New poll shows strong anti-Arab sentiment among Israeli Jews

[Dogmaphobe]

But in the interest of fair/balanced, I think you misinterpreted her comment. Don't think it was about USMB at all. More about her general impression of the Israeli/American/World dialogue about the general tensions between Arab and Jews not getting about enough exposure. Or from her perspective at least -- Jewish "innate" bias against Arabs.

.

Have you ever considered applying that much touted fairness and balance to me? I have yet to see any. Ever.

The fact remains that she made a false claim. Nobody ANYWHERE is prevented from discussing this issue even if countless antisemitic hate sites make the claim that having one's antisemitism challenged somehow stifles them. I find this especially ironic when such claims arise from those who are in the very business of stifling others, themselves.

Even with your overly generous interpretation that it merely the notion that Jews are bigots that is getting too little exposure, good grief, man, you must think she is incredibly naïve not to realize that the vast majority of the world press already paints this very picture.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: New poll shows strong anti-Arab sentiment among Israeli Jews
⁜→ Dogmaphobe, flacaltenn, et al,

Yeah, I think you have missed the underlying prejudice here.

But in the interest of fair/balanced, I think you misinterpreted her comment. Don't think it was about USMB at all. More about her general impression of the Israeli/American/World dialogue about the general tensions between Arab and Jews not getting about enough exposure. Or from her perspective at least -- Jewish "innate" bias against Arabs.

Have you ever considered applying that much touted fairness and balance to me? I have yet to see any. Ever.

The fact remains that she made a false claim. Nobody ANYWHERE is prevented from discussing this issue even if countless antisemitic hate sites make the claim that having one's antisemitism challenged somehow stifles them. I find this especially ironic when such claims arise from those who are in the very business of stifling others, themselves.

Even with your overly generous interpretation that it merely the notion that Jews are bigots that is getting too little exposure, good grief, man, you must think she is incredibly naïve not to realize that the vast majority of the world press already paints this very picture.

(COMMENT)

You have the right to your opinion. And as long as it is presented in a civil tone and in a non-ad hominem way, you are entitled to express that opinion. It is what we call a "negative right." A negative right only requires others to abstain from interfering with your actions.

Anti-semitism is a form of hostility, an active-ad hominem to or prejudice against Jews; simply because they are Jews. You want to globally amplify the theme that Jews are intolerant toward those holding different opinions, which is an over-expansion when it is not accurate. Jews understand that there are many around the world that oppose the Jewish National Home and all it stands for; which includes the "fact" that is is the most developed nation in the Middle East. It is not only rated above all its immediate neighbors in the region, but is rated above all 22 members of the Arab League.

Jews are not "bigots." There is nothing wrong at all with defending against an all-inclusive, cultural-wide, condemnation as is done regularly. And those that openly attack Israel should be prepared for push-back.

In the near recent times, much todo has been made about the Arab Palestinians and the right they assume in killing Jews, without consequence. This is a concept that has been outlawed since the late 1930's (Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism). But you don't see, but a few, in the UN that looks at the law and apply it. The "bigot" is NOT Israel or the Jews. The "bigotry" is presented by the world leaders that don't speak out against those that support the Arab Palestinians. We have not seen the likes of which since the "Kristallnacht" and the persecution under the color of law. Yet, that is what is being done yet again by those that think they are so rightous, that not only do they manipulate the law against Israel, they also openly advocate terrorist action against the Jews ("by all available means, including armed struggle" A/RES/3246 (XXIX), and "by all available means, particularly armed struggle" A/RES/33/24 √). For more than 40 years, the world that has painted Israel with the stripes of bigotry, also knows that the Role of Law (RoL) condemns all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage breaches of the peace. It is prohibited by law to incite terrorist act or acts (See: S/RES/1624√)
→and threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression (See: A/RES/2/110) prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts (See: S/RES/1624). The next time you hear some Holier-Then-Thou → Arab terrorist support hypocrites claim bigotry against the Jews, just remind them that it was they that really set the standard for intentionally targeting unarmed civilians → and then turn around and thump their chest like they were real heroes.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Coyote]

Bigotry is by definition an unreasonable hatred and no culture or group is free of that.

So let me ask you a question. Do you think that the Jewish people have been subjected to an unusual, unique, or particularly special bigotry in scope, length and pervasiveness?

Yes they have.

 

[Coyote]

Interestingly, in that Pew poll, for Arab CITIZENS of Israel -- the negative opinion of Jews weighed in at about only 35%... THAT also is more significant than any of the questions asked in the poll from the OP...

