No Apology but Good Thinking

[Divine Wind]

It is not the fact of war that sets Hiroshima apart. Artifacts tell us that violent conflict appeared with the very first man. Our early ancestors having learned to make blades from flint and spears from wood used these tools not just for hunting but against their own kind. On every continent, the history of civilization is filled with war, whether driven by scarcity of grain or hunger for gold, compelled by nationalist fervor or religious zeal. Empires have risen and fallen. Peoples have been subjugated and liberated. And at each juncture, innocents have suffered, a countless toll, their names forgotten by time.

NO ONE comes out of a war like that smelling like a rose. They did wrong. We did wrong. The Nazis did wrong. It's over. Our president's point is, how do we prevent it from happening again? Not by continuing to point fingers at one another and continue the ill will.

Peace is a pipe dream, there has been war since the beginning and there will be war until the end. Obungles should have kept his sorry ass home instead of once again making himself look like the jackass he is

Agreed about peace, at least at this stage of human development, is a pipe dream. We're an adolescent race and will be for a long time to come. One day, I do believe there will be peace, but not in our lifetimes.

 

[TooTall]

Did he mention the dead Americans that the Japanese murdered at Pearl Harbor? I am betting he did not. How about the Bataan death march? Probably not.

How 'bout you listen to his remarks? He is not stuck on blaming and he did not defend either side of the conflict.

Obama blamed mankind.

 

[Divine Wind]

...NO ONE comes out of a war like that smelling like a rose. They did wrong. We did wrong. The Nazis did wrong. It's over. Our president's point is, how do we prevent it from happening again? Not by continuing to point fingers at one another and continue the ill will.

While there are a lot of truisms in what you say, the fact remains we need to follow George Santayana's maxim:
'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'

Many people forget that WWII was hugely costly in terms of blood and treasure. The US was not only going broke, but in a mere 3.5 years of fighting had lost over 400,000 killed and over 670,000 wounded. Ending the war as quickly as possible using the most certain actions was a major duty of our leaders. Guessing about what the Japanese may or may not do would cost lives every day we dilly-dallied.

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: World-Wide Deaths

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: US Military

 

[OldLady]

There's seldom any upside to waking up at 4:30 a.m., but this morning I turned on the telly to find our President just beginning his remarks at Hiroshima. He didn't apologize for anything. It was a great speech. Thoughtful.

At the bottom of the page is a button for "Listen" to full remarks. 17 minutes. Very much worth listening to.

Obama Makes Historic Visit To Hiroshima Memorial Peace Park

Have a great and peaceful day.

I know its going to be a lazy day when I wake up before 6 am. I stopped taking ambien and I sleep very well.
I also started taking Black Cohosh to stop hot flashes from a cancer treatment that used to wake me up..

.

The sun is up before 5 a.m. and of course, it is light before that. Some days I can put the pillow over my head and go back to sleep, but that morning, the cat was watching like a hawk for the Human to stop snoring and get her breakfast.

Did he mention the dead Americans that the Japanese murdered at Pearl Harbor? I am betting he did not. How about the Bataan death march? Probably not.

How 'bout you listen to his remarks? He is not stuck on blaming and he did not defend either side of the conflict.

Obama blamed mankind.

Was there some other entity to blame?

 

[WillowTree]

 

[OldLady]

It is not the fact of war that sets Hiroshima apart. Artifacts tell us that violent conflict appeared with the very first man. Our early ancestors having learned to make blades from flint and spears from wood used these tools not just for hunting but against their own kind. On every continent, the history of civilization is filled with war, whether driven by scarcity of grain or hunger for gold, compelled by nationalist fervor or religious zeal. Empires have risen and fallen. Peoples have been subjugated and liberated. And at each juncture, innocents have suffered, a countless toll, their names forgotten by time.

NO ONE comes out of a war like that smelling like a rose. They did wrong. We did wrong. The Nazis did wrong. It's over. Our president's point is, how do we prevent it from happening again? Not by continuing to point fingers at one another and continue the ill will.

