New Witness...TRAYVON was beating Zimmerman up!

[uptownlivin90]

1. The police told him to stand down, they were on their way.
2. If someone was scaring me and stalking me like that and I was big enough to kick his ass I probably would. I would think Zimmerman was trying to rob me.
3. Why didn't this neighborhood watch person just carry pepper spray or a stun gun.
4. Are people not allowed to walk around at 7:00 on a Sunday night in that neighborhood? What reason did Zimmerman give that he thought that he needed to stop and detain Treyvon and didn't want him to keep going? Wouldn't that be unlawfully restraining someone, or keeping someone against their will? Especially if you are carrying a deadly weapon? He should be charged with that and at least manslaughter. Where is the common sense in Florida?

No they did not 911 operators told him that they didn't need him to chase Trayvon. That was not the same as being ordered not to do something by law enforcement. 911 operators are not law enforcement. It is a 40 hour a week job with dental benefits and no real expertise needed.

 

[Si modo]

1. The police told him to stand down, they were on their way.
2. If someone was scaring me and stalking me like that and I was big enough to kick his ass I probably would. I would think Zimmerman was trying to rob me.
3. Why didn't this neighborhood watch person just carry pepper spray or a stun gun.
4. Are people not allowed to walk around at 7:00 on a Sunday night in that neighborhood? What reason did Zimmerman give that he thought that he needed to stop and detain Treyvon and didn't want him to keep going? Wouldn't that be unlawfully restraining someone, or keeping someone against their will? Especially if you are carrying a deadly weapon? He should be charged with that and at least manslaughter. Where is the common sense in Florida?

1. No, the police did not. The 911 operator didn't, either.

2. If you did that in Florida, you might want to consider whether he is carrying, too.

3. Because he had a carry permit and he can carry. And, he wasn't on watch at the time.

4. a. Yes, they are allowed.

b. He told the cops the kid was acting suspicious, maybe on drugs.

c. There is no evidence that Zimmerman detained Martin.

d. It might be unlawfully restraining, if Zimmerman did it. There is no evidence that Zimmerman did.

e. If it is manslaughter, they will press the charges.

f. It's the law in Florida, so to change it, the Florida legislature needs to do that, not the court.

 

[Vidi]

There are two narratives in this case.

Narrative A ( Racist Zimmerman kills Black Kid story ): Zimmerman left his car, approached Martin and shot him dead.

Narrative B ( Zimmermans own self defense story ) Zimmerman left his car, martin ran, Zimmerman gave chase but lost Martin, started back for his car but was attacked my Martin, then shot Martin dead.

In BOTH narratives, under the law, Zimmerman is a murderer. In fact, the Stand Your Ground law can ONLY be applied to narrative B and even then ONLY to Martin as Zimmerman gave chase.

Remember, Zimmerman himself says that Trayvon ran away.

Zimmerman told dispatchers the person he spotted was coming toward him, and then, moments later, he said the person was running.

Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's story may not hold up to scrutiny

even articles defending Zimmerman give the same story:

From the call released by the Sanford Police:

At 2:07, Zimmerman tells the dispatcher, “He’s running.”

At 2:09, you can hear a car door open and an alarm begins that is undoubtedly the “door open, keys in ignition” warning on Zimmerman’s truck.

At 2:13, you can clearly hear the car door slamming shut, and the alarm stops.

At 2:17, Zimmerman’s voice wobbles and he starts breathing heavily into the phone, indicating that he has started running.

At 2:22, without any prompting other than the aforementioned noises and breathing, the dispatcher asks “Are you following him?” to which Zimmerman responds, “Yeah.”

At 2:26, the dispatcher says, “Okay, we don’t need you to do that,” to which Zimmerman responds, “Okay.”

Zimmerman proceeds to give the dispatcher his name. Then he says, “He ran.”

