Netanyahu sets implementation of Trump’s Gaza relocation plan as new condition for ending war

[gipper]

No I want to liberate the people from Hamas

You attack the people trying to do it

Clearly you support Hamas

Even Israeli media reports what you apparently are completely unaware of.

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Israel at War, Day 597 ||Swiss Authorities Exploring Probe Into U.S.-backed Gaza Aid Group​

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Approaching 600 Days of War, Hostages' Families Call on the Public to Protest​

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Nine Siblings Under 12 Killed in Israeli Strike in Gaza, Medical Sources Say​

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IDF Use of Human Shields in Gaza Was Systemic, Soldiers, Former Detainees Say​

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Netanyahu's Choice for Shin Bet Chief Should Concern All Israelis​

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To Defeat Netanyahu, the Israeli Left Needs to Learn to Speak Jewish​

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'Until the Hostages Return, We're Not in Post-trauma, We're in Active Trauma'​

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While Eyes Are on Gaza, Settlers Expel Palestinians From the West Bank​

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[struth]

Even Israeli media reports what you apparently are completely unaware of.

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Approaching 600 Days of War, Hostages' Families Call on the Public to Protest​

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Nine Siblings Under 12 Killed in Israeli Strike in Gaza, Medical Sources Say​

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IDF Use of Human Shields in Gaza Was Systemic, Soldiers, Former Detainees Say​

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Of course they are reporting on the horrors of your Hamas pals

 

[80zephyr]

Its hard to believe any human being can support this, but you do.

What do you support? Did it ever occur to you that they caused this suffering to themselves?

Israel is in a war. In a war, you kill people, just like we did in WWII. If they don't want to be killed, maybe they

should get better leaders.

 

[MJB12741]

Bottom line for Hamas. Start a conflict - Pay the consequences. And still not all hostages released.

 

[Shusha]

A permanent ceasefire and the release of all hostages is the first step towards this. Israel has gone as far as it can militarily (acknowledged by its own experts) and this is now political.

What they ARE SAYING, INCLUDING MANY IN ISRAEL is this is no longer a just and defensive war. Even statements from those in leadership indicate that (under a veneer of technical legal correctness).

Israel has crossed a line now.

I am not going to disagree that we are moving out of the military stage and into the governmental stage. The fact that this is happening does not suddenly make the acts and intents unjust or non-defensive.

Israel has absolutely crossed a line. Israel is taking responsibility for the people of Gaza to ensure they receive aid directly as a first step in applying governmental authority and sovereignty. It is far from ideal for anyone, but for the people of Gaza it will be much better than any life they had under Hamas for the past 20 years.

 

[gipper]

I am not going to disagree that we are moving out of the military stage and into the governmental stage. The fact that this is happening does not suddenly make the acts and intents unjust or non-defensive.

Israel has absolutely crossed a line. Israel is taking responsibility for the people of Gaza to ensure they receive aid directly as a first step in applying governmental authority and sovereignty. It is far from ideal for anyone, but for the people of Gaza it will be much better than any life they had under Hamas for the past 20 years.

All but two governments in the world agree that the slaughter of Gazans and decimation of Gaza must stop. None – but these two governments – fund it openly, and applaud it behind closed doors. The strip has been buried, along with many of its men, women and children, their belongings, their pets and livestock, in the dust and rubble of what was before. Those living are now being starved and chased in circles by the truly pathetic IDF, stupidly sharing proof of their criminality on social media, oddly expecting that there will be no trials, punishment, or retaliation.
The spiraling fear and narcissistic rage of 7 million Israelis has been created, not calmed, by a state experiment – political Zionism – gone horribly wrong. Last century’s racialist colonialism, clothed in a flawed mythology, veiled by a false religiosity, shaded by a hatred of stateless tribes by a people who themselves traded badly, tribe for state. This admixture of chaos is today evident on every dubious and shifting border of Israel.
The world begs that the genocide stop, that the perpetrators of genocide be brought to justice. But global begging has not worked. Neither has the growing sense of global guilt, or even late-stage panicked reaction to the imminent Zionist-required starvation of two million people for the collective crime of not being European or Jewish in Palestine.
The IDF tsunami in Gaza has never been a military conflict, nor a defensive operation. Instead, it is the defining symptom of a diseased and defective state that, in its ache to politically survive, is itself committing committing political suicide. It is time for triage, not only for Gaza, but for Israel itself.
An Excellent Solution to a Pressing Problem

 

[gipper]

Bottom line for Hamas. Start a conflict - Pay the consequences. And still not all hostages released.