Peace is a pipe dream, there has been war since the beginning and there will be war until the end. Obungles should have kept his sorry ass home instead of once again making himself look like the jackass he is

No doubt there will be war until the end, particularly if everyone shrugs and says Oh well. Que sera, sera. You and I have lived with peace so long we take it for granted, no matter how much we try to be grateful for it. We don't know what war in the front yard is like. We might want to honor peace a bit more if we truly understood the alternatives. That's my theory, anyway.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

It is not the fact of war that sets Hiroshima apart. Artifacts tell us that violent conflict appeared with the very first man. Our early ancestors having learned to make blades from flint and spears from wood used these tools not just for hunting but against their own kind. On every continent, the history of civilization is filled with war, whether driven by scarcity of grain or hunger for gold, compelled by nationalist fervor or religious zeal. Empires have risen and fallen. Peoples have been subjugated and liberated. And at each juncture, innocents have suffered, a countless toll, their names forgotten by time.

NO ONE comes out of a war like that smelling like a rose. They did wrong. We did wrong. The Nazis did wrong. It's over. Our president's point is, how do we prevent it from happening again? Not by continuing to point fingers at one another and continue the ill will.

Peace is a pipe dream, there has been war since the beginning and there will be war until the end. Obungles should have kept his sorry ass home instead of once again making himself look like the jackass he is

No doubt there will be war until the end, particularly if everyone shrugs and says Oh well. Que sera, sera. You and I have lived with peace so long we take it for granted, no matter how much we try to be grateful for it. We don't know what war in the front yard is like. We might want to honor peace a bit more if we truly understood the alternatives. That's my theory, anyway.

We've lived with peace? Excuse me but I watched my best friend be buried due to war

 

[Divine Wind]

It is not the fact of war that sets Hiroshima apart. Artifacts tell us that violent conflict appeared with the very first man. Our early ancestors having learned to make blades from flint and spears from wood used these tools not just for hunting but against their own kind. On every continent, the history of civilization is filled with war, whether driven by scarcity of grain or hunger for gold, compelled by nationalist fervor or religious zeal. Empires have risen and fallen. Peoples have been subjugated and liberated. And at each juncture, innocents have suffered, a countless toll, their names forgotten by time.

NO ONE comes out of a war like that smelling like a rose. They did wrong. We did wrong. The Nazis did wrong. It's over. Our president's point is, how do we prevent it from happening again? Not by continuing to point fingers at one another and continue the ill will.

Peace is a pipe dream, there has been war since the beginning and there will be war until the end. Obungles should have kept his sorry ass home instead of once again making himself look like the jackass he is

No doubt there will be war until the end, particularly if everyone shrugs and says Oh well. Que sera, sera. You and I have lived with peace so long we take it for granted, no matter how much we try to be grateful for it. We don't know what war in the front yard is like. We might want to honor peace a bit more if we truly understood the alternatives. That's my theory, anyway.

We've lived with peace? Excuse me but I watched my best friend be buried due to war

I think Old Lady was referring to the fact your house isn't being shelled and your neighbors aren't being executed in the street by our enemies.

Another factor is comparing the trend of war casualties over time. Example: https://www.ourworldindata.org/roser/presentation/until 2015/OMS 11th May – Our World In Data.pdf

 

[Eaglewings]

There's seldom any upside to waking up at 4:30 a.m., but this morning I turned on the telly to find our President just beginning his remarks at Hiroshima. He didn't apologize for anything. It was a great speech. Thoughtful.

At the bottom of the page is a button for "Listen" to full remarks. 17 minutes. Very much worth listening to.

Obama Makes Historic Visit To Hiroshima Memorial Peace Park

Have a great and peaceful day.

I know its going to be a lazy day when I wake up before 6 am. I stopped taking ambien and I sleep very well.
I also started taking Black Cohosh to stop hot flashes from a cancer treatment that used to wake me up..

