New Independent Study Show Romney plan would cut taxes for the rich..

[RDD_1210]

Nobody earning even $1 should have been excluded from income taxes in the first place

LoL

 

[g5000]

If republicans successfully sell a middle class tax hike to pay for further tax cuts for the wealthy they will know without a doubt that they will be able to sell anything, they should start using the old conman term "mark" instead of "voter" to describe their base. BTW I have a wonderful toll bridge investment opportunity if anyone is interested.

What is this mythical middle class tax hike you claim Romeny has proposed?

I have explained it in my previous two posts (here and here).

 

[RDD_1210]

So you think Romney is lying then when he says his plan is zero sum.

Where did he say "zero sum"?
Be as precise as you can.

Revenue Neutral = Zero Sum

Does that work for you?

So he didn't actually say zero sum.
Thanks for your belated honesty.

When all else fails, play semantics games!

 

[edthecynic]

If republicans successfully sell a middle class tax hike to pay for further tax cuts for the wealthy they will know without a doubt that they will be able to sell anything, they should start using the old conman term "mark" instead of "voter" to describe their base. BTW I have a wonderful toll bridge investment opportunity if anyone is interested.

What is this mythical middle class tax hike you claim Romeny has proposed?

Again as has already been pointed out, limiting deductions and exemptions hikes the amount of taxes you pay, by making more of your income subject to taxation. Those parts of your income that were exempt from income taxes will now be taxable.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsTIIjKsmZU]Romney: My tax plan can't be scored - YouTube[/ame]

ROMNEY: What I say is we’re going to cut the top marginal rate across-the-board by 20 percent, and at the same time, we’re going to limit deductions and exemptions to pay for most of that and then additional growth will pay for the rest of that such that our plan does not increase the deficit.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Nobody earning even $1 should have been excluded from income taxes in the first place

LoL

Really, why is that, shouldnt those people pay for their roads too? They use infastructure, I figure atleast if you're gonna watch Judge Joe Brown all day, you can donate a little to government too.....

 

[onecut39]

While increasing them for everyone else.

Mitt Romney's plan revamping the tax code would end up cutting taxes for the richest 5 percent of Americans and raising taxes on everyone else, according to new independent study from the Brookings Institute and Tax Policy Center released Wednesday morning.

The study finds that Romney's plan would end up cutting taxes by about $87,000 on millionaires under a revenue-neutral model. The top 0.1 percent would see their after-tax revenue income rise by 4.4 percent. Meanwhile, the study estimates that the bottom 95 percent would see about 1.2 percent less after-tax income. They'll see taxes rise about $500, according to the study.


Read more: Mitt Romney's Tax Plan Would Cut Taxes For Rich, Raise For Middle Class: Study - Business Insider

The Romney camp has already called them "liberal outfits".

But when he was citing the exact same folks to attack Rick Perry..they were "independent".

Just another of the rampant Romney flip flops. Don't like Romney policies? Just wait a minute.

 

[RDD_1210]

Nobody earning even $1 should have been excluded from income taxes in the first place

LoL

Really, why is that, shouldnt those people pay for their roads too? They use infastructure, I figure atleast if you're gonna watch Judge Joe Brown all day, you can donate a little to government too.....

LOL x2

 

[occupied]

What is this mythical middle class tax hike you claim Romeny has proposed?

Where have you been? If the tax burden is successfully shifted downward as republicans have long longed to achieve, where do you think it will go? It's not like the poor have anything to spare after states have already hiked all manner of fees, sales and excise taxes.

WAIT lets look at this: ARe you saying local and state governments are bleeding poor people? Yet you still advocate electing these bloodsuckers to local and state office, for example, Chicago controls Illinois, so if you live in Illinois, Cook county has the highest taxes.....and yes it is bleeding people dry, but they aint electing republicans...

No matter where you live in this country, redstate or bluestate, the bottom pay a greater percent of their income in taxes to their state than the top, no outrage there since generally the redder the state the greater the burden on the poor. It has become even more pronounced in recent years as states have had a wealthy tax cut race to the bottom to attract business. Be happy, it means that the oligarchy is all but untaxable by any means and the burden has been placed on those who can least afford it, just the way you like.

 

[Vel]

Interesting read.

After Bush Tax Cuts, Payments By Wealthy Actually Increased - Forbes

 

[Claudette]

Interesting read.

After Bush Tax Cuts, Payments By Wealthy Actually Increased - Forbes

Save your breath. None of the idiots on the left want to hear that.

