No Evidence

[Wuwei]

If the cans are not touching, they exchange heat by radiation.

Shot yourself in the foot again. The text you cited says two objects exchange heat by radiation. Radiation exchange is what we have been telling you for a long time. Now you are quoting sources that don't agree with you. Go figure. You are sad case of contradiction.

 

[Wuwei]

So now you are contesting the second law of thermodynamics and the SB law.

Nope. You are the one who doesn't understand radiation exchange.

As I showed you in post 1014...heat is nothing more than photons moving from one place to another...where radiation is concerned....it is all just photons moving from one place to another...you have no energy flow by radiation that is not photons....if you believe in photons that is.

I said the three forms of the SLoT do not forbid 2-way radiation exchange.

Nobody is disagreeing that radiation exchange is "all just photons moving from one place to another". That is what we have been telling you! Photons move everywhere. A photon can only stop or change direction when it hits matter. (In practical earthly cases.)

.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If the cans are not touching, they exchange heat by radiation.

Shot yourself in the foot again. The text you cited says two objects exchange heat by radiation. Radiation exchange is what we have been telling you for a long time. Now you are quoting sources that don't agree with you. Go figure. You are sad case of contradiction.

The text you cited says two objects exchange heat by radiation.

Come on, you know exchange means one-way flow in the SSDD dictionary.

 

[Wuwei]

Come on, you know exchange means one-way flow in the SSDD dictionary.

For some reason the server of this site posted my comment twice several minutes apart. The server must be trying to get through to SSDD, that he is full of self made contradictions.

 

[IanC]

So you agree with the Clausius statement...heat cannot spontaneously flow from a cold system to a hot system without external work being performed on the system? You agree with that statement? After all, you provided it.

Yep.

And heat is energy?

Yep. But photons aren't heat, so they can go anywhere as long as thermal energy caused by photon absorption doesn't violate Clausius's statement. He talks about heat flow, not photon flow.

Are photons energy? Heat is just what we call photons as they move from place to place.

When the matter is heated does the photon absorbed by electrons of atoms or by atoms themself?
In heat transfer by radiation, photons do carry the energy.

https://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/p670/textbook/Chap_5.pdf
If the cans of OJ are touching in the insulated chest, they exchange heat primarily by conduction. If the cans are not touching, they exchange heat by radiation. When objects exchange heat via thermal radiation, they do so by an exchange of energy from radiated photons (electromagnetic radiation).

Here is an easy one...pretty pictures of ducks...

Physics for Kids: Photons and Light
Photons behave like particles in that they can interact with matter. In some cases the energy of the photon is absorbed by the matter. In this case the extra energy may be emitted as heat.

And on and on and on....it is well known that heat is the movement of energy from one place to another...when that energy is moving in the form of radiation...it is photons moving from a warm area to a cool area...heat, in the case of radiation..is photons.

Strange that you would not know this...

So how about that..you agree that energy can not move spontaneously from cool to warm...glad we finally got that hammered out.

Hahahahaha. From SSDDs link-
"
explain how energy is transferred between objects by radiation. The
hotter an object is, the more energy it radiates. A cold object in the vicinity of a hot
object also will radiate. But the hot object will radiate more energy than the colder
object, with the net result that more energy is lost to the cold object by the hot object
than by the cold object to the hot object. The average energy of the molecules of the
cold object will increase, while the average energy of the molecules of the hot object will decrease.
"

Sounds exactly like what myself and others have been saying to SSDD for almost ten years.

And it directly contradicts what SSDD has been claiming.

When will he learn?

 

[SSDD]

If the cans are not touching, they exchange heat by radiation.

Shot yourself in the foot again. The text you cited says two objects exchange heat by radiation. Radiation exchange is what we have been telling you for a long time. Now you are quoting sources that don't agree with you. Go figure. You are sad case of contradiction.

You think that changes the second law of thermodynamics...I used it merely to demonstrate to you that heat is energy is photons...The second law still says that energy will not flow spontaneously from a cool object to a warm object....you think the fact that they used the word exchanged alters the second law of thermodynamics....

never mind...in your mind, I am sure that is exactly what you think.

 

[SSDD]

So now you are contesting the second law of thermodynamics and the SB law.

Nope. You are the one who doesn't understand radiation exchange.