Get informed. Don’t be like a Nazi.

This from a Jew…

"It's not just Israeli leaders who support the genocide. You don't see any protest among the Israeli public. It's shocking. It's sickening. You have to file all this under the Nazification of Israel. They're like Germans under Hitler."

~ John Mearsheimer

 

[gipper]

I am not going to disagree that we are moving out of the military stage and into the governmental stage. The fact that this is happening does not suddenly make the acts and intents unjust or non-defensive.

Israel has absolutely crossed a line. Israel is taking responsibility for the people of Gaza to ensure they receive aid directly as a first step in applying governmental authority and sovereignty. It is far from ideal for anyone, but for the people of Gaza it will be much better than any life they had under Hamas for the past 20 years.

Make sure you boycott the following brands.

 

[Shusha]

This isn’t about those wishing wishing to flee, this is about a cynical plan to force the permanent expulsion of an entire population in the cynical guise of proposing it as a “humanitarian solution” to make it internationally acceptable.

The condition for ending the war, stated by the PM is the “Trump solution”.

Transcript of Netanyahu's recent speech (translated from Hebrew; emphasis mine):

"...All the hostages return home. Hamas hands over its weapons and leaves power. Their leadership is expelled from Gaza, or what is left of them, and Gaza is completely free of weapons. And we implement Trump's plan. It's a good plan and makes a difference and it means something very simple: that the residents of Gaza who want to leave, can leave. So anyone who calls us to end the war right before achieving these goals is actually calling for keeping Hamas in power..."

The only expulsion Netanyahu is calling for here is for the remaining Hamas leaders to go back to their luxury apartments in Doha.

 

[toomuchtime_]

It isn’t about appeasing anyone or punishing anyone, particularly world wide ethnic groups like Arabs and Jews.

Israel’s current government needs a “forever war” and golly jee they are doing their best.

Influential members of Israel’s government have openly stated what the new goal is: the complete destruction (we will flatten) of Gaza so there is nothing left for them to return to and the permanent expulsion of the Palestinian people from Gaza. Trump’s Gaza “relocation plan” is now the NEW condition for ending the war, the new goal instead of “total victory”, Netanyahu finally openly stated it. Israel is now also openly and unapologetically using starvation as a weapon of war. Have you listened to what some of his coalition has called for? Even Israel’s citizen’s are angry at the conduct of the war, the constantly changing goals, reservists worn out and disgusted and the hostages still in captivity.

It is these things thar Britain,France and Canada have become disgusted by, not “punishing the Jews”.

As always, nothing but bullshit in your post. It is Britain, France and Canada who have advocated for a forever war, not Israel. This is the fifth war the so called Palestinians have started in the twenty years since Israel left Gaza, and in their joint statement, these three morally compromised governments say they back the Arab plan for Gaza, which is to stop the fighting, rebuild Gaza and leave Hamas in charge while all history and experience tells us this will lead to the Palestinians starting a new war in a few years.

In their joint statement, they acknowledge Israel has committed no breach of international, continue unsubstantiated claims of starvation when the truth is only food insecurity exists, and outright lie that the US and Israel are proposing the forced displacement of the population of Gaza. Perhaps most bizarre of all, they refuse to acknowledge that not only did the Palestinians start this war but have adamantly refused to end it.

How can these three governments claim to support Israe's right to defend itself even as they huddle in the gutter with those whose only ambition is the destruction of Israel?