After sleeping on it, and thinking about polls - you're right. The OP is a crappy poll on which to base the OP. I'll take the slapping I deserve over it. But I will not concede my original point. I should have gone straight to PEW because they are a solid source, and PEW does support my point about discrimmination. For example: Israel’s Religiously Divided Society

Social divisions within Israeli society may be connected to perceptions of discrimination. Roughly eight-in-ten Arabs (79%) say there is a lot of discrimination against Muslims in Israel today, while just 21% of Israeli Jews share this view....

The survey also asked about personal experiences with discrimination. About one-in-six Muslims say they have been questioned by security officials (17%), prevented from traveling (15%) or physically threatened or attacked (15%) because of their religion in the past 12 months, while 13% say they have suffered property damage. All told, 37% of Muslims say they have suffered at least one of these forms of discrimination because of their religious identity in the past year.8


The survey also asked about positive interactions. About a quarter of Israeli Muslims (26%) say a Jewish person has expressed concern or sympathy toward them in the past year because of their religious identity. And 15% of Christians and 18% of Druze say a Jewish person has expressed sympathy toward them in the last 12 months.

 

[Coyote]

If it is a canard, why does it happen HERE Shusha? Why are certain things out of bounds when it comes talking about Israel but not with any other country?

Um. It happens here because this is a festering cauldron of anti-semtism?!

Nothing is out of bounds for discussion. I'm just labelling it for what it is. If you choose not to engage because I've called you out on your anti-semitism (general you here, not specifc you) who is shutting down the conversation? Hint: its you.

Um yes. There is. As well as a festering cauldren of antiMuslimism and racism but you would have venture outside Ip to see that. It doesnt make any topics off the table. Going by conversations HERE Israel can do no wrong in the eyes its supporters (and yes the converse is true, it can do no right in the eyes of its detractors).

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Interestingly, in that Pew poll, for Arab CITIZENS of Israel -- the negative opinion of Jews weighed in at about only 35%... THAT also is more significant than any of the questions asked in the poll from the OP...

After sleeping on it, and thinking about polls - you're right. The OP is a crappy poll on which to base the OP. I'll take the slapping I deserve over it. But I will not concede my original point. I should have gone straight to PEW because they are a solid source, and PEW does support my point about discrimmination. For example: Israel’s Religiously Divided Society

Social divisions within Israeli society may be connected to perceptions of discrimination. Roughly eight-in-ten Arabs (79%) say there is a lot of discrimination against Muslims in Israel today, while just 21% of Israeli Jews share this view....

The survey also asked about personal experiences with discrimination. About one-in-six Muslims say they have been questioned by security officials (17%), prevented from traveling (15%) or physically threatened or attacked (15%) because of their religion in the past 12 months, while 13% say they have suffered property damage. All told, 37% of Muslims say they have suffered at least one of these forms of discrimination because of their religious identity in the past year.8


The survey also asked about positive interactions. About a quarter of Israeli Muslims (26%) say a Jewish person has expressed concern or sympathy toward them in the past year because of their religious identity. And 15% of Christians and 18% of Druze say a Jewish person has expressed sympathy toward them in the last 12 months.

You went looking for something with which to tar Jews and you found it.

Nothing really new there.

 

[Coyote]

RE: New poll shows strong anti-Arab sentiment among Israeli Jews
⁜→ Dogmaphobe, flacaltenn, et al,

Yeah, I think you have missed the underlying prejudice here.

But in the interest of fair/balanced, I think you misinterpreted her comment. Don't think it was about USMB at all. More about her general impression of the Israeli/American/World dialogue about the general tensions between Arab and Jews not getting about enough exposure. Or from her perspective at least -- Jewish "innate" bias against Arabs.

Have you ever considered applying that much touted fairness and balance to me? I have yet to see any. Ever.

The fact remains that she made a false claim. Nobody ANYWHERE is prevented from discussing this issue even if countless antisemitic hate sites make the claim that having one's antisemitism challenged somehow stifles them. I find this especially ironic when such claims arise from those who are in the very business of stifling others, themselves.

Even with your overly generous interpretation that it merely the notion that Jews are bigots that is getting too little exposure, good grief, man, you must think she is incredibly naïve not to realize that the vast majority of the world press already paints this very picture.

(COMMENT)

You have the right to your opinion. And as long as it is presented in a civil tone and in a non-ad hominem way, you are entitled to express that opinion. It is what we call a "negative right." A negative right only requires others to abstain from interfering with your actions.