As I showed you in post 1014...heat is nothing more than photons moving from one place to another...where radiation is concerned....it is all just photons moving from one place to another...you have no energy flow by radiation that is not photons....if you believe in photons that is.

I said the three forms of the SLoT do not forbid 2-way radiation exchange.

Nobody is disagreeing that radiation exchange is "all just photons moving from one place to another". That is what we have been telling you! Photons move everywhere. A photon can only stop or change direction when it hits matter. (In practical earthly cases.)

.

The second law of thermodynamics doesn't say anything about radiation exchange...it only says that energy moves spontaneously in one direction and that heat will not move spontaneously from a cool object to a warm object...

All 3 forms say the same thing...energy moves in one direction...

The fact that you claim there is exchange when the second law states pretty explicitly that there isn't is your problem, not mine...

 

[SSDD]

So you agree with the Clausius statement...heat cannot spontaneously flow from a cold system to a hot system without external work being performed on the system? You agree with that statement? After all, you provided it.

Yep.

And heat is energy?

Yep. But photons aren't heat, so they can go anywhere as long as thermal energy caused by photon absorption doesn't violate Clausius's statement. He talks about heat flow, not photon flow.

Are photons energy? Heat is just what we call photons as they move from place to place.

When the matter is heated does the photon absorbed by electrons of atoms or by atoms themself?
In heat transfer by radiation, photons do carry the energy.

https://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/p670/textbook/Chap_5.pdf
If the cans of OJ are touching in the insulated chest, they exchange heat primarily by conduction. If the cans are not touching, they exchange heat by radiation. When objects exchange heat via thermal radiation, they do so by an exchange of energy from radiated photons (electromagnetic radiation).

Here is an easy one...pretty pictures of ducks...

Physics for Kids: Photons and Light
Photons behave like particles in that they can interact with matter. In some cases the energy of the photon is absorbed by the matter. In this case the extra energy may be emitted as heat.

And on and on and on....it is well known that heat is the movement of energy from one place to another...when that energy is moving in the form of radiation...it is photons moving from a warm area to a cool area...heat, in the case of radiation..is photons.

Strange that you would not know this...

So how about that..you agree that energy can not move spontaneously from cool to warm...glad we finally got that hammered out.

Hahahahaha. From SSDDs link-
"
explain how energy is transferred between objects by radiation. The
hotter an object is, the more energy it radiates. A cold object in the vicinity of a hot
object also will radiate. But the hot object will radiate more energy than the colder
object, with the net result that more energy is lost to the cold object by the hot object
than by the cold object to the hot object. The average energy of the molecules of the
cold object will increase, while the average energy of the molecules of the hot object will decrease.
"

Sounds exactly like what myself and others have been saying to SSDD for almost ten years.

And it directly contradicts what SSDD has been claiming.

When will he learn?

Actually, I only used it to demonstrate to wuwei that heat is, in fact the movement of photons...

Let me guess...you think that the fact that they used the word exchange also alters the second law of thermodynamics...

Second Law of Thermodynamics: It is not possible for heat o flow from a colder body to a warmer body without any work having been done to accomplish this flow. Energy will not flow spontaneously from a low temperature object to a higher temperature object.

Do let me know when they rewrite the second law to reflect your beliefs....

 

[Wuwei]

I used it merely to demonstrate to you that heat is energy is photons.

That sentence has two verbs. However a photon has energy. A hot object has thermal energy. But a photon is not thermal energy.

The second law still says that energy will not flow spontaneously from a cool object to a warm object....you think the fact that they used the word exchanged alters the second law of thermodynamics....

never mind...in your mind, I am sure that is exactly what you think.

Everybody knows radiation exchange is just that - exchange. I quoted the Clausius and Kelvin-Planck statements of the second law. Neither of those says that energy flows one way. They do mention or imply one way flow of heat. Their laws involves heat.

 

[Wuwei]

The second law of thermodynamics doesn't say anything about radiation exchange...it only says that energy moves spontaneously in one direction and that heat will not move spontaneously from a cool object to a warm object...

All 3 forms say the same thing...energy moves in one direction.

Nope. Read it again. The laws never energy moves in one direction. You are confusing the words heat and energy. Heat = energy. Radiation = energy. Radiation ≠ heat.

 

[Wuwei]

Energy will not flow spontaneously from a low temperature object to a higher temperature object.

Do let me know when they rewrite the second law to reflect your beliefs....