Zimmerman can still be heard breathing into the phone until about 2:39, at which point the heavy breathing stops entirely, a mere 13 seconds after the dispatcher asked him to stop following. A very calm and collected Zimmerman then proceeds to give the dispatcher his own information, directions and a description of his location for another 1 minute and 33 seconds.


Read more: 911 call shows Zimmerman stopped following Martin after dispatcher

The FACT that Zimmerman RAN/CHASED after Trayvon, not just followed, gives Trayvon the protection of the Stand Your Ground law, as George Zimmerman then presented a direct threat to his person.

Which, under the Stand Your Ground law, makes George Zimmerman a murderer.

Trayvon ran and got away according to zimmerman when he returned he was no longer protected by stand your ground.

No. We don't know where Trayvon was at that point. Hiding in a bush? Behind a tree? Up the street at a neighbors house?

We don't know.

All we know is: George Zimmerman gave chase.

Now think about that for a moment...from Martins perspective.

Here's this guy...not a cop...chasing him. Is he between Martin and safety?

Think!

What was it that George Zimmerman saw? What did Trayvon Martin see?

Trayvon was walking down the street, hood up, talking to his girlfriend on a Bluetooth earpiece.

How did that look to Zimmerman?

With the hoodie up, there's no seeing the earpiece. So Trayvon is some guy walking down the street talking to himself. Hence, Zimmermans statement that Trayvon appeared to be "on drugs"

But from Trayvons side?

Here's this guy following him. Why? So Trayvon runs and Zimmerman runs after him.

Can anyone running after you be up to good? HELL NO.

At that point, the Stand Your Ground law relieves Martin of the requirement to retreat.

In fact, one of the arguments FOR the stand your ground law was that a person could not instigate a fight and if it escalated be relieved of responsibility under Stand Your Ground. George Zimmerman made a mistake giving chase, but that gave Martin the LEGAL RIGHT to use whatever force neccessary to defend himself.

And though George Zimmermans story may be 100% accurate, under the law, he is guilty of murder.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

1. The police told him to stand down, they were on their way.
2. If someone was scaring me and stalking me like that and I was big enough to kick his ass I probably would. I would think Zimmerman was trying to rob me.
3. Why didn't this neighborhood watch person just carry pepper spray or a stun gun.
4. Are people not allowed to walk around at 7:00 on a Sunday night in that neighborhood? What reason did Zimmerman give that he thought that he needed to stop and detain Treyvon and didn't want him to keep going? Wouldn't that be unlawfully restraining someone, or keeping someone against their will? Especially if you are carrying a deadly weapon? He should be charged with that and at least manslaughter. Where is the common sense in Florida?

1. The police told him to stand down, they were on their way.

Nope the police did not. A dispatcher is not the police nor can they give lawful orders.

2. If someone was scaring me and stalking me like that and I was big enough to kick his ass I probably would. I would think Zimmerman was trying to rob me.

If Trayvon was so scared why didn't he call 911 or at least his father? Who does he call? His girlfriend that was in another town at the time.

3. Why didn't this neighborhood watch person just carry pepper spray or a stun gun.

He was not on watch that night he was going to the store. Are you saying he cam't lawfully carry a gun with him?

Where is the common sense in Florida?

You have none and if you did you lost it.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

There are two narratives in this case.

Narrative A ( Racist Zimmerman kills Black Kid story ): Zimmerman left his car, approached Martin and shot him dead.

Narrative B ( Zimmermans own self defense story ) Zimmerman left his car, martin ran, Zimmerman gave chase but lost Martin, started back for his car but was attacked my Martin, then shot Martin dead.

In BOTH narratives, under the law, Zimmerman is a murderer. In fact, the Stand Your Ground law can ONLY be applied to narrative B and even then ONLY to Martin as Zimmerman gave chase.

Remember, Zimmerman himself says that Trayvon ran away.





even articles defending Zimmerman give the same story:






The FACT that Zimmerman RAN/CHASED after Trayvon, not just followed, gives Trayvon the protection of the Stand Your Ground law, as George Zimmerman then presented a direct threat to his person.