Anti-semitism is a form of hostility, an active-ad hominem to or prejudice against Jews; simply because they are Jews. You want to globally amplify the theme that Jews are intolerant toward those holding different opinions, which is an over-expansion when it is not accurate. Jews understand that there are many around the world that oppose the Jewish National Home and all it stands for; which includes the "fact" that is is the most developed nation in the Middle East. It is not only rated above all its immediate neighbors in the region, but is rated above all 22 members of the Arab League.

Jews are not "bigots." There is nothing wrong at all with defending against an all-inclusive, cultural-wide, condemnation as is done regularly. And those that openly attack Israel should be prepared for push-back.

In the near recent times, much todo has been made about the Arab Palestinians and the right they assume in killing Jews, without consequence. This is a concept that has been outlawed since the late 1930's (Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism). But you don't see, but a few, in the UN that looks at the law and apply it. The "bigot" is NOT Israel or the Jews. The "bigotry" is presented by the world leaders that don't speak out against those that support the Arab Palestinians. We have not seen the likes of which since the "Kristallnacht" and the persecution under the color of law. Yet, that is what is being done yet again by those that think they are so rightous, that not only do they manipulate the law against Israel, they also openly advocate terrorist action against the Jews ("by all available means, including armed struggle" A/RES/3246 (XXIX), and "by all available means, particularly armed struggle" A/RES/33/24 √). For more than 40 years, the world that has painted Israel with the stripes of bigotry, also knows that the Role of Law (RoL) condemns all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage breaches of the peace. It is prohibited by law to incite terrorist act or acts (See: S/RES/1624√)
→and threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression (See: A/RES/2/110) prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts (See: S/RES/1624). The next time you hear some Holier-Then-Thou → Arab terrorist support hypocrites claim bigotry against the Jews, just remind them that it was they that really set the standard for intentionally targeting unarmed civilians → and then turn around and thump their chest like they were real heroes.

Most Respectfully,
R

When you say Jews are not bigots...well of course they are. As a group they are no different than any other group of people. They have their good, bad, tolerant, intolerant, etc people just like any other group because first an foremost they are human beings and subject the same foibles as all human beings including bigotry and intolerance. Look at the pew poll on Israeli attitudes. There are two forces at work. One which demonizes Jews as the source of the world's evils, and we see that view on display every day but there is the other that elevates them above all other cultures as if they are incapable of wrong and you see that in the almost patronizing attitudes of some nonJews. With that can you see how some canards get perpetrated and fueled? The Jewish people are people like any other and like all people are individuals capable of great good and great evil and like most us, very mundane.

 

[Coyote]

RE: New poll shows strong anti-Arab sentiment among Israeli Jews
⁜→ Dogmaphobe, flacaltenn, et al,

Yeah, I think you have missed the underlying prejudice here.

But in the interest of fair/balanced, I think you misinterpreted her comment. Don't think it was about USMB at all. More about her general impression of the Israeli/American/World dialogue about the general tensions between Arab and Jews not getting about enough exposure. Or from her perspective at least -- Jewish "innate" bias against Arabs.

Have you ever considered applying that much touted fairness and balance to me? I have yet to see any. Ever.

The fact remains that she made a false claim. Nobody ANYWHERE is prevented from discussing this issue even if countless antisemitic hate sites make the claim that having one's antisemitism challenged somehow stifles them. I find this especially ironic when such claims arise from those who are in the very business of stifling others, themselves.

Even with your overly generous interpretation that it merely the notion that Jews are bigots that is getting too little exposure, good grief, man, you must think she is incredibly naïve not to realize that the vast majority of the world press already paints this very picture.

(COMMENT)

You have the right to your opinion. And as long as it is presented in a civil tone and in a non-ad hominem way, you are entitled to express that opinion. It is what we call a "negative right." A negative right only requires others to abstain from interfering with your actions.

Anti-semitism is a form of hostility, an active-ad hominem to or prejudice against Jews; simply because they are Jews. You want to globally amplify the theme that Jews are intolerant toward those holding different opinions, which is an over-expansion when it is not accurate. Jews understand that there are many around the world that oppose the Jewish National Home and all it stands for; which includes the "fact" that is is the most developed nation in the Middle East. It is not only rated above all its immediate neighbors in the region, but is rated above all 22 members of the Arab League.

Jews are not "bigots." There is nothing wrong at all with defending against an all-inclusive, cultural-wide, condemnation as is done regularly. And those that openly attack Israel should be prepared for push-back.

