cancer and needed surgery. It was planned - surgery was scheduled 2-3 months after diagnosis. She had no insurance no means to pay. The surgery ended up costing her nearly $100k. I know this because I helped her negotiate and settle the bills. On the morning of the surgery I gave the hospital $1,000.00. She had the surgery. This was pre-ACA.

I have worked through the process, and I do not make factual assertions unless I know them to be true, unlike 95% of you here.

Same thing with my late neighbor. She developed lung cancer and also had no insurance. She didn't make much money so she opted for cash instead of her work insurance program.

They took good care of her and even provided transportation to and from the hospital for chemo treatments. Unfortunately, she didn't make it. She died a little over two years ago. But she willed her house to her son and nobody ever tried to take it from him or her.

...But as we know, trial lawyers are big donors to the Democrat party come election time, so we will never see a law like that in the US.

As I've said before, you'll never get anything done unless you get rid of the corporate party....

. And the immoral party in which has the democrats name written all over it as well... No wait lets not fool ourselves by all this party verses party crap... How about just getting the bad out of both parties ? I mean it's not hard to know who that bad is, because it is the one trying to lead the parties off a cliff.

 

[Wilbur Right]

If you own a home and sell it at a profit, you pay no capital gains taxes if it's the first time you sold a home. Houses you sell after the first one are held to capital gains taxation.

You are full of shit dude. And yet claim to be educated. Educated at what?

Look up the Tax Payer Relief Act of 1997. Then read about the Housing Assistance Act of 2008.

Try to really educate yourself about something.

Because your ideas of the cap gains tax benefits for owner occupied homes is wrong.

Where did you get your education? A message board?