Never trust anti gunners....they lie because they have an irrational fear of guns....

[JoeB131]

BINGO!!

This is what I have said numerous times. We need to vigorously prosecute violent crimes, especially gun crimes.

Put the violent felons away and keep them locked up.

Again, guy, we lock up 2 million people, we have another 7 million on probation and parole. We are one of the last industrialized nations that still executes people.

And none of doing this to the last guy with a gun really deters the next guy with a gun.

 

[JoeB131]

I see that you are still determined to try and make it look as though anyone who does not allow nazis to be shot for what they think must be a nazi?

And it is equally obvious that you have no problem lying over and over again.

I'm betting you wept bitterly when the history teacher told you Germany lost WWII.

 

[WinterBorn]

BINGO!!

This is what I have said numerous times. We need to vigorously prosecute violent crimes, especially gun crimes.

Put the violent felons away and keep them locked up.

Again, guy, we lock up 2 million people, we have another 7 million on probation and parole. We are one of the last industrialized nations that still executes people.

And none of doing this to the last guy with a gun really deters the next guy with a gun.

Are you trying to make a point or are you really this ignorant? In our discussions, I have stated over and over that I would see the nonviolent drug offenders released. Make the prisons for ONLY violent felons and we have a smaller prison population and fewer parolees.

 

[WinterBorn]

I see that you are still determined to try and make it look as though anyone who does not allow nazis to be shot for what they think must be a nazi?

And it is equally obvious that you have no problem lying over and over again.

I'm betting you wept bitterly when the history teacher told you Germany lost WWII.

Still more nonsense instead of addressing the topic? But I guess you don't care if people are oppressed or persecuted, as long as it isn't you? That is the epitome of the quote of yours I had as my sig for a while.

 

[2aguy]

Joe, you are wrong. the ncvs is the worst of all the studies, they only counted deaths and ignored any other outcome where a gun was used, they did not specifically ask aout guns for self defense, and their method encouraged hiding gun ownership, since a fedearl agent sat down with the individual for the first contact.....

it is the only study that has numbers that low.....of the 19 studies done over 40 years by different researchers, both government and private the lowest number came from the 2013 obama cdc study that spent 10 million dollars...that number was 500,000. The lowest number of the other 17 studies was 776,ooo so the ncvs study was flawed, it wasn't even close to being accurate....but it is the only study you guys have so you cling to it in desperation......

 

[2aguy]

Again...the numbers of all the studies....not just the one the anti gun nuts cling to.....

Okay...again...here are all the studies that actually give numbers for guns used to save lives and stop crimes taken from the table I provided from guncite.com...

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717

Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIa 1978...2,141,512
DMIb...1978...1,098,409

Hart...1981...1.797,461

Ohio...1982...771,043
Mauser...1990...1,487,342

Gallup...1991...777,153

Gallup...1993...1,621,377
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,682

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036
And this from the clinton justice department...

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million
(Subsequent to Kleck's study, the Department of Justice sponsored a survey in 1994 titled, Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms (text,PDF). Using a smaller sample size than Kleck's, this survey estimated 1.5 million DGU's annually.)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
.(Lawrence Southwick, Jr.,Guns and Justifiable Homicide: Deterrence and Defense-concludes there are at least 400,000 "fewer violent crimes due to civilian self-defense use of guns" and at least "800,000 violent crimes are deterred each year because of gun ownership and use by civilians.")


From Obama's CDC...they spent 10 million dollars in 2013 for this study...

from slate.com an article on CDC obama's era...500-3 million defensive gun uses

Handguns suicides mass shootings deaths and self-defense Findings from a research report on gun violence.
7. Guns are used for self-defense often and effectively. “Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year … in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008,” says the report. The three million figure is probably high, “based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys.”
--------------------

"Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year."
As shown in the previous footnote, this study did not use a nationally representative population. To correct for this, Just Facts used the following equation:


As Kleck points out in his paper...