In the near recent times, much todo has been made about the Arab Palestinians and the right they assume in killing Jews, without consequence. This is a concept that has been outlawed since the late 1930's (Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism). But you don't see, but a few, in the UN that looks at the law and apply it. The "bigot" is NOT Israel or the Jews. The "bigotry" is presented by the world leaders that don't speak out against those that support the Arab Palestinians. We have not seen the likes of which since the "Kristallnacht" and the persecution under the color of law. Yet, that is what is being done yet again by those that think they are so rightous, that not only do they manipulate the law against Israel, they also openly advocate terrorist action against the Jews ("by all available means, including armed struggle" A/RES/3246 (XXIX), and "by all available means, particularly armed struggle" A/RES/33/24 √). For more than 40 years, the world that has painted Israel with the stripes of bigotry, also knows that the Role of Law (RoL) condemns all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage breaches of the peace. It is prohibited by law to incite terrorist act or acts (See: S/RES/1624√)
→and threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression (See: A/RES/2/110) prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts (See: S/RES/1624). The next time you hear some Holier-Then-Thou → Arab terrorist support hypocrites claim bigotry against the Jews, just remind them that it was they that really set the standard for intentionally targeting unarmed civilians → and then turn around and thump their chest like they were real heroes.

Most Respectfully,
R

I do not support terrorism in any shape or form nor is there any "right" to kill civilians EVER. I have never expressed such views or supported such views.

However, the Palestinians DO have some rights as a people, and supporting those rights does not mean supporting violent actions to attain them nor does it mean nor does it give them a carte blanche to do what they want without consequences (ie - lob rockets into a sovereign state, expect retaliation).

Bigots exist in all cultures Rocco. Even in Israel. I don't understand why it's ok in some and condemned in others. Is it so hard to just say it is bad all around with out carving exceptions?

 

[Coyote]

So stuff your assessment up your ass.

Thanks.

__________________________________________________

This is the major finding of the OP's article:

Over half of respondents said they agreed to some extent with the statement: “Most Jews are better than most non-Jews because they were born Jews.” Another 17% said they thought statement was not “totally true,” while 20% rejected it completely. Among the 52% who said the statement was “totally true” or “pretty true,” 66% identified as ultra-Orthodox, 45% identified as religious Zionists and 13% as identified as traditionally observant. In stark contrast, only 7.1% of Israelis who identified as secular said they supported the statement.​

It's a clear expression of Jewish supremacy, and it's shown to be most prevalent in orthodox and Zionist groups. Much of the debate on here added further evidence to that finding. That the Times of Israel chose not to include a complete, detailed tabulation of the poll is unfortunate, but it's not in and of itself demonstrating the poll is invalid. Assumptions to the contrary are patently ridiculous.

This is not - NOT - a case of "Look at them Jews! What are they thinking?" Rather, it's a finding repeated over and over again - arguably the human birth defect, a habitual, primordial, and impossible-to-eradicate preference of the in-group over anyone Other. Otherwise worth noting is that answers to any such questions are subject to changes due to the more or less wide-spread public rejection of expression of supremacy, and thus answers to the same or similar questions by different societies, or by even different groups within the same society, may differ mostly on account of being not perfectly forthright. The finding, unsurprising as it is, stands, and no amount of "Look at them Arabs/French/Germans/Americans/etc! What are they thinking?" will detract from it. Rather, as stated before, it's an unwitting confirmation of the finding.

That sentiment, that birth defect, is in and of itself problematic. It is becoming more problematic the less we are aware of it, and the more it is allowed to influence policy-making, especially in combination. The poll (and all similar polls in other societies) should be lauded for shining a light on this state of affairs, on what and who we are, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Alas...

It is looking at a very small sampling and it's predominately in the uber religious. It isn't the best constructed poll, but I think the points it makes can be found in other polls, even PEW. I'm willing to bet you would find similar attitudes in other religions at about the same levels - everyone thinks they are the chosen people of some god or prophet but not everyone gets attacked for it.

This I agree with: ... it's a finding repeated over and over again - arguably the human birth defect, a habitual, primordial, and impossible-to-eradicate preference of the in-group over anyone Other.

It's biologically hardwired into us and it's also the difference between conservative and liberal (in a non political meaning) - who's part of "Us" and who is not "Us" - one is exclusive and protectionist and the other is inclusive and expansionist.

