New study tells us what we already knew

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Almost half of wage earners pay zero income tax. Is that really even controversia?

More than 40% of U.S. households will owe no federal income tax, down from last year, according to a new analysis

More than 72 million American households will pay no federal income taxes this year, marking a large decline from last year, the Tax Policy Center said.

www.cnbc.com

I guess CNBC is lying again. Fucking media.….

They pay all the other taxes.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

It's not ethical or morally correct to try and steal other people's money or tell them what to do with it.

Depends. Taxation is not theft.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

It's not ethical or morally correct to try and steal other people's money or tell them what to do with it.

Taxation is not theft. To refuse to pay taxation is theft

 

[DukeU]

Depends. Taxation is not theft.

Over taxation is.

 

[DukeU]

Taxation is not theft. To refuse to pay taxation is theft

It is when they are spending the money on things that the tax payers don't want.

Tax money is collected supposedly to benefit the taxpayer.

Gender studies in Pakistan doesn't benefit U.S. taxpayers.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

It is when they are spending the money on things that the tax payers don't want.

Tax money is collected supposedly to benefit the taxpayer.

Gender studies in Pakistan doesn't benefit U.S. taxpayers.

Then taxpayer's response should be to vote in reps.

 

[DukeU]

Then taxpayer's response should be to vote in reps.

And stop rigged elections that result in more stolen money.

 

[Couchpotato]

They pay all the other taxes.

Ok but that's not what's being discussed here so that seems rather irrelevant.

 

[Couchpotato]

Depends. Taxation is not theft.

It's just legal theft. The Government is taking something without the consent of the owner at the point of a gun. Any other instance of that happening is called?

 

[Couchpotato]

They don't earn wages.
and
They don't pay any of the 7.5% the actual wage earner pays.

Sure they do they just dont earn enough to pay taxes on, or they qualify for earned income credits or some other "loophole" which precludes them from paying taxes. All of which are fine, the problem is the OP is acting like the poor are shouldering the burden of the income tax in the US and that tax cuts should be aimed at them. That couldn't be further from the truth of course.

 

[Rigby5]

In a progressive tax system, "the rich" pay the vast majority of the taxes. So why wouldn't they receive the majority of a tax cut?

The reason "the rich" do not "pay the vast majority of the taxes" is because there are so few of them, and they have caused so many loopholes the tax regulations.

While it is true the poor do not pay much or anything in taxes, the middle class does and they pay the majority of the taxes, not "the rich". If "the rich" pay a lot of taxes, they have to either be very ignorant, or philanthropic.

 

[Rigby5]

The question I have is....why are we cutting taxes when we are in deficit ?

We should certainly be cutting spending. But we should not be cutting taxes.

Not saying this is the case now, but sometimes an argument can be made that cutting taxes can stimulate new production that result in higher tax revenue.

 

[Andylusion]

Well we kind of are. It's not a bad thing. It's always been the case.

I guess I'm confused. How are we separated by socio economic class?

I see people moving up and down the economic ladder all the time, unless they decide to stay where they are.

I had a co-worker that decided to tile his kitchen, and then invite his neighbors over to show off his work. He told them if anyone was interested to let him know, and he would give them a quote. Soon he was making more money on the weekend, than at his full time job.

No came by and said "Sorry you can't do that, because you are in the wrong socio economic class.".

And I had another co-worker years ago, who was taking one college class a semester, because he was paying his own way through, and couldn't afford more. He's now an executive at a fortune 500 company that every person here would know if I said the name.

No showed up, telling him he was in the wrong economic class to do that.

The people who segregate themselves, do so by choice. If you stay working as a burger flipper, that's a choice.

 

[Andylusion]

The reason "the rich" do not "pay the vast majority of the taxes" is because there are so few of them, and they have caused so many loopholes the tax regulations.

While it is true the poor do not pay much or anything in taxes, the middle class does and they pay the majority of the taxes, not "the rich". If "the rich" pay a lot of taxes, they have to either be very ignorant, or philanthropic.