....can you answer the question...since none of these studies is lower than about 700,000 times a year....



I re ran the numbers with all of the studies and the average number of times guns are used to save lives and stop violent crime each year in the United States is 1.6 million....this includes Dr. Kleck's 2.5 million and the NCVS study..

8-9,000 gun murders a year vs. 1.6 million times, on average that a non law enforcement, non military, law abiding citizen stops a violent criminal attack or saves a life....

8-9,000 vs. 1.6 million....

Guns save far more lives than they take....even using the lowest numbers from anti gun biased studies.....

 

[2aguy]

Why the NCVS is wrong....

Forbes article on Cato institute study on defensive gun uses...they culled through reports to get their number...

Disarming the Myths Promoted By the Gun Control Lobby - Forbes

A National Crime Victimization Study (NCVS) which asked victims if they had used a gun in self-defense found that about 108,000 each year had done so. A big problem with the NCVS line of survey reasoning, however, is that it only includes those uses where a citizen kills a criminal, not when one is only wounded, is held by the intended victim until police arrive, or when brandishing a gun caused a criminal to flee.

For these reasons, the Cato researchers investigated published news reports which much more often reveal how Americans use guns in self-defense. The data set is derived from a collection of nearly 5,000 randomly selected incidents published between October 2003 and November 2011. Still, the authors also recognize limitations with this approach, since many defensive incidents are never reported by victims, or when they are, never get published. In fact, the overwhelming majority of the successful self-defense outcomes are those where the defendants’ guns are presented but never fired.

Most of the actual self-defense shootings in the Cato study didn’t involve concealed carry licenses, but more typically had to do with responses to residential invasions. Of these, 488 involved home burglaries. In addition, there were 1,227 incidents where intruders were induced to flee the scene by armed inhabitants, circumstances that might otherwise have resulted in injurious assaults including rapes and murders. There were 285 news accounts indicating that the defender had a concealed weapon license, which in the majority of these incidents took place outside a home or place of business. Pizza delivery drivers were common robbery targets.

 

[2aguy]

And Joe...you have your own standard....you claim 200 monsters are killed by law abiding citizens each year and that number is too small.....even your study...which is wrong....is 108,000, the actual NCVS numbers...not hemenway's, and 200 dead thugs is still too small even according to your standards....righ?

 

[JoeB131]

Still more nonsense instead of addressing the topic? But I guess you don't care if people are oppressed or persecuted, as long as it isn't you? That is the epitome of the quote of yours I had as my sig for a while.

I don't care if Nazis are persecuted. I also don't care if their deranged spawn are shot by federal agents.

Seriously, Sammy would have been a life-time criminal with his attitude. THink of all the money they saved by putting him down early.

 

[JoeB131]

And Joe...you have your own standard....you claim 200 monsters are killed by law abiding citizens each year and that number is too small.....even your study...which is wrong....is 108,000, the actual NCVS numbers...not hemenway's, and 200 dead thugs is still too small even according to your standards....righ?

YOu just went full retard.

We are not killing 108,000 people a year in self-defense. The total number of gun homicides is 11,500, and most of those are NOT justified.

The thing is, 32,000 gun deaths, 78,000 gun injuries and 300,000 gun crimes is not balanced out by 200 justifiable homicides and 65,000 DGU's.

 

[JoeB131]

Joe, you are wrong. the ncvs is the worst of all the studies, they only counted deaths and ignored any other outcome where a gun was used, they did not specifically ask aout guns for self defense, and their method encouraged hiding gun ownership, since a fedearl agent sat down with the individual for the first contact.....

guy, I'm not going to spend a fine Xmas Eve morning trying to teach you math.

 

[WinterBorn]

Still more nonsense instead of addressing the topic? But I guess you don't care if people are oppressed or persecuted, as long as it isn't you? That is the epitome of the quote of yours I had as my sig for a while.

I don't care if Nazis are persecuted. I also don't care if their deranged spawn are shot by federal agents.