 

[flacaltenn]

Interestingly, in that Pew poll, for Arab CITIZENS of Israel -- the negative opinion of Jews weighed in at about only 35%... THAT also is more significant than any of the questions asked in the poll from the OP...

After sleeping on it, and thinking about polls - you're right. The OP is a crappy poll on which to base the OP. I'll take the slapping I deserve over it. But I will not concede my original point. I should have gone straight to PEW because they are a solid source, and PEW does support my point about discrimmination. For example: Israel’s Religiously Divided Society

Social divisions within Israeli society may be connected to perceptions of discrimination. Roughly eight-in-ten Arabs (79%) say there is a lot of discrimination against Muslims in Israel today, while just 21% of Israeli Jews share this view....

The survey also asked about personal experiences with discrimination. About one-in-six Muslims say they have been questioned by security officials (17%), prevented from traveling (15%) or physically threatened or attacked (15%) because of their religion in the past 12 months, while 13% say they have suffered property damage. All told, 37% of Muslims say they have suffered at least one of these forms of discrimination because of their religious identity in the past year.8


The survey also asked about positive interactions. About a quarter of Israeli Muslims (26%) say a Jewish person has expressed concern or sympathy toward them in the past year because of their religious identity. And 15% of Christians and 18% of Druze say a Jewish person has expressed sympathy toward them in the last 12 months.

Again. Question the questions. In this Pew poll, they are not solely measuring the TREATMENT of ARAB CITIZENS. That 79% "a lot of discrimination against Muslims" answer is the opinion of Arab-Israelis about treatment of ALL muslims -- including the Palestinians --- within the borders of Israel. That's why it SEEMS different from the OTHER Pew number I gave you. And also why the much smaller number than expected of travel, search, physical harm, than would be reported in the 2nd question you posted.

If you asked a different question of Israeli-Arabs, like "how would you categorize the amount of discrimination against Arab citizens of Israel? You most certainly get different numbers.

If Arab citizens are far less discriminated against than the Palestinians, you wouldn't know it from that 79% question. It's a different kind of discrimination based on residency status, but APPEARS to be a "religious discrimination" because only one question seems to have been asked that doesn't actually resolve the QUESTION of bias within the citizenry of Israel..

 

[Olde Europe]

It is looking at a very small sampling and it's predominately in the uber religious. It isn't the best constructed poll, but I think the points it makes can be found in other polls, even PEW. I'm willing to bet you would find similar attitudes in other religions at about the same levels - everyone thinks they are the chosen people of some god or prophet but not everyone gets attacked for it.

This I agree with: ... it's a finding repeated over and over again - arguably the human birth defect, a habitual, primordial, and impossible-to-eradicate preference of the in-group over anyone Other.

It's biologically hardwired into us and it's also the difference between conservative and liberal (in a non political meaning) - who's part of "Us" and who is not "Us" - one is exclusive and protectionist and the other is inclusive and expansionist.

The sample wouldn't tell us much about a population the size of the U.S., with just 10 respondents per state on average, but for Israel it's valid. I don't know how you know the "uber religious" are over-represented; the text certainly doesn't indicate that. And even if they were, the main conclusion as to the respective groups - the more religious and fundamentalist, the more intolerant - remains just the same, even while conclusions for the entire population are of limited worth.

We've talked before how bias is influencing policy-making, we've talked before about the massively exclusive new Citizenship Law, and the Us vs. Non-Us sentiments that seem to underpin it. So, I still find things are pretty much falling in place, policy-making and public sentiment walking hand-in-hand in an entirely wrong direction. Don't they? And all that is while we're seeing the same or similar playing out over much of Europe and the U.S., fundamentally undermining the rule of law, and democracy itself, with fear of the Other the main driving force.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: New poll shows strong anti-Arab sentiment among Israeli Jews
⁜→ Coyote,, et al,

No culture is prefect.

When you say Jews are not bigots...well of course they are. As a group they are no different than any other group of people.

(COMMENT)

I would say you are correct here. I would say that if there was a standard mean for bigotry that is common to all social orders, then Israel (the Jewish People) would fall somewhere within the first standard deviation. But of course, there is no such measurement.

They have their good, bad, tolerant, intolerant, etc people just like any other group because first an foremost they are human beings and subject the same foibles as all human beings including bigotry and intolerance. Look at the pew poll on Israeli attitudes.

(COMMENT)

I'm not sure that is the correct interpretation of the cause behind the answers. I do not concur with the statement made buy The HAARETZ. The Israelis may not be as anti-immigration (73%) as the global median (35%) makes it look:

Pew Research Center published a poll Monday of attitudes towards migrants in twenty-seven around the world - finding that Israelis are among the most anti-immigration populations surveyed.

