New Zealand: First They Took Their Guns.....Now They're Removing Jesus From Their Lives

[anynameyouwish]

The New Zealand parliament is absolutely willing to acknowledge all other "bronze aged myths" but specifically omits the name of Jesus suddenly without consultation or notice.

False. There is no other reference to any silly gods, demons, fairies, or unicorns in the prayer. You are making shit up, and it's false.

t the very least 48% of New Zealand citizens deserve to be heard on the issue.

No they don't. They deserve to be allowed to worship as they please and to express their opinions out loud, and this is all they deserve.

First of all, you do not know this to be true:

You literally just posted yourself that 48% of new Zealanders are Christian. You DO know that 52% is "most", right? Come on, man.

sorry but 52% is not most,,,

52% is NOT most?!?!?!?!

conservatives are BAD at math!

 

[pismoe]

reading through the posts , its this kinda zhit that happens when a country allow Diversity into its borders . It should be a warning to others , especially Americans who are purposely destroying the USA cohesiveness .

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

It is LOGICAL and FAIR for any secular government to NOT favor one religion over another.

If you don't understand than then you truly ARE a conservative!

lord help ya.....

ALL religions are included in a parliamentary prayer.ALL religions!
If suddenly the citizenry wants a specific mention of Jesus,who undoubtedly is included by name due to historical and cultural reasons, then let the nation have a discussion. Don't let one single politician decide for everyone by himself.

But as a leftist I understand there is an authoritarian streak in you a mile wide and you seem to like it when
a partisan politician has all the say.

Kinda like our pledge of allegiance.

It should be inclusive of all Americans and NOT include ANY religious reference. it is a pledge to our nation, NOT YOUR GOD!

Okay, here is the part where it's difficult NOT to insult another exhibition of pure ignorance but the pledge of allegiance DOES mention God and it's not "my" God (which you have no conception of) by the way.

so now its your turn to respond with mockery and insults.....

have fun!

Your posts mock themselves. They are consistently error filled celebrations of intellectual under achievement. Is this what you want?

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Unfortunately Blair is beyond reason.

and resorts to lies, taunts, insults, mockery....

but no facts.

Such a lie. Point out where I've made factual errors. It should be easy for you.

 

[pismoe]

--------------------------------------- there is NO Enforcement or FORCED Bowing to a Christian God in the USA or most of the Western World . Course in 'islam' they will Enforce by lashes , cutting off of hands , beheadings , stonings and teaching 'gays' to fly plus stonings AnyN !!

All of which shows the danger of letting a country be taken over by religion-based governments.

----------------------------------- as in 'islam' !!

 

[idb]

20 Commandments of Mohammad the founder of Islam
1. Thou shall Rape, Marry, and Divorce Pre-pubescent Girls. Koran 65:4
2. Thou shall have Sex Slaves and Work Slaves. Koran 4:3, 4:24, 5:89, 33:50, 58:3, 70:30
3. Thou shall Beat Sex Slaves, Work Slaves, and Wives. Koran 4:34
4. Thou shall have 4 Muslim male witnesses to prove rape. Koran 24:13
5. Thou shall Kill those who insult Islam or Mohammed. Koran 33:57
6. Thou shall Crucify and Amputate non-Muslims. Koran 8:12, 47:4
7. Thou shall Kill non-Muslims to guarantee receiving 72 virgins in heaven. Koran 9:111
8. Thou shall Kill anyone who leaves Islam. Koran 2:217, 4:89
9. Thou shall Behead non-Muslims. Koran 8:12, 47:4
10. Thou shall Kill AND be Killed for Islamic Allah. Koran 9:5
11. Thou shall Terrorize non-Muslims. Koran 8:12, 8:60
12. Thou shall Steal and Rob from non-Muslims. Koran Chapter 8 (Booty/Spoils of War)
13. Thou shall Lie to Strengthen Islam. Koran 3:28, 16:106
14. Thou shall Fight non-Muslim even if you don't want to. Koran 2:216
15. Thou shall not take non-Muslims as friends. Koran 5:51
16. Thou shall Call non-Muslims Pigs and Apes. Koran 5:60, 7:166, 16:106
17. Thou shall Treat non-Muslims as the vilest creatures deserving no mercy. Koran 98:6
18. Thou shall Treat non-Muslims as sworn enemies. Koran 4:101
19. Thou shall Kill non-Muslims for not converting to Islam. Koran 9:29
20. Thou shall Extort non-Muslims to keep Islam strong. Koran 9:29.