Seriously, Sammy would have been a life-time criminal with his attitude. THink of all the money they saved by putting him down early.

Yeah, federal agents shooting people who have committed no crime is something you and your ilk would cheer. I find it disgusting. As do most rational people.

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah, federal agents shooting people who have committed no crime is something you and your ilk would cheer. I find it disgusting. As do most rational people.

they committed a crime. They sold illegal weapons. They shot at federal agents.

 

[2aguy]

And Joe...you have your own standard....you claim 200 monsters are killed by law abiding citizens each year and that number is too small.....even your study...which is wrong....is 108,000, the actual NCVS numbers...not hemenway's, and 200 dead thugs is still too small even according to your standards....righ?

YOu just went full retard.

We are not killing 108,000 people a year in self-defense. The total number of gun homicides is 11,500, and most of those are NOT justified.

The thing is, 32,000 gun deaths, 78,000 gun injuries and 300,000 gun crimes is not balanced out by 200 justifiable homicides and 65,000 DGU's.

Joe...your vaunted NCVS study puts defensive gun uses at 108,000 a year....hemenway cut it down to 65,000.....

 

[2aguy]

And Joe...you have your own standard....you claim 200 monsters are killed by law abiding citizens each year and that number is too small.....even your study...which is wrong....is 108,000, the actual NCVS numbers...not hemenway's, and 200 dead thugs is still too small even according to your standards....righ?

YOu just went full retard.

We are not killing 108,000 people a year in self-defense. The total number of gun homicides is 11,500, and most of those are NOT justified.

The thing is, 32,000 gun deaths, 78,000 gun injuries and 300,000 gun crimes is not balanced out by 200 justifiable homicides and 65,000 DGU's.

The NCVS numbers are these....

How Often Do We Use Guns in Self-Defense - Businessweek

Hemenway finds more reliable an annual federal government research project, called the National Crime Victimization Survey, which yields estimates in the neighborhood of 100,000 defensive gun uses per year. Making various reasonable-sounding adjustments, other social scientists have suggested that perhaps a figure somewhere between 250,000 and 370,000 might be more accurate.

So again....you are arguing with your own source...right? the NCVS says at least 100,000...and yet you say 200 gun deaths of monsters is too little....right?

 

[WinterBorn]

Yeah, federal agents shooting people who have committed no crime is something you and your ilk would cheer. I find it disgusting. As do most rational people.

they committed a crime. They sold illegal weapons. They shot at federal agents.

No, they did not. Even the FBI admitted that the charges against Randy Weaver were shakey, at best. And sammy never sold anything to anyone. He did shoot at intruders on their land. But he had no way of knowing they were federal agents. The feds hadn't been around in at least a month, and those agents were wearing no insignia or visible identification. Plus, they shot a 14 year old boy in the back. But those are your heros. lol

 

[JoeB131]

Joe...your vaunted NCVS study puts defensive gun uses at 108,000 a year....hemenway cut it down to 65,000.....

Guy, again, not going to bother to educate you on math on Christmas. You can't fix stupid, Cleetus.

 

[JoeB131]

No, they did not. Even the FBI admitted that the charges against Randy Weaver were shakey, at best. And sammy never sold anything to anyone. He did shoot at intruders on their land. But he had no way of knowing they were federal agents. The feds hadn't been around in at least a month, and those agents were wearing no insignia or visible identification. Plus, they shot a 14 year old boy in the back. But those are your heros. lol

Guy you can come up wiht all the excuses in the world, but only serious fuckheads send 14 years olds out with automatic weapons.

 

[2aguy]

Joe...your vaunted NCVS study puts defensive gun uses at 108,000 a year....hemenway cut it down to 65,000.....

Guy, again, not going to bother to educate you on math on Christmas. You can't fix stupid, Cleetus.

Um....it's not Christmas....I won't educate you about Calendars and the what the numbers on them mean.....

 

[2aguy]

Have a Merry Christmas Joe....tomorrow.....