No Apology but Good Thinking

[Divine Wind]

Okay. So I vote no, we don't need to apologize. And Obama DIDN'T.

I never said he did and I wasn't referring to Obama's visit to Japan, but to comments on this forum plus similar ones by, usually LWer and anti-America bashers, whenever the subject comes up.

 

[Divine Wind]

Yes. Eventually they will need to expand. We've known that for a very long time. Unkotare should start offering lessons in Mandarin here.

One, they don't "need" to expand, but they certainly want to do so.

Two, Unkotare claims to be Irish.

 

[Iceweasel]

But it sounds to me that many of the contributors to this thread are not so much learning from the War as still defending it. Still fighting it, if you will. The blame game is not what history is supposed to teach us. My Dad fought, many of my relatives in his generation and many of our friends fought. I have no problem whatsoever with declaring war on Japan or even dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If anyone asked for it, they did. But I would hate like hell to think we are going to get involved in another war involving nukes. It requires a pretty radical pivot to move away from that "Let's invade and kick the shit out of 'em" mentality we continue to automatically turn to when confronted with hostile actions by another country.

You are a liberal. Disagreeing with you IS war. People like you say we were wrong, when people like me say bullshit, it needed to be done considering the circumstances you say we are the ones fighting. Grow up.

People like you say we were wrong,
Once again you are deliberately misconstruing my message so you can continue your illogical hate campaign. Not a surprise from this quarter.

You are 24 cents short of a quarter. You said:
"And we have been killing each other since we figured out how with sticks and stones. Obama knows peace is an ideal, not a goal for 2030, but if we don't at least try to figure out ways to live in peace, we're probably doomed."

You very definitely are making the US at least as culpable. Just a bunch of people killing each other. We were ATTACKED. Responding is self defense. We live in peace when we kill the assholes that attack us. That works individually as well.

 

[Iceweasel]

...NO ONE comes out of a war like that smelling like a rose. They did wrong. We did wrong. The Nazis did wrong. It's over. Our president's point is, how do we prevent it from happening again? Not by continuing to point fingers at one another and continue the ill will.

While there are a lot of truisms in what you say, the fact remains we need to follow George Santayana's maxim:
'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'

Many people forget that WWII was hugely costly in terms of blood and treasure. The US was not only going broke, but in a mere 3.5 years of fighting had lost over 400,000 killed and over 670,000 wounded. Ending the war as quickly as possible using the most certain actions was a major duty of our leaders. Guessing about what the Japanese may or may not do would cost lives every day we dilly-dallied.

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: World-Wide Deaths

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: US Military

But it sounds to me that many of the contributors to this thread are not so much learning from the War as still defending it. Still fighting it, if you will. The blame game is not what history is supposed to teach us. My Dad fought, many of my relatives in his generation and many of our friends fought. I have no problem whatsoever with declaring war on Japan or even dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If anyone asked for it, they did. But I would hate like hell to think we are going to get involved in another war involving nukes. It requires a pretty radical pivot to move away from that "Let's invade and kick the shit out of 'em" mentality we continue to automatically turn to when confronted with hostile actions by another country.

We may not have a choice. Note the aggression displayed by China, Iran, and Russia. Or do you plan to sit still and let them have their way with the world?

I watched a documentary this morning on the US vs China. Whole lot I didn't know. They are gearing up to take over.

Yes. Eventually they will need to expand. We've known that for a very long time. Unkotare should start offering lessons in Mandarin here.

Explain that. Why do they need to take over Taiwan for example?

 

[OldLady]

...NO ONE comes out of a war like that smelling like a rose. They did wrong. We did wrong. The Nazis did wrong. It's over. Our president's point is, how do we prevent it from happening again? Not by continuing to point fingers at one another and continue the ill will.

While there are a lot of truisms in what you say, the fact remains we need to follow George Santayana's maxim:
'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'

Many people forget that WWII was hugely costly in terms of blood and treasure. The US was not only going broke, but in a mere 3.5 years of fighting had lost over 400,000 killed and over 670,000 wounded. Ending the war as quickly as possible using the most certain actions was a major duty of our leaders. Guessing about what the Japanese may or may not do would cost lives every day we dilly-dallied.

