New law in Belgium - year in prison for using sexist words.

[editec]

Whyat do I think of Belguim?

One word


CONGO.

Nuf said?

 

[ScienceRocks]

Going the way of the congo or Iran as it hates freedom. European countries like to act like they support freedom but telling someone that you will go to prison for saying something = a very anti-freedom place.

I hope the people of Belgium storm the government buildings and feed these politicians to the sharks.

 

[Mertex]

This just seems abnormally creepy. People shouldn't be jailed for voicing their opinions and beliefs. Though they are woefully misguided, this also includes Holocaust deniers. We should not be trying to control, punish, and oppress people for daring to, of all things, speak. If you cannot tolerate someone's speech, debate and prove them wrong every chance you get, instead of trying to close their lips tight like the tyrants of ages past. We are not children. We are adults. We are capable of having the self-control and restraint to not use laws to keep others from talking. Let's have respect for one another's right to talk.

It is intellectually lazy to assume those against this law must either be bigoted or hateful. Because I'm neither, that notion's baseless.

Maybe Germany realizes how many dumb people there are that are willing to believe a lie and promote it, and before you know it they overcome the intelligent ones with their dumb ideas.....it's trying to happen here in the USA, (not about the Holocaust) but about other innocuous things.

 

[JimBowie1958]

This just seems abnormally creepy. People shouldn't be jailed for voicing their opinions and beliefs. Though they are woefully misguided, this also includes Holocaust deniers. We should not be trying to control, punish, and oppress people for daring to, of all things, speak. If you cannot tolerate someone's speech, debate and prove them wrong every chance you get, instead of trying to close their lips tight like the tyrants of ages past. We are not children. We are adults. We are capable of having the self-control and restraint to not use laws to keep others from talking. Let's have respect for one another's right to talk.

It is intellectually lazy to assume those against this law must either be bigoted or hateful. Because I'm neither, that notion's baseless.

In the case of Germany and Austria, there are still people there who believe in Hitler. There are neo-Nazis. If Holocaust denial were allowed, there is a good possibility tha there would be a substantial rise in neo-Nazi groups, and this is something the majority of Austrian and German citizens don't want, as well as it being something the authorities don't want. What the average German and Austrian want is peace, not a return to the ugliness of the 30's and 40's and the terrible wartime events. Not to be seen as racists and countries responsible for genocide. They do not want to expend a lot of energy and money on controling neo-Nazi groups either. Not allowing Holocaust denial goes a long way to maintaining the peaceful, prosperous nations that Austria and Germany are now. School children are educated about their past and the emphasis is on not ever allowing the past to repeat itself. Allowing Holocaust denial would totally work against that.

Yeah, you libtards are all for limiting freedom of speech to simplify things, just like Mao, Stalin and Lenin did.

Eventually you will get around to your gulags, death camps and phony show trials too.

The only two differences between a communist and a fascist is that the fascist wants to promote his nation and people while commie could not care less, and a commie wants the state to own corporations and fascists merely want to control them.

Otherwise you and the commies are exactly the same, you phony fascist dog.

 

[JimBowie1958]

This just seems abnormally creepy. People shouldn't be jailed for voicing their opinions and beliefs. Though they are woefully misguided, this also includes Holocaust deniers. We should not be trying to control, punish, and oppress people for daring to, of all things, speak. If you cannot tolerate someone's speech, debate and prove them wrong every chance you get, instead of trying to close their lips tight like the tyrants of ages past. We are not children. We are adults. We are capable of having the self-control and restraint to not use laws to keep others from talking. Let's have respect for one another's right to talk.

It is intellectually lazy to assume those against this law must either be bigoted or hateful. Because I'm neither, that notion's baseless.

Maybe Germany realizes how many dumb people there are that are willing to believe a lie and promote it, and before you know it they overcome the intelligent ones with their dumb ideas.....it's trying to happen here in the USA, (not about the Holocaust) but about other innocuous things.

That is the risk of Freedom of Speech, and safety is never worth trading freedom for.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Going the way of the congo or Iran as it hates freedom. European countries like to act like they support freedom but telling someone that you will go to prison for saying something = a very anti-freedom place.

I hope the people of Belgium storm the government buildings and feed these politicians to the sharks.

They wont as they are Belgians.