No the middle class does not. The rich pay nearly all taxes.

The top 1% pay nearly 40% of all taxes. And the top 25% pay nearly 90% of all taxes.

The middle class barely pays hardly any taxes. And the bottom 50% pays almost none.

 

[Rigby5]

Can you show me where that is written ?

Or is this just your opinion ?

BTW: What is "moral" taxation ? Can you give an example please ?

The same with "ethical" taxation. How is that defined ?

That should be obvious.
If you need something to help your business, like a grain elevator, harbor, university, canal, airport, etc., then when it is built for you, you then not only owe for the benefit you got from it, but also it is a clear ethical obligation.
"Ethical taxation" is where those who benefit the most from social services then owe back the most in taxes from those benefits they received.

 

[Rigby5]

Trump did that... Is he the Left?

Actually Trump was good at not just devaluing currency by printing money.
He had to do it a little due to covid, but he cut military and foreign spending instead.
For example, getting out of Afghanistan.

 

[Dadoalex]

Sure they do they just dont earn enough to pay taxes on, or they qualify for earned income credits or some other "loophole" which precludes them from paying taxes. All of which are fine, the problem is the OP is acting like the poor are shouldering the burden of the income tax in the US and that tax cuts should be aimed at them. That couldn't be further from the truth of course.

A guy who works for a living and earns $100 pays $7.50 for Medicare and SS.
A guy who is a capitalist earns $100 and pays exactly zero for SS and Medicare.

Off the top the capitalist gets a 7.5% tax break.
FOR NOT WORKING

Risk you say?
Guy works 2 weeks at a restaurant then waits a week to finally be paid.
Same guy buys lunch at work and pays out of pocket
Employer takes 2 weeks of labor, gets paid for 10 meals and puts out nothing.

Risk you say?

 

[Rigby5]

It's just legal theft. The Government is taking something without the consent of the owner at the point of a gun. Any other instance of that happening is called?

Wrong.
Taxation is what we all want and vote for, like defense, safety, fire fighting, utilities, public schools, transportation systems, etc.
These things benefit us all and are well worth the investment.

 

[Rigby5]

Sure they do they just dont earn enough to pay taxes on, or they qualify for earned income credits or some other "loophole" which precludes them from paying taxes. All of which are fine, the problem is the OP is acting like the poor are shouldering the burden of the income tax in the US and that tax cuts should be aimed at them. That couldn't be further from the truth of course.

While it is true the poor pay little if any taxes, it is also true the wealthy tend to pay less tax % than the middle class.
There are so many exemptions and loopholes for the very wealthy, it would be foolish for them to pay more than the 20% capital gains rate.
While the middle class usually pays more than 20%.

 

[Rigby5]

I guess I'm confused. How are we separated by socio economic class?

I see people moving up and down the economic ladder all the time, unless they decide to stay where they are.

I had a co-worker that decided to tile his kitchen, and then invite his neighbors over to show off his work. He told them if anyone was interested to let him know, and he would give them a quote. Soon he was making more money on the weekend, than at his full time job.

No came by and said "Sorry you can't do that, because you are in the wrong socio economic class.".

And I had another co-worker years ago, who was taking one college class a semester, because he was paying his own way through, and couldn't afford more. He's now an executive at a fortune 500 company that every person here would know if I said the name.

No showed up, telling him he was in the wrong economic class to do that.

The people who segregate themselves, do so by choice. If you stay working as a burger flipper, that's a choice.

Wrong.
Your examples are where people moved up the economic ladder by labor.
That is still all middle class and irrelevant.
The main socioeconomic barrier is when you have enough capital to invest so that you no longer have to exert any physical effort any more.
For example, I discovered that being a landlord means you get renters to buy houses for you, and you get huge tax depreciation allowances you did not deserve or earn.

I started as a landlord by working on low income properties, but they quickly allowed me to not be hands on any more if I did not want to be.
Once you have an upper class advantage, you no longer have to work or produce anymore.
That is an entirely different socioeconomic class from the middle class.