.

The sun is up before 5 a.m. and of course, it is light before that. Some days I can put the pillow over my head and go back to sleep, but that morning, the cat was watching like a hawk for the Human to stop snoring and get her breakfast.

Did he mention the dead Americans that the Japanese murdered at Pearl Harbor? I am betting he did not. How about the Bataan death march? Probably not.

How 'bout you listen to his remarks? He is not stuck on blaming and he did not defend either side of the conflict.

Obama blamed mankind.

Was there some other entity to blame?

LOL...same here. My body wakes up when the suns rises...And my cat runs around to get the dog to bark so she gets her breakfast..
I used to go to bed at this time in my younger days..


.

 

[OldLady]

...NO ONE comes out of a war like that smelling like a rose. They did wrong. We did wrong. The Nazis did wrong. It's over. Our president's point is, how do we prevent it from happening again? Not by continuing to point fingers at one another and continue the ill will.

While there are a lot of truisms in what you say, the fact remains we need to follow George Santayana's maxim:
'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'

Many people forget that WWII was hugely costly in terms of blood and treasure. The US was not only going broke, but in a mere 3.5 years of fighting had lost over 400,000 killed and over 670,000 wounded. Ending the war as quickly as possible using the most certain actions was a major duty of our leaders. Guessing about what the Japanese may or may not do would cost lives every day we dilly-dallied.

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: World-Wide Deaths

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: US Military

But it sounds to me that many of the contributors to this thread are not so much learning from the War as still defending it. Still fighting it, if you will. The blame game is not what history is supposed to teach us. My Dad fought, many of my relatives in his generation and many of our friends fought. I have no problem whatsoever with declaring war on Japan or even dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If anyone asked for it, they did. But I would hate like hell to think we are going to get involved in another war involving nukes. It requires a pretty radical pivot to move away from that "Let's invade and kick the shit out of 'em" mentality we continue to automatically turn to when confronted with hostile actions by another country.

 

[OldLady]

It is not the fact of war that sets Hiroshima apart. Artifacts tell us that violent conflict appeared with the very first man. Our early ancestors having learned to make blades from flint and spears from wood used these tools not just for hunting but against their own kind. On every continent, the history of civilization is filled with war, whether driven by scarcity of grain or hunger for gold, compelled by nationalist fervor or religious zeal. Empires have risen and fallen. Peoples have been subjugated and liberated. And at each juncture, innocents have suffered, a countless toll, their names forgotten by time.

NO ONE comes out of a war like that smelling like a rose. They did wrong. We did wrong. The Nazis did wrong. It's over. Our president's point is, how do we prevent it from happening again? Not by continuing to point fingers at one another and continue the ill will.

Peace is a pipe dream, there has been war since the beginning and there will be war until the end. Obungles should have kept his sorry ass home instead of once again making himself look like the jackass he is

No doubt there will be war until the end, particularly if everyone shrugs and says Oh well. Que sera, sera. You and I have lived with peace so long we take it for granted, no matter how much we try to be grateful for it. We don't know what war in the front yard is like. We might want to honor peace a bit more if we truly understood the alternatives. That's my theory, anyway.

We've lived with peace? Excuse me but I watched my best friend be buried due to war

I'm sorry for your friend. I meant war literally in our front yards.

 

[Divine Wind]

...NO ONE comes out of a war like that smelling like a rose. They did wrong. We did wrong. The Nazis did wrong. It's over. Our president's point is, how do we prevent it from happening again? Not by continuing to point fingers at one another and continue the ill will.

While there are a lot of truisms in what you say, the fact remains we need to follow George Santayana's maxim:
'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'

Many people forget that WWII was hugely costly in terms of blood and treasure. The US was not only going broke, but in a mere 3.5 years of fighting had lost over 400,000 killed and over 670,000 wounded. Ending the war as quickly as possible using the most certain actions was a major duty of our leaders. Guessing about what the Japanese may or may not do would cost lives every day we dilly-dallied.