One can certainly make a case that ISLAM is WORSE than christianity but
that doesn't make christianity GOOD!

one could easily (and it has been done so I won't bother now) pull passages from the bible that are just as vile

proslavery
killing unbelievers
women submit to husbands

Looks like you know absolutely nothing about Christianity,
like most Christians who profess but don't study.

Conservative self-proclaimed CHRISTIAN Roy Moore (ex-judge, ran for US State Senator in Alabama and BARELY lost to a democrat) thinks you are an idiot.

HE says that the BIBLE specifically proclaims homosexuality a SIN and he believes it should be a CRIME in the US!

Why don't you go argue with him.

tell HIM to stop using the OT

tell HIM he doesn't know much about the bible....

and after that tell TRUMP who ENDORSED Moore for senate.

It does mention it and condemn it, but it doesn't call for violent action.

The New Testament says that homosexuality is a “shameful lust” (Romans 1:26), a “shameful act,” an abandonment of “natural relations” (Romans 1:27), a “wrongdoing” (1 Corinthians 6:9), and “sexual immorality and perversion” (Jude 1:7). Homosexuality carries a “due penalty” (Romans 1:27), “is contrary to the sound doctrine” (1 Timothy 1:10), and is listed among the sins that bar people from the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9). Despite the attempts of some to downplay these verses, the Bible could not be clearer that homosexuality is a sin against God.

But these parts have nothing to do with Jesus. It's all Saul/Paul, Timothy. Find something from Jesus.

If you want to talk OT, show me that you follow the tenets of Leviticus and Deuternomy. I've read both. Good luck.

"Show me in the Bible where it condemns homosexuals"
...
"Ok, ok, well show me where it calls for action against homosexuals"
...
"Well, alright...then show me where it calls for action against homosexuals in Books beginning with 'G' that were written on a Wednesday...I bet you can't...so I win!"

 

[pismoe]

.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

False. There is no other reference to any silly gods, demons, fairies, or unicorns in the prayer. You are making shit up, and it's false.

Read the OP, my man, instead of flapping your virtual lips. You will find a reference to a non specific God in it. Stay sharp.

No they don't. They deserve to be allowed to worship as they please and to express their opinions out loud, and this is all they deserve.

That's very white of you but who are you to speak for New Zealand citizens? Careful...you inner fascist is showing.

You literally just posted yourself that 48% of new Zealanders are Christian. You DO know that 52% is "most", right? Come on, man.

That's right and you realize that those other 52% are not definitely anti Christian or against the parliamentary prayer as it's always been...right?
No vote has been taken on the subject. You have no idea how New Zealand citizens may come down on this.

Get over yourself and stop assuming facts not in evidence.

 

[idb]

One can certainly make a case that ISLAM is WORSE than christianity but
that doesn't make christianity GOOD!

one could easily (and it has been done so I won't bother now) pull passages from the bible that are just as vile

proslavery
killing unbelievers
women submit to husbands

Looks like you know absolutely nothing about Christianity,
like most Christians who profess but don't study.

Conservative self-proclaimed CHRISTIAN Roy Moore (ex-judge, ran for US State Senator in Alabama and BARELY lost to a democrat) thinks you are an idiot.

HE says that the BIBLE specifically proclaims homosexuality a SIN and he believes it should be a CRIME in the US!

Why don't you go argue with him.

tell HIM to stop using the OT

tell HIM he doesn't know much about the bible....

and after that tell TRUMP who ENDORSED Moore for senate.

It does mention it and condemn it, but it doesn't call for violent action.

The New Testament says that homosexuality is a “shameful lust” (Romans 1:26), a “shameful act,” an abandonment of “natural relations” (Romans 1:27), a “wrongdoing” (1 Corinthians 6:9), and “sexual immorality and perversion” (Jude 1:7). Homosexuality carries a “due penalty” (Romans 1:27), “is contrary to the sound doctrine” (1 Timothy 1:10), and is listed among the sins that bar people from the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9). Despite the attempts of some to downplay these verses, the Bible could not be clearer that homosexuality is a sin against God.

doesn't call for VIOLENT action?

"shall be put to death"
"by stoning"
"suffer not a witch to live"

---------------------------------------------------------- and thats Ancient history not practiced by any Christian in the USA or the Western world . Course , muslims do the VIOLENCE all the time in present times as they follow the RULES of 'mo' AnyN .

It's fortunate that the USA and the "Western world" are secular then, isn't it?
That "oppression of Christians" thing has kept us all safer.

 

[idb]

Most of the 10 commandments are actually UNconstitutional.