 

[FlemishMaster]

Just to provide a few facts: What is mentioned in the OP is NOT a current law in Belgium, but is a proposal (nothing more than a trial balloon really) of one Minister without the support of the full government, let alone a majority in Parliament. While the Belgian Parliament unfortunately has a proven track record in passing stupid legislation, I think chances are this particular stupid proposal will not become law.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Just to provide a few facts: What is mentioned in the OP is NOT a current law in Belgium, but is a proposal (nothing more than a trial balloon really) of one Minister without the support of the full government, let alone a majority in Parliament. While the Belgian Parliament unfortunately has a proven track record in passing stupid legislation, I think chances are this particular stupid proposal will not become law.

That such a law would even be proposed is outrageous.

Consider the reaction if a law maker proposed a law to ban all Jews from Belgium. Imagine the outrage and scandal.

That is how you should be reacting to this asinine fascist law proposal.

 

[FlemishMaster]

Just to provide a few facts: What is mentioned in the OP is NOT a current law in Belgium, but is a proposal (nothing more than a trial balloon really) of one Minister without the support of the full government, let alone a majority in Parliament. While the Belgian Parliament unfortunately has a proven track record in passing stupid legislation, I think chances are this particular stupid proposal will not become law.

That such a law would even be proposed is outrageous.

Consider the reaction if a law maker proposed a law to ban all Jews from Belgium. Imagine the outrage and scandal.

That is how you should be reacting to this asinine fascist law proposal.

The comparison you make is pretty wild.

And if a citizen of any country (the US included) had to get fully excited every time somebody proposed a stupid law then we would be in a state of constant overexcitement. I, for one, prefer to keep a cool head.

 

[Esmeralda]

Just to provide a few facts: What is mentioned in the OP is NOT a current law in Belgium, but is a proposal (nothing more than a trial balloon really) of one Minister without the support of the full government, let alone a majority in Parliament. While the Belgian Parliament unfortunately has a proven track record in passing stupid legislation, I think chances are this particular stupid proposal will not become law.

That such a law would even be proposed is outrageous.

Consider the reaction if a law maker proposed a law to ban all Jews from Belgium. Imagine the outrage and scandal.

That is how you should be reacting to this asinine fascist law proposal.

The comparison you make is pretty wild.

And if a citizen of any country (the US included) had to get fully excited every time somebody proposed a stupid law then we would be in a state of constant overexcitement. I, for one, prefer to keep a cool head.

Jim Bowie =

 

[JimBowie1958]

Just to provide a few facts: What is mentioned in the OP is NOT a current law in Belgium, but is a proposal (nothing more than a trial balloon really) of one Minister without the support of the full government, let alone a majority in Parliament. While the Belgian Parliament unfortunately has a proven track record in passing stupid legislation, I think chances are this particular stupid proposal will not become law.

That such a law would even be proposed is outrageous.

Consider the reaction if a law maker proposed a law to ban all Jews from Belgium. Imagine the outrage and scandal.

That is how you should be reacting to this asinine fascist law proposal.

The comparison you make is pretty wild.

Wild? lol, it is an analogy that is deliberately exaggerated to show the violation of principle in more glaring terms. There is no trade off of freedom for security that benefits the people of a nation outside of a time of war.

And if a citizen of any country (the US included) had to get fully excited every time somebody proposed a stupid law then we would be in a state of constant overexcitement. I, for one, prefer to keep a cool head.

One can keep a cool head and protest, dude.

But maybe telling the government to back off and mind its manners just isn't a Flemish sort of thing?

 

[JimBowie1958]

That such a law would even be proposed is outrageous.

Consider the reaction if a law maker proposed a law to ban all Jews from Belgium. Imagine the outrage and scandal.

That is how you should be reacting to this asinine fascist law proposal.

The comparison you make is pretty wild.

And if a citizen of any country (the US included) had to get fully excited every time somebody proposed a stupid law then we would be in a state of constant overexcitement. I, for one, prefer to keep a cool head.

Jim Bowie =

Ah, Esmerelda the old fascist bitch likes to respond with pics and gifs.

She has nothing useful to say so might as well hide behind smilies.

 

[FlemishMaster]

That such a law would even be proposed is outrageous.

Consider the reaction if a law maker proposed a law to ban all Jews from Belgium. Imagine the outrage and scandal.

That is how you should be reacting to this asinine fascist law proposal.

The comparison you make is pretty wild.