Which, under the Stand Your Ground law, makes George Zimmerman a murderer.

Trayvon ran and got away according to zimmerman when he returned he was no longer protected by stand your ground.

No. We don't know where Trayvon was at that point. Hiding in a bush? Behind a tree? Up the street at a neighbors house?

We don't know.

All we know is: George Zimmerman gave chase.

Now think about that for a moment...from Martins perspective.

Here's this guy...not a cop...chasing him. Is he between Martin and safety?

Think!

What was it that George Zimmerman saw? What did Trayvon Martin see?

Trayvon was walking down the street, hood up, talking to his girlfriend on a Bluetooth earpiece.

How did that look to Zimmerman?

With the hoodie up, there's no seeing the earpiece. So Trayvon is some guy walking down the street talking to himself. Hence, Zimmermans statement that Trayvon appeared to be "on drugs"

But from Trayvons side?

Here's this guy following him. Why? So Trayvon runs and Zimmerman runs after him.

Can anyone running after you be up to good? HELL NO.

At that point, the Stand Your Ground law relieves Martin of the requirement to retreat.

In fact, one of the arguments FOR the stand your ground law was that a person could not instigate a fight and if it escalated be relieved of responsibility under Stand Your Ground. George Zimmerman made a mistake giving chase, but that gave Martin the LEGAL RIGHT to use whatever force neccessary to defend himself.

And though George Zimmermans story may be 100% accurate, under the law, he is guilty of murder.

Think what you want to I am not repeating everything I have said so I will have to repeat it to someone else and then someone else. I have discussed the facts about this case it looks like it would finally break through to some of the lynch mob. But stupid is thick there I guess,

 

[Vidi]

1. The police told him to stand down, they were on their way.
2. If someone was scaring me and stalking me like that and I was big enough to kick his ass I probably would. I would think Zimmerman was trying to rob me.
3. Why didn't this neighborhood watch person just carry pepper spray or a stun gun.
4. Are people not allowed to walk around at 7:00 on a Sunday night in that neighborhood? What reason did Zimmerman give that he thought that he needed to stop and detain Treyvon and didn't want him to keep going? Wouldn't that be unlawfully restraining someone, or keeping someone against their will? Especially if you are carrying a deadly weapon? He should be charged with that and at least manslaughter. Where is the common sense in Florida?

No they did not 911 operators told him that they didn't need him to chase Trayvon. That was not the same as being ordered not to do something by law enforcement. 911 operators are not law enforcement. It is a 40 hour a week job with dental benefits and no real expertise needed.

Absolutely correct.

At no time in the released 911 tape, did the 911 operator actually tell George Zimmerman to stop or stand down. The phrase used was: " ok we don't need you to do that. "

 

[IndependntLogic]

PS...IL you've been outed as a liar. You might want to regroup now.

But I predict you will proclaim victory, that's what the house liars usually do after they've been busted repeatedly.

There is no victory. I am not an expert in Florida Law. I did not lie but you did. I said "my understanding is there was a 13 year old boy who contradicted...". But whackjobs just go bezerk over anything they can. Hysterics, you know. Not saying that's you in particular - I'll let you and our laughing audience decide...
FOX news headline was "Witness Contradicts Zimmerman"
So is FOX a liar? nah. You're just emotional and obssessed with somehow proving me to be "wrong" about something somehow. Obssession is a loely thing. This is why you have come into over a dozen threads and on your very first post, commented on nothing but me. Nothing on topics or issues - just me. Do you deny this? Want me to prove it with links?

 

[koshergrl]

You keep asking me if I want you to prove it with links, and I keep telling you to go ahead.

Start out with what I lied about. Quotes and links. You're irritatingly vague...but habitual liars always are.