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: World-Wide Deaths

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: US Military

But it sounds to me that many of the contributors to this thread are not so much learning from the War as still defending it. Still fighting it, if you will. The blame game is not what history is supposed to teach us. My Dad fought, many of my relatives in his generation and many of our friends fought. I have no problem whatsoever with declaring war on Japan or even dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If anyone asked for it, they did. But I would hate like hell to think we are going to get involved in another war involving nukes. It requires a pretty radical pivot to move away from that "Let's invade and kick the shit out of 'em" mentality we continue to automatically turn to when confronted with hostile actions by another country.

We may not have a choice. Note the aggression displayed by China, Iran, and Russia. Or do you plan to sit still and let them have their way with the world?

Of course not. I don't believe that any of those countries at this point is doing anymore than pissing on the trees at the edge of their territory, however, and defending its self interests. If you look at the graph in #268 posted by Divine Wind, the planet is losing less lives to war now than in any time since WWII ended. The media and the internet is bringing home and sensationalizing every act of violence to us in ways that were not possible 70 years ago. So it seems like we are in the most violent and chaotic times in history. But history may look back at this era and call it a Golden Age of Peace.

 

[OldLady]

But it sounds to me that many of the contributors to this thread are not so much learning from the War as still defending it. Still fighting it, if you will. The blame game is not what history is supposed to teach us. My Dad fought, many of my relatives in his generation and many of our friends fought. I have no problem whatsoever with declaring war on Japan or even dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If anyone asked for it, they did. But I would hate like hell to think we are going to get involved in another war involving nukes. It requires a pretty radical pivot to move away from that "Let's invade and kick the shit out of 'em" mentality we continue to automatically turn to when confronted with hostile actions by another country.

You are a liberal. Disagreeing with you IS war. People like you say we were wrong, when people like me say bullshit, it needed to be done considering the circumstances you say we are the ones fighting. Grow up.

People like you say we were wrong,
Once again you are deliberately misconstruing my message so you can continue your illogical hate campaign. Not a surprise from this quarter.

You are 24 cents short of a quarter. You said:
"And we have been killing each other since we figured out how with sticks and stones. Obama knows peace is an ideal, not a goal for 2030, but if we don't at least try to figure out ways to live in peace, we're probably doomed."

You very definitely are making the US at least as culpable. Just a bunch of people killing each other. We were ATTACKED. Responding is self defense. We live in peace when we kill the assholes that attack us. That works individually as well.

I never attacked you, asshole. I throw a much larger shadow in your mind than is warranted.

 

[OldLady]

While there are a lot of truisms in what you say, the fact remains we need to follow George Santayana's maxim:
'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'

Many people forget that WWII was hugely costly in terms of blood and treasure. The US was not only going broke, but in a mere 3.5 years of fighting had lost over 400,000 killed and over 670,000 wounded. Ending the war as quickly as possible using the most certain actions was a major duty of our leaders. Guessing about what the Japanese may or may not do would cost lives every day we dilly-dallied.

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: World-Wide Deaths

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: US Military

But it sounds to me that many of the contributors to this thread are not so much learning from the War as still defending it. Still fighting it, if you will. The blame game is not what history is supposed to teach us. My Dad fought, many of my relatives in his generation and many of our friends fought. I have no problem whatsoever with declaring war on Japan or even dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If anyone asked for it, they did. But I would hate like hell to think we are going to get involved in another war involving nukes. It requires a pretty radical pivot to move away from that "Let's invade and kick the shit out of 'em" mentality we continue to automatically turn to when confronted with hostile actions by another country.

We may not have a choice. Note the aggression displayed by China, Iran, and Russia. Or do you plan to sit still and let them have their way with the world?

I watched a documentary this morning on the US vs China. Whole lot I didn't know. They are gearing up to take over.

Yes. Eventually they will need to expand. We've known that for a very long time. Unkotare should start offering lessons in Mandarin here.