The question was: In your opinion, should we allow more immigrants to move to our country, few immigrants, or about the same as we do now?

Israel has a net migration rate of 2.2/1000.

Population:
8,299,706 (July 2017 est.)
Ethnic groups:
Jewish 74.7%
Israel-born 76.3%,
Europe/America/Oceania-born 16.2%,
Africa-born 4.8%,
Asia-born 2.7%,
non-Jewish 25.2% (mostly Arab) (2016 est.)
Population growth rate (%) 2018
1.51%
Unemployment, youth ages 15-24
total: 8.6%
​

It may not be that the Israelis are anti-immigrant, but more often they within their comfort zone; feeling balanced.

As the number of international migrants reaches new highs, people around the world show little appetite for more migration – both into and out of their countries, according to a Pew Research Center survey of 27 nations conducted in the spring of 2018.

People in other countries around the world hold views similar to those in Europe. Large majorities in Israel (73%), Russia (67%), South Africa (65%) and Argentina (61%) say their countries should let in fewer immigrants. In every country surveyed, less than a third say their nation should allow more immigrants to enter.

(COMMENT)

The poll said that "less than a third say their nation should allow more immigrants to enter."

The Jewish people are people like any other and like all people are individuals capable of great good and great evil and like most us, very mundane.

(COMMENT)

I agree that this is true, I'm not sure that the immediate neighbors to Israel are at all in agreement.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Coyote]

RE: New poll shows strong anti-Arab sentiment among Israeli Jews
⁜→ Coyote,, et al,

No culture is prefect.

When you say Jews are not bigots...well of course they are. As a group they are no different than any other group of people.

(COMMENT)

I would say you are correct here. I would say that if there was a standard mean for bigotry that is common to all social orders, then Israel (the Jewish People) would fall somewhere within the first standard deviation. But of course, there is no such measurement.

They have their good, bad, tolerant, intolerant, etc people just like any other group because first an foremost they are human beings and subject the same foibles as all human beings including bigotry and intolerance. Look at the pew poll on Israeli attitudes.

(COMMENT)

I'm not sure that is the correct interpretation of the cause behind the answers. I do not concur with the statement made buy The HAARETZ. The Israelis may not be as anti-immigration (73%) as the global median (35%) makes it look:

Pew Research Center published a poll Monday of attitudes towards migrants in twenty-seven around the world - finding that Israelis are among the most anti-immigration populations surveyed.

The question was: In your opinion, should we allow more immigrants to move to our country, few immigrants, or about the same as we do now?

Israel has a net migration rate of 2.2/1000.

View attachment 234349
Population:
8,299,706 (July 2017 est.)
Ethnic groups:
Jewish 74.7%
Israel-born 76.3%,
Europe/America/Oceania-born 16.2%,
Africa-born 4.8%,
Asia-born 2.7%,
non-Jewish 25.2% (mostly Arab) (2016 est.)
Population growth rate (%) 2018
1.51%
Unemployment, youth ages 15-24
total: 8.6%
​

It may not be that the Israelis are anti-immigrant, but more often they within their comfort zone; feeling balanced.

As the number of international migrants reaches new highs, people around the world show little appetite for more migration – both into and out of their countries, according to a Pew Research Center survey of 27 nations conducted in the spring of 2018.

People in other countries around the world hold views similar to those in Europe. Large majorities in Israel (73%), Russia (67%), South Africa (65%) and Argentina (61%) say their countries should let in fewer immigrants. In every country surveyed, less than a third say their nation should allow more immigrants to enter.

(COMMENT)

The poll said that "less than a third say their nation should allow more immigrants to enter."

The Jewish people are people like any other and like all people are individuals capable of great good and great evil and like most us, very mundane.

(COMMENT)

I agree that this is true, I'm not sure that the immediate neighbors to Israel are at all in agreement.

Most Respectfully,
R

I think on immigration, Israel is pretty much where many of the developed countries are at this point in time with the pendulum swinging towards increasingly anti immigrant. That seems to be a worldwide trend...

 

[flacaltenn]

I don't know how you know the "uber religious" are over-represented; the text certainly doesn't indicate that.

It's exaggerated when the analysis posts startling LARGE numbers for any "orthodoxy" of religion, but doesn't normalize that as a % of Israeli citizens. The contribution of 70% of Haredi Jews to "Israeli Opinion" on anything, represents only about 7% of Israelis.