 

[theliq]

1. The police told him to stand down, they were on their way.
2. If someone was scaring me and stalking me like that and I was big enough to kick his ass I probably would. I would think Zimmerman was trying to rob me.
3. Why didn't this neighborhood watch person just carry pepper spray or a stun gun.
4. Are people not allowed to walk around at 7:00 on a Sunday night in that neighborhood? What reason did Zimmerman give that he thought that he needed to stop and detain Treyvon and didn't want him to keep going? Wouldn't that be unlawfully restraining someone, or keeping someone against their will? Especially if you are carrying a deadly weapon? He should be charged with that and at least manslaughter. Where is the common sense in Florida?

No they did not 911 operators told him that they didn't need him to chase Trayvon. That was not the same as being ordered not to do something by law enforcement. 911 operators are not law enforcement. It is a 40 hour a week job with dental benefits and no real expertise needed.

...ALL THESE POSTS...THE BOY WAS MURDERED..............ZIMMERMAN SHOULD BE SITTING ON DEATH ROW......BUT THE US is crazy having gun laws like they do...as I personally wouldn't let anyone carry more than a matchstick.

Why because there are too many nutters around............SAY NO TO GUNS,AUSTRALIA DOES FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION........................But then were see this as being CIVIL ized............I await the Gun Lobby Wailing.......steve

 

[uptownlivin90]

1. The police told him to stand down, they were on their way.
2. If someone was scaring me and stalking me like that and I was big enough to kick his ass I probably would. I would think Zimmerman was trying to rob me.
3. Why didn't this neighborhood watch person just carry pepper spray or a stun gun.
4. Are people not allowed to walk around at 7:00 on a Sunday night in that neighborhood? What reason did Zimmerman give that he thought that he needed to stop and detain Treyvon and didn't want him to keep going? Wouldn't that be unlawfully restraining someone, or keeping someone against their will? Especially if you are carrying a deadly weapon? He should be charged with that and at least manslaughter. Where is the common sense in Florida?

No they did not 911 operators told him that they didn't need him to chase Trayvon. That was not the same as being ordered not to do something by law enforcement. 911 operators are not law enforcement. It is a 40 hour a week job with dental benefits and no real expertise needed.

...ALL THESE POSTS...THE BOY WAS MURDERED..............ZIMMERMAN SHOULD BE SITTING ON DEATH ROW......BUT THE US is crazy having gun laws like they do...as I personally wouldn't let anyone carry more than a matchstick.

Why because there are too many nutters around............SAY NO TO GUNS,AUSTRALIA DOES FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION........................But then were see this as being CIVIL ized............I await the Gun Lobby Wailing.......steve

You're an idiot.

This has nothing to do with guns and gun laws.

The gun couldn't have killed Trayvon Martin on its own. It was the way it was used, responsibly or irresponsibly by Mr. Zimmerman.

The Stand Your Ground Law in the state of Florida is what needs to be investigated, not gun laws. Gun laws don't make it okay for people to use guns how ever they feel like using them. That's why we have other laws that legislate how guns can and should be used. The US Constitution gives it's citizens the right to protect themselves against tyranny and people who would take advantage of them or do them harm with firarms (as well as hunt). It does not give them the right to use said firearms to murder or harm anyone else unjustly. Except for MAYBE in the State of Florida, however in Florida's case it is not their GUN laws that are in question... but their self-defense laws.

Stop trying to use this tragedy to further your bullcrap political agenda.

 

[Vidi]

1. The police told him to stand down, they were on their way.
2. If someone was scaring me and stalking me like that and I was big enough to kick his ass I probably would. I would think Zimmerman was trying to rob me.
3. Why didn't this neighborhood watch person just carry pepper spray or a stun gun.
4. Are people not allowed to walk around at 7:00 on a Sunday night in that neighborhood? What reason did Zimmerman give that he thought that he needed to stop and detain Treyvon and didn't want him to keep going? Wouldn't that be unlawfully restraining someone, or keeping someone against their will? Especially if you are carrying a deadly weapon? He should be charged with that and at least manslaughter. Where is the common sense in Florida?