Raising taxes on the "evil" rich is the only thing they want to hear. LOL

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Still with the perpetual dumb act. If you eliminate tax deductions you increase the taxes paid. Broadening the tax base means that people who pay no income taxes now will be paying taxes after their deductions are eliminated which obviously is a tax increase.

He isn't raising taxes on anyone in the middle class and you have yet to provide proof of such a claim from within Romney's plans. Why don't you back that up with Romney's plan for me? If you can I'll say you are right.

I'm not sure why you think its dumb for me to not believe something you have yet to prove.

I already posted the video and transcript where he says he is going to limit deductions and exemptions. Limiting deductions and exemptions causes people to pay more in taxes. Causing people to pay more in taxes is a tax increase.

i don't think you are dumb, I think you are PLAYING dumb to avoid admitting that limiting deductions and exemptions raises taxes.

I'm not playing dumb I'm waiting for you to provide the evidence of what these limitations are specifically. The ones I see in his plan don't impact the middle class. Please point out where I'm wrong from within his plan and, like i've said, I'll say "ok then there it is".

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

If republicans successfully sell a middle class tax hike to pay for further tax cuts for the wealthy they will know without a doubt that they will be able to sell anything, they should start using the old conman term "mark" instead of "voter" to describe their base. BTW I have a wonderful toll bridge investment opportunity if anyone is interested.

What is this mythical middle class tax hike you claim Romeny has proposed?

Where have you been? If the tax burden is successfully shifted downward as republicans have long longed to achieve, where do you think it will go? It's not like the poor have anything to spare after states have already hiked all manner of fees, sales and excise taxes.

I've been in america for 36 years and even had Romney for my Governor.

What is this specific tax hike on the middle class he proposes? Can you please direct me to his actual plans or personal statments showing his middle class tax hikes?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

If republicans successfully sell a middle class tax hike to pay for further tax cuts for the wealthy they will know without a doubt that they will be able to sell anything, they should start using the old conman term "mark" instead of "voter" to describe their base. BTW I have a wonderful toll bridge investment opportunity if anyone is interested.

What is this mythical middle class tax hike you claim Romeny has proposed?

I have explained it in my previous two posts (here and here).

Give me a few minutes and I will read them and comment if I have comments to make, just catching up to the thread.

oh and thanks!

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

If republicans successfully sell a middle class tax hike to pay for further tax cuts for the wealthy they will know without a doubt that they will be able to sell anything, they should start using the old conman term "mark" instead of "voter" to describe their base. BTW I have a wonderful toll bridge investment opportunity if anyone is interested.

What is this mythical middle class tax hike you claim Romeny has proposed?

Again as has already been pointed out, limiting deductions and exemptions hikes the amount of taxes you pay, by making more of your income subject to taxation. Those parts of your income that were exempt from income taxes will now be taxable.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsTIIjKsmZU]Romney: My tax plan can't be scored - YouTube[/ame]

ROMNEY: What I say is we’re going to cut the top marginal rate across-the-board by 20 percent, and at the same time, we’re going to limit deductions and exemptions to pay for most of that and then additional growth will pay for the rest of that such that our plan does not increase the deficit.

I see where you and I are having trouble seeing eye to eye on this issue and it was Romney's own fault.

He plans to cut the marginal rate for everyone by 20%, you can see it right in his plan on his website. Either he misspoke in the interview condsidering he has also said 20% across the board in other places and his actual plan on his website says " •Make permanent, across-the-board 20 percent cut in marginal rates" Tax

I understand how you got the wrong idea now.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Interesting read.

After Bush Tax Cuts, Payments By Wealthy Actually Increased - Forbes

Save your breath. None of the idiots on the left want to hear that.

Raising taxes on the "evil" rich is the only thing they want to hear. LOL

I'll wait to respond until one of you posts an article about tax revenue that adjusts for inflation.

Until that time ... I won't hold my breath

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Let's say we eliminate ALL tax expenditures. No more mortgage interest rate deduction, no more child tax credits, etc.

This would increase revenues, certainly.

Let's say we then cut everyone's tax rate by 20 percent. If you were paying 33%, you now pay 26.4%.

The question then becomes, will you be paying more or less of your income to the federal government than you do now?

That question can only be answered by asking if you currently get more tax expenditures than you would get from a 20 percent cut.

Independent analysis has shown that the middle and lower incomes currently get more tax expenditures than they would get from a 20 percent cut, while the reverse is true for the wealthiest Americans.

So the rich would end up better off, and everyone else would end up worse off, tax-wise.

However, if we eliminate the mortgage interest tax deduction, the prices of houses would drop dramatically, thereby making them more accessible.