They rewrote the second law when they later defined entropy. That says nothing about spontaneous energy flow.

 

[SSDD]

I used it merely to demonstrate to you that heat is energy is photons.

That sentence has two verbs. However a photon has energy. A hot object has thermal energy. But a photon is not thermal energy.

As the multiple sources I provided stated...heat is the movement of photons from one place to another...

Everybody knows radiation exchange is just that - exchange. I quoted the Clausius and Kelvin-Planck statements of the second law. Neither of those says that energy flows one way. They do mention or imply one way flow of heat. Their laws involves heat.

Everybody should know that the second law states that energy only moves spontaneously in one direction...Both Clausius and Kelvin-Planck state that energy only moves in one direction...but do feel free to prove me wrong...lets see a two way Planck equation..

 

[SSDD]

The second law of thermodynamics doesn't say anything about radiation exchange...it only says that energy moves spontaneously in one direction and that heat will not move spontaneously from a cool object to a warm object...

All 3 forms say the same thing...energy moves in one direction.

Nope. Read it again. The laws never energy moves in one direction. You are confusing the words heat and energy. Heat = energy. Radiation = energy. Radiation ≠ heat.

Ahhhhh..I get it.. You don't know what heat is.. I already provided the answer for you, but the answer puts you in opposition with your beliefs so therefore you can't accept it, no matter how many times it is provided for you...

 

[SSDD]

Energy will not flow spontaneously from a low temperature object to a higher temperature object.

Do let me know when they rewrite the second law to reflect your beliefs....

They rewrote the second law when they later defined entropy. That says nothing about spontaneous energy flow.

Who is "they" and do provide a link to the paper describing the rewriting of the second law of thermodynamics...that would certainly be top shelf news in multiple scientific fields...

We both know no such paper will be forthcoming as you have been reduced to just making shit up in an attempt to defend your religious beliefs.

 

[IanC]

"


The second law of thermodynamics states that the total entropy of an isolated system can never decrease over time. ... Historically, the second law was an empirical finding that was accepted as an axiom of thermodynamic theory. Statistical mechanics, classical or quantum, explains the microscopic origin of the law.

"

 

[Crick]

It might be my Hosts file, but I cannot get to your attached files.

 

[Wuwei]

As the multiple sources I provided stated...heat is the movement of photons from one place to another.

Show me your multiple sources.

Everybody should know that the second law states that energy only moves spontaneously in one direction...Both Clausius and Kelvin-Planck state that energy only moves in one direction...but do feel free to prove me wrong...lets see a two way Planck equation..

Nope. Everybody should not know what you think. Clausius and Kelvin-Planck stated heat moves in one direction. "Energy" is much broader term than heat.

 

[Wuwei]

Ahhhhh..I get it.. You don't know what heat is.. I already provided the answer for you, but the answer puts you in opposition with your beliefs so therefore you can't accept it, no matter how many times it is provided for you...

You didn't provide any answers to anything. Your fizzics is not accepted by science.

 

[Wuwei]

Who is "they" and do provide a link to the paper describing the rewriting of the second law of thermodynamics...that would certainly be top shelf news in multiple scientific fields...

We both know no such paper will be forthcoming as you have been reduced to just making shit up in an attempt to defend your religious beliefs.

"They" are Clausius and later Boltzmann who rewrote the second law 150 years ago. Here is the history:

Carnot in 1824 (Engines)
Lord Kelvin 1851
Rudolf Clausius In 1856 (Refrigeration)
Clausius in 1865 defined entropy and concluded it tends to a maximum
1872 Boltzmann developed a proof of the entropy principle with the use of statistical mechanics and showed entropy is not a mere postulate like the earlier forms of the second law.

Entropy subsumes all earlier definitions of the second law. That is the rewrite you must abide by. It does not mention one way photons. You have no basis.




.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

As the multiple sources I provided stated...heat is the movement of photons from one place to another.

Show me your multiple sources.

Everybody should know that the second law states that energy only moves spontaneously in one direction...Both Clausius and Kelvin-Planck state that energy only moves in one direction...but do feel free to prove me wrong...lets see a two way Planck equation..

Nope. Everybody should not know what you think. Clausius and Kelvin-Planck stated heat moves in one direction. "Energy" is much broader term than heat.

Show me your multiple sources.

You want him to provide more sources that refute his own claims?