 

[Failzero]

Equal # s of Gazans to ( Egypt ) ( Jordan) ( Cyprus ) ( Syria ) ( Libya ) ( Lebanon ) ( Tunisia ) ( Morocco ) ( Turkey )

 

[Shusha]

Balony.

That is not what is reported by the people themselves or the aid workers who remain there.

It set up a complete and total seige (in its own words) for how months now?

This is a dilution of the term "starvation" as a method of creating heightened emotional response. There is no evidence of real starvation in the true meaning of the word, which is: the state of having no food for a prolonged period, often causing death. If there was widespread starvation in Gaza, we would be seeing evidence of it. And news reporters wouldn't have to sub in a photo of an actually starving Yemeni child.

Israel took into consideration reports by the UN and NGOs about the quantity of available food, and conducted its own investigations. Tens of thousands of trucks of food and aid went into Gaza during the ceasefire. Israel determined there was an adequate supply of food to last an estimated four to six months. Long prior to the risk of famine and shortage of food quantity, Israel reintroduced aid AND developed a comprehensive plan to ensure delivery directly to those in need. This was a well-thought-out and researched plan, not an act of impulse or rage.

Anecdotal interviews with small numbers of people in Gaza (such as those in, I think, the Amnesty report) are not reliable evidence. Rhetorical language such as "starving" is common. So common, in fact, that I routinely use it when my puppies begin asking me for their supper. "Oh, do you think you are starving?"

Be clear what I am NOT saying. There is hunger in Gaza. There is likely some level of malnourishment. There is an insufficient supply of specialty and medically necessary foods. There are parents who are skipping meals so their children can eat. I deny none of this. There are also fully functioning restaurants, shops, bakeries with access to not only adequate nutrition, but also highly desired items. It is fundamentally a distribution problem with Hamas controlling the supply, theft of aid, exploitation of aid on black markets, exorbitant prices for basic foodstuffs.

The destruction of the infrastructure needed for aid without first setting up alternative infrastructure and restriction of aid to a handful of locations within Gaza for over 2 MILLION people is criminal!

No, it is criminal for Hamas to steal, hoard, and prevent access to aid meant for the people it governs. Israel is correcting that problem, not causing it.

This “blood libel” that seems to now be the way of shutting up criticism! We can Russia, we can criticize actions in the Balkans, but we can’t Israel!

Not at all. Criticize away! Bring it!

Just make sure your criticisms are accurate and based on evidence and not blatant falsehoods. "14,000 babies will die of starvation in the next 48 hours!" is a blood libel. "There is famine in Gaza!" is a blood libel. "Children are starving in Gaza!" is a blood libel. Don't circulate blood libels, and you won't be accused of it.

Just from a practical point of view:
Pretty much all experienced independent aid organizations have left and shut down, with them their experience, connections and knowledge.
Now Israel is going to step in and aid for millions of people, with none of that expertise or infrastructure to draw on.

Israelis, when given the opportunity to act freely, are remarkably capable of organizing quickly and efficiently under circumstances such as this.

 

[Coyote]

I am not going to disagree that we are moving out of the military stage and into the governmental stage. The fact that this is happening does not suddenly make the acts and intents unjust or non-defensive.

Israel has absolutely crossed a line. Israel is taking responsibility for the people of Gaza to ensure they receive aid directly as a first step in applying governmental authority and sovereignty. It is far from ideal for anyone, but for the people of Gaza it will be much better than any life they had under Hamas for the past 20 years.

Israel is only “taking responsibility” under extreme international pressure from its most consistently staunch allies.

At the start of March, Netanyahu announced that he had cut off the entry of all food and other supplies into Gaza. No aid has been allowed in for almost two and a half months. Using starvation as a weapon IS an wat crime.

International pressure, and finally intense pressure from Israel’s most consistent allies finally caused a small amount of aid to be allowed in.

Why did they relent? Bad optics. As Netanyahu said even Israel’s allies can’t tolerate images of mass famine.