Many of the Commandments are admonishments to the Israelites and not considered "laws" at all as far as the Constitution is concerned.

Instructing the Jews to not work on the Sabbath, to not make carved images for worship, not to take the Lord's name in vain, etc. are not matters for Supreme Court review or decisions anymore than taking your hat off indoors or covering your mouth when you cough.

Where do you come up with your bizarre ideas?

me: "most of the 10 commandments are unconstitutional"

you "Where do you come up with your bizarre ideas?"


the 10 commandments

1. You shall have no other Gods but me. (unconstitutional)
   
2. You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.(unconstitutional)
3. You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.(UNconstitutional)
   
4. You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.(unconstitutional)
5. Respect your father and mother.(unconstitutional)
6. You must not commit murder.
7. You must not commit adultery.(tell THAT to trump)
   
8. You must not steal.
9. You must not give false evidence against your neighbour.
10. You must not be envious of your neighbour's goods. You shall not be envious of his house nor his wife, nor anything that belongs to your neighbour.(unconstitutional)

They would be unconstitutional if they were imposed by a government.
Lucky for everyone that the USA doesn't have a state religion.

 

[progressive hunter]

The New Zealand parliament is absolutely willing to acknowledge all other "bronze aged myths" but specifically omits the name of Jesus suddenly without consultation or notice.

False. There is no other reference to any silly gods, demons, fairies, or unicorns in the prayer. You are making shit up, and it's false.

t the very least 48% of New Zealand citizens deserve to be heard on the issue.

No they don't. They deserve to be allowed to worship as they please and to express their opinions out loud, and this is all they deserve.

First of all, you do not know this to be true:

You literally just posted yourself that 48% of new Zealanders are Christian. You DO know that 52% is "most", right? Come on, man.

sorry but 52% is not most,,,

52% is NOT most?!?!?!?!

conservatives are BAD at math!

did you figure in the margin for error in the number???

I bet not

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

52% is NOT most?!?!?!?!

conservatives are BAD at math!

All you know is 48% of New Zealand citizens self identify as Christians.

What you DON'T know is if that automatically means 52% of New Zealand residents want parliamentary prayers changed to delete all references to Jesus. I, for instance, don't self identity as a Christian but would leave the prayer alone and at least get public input on the matter.

Is that too complicated?


Learn to differentiate your prejudices and assumptions from facts. You might learn something.

 

[idb]

Well, allow me:

1) It's logical, because modern, secular governments should not be showing a preference for , or even making any reference at all, to bronze aged myths in their official business. that being true, it then follows that a reference to a specific, bronze aged myth be removed from the parliamentary prayer.

It's not true. You've only assumed it is.

The New Zealand parliament is absolutely willing to acknowledge all other "bronze aged myths" but specifically omits the name of Jesus suddenly without consultation or notice. That is an absolute strike at Christianity made in a unilateral
and one sided, biased way.
At the very least 48% of New Zealand citizens deserve to be heard on the issue. Or are you just a fan of authoritarian rule?

2) It's fair because most New Zealanders, and much of the parliament, do not subscribe to this particular, bronze age myth.

First of all, you do not know this to be true:
I don't identify as a Christian per se but I believe in the historical figure, Jesus of Nazareth and I too would object to this single bureaucrat official making a decision that seems to be anti Christian, were I a citizen.

Put the matter to vote, unless you don't like consent of the governed as a principle.

By referencing 'Almighty God' the dastardly communo-fascist NZ parliament is actually proposing to discriminate against all religions that aren't monotheistic.
So...relax Christians...you're not the only ones being oppressed.

 

[idb]

--------------------------------------- there is NO Enforcement or FORCED Bowing to a Christian God in the USA or most of the Western World . Course in 'islam' they will Enforce by lashes , cutting off of hands , beheadings , stonings and teaching 'gays' to fly plus stonings AnyN !!

All of which shows the danger of letting a country be taken over by religion-based governments.

----------------------------------- as in 'islam' !!

Yep

 

[Lysistrata]

reading through the posts , its this kinda zhit that happens when a country allow Diversity into its borders . It should be a warning to others , especially Americans who are purposely destroying the USA cohesiveness .

Is the U.S.A. cohesive? When did that happen? We have all kinds of religions here, plus those who do not choose to follow a faith.I think that you want to force your particular faith on others..

 

[anynameyouwish]

Most of the 10 commandments are actually UNconstitutional.

Many of the Commandments are admonishments to the Israelites and not considered "laws" at all as far as the Constitution is concerned.