Now as I said in my post -- the JPost can get away with that IN Israel. Because most Israelis can do that math. But for international consumption -- that kind of presentation is not rigorously presented enough for the casual American (for instance) consumer of the article.

 

[TrueTT]

Except that they are not antisemitic canards. They occur all the time in these discussions and they effectively shut down discussion from one of issues to one of name calling.

"Jews can do no wrong" and "Jews won't permit criticism of Israel" ARE anti-semitic canards. Modern variations on Jewish superiority/choseness. Comparing Jews to those who unreasonably hate them and to those who accomplished the Shoah is also an anti-semitic canard.

And these call-outs should not shut down the discussion. On the contrary the INTENT of me bringing it up is to discuss the anti-semitism that is so prevalent in these discussions and which underlies the entire conflict. (Like we are doing right now). IF it shuts down the conversation it is because most people are perfectly comfortable in their anti-semitism and do not want to examine it.

If you want to discuss actual issues, why didn't you start a thread on actual issues? There are PLENTY to discuss. Instead you started a thread about a poll which was deliberately invented to draw a parallel between Jewish "racism" and European anti-semitism and the Shoah in order to make Jews look bad. Or to normalize anti-semitism.

Can you find any threads or posts from Team Israel criticizing anything Israel does? If you can't, then the impression Israel can do no wrong in the eyes of it's supporters is hardly a canard is it?

I have certainly seen posts which reasonably criticize Israel's policies from Team Israel. I also have seen posts which explain why they don't criticize Israel for something Team Palestine thinks they should criticize Israel for. I have also spent more than a dozen years on a board where the level of conversation was much higher and where there was significant criticism of specific policies, so I am aware that Team Israel is perfectly capable of it. But again, as I said, we spend so much time here explaining that Jews right to life is actually protected in international law we don't have much time leftover for real discussions. But just for fun, I'll start a thread.

As a good Shabbos Goy, I have no qualms accepting that Jews are superior to others. That’s not an anti-Semitic canard, it’s a testament of objective fact. Economically, intellectually, and all in between facets of the world.

I don’t know why you Jews shy away from it so much. Embrace it, flaunt it. The world goes to waste when those who have earned the right to narcissism refuse to indulge in it.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: New poll shows strong anti-Arab sentiment among Israeli Jews
⁜→ Dogmaphobe, flacaltenn, et al,

Yeah, I think you have missed the underlying prejudice here.

But in the interest of fair/balanced, I think you misinterpreted her comment. Don't think it was about USMB at all. More about her general impression of the Israeli/American/World dialogue about the general tensions between Arab and Jews not getting about enough exposure. Or from her perspective at least -- Jewish "innate" bias against Arabs.

Have you ever considered applying that much touted fairness and balance to me? I have yet to see any. Ever.

The fact remains that she made a false claim. Nobody ANYWHERE is prevented from discussing this issue even if countless antisemitic hate sites make the claim that having one's antisemitism challenged somehow stifles them. I find this especially ironic when such claims arise from those who are in the very business of stifling others, themselves.

Even with your overly generous interpretation that it merely the notion that Jews are bigots that is getting too little exposure, good grief, man, you must think she is incredibly naïve not to realize that the vast majority of the world press already paints this very picture.

(COMMENT)

You have the right to your opinion. And as long as it is presented in a civil tone and in a non-ad hominem way, you are entitled to express that opinion. It is what we call a "negative right." A negative right only requires others to abstain from interfering with your actions.

Anti-semitism is a form of hostility, an active-ad hominem to or prejudice against Jews; simply because they are Jews. You want to globally amplify the theme that Jews are intolerant toward those holding different opinions, which is an over-expansion when it is not accurate. Jews understand that there are many around the world that oppose the Jewish National Home and all it stands for; which includes the "fact" that is is the most developed nation in the Middle East. It is not only rated above all its immediate neighbors in the region, but is rated above all 22 members of the Arab League.

Jews are not "bigots." There is nothing wrong at all with defending against an all-inclusive, cultural-wide, condemnation as is done regularly. And those that openly attack Israel should be prepared for push-back.