And now, with 2.1 million desperate starving people, providing aid is even more challenging dangerous and violent. 90 some truckloads is a joke, a way of being able to say they are technically allowing aid in.

 

[Coyote]

This is a dilution of the term "starvation" as a method of creating heightened emotional response. There is no evidence of real starvation in the true meaning of the word, which is: the state of having no food for a prolonged period, often causing death. If there was widespread starvation in Gaza, we would be seeing evidence of it. And news reporters wouldn't have to sub in a photo of an actually starving Yemeni child.

I think we (as in opposing sides of this issue) are parsing the term “starvation” with a fine toothed comb in order justify action or inaction.

We define starvation as images of Biafra we saw growing up, children with swollen bellies and stick thin limbs. That is the end result. It doesn’t star there.

Minimal food, enough to keep minimum life, is still starvation. Those who survived the Seige of Leningrad were able to do so by extraordinary means and minimal food. It was still starvation.

Israel took into consideration reports by the UN and NGOs about the quantity of available food, and conducted its own investigations. Tens of thousands of trucks of food and aid went into Gaza during the ceasefire. Israel determined there was an adequate supply of food to last an estimated four to six months. Long prior to the risk of famine and shortage of food quantity, Israel reintroduced aid AND developed a comprehensive plan to ensure delivery directly to those in need. This was a well-thought-out and researched plan, not an act of impulse or rage.

From what I read, Israel was allowing approximately 600 trucks in a day during the ceasefire. This after a protracted period of minimal to no aid. The ceasefire was barely two months.

Every time Israel relented and allowed in aid, it was only under intense pressure from its allies.

I do not think it was impulsive. But I question claims of “well thought out and researched”.

Anecdotal interviews with small numbers of people in Gaza (such as those in, I think, the Amnesty report) are not reliable evidence. Rhetorical language such as "starving" is common. So common, in fact, that I routinely use it when my puppies begin asking me for their supper. "Oh, do you think you are starving?"

Of course your puppies are starving, just ask them

Anecdotal evidence is not necessarily “evidence”, I would agree there. But also have accounts by medical workers and aid workers who have experience working in very bad situations, other than Gaza.

Be clear what I am NOT saying. There is hunger in Gaza. There is likely some level of malnourishment. There is an insufficient supply of specialty and medically necessary foods. There are parents who are skipping meals so their children can eat. I deny none of this. There are also fully functioning restaurants, shops, bakeries with access to not only adequate nutrition, but also highly desired items. It is fundamentally a distribution problem with Hamas controlling the supply, theft of aid, exploitation of aid on black markets, exorbitant prices for basic foodstuffs.

I agree, there is a distribution problem, which has often been the case with getting aid to desperate people and desperation and hunger breeds violence and opportunistic criminality.

Aid is not getting to where it is needed in the quantities that it is need for 2.1million people. Malnutrition is the first stage of starvation.

It’s time to end the war and work on po,itical solutions.

No, it is criminal for Hamas to steal, hoard, and prevent access to aid meant for the people it governs. Israel is correcting that problem, not causing it.

Is Israel correcting it or is Israel, along with Hamas part of the problem?

It is extremely difficult to quantify how much aid Hamas actually diverts and Israel has offered little concrete evidence of systemic diversion of aid by Hamas. There are however reports of overall widespread lawlessness and criminal gangs along supply routes. This isn’t unique to this conflict. What is unique, and possibly criminal is closing off all aid and instituting a siege.

Not at all. Criticize away! Bring it!

Just make sure your criticisms are accurate and based on evidence and not blatant falsehoods. "14,000 babies will die of starvation in the next 48 hours!" is a blood libel. "There is famine in Gaza!" is a blood libel. "Children are starving in Gaza!" is a blood libel. Don't circulate blood libels, and you won't be accused of it.

I see your point, however, the threat of famine is real, not blood libel.

Israelis, when given the opportunity to act freely, are remarkably capable of organizing quickly and efficiently under circumstances such as this.