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: World-Wide Deaths

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: US Military

But it sounds to me that many of the contributors to this thread are not so much learning from the War as still defending it. Still fighting it, if you will. The blame game is not what history is supposed to teach us. My Dad fought, many of my relatives in his generation and many of our friends fought. I have no problem whatsoever with declaring war on Japan or even dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If anyone asked for it, they did. But I would hate like hell to think we are going to get involved in another war involving nukes. It requires a pretty radical pivot to move away from that "Let's invade and kick the shit out of 'em" mentality we continue to automatically turn to when confronted with hostile actions by another country.

While I completely agree with you, the debate is mainly over whether or not the US owes Japan an apology for ending the war using two atomic bombs. Yes, some of that gets into "the Blame Game", but mostly it's a lot of Monday Morning Quarterbacking by America-bashers.

 

[Eaglewings]

...NO ONE comes out of a war like that smelling like a rose. They did wrong. We did wrong. The Nazis did wrong. It's over. Our president's point is, how do we prevent it from happening again? Not by continuing to point fingers at one another and continue the ill will.

While there are a lot of truisms in what you say, the fact remains we need to follow George Santayana's maxim:
'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'

Many people forget that WWII was hugely costly in terms of blood and treasure. The US was not only going broke, but in a mere 3.5 years of fighting had lost over 400,000 killed and over 670,000 wounded. Ending the war as quickly as possible using the most certain actions was a major duty of our leaders. Guessing about what the Japanese may or may not do would cost lives every day we dilly-dallied.

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: World-Wide Deaths

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: US Military

But it sounds to me that many of the contributors to this thread are not so much learning from the War as still defending it. Still fighting it, if you will. The blame game is not what history is supposed to teach us. My Dad fought, many of my relatives in his generation and many of our friends fought. I have no problem whatsoever with declaring war on Japan or even dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If anyone asked for it, they did. But I would hate like hell to think we are going to get involved in another war involving nukes. It requires a pretty radical pivot to move away from that "Let's invade and kick the shit out of 'em" mentality we continue to automatically turn to when confronted with hostile actions by another country.

I do not mean to quote you so many times, but we have a lot in common...

My dad fought in WWII over in Saipan , my grandfather fought in WWI. I have an uncle who cried until the day he died from what he witnessed.
So easy for someone to sit behind their comfy computer while judging and pointing fingers..

.

 

[WillowTree]

...NO ONE comes out of a war like that smelling like a rose. They did wrong. We did wrong. The Nazis did wrong. It's over. Our president's point is, how do we prevent it from happening again? Not by continuing to point fingers at one another and continue the ill will.

While there are a lot of truisms in what you say, the fact remains we need to follow George Santayana's maxim:
'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'

Many people forget that WWII was hugely costly in terms of blood and treasure. The US was not only going broke, but in a mere 3.5 years of fighting had lost over 400,000 killed and over 670,000 wounded. Ending the war as quickly as possible using the most certain actions was a major duty of our leaders. Guessing about what the Japanese may or may not do would cost lives every day we dilly-dallied.

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: World-Wide Deaths

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: US Military

But it sounds to me that many of the contributors to this thread are not so much learning from the War as still defending it. Still fighting it, if you will. The blame game is not what history is supposed to teach us. My Dad fought, many of my relatives in his generation and many of our friends fought. I have no problem whatsoever with declaring war on Japan or even dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If anyone asked for it, they did. But I would hate like hell to think we are going to get involved in another war involving nukes. It requires a pretty radical pivot to move away from that "Let's invade and kick the shit out of 'em" mentality we continue to automatically turn to when confronted with hostile actions by another country.

We may not have a choice. Note the aggression displayed by China, Iran, and Russia. Or do you plan to sit still and let them have their way with the world?