Explain that. Why do they need to take over Taiwan for example?

You heard the documentary. Why do they?

 

[Iceweasel]

But it sounds to me that many of the contributors to this thread are not so much learning from the War as still defending it. Still fighting it, if you will. The blame game is not what history is supposed to teach us. My Dad fought, many of my relatives in his generation and many of our friends fought. I have no problem whatsoever with declaring war on Japan or even dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If anyone asked for it, they did. But I would hate like hell to think we are going to get involved in another war involving nukes. It requires a pretty radical pivot to move away from that "Let's invade and kick the shit out of 'em" mentality we continue to automatically turn to when confronted with hostile actions by another country.

You are a liberal. Disagreeing with you IS war. People like you say we were wrong, when people like me say bullshit, it needed to be done considering the circumstances you say we are the ones fighting. Grow up.

People like you say we were wrong,
Once again you are deliberately misconstruing my message so you can continue your illogical hate campaign. Not a surprise from this quarter.

You are 24 cents short of a quarter. You said:
"And we have been killing each other since we figured out how with sticks and stones. Obama knows peace is an ideal, not a goal for 2030, but if we don't at least try to figure out ways to live in peace, we're probably doomed."

You very definitely are making the US at least as culpable. Just a bunch of people killing each other. We were ATTACKED. Responding is self defense. We live in peace when we kill the assholes that attack us. That works individually as well.

I never attacked you, asshole. I throw a much larger shadow in your mind than is warranted.

I didn't say you attacked me. Learn how to read. The shadow is between your ears.

 

[Iceweasel]

But it sounds to me that many of the contributors to this thread are not so much learning from the War as still defending it. Still fighting it, if you will. The blame game is not what history is supposed to teach us. My Dad fought, many of my relatives in his generation and many of our friends fought. I have no problem whatsoever with declaring war on Japan or even dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If anyone asked for it, they did. But I would hate like hell to think we are going to get involved in another war involving nukes. It requires a pretty radical pivot to move away from that "Let's invade and kick the shit out of 'em" mentality we continue to automatically turn to when confronted with hostile actions by another country.

We may not have a choice. Note the aggression displayed by China, Iran, and Russia. Or do you plan to sit still and let them have their way with the world?

I watched a documentary this morning on the US vs China. Whole lot I didn't know. They are gearing up to take over.

Yes. Eventually they will need to expand. We've known that for a very long time. Unkotare should start offering lessons in Mandarin here.

Explain that. Why do they need to take over Taiwan for example?

You heard the documentary. Why do they?

English please. I realize you can't answer the simple question and want to delve off into some tangent.

 

[Unkotare]

Yes. Eventually they will need to expand. We've known that for a very long time. Unkotare should start offering lessons in Mandarin here.

One, they don't "need" to expand, but they certainly want to do so.

Two, Unkotare claims to be Irish.

I'm AMERICAN, and my Mandarin has gotten pretty bad over the years.

 

[Unkotare]

While there are a lot of truisms in what you say, the fact remains we need to follow George Santayana's maxim:
'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'

Many people forget that WWII was hugely costly in terms of blood and treasure. The US was not only going broke, but in a mere 3.5 years of fighting had lost over 400,000 killed and over 670,000 wounded. Ending the war as quickly as possible using the most certain actions was a major duty of our leaders. Guessing about what the Japanese may or may not do would cost lives every day we dilly-dallied.

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: World-Wide Deaths

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: US Military

But it sounds to me that many of the contributors to this thread are not so much learning from the War as still defending it. Still fighting it, if you will. The blame game is not what history is supposed to teach us. My Dad fought, many of my relatives in his generation and many of our friends fought. I have no problem whatsoever with declaring war on Japan or even dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If anyone asked for it, they did. But I would hate like hell to think we are going to get involved in another war involving nukes. It requires a pretty radical pivot to move away from that "Let's invade and kick the shit out of 'em" mentality we continue to automatically turn to when confronted with hostile actions by another country.

We may not have a choice. Note the aggression displayed by China, Iran, and Russia. Or do you plan to sit still and let them have their way with the world?