I would agree it’s possible, but likely given the current government? I don’t think so and I really would like to see evidence beyond just claims.

 

[yidnar]

Except it’s not a war. It’s genocide and ethnic cleaning. Obviously.

Do you hate Palestinians? Do you think they are all terrorists? Do you think Israel is the only democracy in the ME? If Israel laid down their arms, the Arabs would slaughter them? Does Israel only want peace? Do you think Palestinians have contributed nothing to humanity?

Hamas declared all out war with no rules on Oct 7 ..

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I think we (as in opposing sides of this issue) are parsing the term “starvation” with a fine toothed comb in order justify action or inaction.

We define starvation as images of Biafra we saw growing up, children with swollen bellies and stick thin limbs. That is the end result. It doesn’t star there.

Minimal food, enough to keep minimum life, is still starvation. Those who survived the Seige of Leningrad were able to do so by extraordinary means and minimal food. It was still starvation.





From what I read, Israel was allowing approximately 600 trucks in a day during the ceasefire. This after a protracted period of minimal to no aid. The ceasefire was barely two months.

Every time Israel relented and allowed in aid, it was only under intense pressure from its allies.

I do not think it was impulsive. But I question claims of “well thought out and researched”.




Of course your puppies are starving, just ask them

Anecdotal evidence is not necessarily “evidence”, I would agree there. But also have accounts by medical workers and aid workers who have experience working in very bad situations, other than Gaza.



I agree, there is a distribution problem, which has often been the case with getting aid to desperate people and desperation and hunger breeds violence and opportunistic criminality.

Aid is not getting to where it is needed in the quantities that it is need for 2.1million people. Malnutrition is the first stage of starvation.

It’s time to end the war and work on po,itical solutions.


Is Israel correcting it or is Israel, along with Hamas part of the problem?

It is extremely difficult to quantify how much aid Hamas actually diverts and Israel has offered little concrete evidence of systemic diversion of aid by Hamas. There are however reports of overall widespread lawlessness and criminal gangs along supply routes. This isn’t unique to this conflict. What is unique, and possibly criminal is closing off all aid and instituting a siege.



I see your point, however, the threat of famine is real, not blood libel.


I would agree it’s possible, but likely given the current government? I don’t think so and I really would like to see evidence beyond just claims.

Did the US have a responsibility to feed German and Japanese civilians
while we were still fighting their military?

 

[Failzero]

Hamas declared all out war with no rules on Oct 7 ..

Well said Sir !

 

[Coyote]

Did the US have a responsibility to feed German and Japanese civilians
while we were still fighting their military?

I don’t think that what constitutes “obligations” under international law existed then. It was WW2 that led to the development of the Geneva Conventions.

But your question is deceptive. It isn’t about having an obligation to feed them, it is about setting a siege and preventing them from accessing food.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I don’t think that what constitutes “obligations” under international law existed then. It was WW2 that led to the development of the Geneva Conventions.

But your question is deceptive. It isn’t about having an obligation to feed them, it is about setting a siege and preventing them from accessing food.

Did we allow Japan to ship food into their home islands, or did we set a siege?

 

[Coyote]

Transcript of Netanyahu's recent speech (translated from Hebrew; emphasis mine):

"...All the hostages return home. Hamas hands over its weapons and leaves power. Their leadership is expelled from Gaza, or what is left of them, and Gaza is completely free of weapons. And we implement Trump's plan. It's a good plan and makes a difference and it means something very simple: that the residents of Gaza who want to leave, can leave. So anyone who calls us to end the war right before achieving these goals is actually calling for keeping Hamas in power..."

The only expulsion Netanyahu is calling for here is for the remaining Hamas leaders to go back to their luxury apartments in Doha.

My emphasis.

What is Trumps plan?

Permanent relocation of the Palestinians in Gaza. That is expulsion.

Residents who “want to leave”…they may not have a choice if they want to keep living. They should be able to leave, they should not forced to leave. And unlike the earlier war, they should have the right to return.