 

[Iceweasel]

But it sounds to me that many of the contributors to this thread are not so much learning from the War as still defending it. Still fighting it, if you will. The blame game is not what history is supposed to teach us. My Dad fought, many of my relatives in his generation and many of our friends fought. I have no problem whatsoever with declaring war on Japan or even dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If anyone asked for it, they did. But I would hate like hell to think we are going to get involved in another war involving nukes. It requires a pretty radical pivot to move away from that "Let's invade and kick the shit out of 'em" mentality we continue to automatically turn to when confronted with hostile actions by another country.

You are a liberal. Disagreeing with you IS war. People like you say we were wrong, when people like me say bullshit, it needed to be done considering the circumstances you say we are the ones fighting. Grow up.

 

[Iceweasel]

...NO ONE comes out of a war like that smelling like a rose. They did wrong. We did wrong. The Nazis did wrong. It's over. Our president's point is, how do we prevent it from happening again? Not by continuing to point fingers at one another and continue the ill will.

While there are a lot of truisms in what you say, the fact remains we need to follow George Santayana's maxim:
'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'

Many people forget that WWII was hugely costly in terms of blood and treasure. The US was not only going broke, but in a mere 3.5 years of fighting had lost over 400,000 killed and over 670,000 wounded. Ending the war as quickly as possible using the most certain actions was a major duty of our leaders. Guessing about what the Japanese may or may not do would cost lives every day we dilly-dallied.

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: World-Wide Deaths

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: US Military

But it sounds to me that many of the contributors to this thread are not so much learning from the War as still defending it. Still fighting it, if you will. The blame game is not what history is supposed to teach us. My Dad fought, many of my relatives in his generation and many of our friends fought. I have no problem whatsoever with declaring war on Japan or even dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If anyone asked for it, they did. But I would hate like hell to think we are going to get involved in another war involving nukes. It requires a pretty radical pivot to move away from that "Let's invade and kick the shit out of 'em" mentality we continue to automatically turn to when confronted with hostile actions by another country.

We may not have a choice. Note the aggression displayed by China, Iran, and Russia. Or do you plan to sit still and let them have their way with the world?

I watched a documentary this morning on the US vs China. Whole lot I didn't know. They are gearing up to take over.

 

[OldLady]

...NO ONE comes out of a war like that smelling like a rose. They did wrong. We did wrong. The Nazis did wrong. It's over. Our president's point is, how do we prevent it from happening again? Not by continuing to point fingers at one another and continue the ill will.

While there are a lot of truisms in what you say, the fact remains we need to follow George Santayana's maxim:
'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'

Many people forget that WWII was hugely costly in terms of blood and treasure. The US was not only going broke, but in a mere 3.5 years of fighting had lost over 400,000 killed and over 670,000 wounded. Ending the war as quickly as possible using the most certain actions was a major duty of our leaders. Guessing about what the Japanese may or may not do would cost lives every day we dilly-dallied.

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: World-Wide Deaths

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: US Military

But it sounds to me that many of the contributors to this thread are not so much learning from the War as still defending it. Still fighting it, if you will. The blame game is not what history is supposed to teach us. My Dad fought, many of my relatives in his generation and many of our friends fought. I have no problem whatsoever with declaring war on Japan or even dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If anyone asked for it, they did. But I would hate like hell to think we are going to get involved in another war involving nukes. It requires a pretty radical pivot to move away from that "Let's invade and kick the shit out of 'em" mentality we continue to automatically turn to when confronted with hostile actions by another country.

While I completely agree with you, the debate is mainly over whether or not the US owes Japan an apology for ending the war using two atomic bombs. Yes, some of that gets into "the Blame Game", but mostly it's a lot of Monday Morning Quarterbacking by America-bashers.

Okay. So I vote no, we don't need to apologize. And Obama DIDN'T.