The mortgage interest tax deduction is an extremely regressive tax deduction.


There are lots of angles to consider. Not just looking only at the final tab on your tax bill. You also have to examine the consequences of tax reform, such as the drop in the prices of houses example.

But...the odds of Congress going along with eliminating the extremely popular mortgage interest rate deduction is a long shot to say the least. Americans just don't understand anything involving more than two moving parts.

So this means our collective stupidity would result in getting most of the downside and very little of the positive consequences.

Still, it should be done. We need some serious leadership on this. It must be done.

Too bad Mitt sucks at communication. He really, really, really sucks at it.

I think he sucks at math, too. More than he sucks at communication.

Do you have links to the data used in the independant studies? Maybe I've got it wrong, i'm willing to double check the facts and re-evaluate my position if you can provide me the sources.

Me personally, I make ~$40,000/year and the 20% cut will make it so I save 6,000 in taxes as I'm currently taxed at ~15% federally. My deductions are zero. So I'm not sure how you can say he is raising my middle class taxes but maybe he would raise other peoples this way. This is why I want the data used to come to that conclusion, I would like to see it myself so I know for a fact that what your saying is either right or wrong.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

The reason Romney’s plan doesn’t work is very simple. The size of the tax cut he’s proposing for the rich is larger than all of the tax expenditures that go to the rich put together. As such, it is mathematically impossible for him to keep his promise to make sure the top one percent keeps paying the same or more.

“Families with children currently receive 57 percent of the available tax expenditures examined in this exercise but 23 percent of the revenue reductions. Thus a reform that imposed an across-the-board reduction in tax expenditures would increase taxes much more on families with children than on childless adults.”

Nine takeaways on Romney’s tax plan

I have to take a WA Post editorial blog post with the same level of seriousness as I take a Fox News opinion broadcaster. However I will give him credit, his point about passing any tax reforms being extremely difficult is very valid, however when I dug into his claims on the tax policy center they didn't add up. http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/1001628-Base-Broadening-Tax-Reform.pdf

I say it doesn't add up because they use speculation on future economic conditions to come to their conclusion and any conclusions based off speculation are, well, speculation. They also add in Chairman Ryan's plan to Romney's plan when figuring their numbers...ryan's plan hasn't passed the senate so again they are making some big assumptions when figuring their numbers. You can see this evidenced in the footnotes throughout the document.

 

[g5000]

Interesting read.

After Bush Tax Cuts, Payments By Wealthy Actually Increased - Forbes

Their tax payments did not increase because they were taxed less. That is common sense, and only a simpleton would imply that is the case.

Their tax payments increased because the stock market boomed. The top one percent own 38.3 percent of all privately held stock.

The Dow went from 8601 in January 2003 to a peak of 14164 in October 2007. And that churn is why revenues increased.

That's why we see tax revenues plunge in Table 1 in your link for the years 2008 to present with no change in the tax margins. The Dow plunged from 14164 to 6626, and the churn has been substantially lower since. The rise in the Dow since the crash has been one of much lower volumes in trading.

We see the tax revenues slowly climbing back as the economy slowly climbs back.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Every bracket is cut by 20%.
Brackets don't work at the bottom? LOL!

No, Willard Mitt, rhymes with ...., said the TOP marginal rate will be cut by 20%.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsTIIjKsmZU]Romney: My tax plan can't be scored - YouTube[/ame]

ROMNEY: What I say is we’re going to cut the top marginal rate across-the-board by 20 percent, and at the same time, we’re going to limit deductions and exemptions to pay for most of that and then additional growth will pay for the rest of that such that our plan does not increase the deficit.

You gotta love and admire how CON$ can shamelessly lie in the face of both a video and transcript where he clearly says it is the TOP marginal rate that is cut "across the board."

Tax

Lie? I took that line right off his website.
Click the link yourself, you'll see.

You have both the video and the transcript clarifying that it is the TOP marginal rate that will be cut across the board, but still you try to cling to the most vague and misleading interpretation of across the board. Truly a testament to your dishonesty.

Did the video say the other brackets won't be cut 20%?
Why say "across the board" if you only mean the top bracket?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Actually, I'd love to hear how you think broadening the base, having more people paying taxes, doesn't in fact count as an increase in taxes.

How does having unemployed people get a job and start paying taxes count as a tax increase? How does more business startups count as a tax increase? How does overseas companies opening operations here, to take advantage of lower corporate rates, count as a tax increase? You tell me.

And how does Romney's plan accomplish that?

Cutting each bracket by 20% and cutting corporate rates to 25% is a good start.