Wild? lol, it is an analogy that is deliberately exaggerated to show the violation of principle in more glaring terms. There is no trade off of freedom for security that benefits the people of a nation outside of a time of war.

And if a citizen of any country (the US included) had to get fully excited every time somebody proposed a stupid law then we would be in a state of constant overexcitement. I, for one, prefer to keep a cool head.

One can keep a cool head and protest, dude.

But maybe telling the government to back off and mind its manners just isn't a Flemish sort of thing?

You seem to have a problem with reading English, so I will repeat again: This is a personal proposal formulated by one Minister. It has not been approved by the Government, nor has it been submitted to Parliament.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The comparison you make is pretty wild.

Wild? lol, it is an analogy that is deliberately exaggerated to show the violation of principle in more glaring terms. There is no trade off of freedom for security that benefits the people of a nation outside of a time of war.

And if a citizen of any country (the US included) had to get fully excited every time somebody proposed a stupid law then we would be in a state of constant overexcitement. I, for one, prefer to keep a cool head.

One can keep a cool head and protest, dude.

But maybe telling the government to back off and mind its manners just isn't a Flemish sort of thing?

You seem to have a problem with reading English, so I will repeat again: This is a personal proposal formulated by one Minister. It has not been approved by the Government, nor has it been submitted to Parliament.

No, I read that and understand it quite well. And MY assertion to you is that this should be considered so outrageous by a freedom loving people that there would be protests and calls for the ministers head.

Get it yet?

 

[Wake]

This just seems abnormally creepy. People shouldn't be jailed for voicing their opinions and beliefs. Though they are woefully misguided, this also includes Holocaust deniers. We should not be trying to control, punish, and oppress people for daring to, of all things, speak. If you cannot tolerate someone's speech, debate and prove them wrong every chance you get, instead of trying to close their lips tight like the tyrants of ages past. We are not children. We are adults. We are capable of having the self-control and restraint to not use laws to keep others from talking. Let's have respect for one another's right to talk.

It is intellectually lazy to assume those against this law must either be bigoted or hateful. Because I'm neither, that notion's baseless.

In the case of Germany and Austria, there are still people there who believe in Hitler. There are neo-Nazis. If Holocaust denial were allowed, there is a good possibility tha there would be a substantial rise in neo-Nazi groups, and this is something the majority of Austrian and German citizens don't want, as well as it being something the authorities don't want. What the average German and Austrian want is peace, not a return to the ugliness of the 30's and 40's and the terrible wartime events. Not to be seen as racists and countries responsible for genocide. They do not want to expend a lot of energy and money on controling neo-Nazi groups either. Not allowing Holocaust denial goes a long way to maintaining the peaceful, prosperous nations that Austria and Germany are now. School children are educated about their past and the emphasis is on not ever allowing the past to repeat itself. Allowing Holocaust denial would totally work against that.

Esmeralda, I enjoy both your company and perspective. I can understand your post, and sympathize with trying to undo some of the damage the Nazis have done to Germany's and Austria's image. However, not allowing Holocaust denial also completely works against the precious concept of free speech. Allow these groups to speak. Challenge and destroy their arguments and credibility with the collective skill you all have: I'll join in. If these groups get violent, or go beyond voicing their own opinions and beliefs, nail them. This regards anything criminal, etc. We shouldn't criminalize thought.... because it truly is a slippery slope.... and we shouldn't try to mind control all the citizens of a nation. It enslaves the minds of men when you permit only certain thought and opinions. We should dwell on these potential ramifications, because these kinds of things can be truly and utterly.... scary.

Let them deny, and let them be overwhelmed and shamed in civil debate. Stifling them from speaking will plant the seeds of revolution, as history has shown, for better or for worse.

This just seems abnormally creepy. People shouldn't be jailed for voicing their opinions and beliefs. Though they are woefully misguided, this also includes Holocaust deniers. We should not be trying to control, punish, and oppress people for daring to, of all things, speak. If you cannot tolerate someone's speech, debate and prove them wrong every chance you get, instead of trying to close their lips tight like the tyrants of ages past. We are not children. We are adults. We are capable of having the self-control and restraint to not use laws to keep others from talking. Let's have respect for one another's right to talk.

It is intellectually lazy to assume those against this law must either be bigoted or hateful. Because I'm neither, that notion's baseless.