No they did not 911 operators told him that they didn't need him to chase Trayvon. That was not the same as being ordered not to do something by law enforcement. 911 operators are not law enforcement. It is a 40 hour a week job with dental benefits and no real expertise needed.

...ALL THESE POSTS...THE BOY WAS MURDERED..............ZIMMERMAN SHOULD BE SITTING ON DEATH ROW......BUT THE US is crazy having gun laws like they do...as I personally wouldn't let anyone carry more than a matchstick.

Why because there are too many nutters around............SAY NO TO GUNS,AUSTRALIA DOES FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION........................But then were see this as being CIVIL ized............I await the Gun Lobby Wailing.......steve

Keep waiting.

The anti gun lobby has been extremely quiet in all of this because they know that this incident is not about the gun.

 

[Ravi]

There are two narratives in this case.

Narrative A ( Racist Zimmerman kills Black Kid story ): Zimmerman left his car, approached Martin and shot him dead.

Narrative B ( Zimmermans own self defense story ) Zimmerman left his car, martin ran, Zimmerman gave chase but lost Martin, started back for his car but was attacked my Martin, then shot Martin dead.

In BOTH narratives, under the law, Zimmerman is a murderer. In fact, the Stand Your Ground law can ONLY be applied to narrative B and even then ONLY to Martin as Zimmerman gave chase.

Remember, Zimmerman himself says that Trayvon ran away.

Zimmerman told dispatchers the person he spotted was coming toward him, and then, moments later, he said the person was running.

Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's story may not hold up to scrutiny

even articles defending Zimmerman give the same story:

From the call released by the Sanford Police:

At 2:07, Zimmerman tells the dispatcher, “He’s running.”

At 2:09, you can hear a car door open and an alarm begins that is undoubtedly the “door open, keys in ignition” warning on Zimmerman’s truck.

At 2:13, you can clearly hear the car door slamming shut, and the alarm stops.

At 2:17, Zimmerman’s voice wobbles and he starts breathing heavily into the phone, indicating that he has started running.

At 2:22, without any prompting other than the aforementioned noises and breathing, the dispatcher asks “Are you following him?” to which Zimmerman responds, “Yeah.”

At 2:26, the dispatcher says, “Okay, we don’t need you to do that,” to which Zimmerman responds, “Okay.”

Zimmerman proceeds to give the dispatcher his name. Then he says, “He ran.”

Zimmerman can still be heard breathing into the phone until about 2:39, at which point the heavy breathing stops entirely, a mere 13 seconds after the dispatcher asked him to stop following. A very calm and collected Zimmerman then proceeds to give the dispatcher his own information, directions and a description of his location for another 1 minute and 33 seconds.


Read more: 911 call shows Zimmerman stopped following Martin after dispatcher

The FACT that Zimmerman RAN/CHASED after Trayvon, not just followed, gives Trayvon the protection of the Stand Your Ground law, as George Zimmerman then presented a direct threat to his person.

Which, under the Stand Your Ground law, makes George Zimmerman a murderer.

Isn't it odd that he left his keys in his car and at the same time he was worried about thefts in the neighborhood.

 

[Emma]

Sorry but we do know that he followed Trayvon. We are going by what he said. Now if we are to go by what he said at that point we should also go with what he said when the dispatcher said he did not need to follow Trayvon and that was OK.

How long after that point did the fight/shooting take place?

 

[Emma]

Sorry but we do know that he followed Trayvon. We are going by what he said. Now if we are to go by what he said at that point we should also go with what he said when the dispatcher said he did not need to follow Trayvon and that was OK.

Oh yes, I know he initially did.

I thought he was referring to following after he said he lost him, and the 911 operator told him he didn't need to follow him.

Let's try to keep what we say factually correct, and not be like the less than factual emotionally charged lynch mob.

Then explain how the fight and shooting took place off-street, halfway up that courtyard. Explain why instead of meeting the police at the mailboxes/clubhouse (from where he initially called), he changed his mind and told the dispatcher to have the officer call him on his cell and he'd tell them where he was. If he wasn't following Martin, that is.