In the near recent times, much todo has been made about the Arab Palestinians and the right they assume in killing Jews, without consequence. This is a concept that has been outlawed since the late 1930's (Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism). But you don't see, but a few, in the UN that looks at the law and apply it. The "bigot" is NOT Israel or the Jews. The "bigotry" is presented by the world leaders that don't speak out against those that support the Arab Palestinians. We have not seen the likes of which since the "Kristallnacht" and the persecution under the color of law. Yet, that is what is being done yet again by those that think they are so rightous, that not only do they manipulate the law against Israel, they also openly advocate terrorist action against the Jews ("by all available means, including armed struggle" A/RES/3246 (XXIX), and "by all available means, particularly armed struggle" A/RES/33/24 √). For more than 40 years, the world that has painted Israel with the stripes of bigotry, also knows that the Role of Law (RoL) condemns all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage breaches of the peace. It is prohibited by law to incite terrorist act or acts (See: S/RES/1624√)
→and threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression (See: A/RES/2/110) prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts (See: S/RES/1624). The next time you hear some Holier-Then-Thou → Arab terrorist support hypocrites claim bigotry against the Jews, just remind them that it was they that really set the standard for intentionally targeting unarmed civilians → and then turn around and thump their chest like they were real heroes.

Most Respectfully,
R

Arab terrorist support hypocrites claim bigotry against the Jews, just remind them that it was they that really set the standard for intentionally targeting unarmed civilians → and then turn around and thump their chest like they were real heroes.

That depends on your perspective. A civilian attack on a civilian. What is your point of view?



Is this aggression, hate, retaliation, defense, terrorism?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: New poll shows strong anti-Arab sentiment among Israeli Jews
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't know what book you're drawing your conclusion from, but! you can "never" use deadly force against an unarmed civilian; never!

Arab terrorist support hypocrites claim bigotry against the Jews, just remind them that it was they that really set the standard for intentionally targeting unarmed civilians → and then turn around and thump their chest like they were real heroes.

That depends on your perspective. A civilian attack on a civilian. What is your point of view?
Is this aggression, hate, retaliation, defense, terrorism?

(COMMENT)

It does not matter what spin you put on it. The attempt to justify the attacks merely further proves the point.

C&IHL: Rule 2. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited.

◈ Article 51of Additional Protocol I [ Link ] -- Protection of the civilian population • International Armed Conflicts

◈ Additional Protocol II Non-international Armed Conflicts

• Article 4(2)(d) of Additional Protocol II. “Acts of terrorism” •

• Article 13(2) of Additional Protocol II "Protection of the civilian population"​

You are mentally crippled if you believe that there is some international law supporting any aspect of the use of deadly force by the Arab Palestinians against the Israelis.

Palestinian Arab Official Admits “Killing Israelis is not Terror, it’s Legitimate”
​

This video is an example of how morally bankrupt the Arab Palestinians are now and have been in the past.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: New poll shows strong anti-Arab sentiment among Israeli Jews
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't know what book you're drawing your conclusion from, but! you can "never" use deadly force against an unarmed civilian; never!

Arab terrorist support hypocrites claim bigotry against the Jews, just remind them that it was they that really set the standard for intentionally targeting unarmed civilians → and then turn around and thump their chest like they were real heroes.

That depends on your perspective. A civilian attack on a civilian. What is your point of view?
Is this aggression, hate, retaliation, defense, terrorism?

(COMMENT)

It does not matter what spin you put on it. The attempt to justify the attacks merely further proves the point.

C&IHL: Rule 2. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited.

◈ Article 51of Additional Protocol I [ Link ] -- Protection of the civilian population • International Armed Conflicts

◈ Additional Protocol II Non-international Armed Conflicts

• Article 4(2)(d) of Additional Protocol II. “Acts of terrorism” •

• Article 13(2) of Additional Protocol II "Protection of the civilian population"​

You are mentally crippled if you believe that there is some international law supporting any aspect of the use of deadly force by the Arab Palestinians against the Israelis.

Palestinian Arab Official Admits “Killing Israelis is not Terror, it’s Legitimate”
​

This video is an example of how morally bankrupt the Arab Palestinians are now and have been in the past.

Most Respectfully,
R

C&IHL: Rule 2. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited.

Israel does that all the time. Never a peep out of you.

 

[Coyote]

RE: New poll shows strong anti-Arab sentiment among Israeli Jews
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't know what book you're drawing your conclusion from, but! you can "never" use deadly force against an unarmed civilian; never!

Exactly...this is non negotiable imo. Once you start to legitimize it you descend into moral ambiguity. Civilians should never be targeted.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: New poll shows strong anti-Arab sentiment among Israeli Jews
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, I'm at a loss.

C&IHL: Rule 2. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited.

Israel does that all the time. Never a peep out of you.

(QUESTION)

Give me an example.

Most Respectfully,
R