Maybe Germany realizes how many dumb people there are that are willing to believe a lie and promote it, and before you know it they overcome the intelligent ones with their dumb ideas.....it's trying to happen here in the USA, (not about the Holocaust) but about other innocuous things.

You too, Mertex.

Virtually all political parties attempt this. It could be said of both the Right and the Left. My strong belief is that these sorts of things should be hammered out in the arena of public opinion and debate. Let man be free. Let man be free to speak his mind, and be free to squash arguments in the arena of concepts. Banning certain ideas will lead to very bad things. At the very least the right to speak one's own mind... just the right... is a sacred one that tyrants throughout all history have attempted time and time again to destroy. We may wake up one day and discover it is us who have became the very tyrants we've been trying to prevent.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Whyat do I think of Belguim?

One word


CONGO.

Nuf said?

I've got another one for you, Editec.

Rwanda.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Going the way of the congo or Iran as it hates freedom. European countries like to act like they support freedom but telling someone that you will go to prison for saying something = a very anti-freedom place.

I hope the people of Belgium storm the government buildings and feed these politicians to the sharks.

The Belgians sure weren't concerned with the freedom of the Rwandans. They abandoned them knowing what would happen ( because it was already happening ) They turned their face and looked the other way. Then told the UN to do the same. That is Belgium. Mass murderers for their god - satan. It's like headquarters for hell in that country. What haven't they been involved in?

 

[FlemishMaster]

Wild? lol, it is an analogy that is deliberately exaggerated to show the violation of principle in more glaring terms. There is no trade off of freedom for security that benefits the people of a nation outside of a time of war.



One can keep a cool head and protest, dude.

But maybe telling the government to back off and mind its manners just isn't a Flemish sort of thing?

You seem to have a problem with reading English, so I will repeat again: This is a personal proposal formulated by one Minister. It has not been approved by the Government, nor has it been submitted to Parliament.

No, I read that and understand it quite well. And MY assertion to you is that this should be considered so outrageous by a freedom loving people that there would be protests and calls for the ministers head.

Get it yet?

Yes, I get that you feel that nobody who holds a public office should be allowed to express an opinion that you don't agree with. I, on the other hand, have a broader view of freedom of expression.

 

[FlemishMaster]

Going the way of the congo or Iran as it hates freedom. European countries like to act like they support freedom but telling someone that you will go to prison for saying something = a very anti-freedom place.

I hope the people of Belgium storm the government buildings and feed these politicians to the sharks.

The Belgians sure weren't concerned with the freedom of the Rwandans. They abandoned them knowing what would happen ( because it was already happening ) They turned their face and looked the other way. Then told the UN to do the same. That is Belgium. Mass murderers for their god - satan. It's like headquarters for hell in that country. What haven't they been involved in?

With all due respect, but that is nonsense. Clearly you don't have any idea about what happened in Rwanda. It was the Canadian UN-general who abandoned Belgian soldiers to be slaughtered in a gruesome manner and it was the UN who refused to do anything meaningful.

Also, I wonder what you feel Belgium should have done? Should they have started killing a few tens of thousands of Rwandans?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Just to provide a few facts: What is mentioned in the OP is NOT a current law in Belgium, but is a proposal (nothing more than a trial balloon really) of one Minister without the support of the full government, let alone a majority in Parliament. While the Belgian Parliament unfortunately has a proven track record in passing stupid legislation, I think chances are this particular stupid proposal will not become law.

I think the fact Belgium refused to prosecute Michel Nihoul for providing children to his elitist clients there is all I need to know about Belgium. 500,000 Belgian people - that is half a million citizens of tiny Belgium, protested openly together in the streets of Belgium demanding a stop to the rampant paedophile, satanism, crime cover ups, witnesses turned up dead during Dutroux investigation was almost 3 dozen people including dead police, dead judges, dead witnesses - disgusting - child sex parties - the kidnapping of their children which was at epic proportions while the govt stayed closed and the King was reported in a Belgian magazine to have been caught in the middle of a child sex party with a Solvay by someone who walked in un-announced! The corruption goes to the very top of Belgium apparently! What a sick nation! Why was Brussels, Belgium designated as the headquarters for world govts leaders to meet? When it is corrupt to the very core??!!!

Tell your King and the Solvay family they are going to hell! Not to share a kingdom with their god but to become fuel for the bon fire! They can take that one to the BANK.

- Jeremiah

p.s. Flemish Master? HA! HA! IN YOUR DREAMS!