 

[OldLady]

But it sounds to me that many of the contributors to this thread are not so much learning from the War as still defending it. Still fighting it, if you will. The blame game is not what history is supposed to teach us. My Dad fought, many of my relatives in his generation and many of our friends fought. I have no problem whatsoever with declaring war on Japan or even dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If anyone asked for it, they did. But I would hate like hell to think we are going to get involved in another war involving nukes. It requires a pretty radical pivot to move away from that "Let's invade and kick the shit out of 'em" mentality we continue to automatically turn to when confronted with hostile actions by another country.

You are a liberal. Disagreeing with you IS war. People like you say we were wrong, when people like me say bullshit, it needed to be done considering the circumstances you say we are the ones fighting. Grow up.

People like you say we were wrong,
Once again you are deliberately misconstruing my message so you can continue your illogical hate campaign. Not a surprise from this quarter.

 

[OldLady]

...NO ONE comes out of a war like that smelling like a rose. They did wrong. We did wrong. The Nazis did wrong. It's over. Our president's point is, how do we prevent it from happening again? Not by continuing to point fingers at one another and continue the ill will.

While there are a lot of truisms in what you say, the fact remains we need to follow George Santayana's maxim:
'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'

Many people forget that WWII was hugely costly in terms of blood and treasure. The US was not only going broke, but in a mere 3.5 years of fighting had lost over 400,000 killed and over 670,000 wounded. Ending the war as quickly as possible using the most certain actions was a major duty of our leaders. Guessing about what the Japanese may or may not do would cost lives every day we dilly-dallied.

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: World-Wide Deaths

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: US Military

But it sounds to me that many of the contributors to this thread are not so much learning from the War as still defending it. Still fighting it, if you will. The blame game is not what history is supposed to teach us. My Dad fought, many of my relatives in his generation and many of our friends fought. I have no problem whatsoever with declaring war on Japan or even dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If anyone asked for it, they did. But I would hate like hell to think we are going to get involved in another war involving nukes. It requires a pretty radical pivot to move away from that "Let's invade and kick the shit out of 'em" mentality we continue to automatically turn to when confronted with hostile actions by another country.

We may not have a choice. Note the aggression displayed by China, Iran, and Russia. Or do you plan to sit still and let them have their way with the world?

I watched a documentary this morning on the US vs China. Whole lot I didn't know. They are gearing up to take over.

Yes. Eventually they will need to expand. We've known that for a very long time. Unkotare should start offering lessons in Mandarin here.

 

[WillowTree]

By the way! Does Obama have

...NO ONE comes out of a war like that smelling like a rose. They did wrong. We did wrong. The Nazis did wrong. It's over. Our president's point is, how do we prevent it from happening again? Not by continuing to point fingers at one another and continue the ill will.

While there are a lot of truisms in what you say, the fact remains we need to follow George Santayana's maxim:
'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'

Many people forget that WWII was hugely costly in terms of blood and treasure. The US was not only going broke, but in a mere 3.5 years of fighting had lost over 400,000 killed and over 670,000 wounded. Ending the war as quickly as possible using the most certain actions was a major duty of our leaders. Guessing about what the Japanese may or may not do would cost lives every day we dilly-dallied.

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: World-Wide Deaths

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: US Military

But it sounds to me that many of the contributors to this thread are not so much learning from the War as still defending it. Still fighting it, if you will. The blame game is not what history is supposed to teach us. My Dad fought, many of my relatives in his generation and many of our friends fought. I have no problem whatsoever with declaring war on Japan or even dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If anyone asked for it, they did. But I would hate like hell to think we are going to get involved in another war involving nukes. It requires a pretty radical pivot to move away from that "Let's invade and kick the shit out of 'em" mentality we continue to automatically turn to when confronted with hostile actions by another country.

We may not have a choice. Note the aggression displayed by China, Iran, and Russia. Or do you plan to sit still and let them have their way with the world?

I watched a documentary this morning on the US vs China. Whole lot I didn't know. They are gearing up to take over.

of course they are and that makes Japan very nervous.