Instructing the Jews to not work on the Sabbath, to not make carved images for worship, not to take the Lord's name in vain, etc. are not matters for Supreme Court review or decisions anymore than taking your hat off indoors or covering your mouth when you cough.

Where do you come up with your bizarre ideas?

me: "most of the 10 commandments are unconstitutional"

you "Where do you come up with your bizarre ideas?"


the 10 commandments

1. You shall have no other Gods but me. (unconstitutional)
   
2. You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.(unconstitutional)
3. You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.(UNconstitutional)
   
4. You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.(unconstitutional)
5. Respect your father and mother.(unconstitutional)
6. You must not commit murder.
7. You must not commit adultery.(tell THAT to trump)
   
8. You must not steal.
9. You must not give false evidence against your neighbour.
10. You must not be envious of your neighbour's goods. You shall not be envious of his house nor his wife, nor anything that belongs to your neighbour.(unconstitutional)

They would be unconstitutional if they were imposed by a government.
Lucky for everyone that the USA doesn't have a state religion.

aha!

STATE religion!

according to conservatives STATES CAN have RELIGION!

so a state can proclaim it is "christian" and proceed to rule via their bible!

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Is the U.S.A. cohesive? When did that happen? We have all kinds of religions here, plus those who do not choose to follow a faith.I think that you want to force your particular faith on others..

It's time for the fascistic authoritarian left to stop pretending the uttering the "J" word in public, as part of a government function or pro forma ceremony, is "forcing" people to become slaves to Christianity against their will.

There are no religion police. No one is being forced to watch Jerry Fallwell broadcasts or say prayers before meals or bedtime while jack booted agents monitor your thoughts.

One single partisan politician in New Zealand took it upon himself to make an issue of this pro forma prayer before parliament in New Zealand. Can someone send me news releases from New Zealand documenting the horrors of enforced Christianity that fell heavy on the shoulders of the 52% of Kiwi citizens not self identifying as Christians.

And if New Zealand is pushing Jesus on it's citizenry how did these 52% of the population get away with not being Christians at all? Who is to blame for that?

This is as stupid as ACLU absolutists who sue to have tiny crosses on remote mountain side memorials torn down and removed to make sure we aren't all tainted by the implicit Christianity it represents.

 

[progressive hunter]

Most of the 10 commandments are actually UNconstitutional.

Many of the Commandments are admonishments to the Israelites and not considered "laws" at all as far as the Constitution is concerned.

Instructing the Jews to not work on the Sabbath, to not make carved images for worship, not to take the Lord's name in vain, etc. are not matters for Supreme Court review or decisions anymore than taking your hat off indoors or covering your mouth when you cough.

Where do you come up with your bizarre ideas?

me: "most of the 10 commandments are unconstitutional"

you "Where do you come up with your bizarre ideas?"


the 10 commandments

1. You shall have no other Gods but me. (unconstitutional)
   
2. You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.(unconstitutional)
3. You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.(UNconstitutional)
   
4. You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.(unconstitutional)
5. Respect your father and mother.(unconstitutional)
6. You must not commit murder.
7. You must not commit adultery.(tell THAT to trump)
   
8. You must not steal.
9. You must not give false evidence against your neighbour.
10. You must not be envious of your neighbour's goods. You shall not be envious of his house nor his wife, nor anything that belongs to your neighbour.(unconstitutional)

They would be unconstitutional if they were imposed by a government.
Lucky for everyone that the USA doesn't have a state religion.

aha!

STATE religion!

according to conservatives STATES CAN have RELIGION!

so a state can proclaim it is "christian" and proceed to rule via their bible!

LIAR!!!

 

[Ridgerunner]

He is a quack. Anyone who thinks the bible is true is a quake and he sure does, line by line. I have studied the bible and cultures for years and this guy is a quack, but hey if you want to listen to him that is your prerogative.

Penelope eyes wide shut...

 

[pismoe]

reading through the posts , its this kinda zhit that happens when a country allow Diversity into its borders . It should be a warning to others , especially Americans who are purposely destroying the USA cohesiveness .

Is the U.S.A. cohesive? When did that happen? We have all kinds of religions here, plus those who do not choose to follow a faith.I think that you want to force your particular faith on others..

------------------------------------------ we were COHESIVE , we were Cohesive as Americans mostly speaking English and being Christian or Judeo Christian . And i'm speaking the 50s through the 80s , maybe early 90s . The more diverse the USA becomes the less cohesive it will be . its simply common sense Lysis .