 

[Emma]

Once again. For the 15th time, since you're slow.

We don't know that he followed Trayvon. There's no evidence that he did. His statement is that he didn't.

Actually, if you look at the layout of where Trayvon was shot, you'd see that it was a sidewalk that went up the backside of the buildings, with NO ROAD. He said he'd followed him in his car, but in order for the car to get to where Trayvon was shot, you'd also see tire tracks on the grass.

Nope, sorry, he did follow Trayvon.

Are you talking about this map?
Here’s an estimate of Trayvon’s route back to Brandy Green’s townhouse with 911 call times included

A – The Clubhouse for Retreat at Twin Lakes.
B – Community mailboxes.
C – Where George Zimmerman parked his truck.
D – Brandy Green’s Townhouse, where Trayvon was staying.
E – Zimmerman stopped and completed his 911 call for approximately eighty seconds.
F – The fight and shooting took place in this area.
G – Eyewitness “John’s” townhouse.

The police report puts them behind 2821 Retreat View Circle, which is farther up in that courtyard.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Oh yes, I know he initially did.

I thought he was referring to following after he said he lost him, and the 911 operator told him he didn't need to follow him.

Let's try to keep what we say factually correct, and not be like the less than factual emotionally charged lynch mob.

Then explain how the fight and shooting took place off-street, halfway up that courtyard. Explain why instead of meeting the police at the mailboxes/clubhouse (from where he initially called), he changed his mind and told the dispatcher to have the officer call him on his cell and he'd tell them where he was. If he wasn't following Martin, that is.

How many times must I explain it over and over and over?

According to the evidence and statements. Zimmerman turns rights off of retreat view circle onto the cut through at twin trees here's a map to look at
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl

Now here's another map that you can trace the estimated route
http://www.wagist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/martin_1000.jpg

A – The Clubhouse for Retreat at Twin Lakes.
B – Community mailboxes.
C – Where George Zimmerman parked his truck.
D – Brandy Green’s Townhouse, where Trayvon was staying.
E – Zimmerman stopped and completed his 911 call for approximately eighty seconds.
F – The fight and shooting took place in this area.
G – Eyewitness “John’s” townhouse.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Actually, if you look at the layout of where Trayvon was shot, you'd see that it was a sidewalk that went up the backside of the buildings, with NO ROAD. He said he'd followed him in his car, but in order for the car to get to where Trayvon was shot, you'd also see tire tracks on the grass.

Nope, sorry, he did follow Trayvon.

Are you talking about this map?
Here’s an estimate of Trayvon’s route back to Brandy Green’s townhouse with 911 call times included

A – The Clubhouse for Retreat at Twin Lakes.
B – Community mailboxes.
C – Where George Zimmerman parked his truck.
D – Brandy Green’s Townhouse, where Trayvon was staying.
E – Zimmerman stopped and completed his 911 call for approximately eighty seconds.
F – The fight and shooting took place in this area.
G – Eyewitness “John’s” townhouse.

The police report puts them behind 2821 Retreat View Circle, which is farther up in that courtyard.

Zimmerman truck was parked at the cut through twin trees. Do you remember he said he was on a cut through in the audio?

 

[Vidi]

If the placement of F is correct, then Zimmerman is lying. There's no concrete there for Martin to slam Zimmermans head into.

 

[Uncensored2008]

If the placement of F is correct, then Zimmerman is lying. There's no concrete there for Martin to slam Zimmermans head into.

Other than the concrete sidewalk....

Yer not the sharpest marshmallow in the bag, comrade.

 

[Vidi]

If the placement of F is correct, then Zimmerman is lying. There's no concrete there for Martin to slam Zimmermans head into.

Other than the concrete sidewalk....

Yer not the sharpest marshmallow in the bag, comrade.

Open your eyes, Helen Keller. That side walk is forty feet from the F oval.

If Zimmermans story is true, then it's placement is wrong. If its placement is correct, then Zimmerman is lying.