I watched a documentary this morning on the US vs China. Whole lot I didn't know. They are gearing up to take over.

Yes. Eventually they will need to expand. We've known that for a very long time. Unkotare should start offering lessons in Mandarin here.

Explain that. Why do they need to take over Taiwan for example?

They don't and they won't.

 

[Iceweasel]

But it sounds to me that many of the contributors to this thread are not so much learning from the War as still defending it. Still fighting it, if you will. The blame game is not what history is supposed to teach us. My Dad fought, many of my relatives in his generation and many of our friends fought. I have no problem whatsoever with declaring war on Japan or even dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If anyone asked for it, they did. But I would hate like hell to think we are going to get involved in another war involving nukes. It requires a pretty radical pivot to move away from that "Let's invade and kick the shit out of 'em" mentality we continue to automatically turn to when confronted with hostile actions by another country.

We may not have a choice. Note the aggression displayed by China, Iran, and Russia. Or do you plan to sit still and let them have their way with the world?

I watched a documentary this morning on the US vs China. Whole lot I didn't know. They are gearing up to take over.

Yes. Eventually they will need to expand. We've known that for a very long time. Unkotare should start offering lessons in Mandarin here.

Explain that. Why do they need to take over Taiwan for example?

They don't and they won't.

You get your intel from ...?

 

[Unkotare]

....
Yes. Eventually they will need to expand. ......

Why do you say that?

 

[Unkotare]

We may not have a choice. Note the aggression displayed by China, Iran, and Russia. Or do you plan to sit still and let them have their way with the world?

I watched a documentary this morning on the US vs China. Whole lot I didn't know. They are gearing up to take over.

Yes. Eventually they will need to expand. We've known that for a very long time. Unkotare should start offering lessons in Mandarin here.

Explain that. Why do they need to take over Taiwan for example?

They don't and they won't.

You get your intel from ...?

History, Political Science, International Relations, and personal experience.

 

[Divine Wind]

Of course not. I don't believe that any of those countries at this point is doing anymore than pissing on the trees at the edge of their territory, however, and defending its self interests. If you look at the graph in #268 posted by Divine Wind, the planet is losing less lives to war now than in any time since WWII ended. The media and the internet is bringing home and sensationalizing every act of violence to us in ways that were not possible 70 years ago. So it seems like we are in the most violent and chaotic times in history. But history may look back at this era and call it a Golden Age of Peace.

Agreed.

Vietnam was the first televised war. During WWII and the Korea War, visual reports on a war were seen weeks or months later via movie theater newsreels. In Vietnam, Americans saw it every day at dinner time along with that day's body count.

Secondly, as noted several times around this forum, media is a business which needs an audience or readership to survive. Nothing attracts an audience or readership like controversy and bloodshed.

If anything, our major problem today is information overload where relatively small problems are often blown out of proportion.

 

[Divine Wind]

I'm AMERICAN, and my Mandarin has gotten pretty bad over the years.

Back-pedaling already? Interesting.

 

[Unkotare]

I'm AMERICAN, and my Mandarin has gotten pretty bad over the years.

Back-pedaling already? .

How so? I could teach you some basic Mandarin if I thought for one second you were capable of learning. But I've got to be honest about my degree of fluency which has deteriorated significantly over the past decade. or so.

 

[OldLady]

....
Yes. Eventually they will need to expand. ......

Why do you say that?

Soooo many people? The need for resources? Am I wrong?

 

[Divine Wind]

How so? I could teach you some basic Mandarin if I thought for one second you were capable of learning. But I've got to be honest about my degree of fluency which has deteriorated significantly over the past decade. or so.

LOL. Easy to see part of your problem. No doubt you are 100% correct on the significant deterioration of your skill.

 

[Unkotare]

....
Yes. Eventually they will need to expand. ......

Why do you say that?

Soooo many people? The need for resources? Am I wrong?

The "sooooo many people" problem is going to become the "not enough young people" problem sooner than the PRC would like. Resources can be obtained more easily than wars for territory.