Netanyahu causes uproar by linking Palestinians to Holocaust
- Thread starter Coyote
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You can't bring yourself to even read it can you? It's fascinating. And it's not an Islamonazi source.
And who publishes the polls ?
As you have been told the books went out of fashion, and so cant be found
How will that prevent the Palestinians from declaring state, all it will mean is they will have to operate under occupation. They will have to generate their own income and set taxes on everyone, Then inform Israel that they will set the laws in future and will, police the areas they are in control of and arrest any criminals. Once they show they are capable of doing this and they keep the peace then Israel will be asked to vacate the west bank by the UN.
But of course the Palestinians wont do this as it will cost them a lot of money in aid and they wont have an excuse to attack Israeli children anymore.
Who wrote and for who
Did you as I see this
A long series of enactments deprived Jewish people of their rights as citizens, prevented them from fulfilling their religious obligations, and excluded them from the society of their fellows.
Political change was partnered by change in the legal status of the Jewish population: although it is not always clear what happened during the Muslim conquests, one thing is certain. The result of the conquests was, by and large, to make the Jews second-class citizens.
CMike
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Netanyahu was spot on...as usual.
His point is this isn't about land. The arab leadership wanted to kill all the Jews before Israel captured the West Bank and Gaza, and even before Israel became a state.
Adelson-linked think tank article preceded Netanyahu’s Hitler-Mufti claim - Israel News
Adelson-linked Think Tank Article Preceded Netanyahu’s Hitler-Mufti Claim
New Hampshire philosophy professor wrote in March that in his 1941 meeting with the Nazi leader, the Mufti insisted on the Final Solution.
At press time, Spoerl could not be reached for comment and the Prime Minister’s Office did not return queries on whether the article was read by Netanyahu or served as a historical source for his speech.
Spoerl traces the Mufti’s call to murder Jews to the 1920’s and 30’s, saying that his genocidal ideology developed separately from that of the Nazis. He describes al-Husseini as having single-handedly compelled Hitler in 1941 to stop the emigration of Jews to Palestine and elsewhere. Moving on the Berlin meeting between the two, he writes “Immediately after his meeting with al-Husseini, Hitler ordered Heydrich to organize a conference within ten days to prepare 'the final solution of the Jewish question.' This was to be the infamous Wannsee Conference, which was postponed to January 1942 because of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and Germany’s subsequent declaration of war on the United States.”
...
“The widespread adoption of Hajj Amin al-Husseini’s anti-Semitic rhetoric by Palestinian, Arab, and Muslim leaders shows another kind of complicity in the Holocaust. When Hamas and Muslim Brotherhood leaders say that Hitler gave the Jews the punishment they deserved, they are vicariously participating in and endorsing the Holocaust.” These Palestinians, he writes, are Hitler’s “soul-mates”.
His point is this isn't about land. The arab leadership wanted to kill all the Jews before Israel captured the West Bank and Gaza, and even before Israel became a state.
Adelson-linked think tank article preceded Netanyahu’s Hitler-Mufti claim - Israel News
Adelson-linked Think Tank Article Preceded Netanyahu’s Hitler-Mufti Claim
New Hampshire philosophy professor wrote in March that in his 1941 meeting with the Nazi leader, the Mufti insisted on the Final Solution.
At press time, Spoerl could not be reached for comment and the Prime Minister’s Office did not return queries on whether the article was read by Netanyahu or served as a historical source for his speech.
Spoerl traces the Mufti’s call to murder Jews to the 1920’s and 30’s, saying that his genocidal ideology developed separately from that of the Nazis. He describes al-Husseini as having single-handedly compelled Hitler in 1941 to stop the emigration of Jews to Palestine and elsewhere. Moving on the Berlin meeting between the two, he writes “Immediately after his meeting with al-Husseini, Hitler ordered Heydrich to organize a conference within ten days to prepare 'the final solution of the Jewish question.' This was to be the infamous Wannsee Conference, which was postponed to January 1942 because of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and Germany’s subsequent declaration of war on the United States.”
...
“The widespread adoption of Hajj Amin al-Husseini’s anti-Semitic rhetoric by Palestinian, Arab, and Muslim leaders shows another kind of complicity in the Holocaust. When Hamas and Muslim Brotherhood leaders say that Hitler gave the Jews the punishment they deserved, they are vicariously participating in and endorsing the Holocaust.” These Palestinians, he writes, are Hitler’s “soul-mates”.
CMike
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Netanyahu was spot on.
Important too.
Netanyahu: Arab Leader Made Pact with Hitler Against Jews
Netanyahu later clarified that his greater point was to say that, far before the concept of an Arab-Muslim Palestinian ever existed or before the modern state of Israel was declared, Islamic leaders in the land still sought to eliminate the Jews.
“My intention was not to absolve Hitler of his responsibility,” he later explained. “But rather to show that the forefathers of the Palestinian nation, without a country and without the so-called occupation, without land and without settlements, even then aspired to systematic incitement to exterminate the Jews.”
“Hitler was responsible for the Final Solution to exterminate six million Jews; he made the decision,” a statement from the Israeli Prime Minister’s office added. “It is equally absurd to ignore the role played by the mufti, Haj Amin al -Husseini, a war criminal, for encouraging and urging Hitler.”
The Israeli Prime Minister is speaking of the same Mufti who once said, broadcasting in Arabic from Berlin, “Kill the Jews wherever you find them – this is Allah’s will.”
Whether or not the Mufti actually convinced Hitler to go forward with his plans is a fair topic for debate.
However, the Mufti did support and encourage Hitler in his quest for worldwide Jewish extermination, as proven through historical transcripts provided by the U.S. Holocaust Museum.
In November 1941, the two leaders met in Berlin to discuss the future of the Jewish people living in British Mandate Palestine. Hitler told Husseini that the “struggle against a Jewish homeland in Palestine” would be part of his larger efforts against the Jews. Hitler assured him that when the German army advanced on the Middle East, he would announce to the Arab world that “the hour of liberation is at hand.” Their only goal, Hitler said, “would be the annihilation of Jewry living in Arab space under the protection of British power.”
Moreover, according to the prosecution team during the Nuremberg trials, the Mufti did indeed play a role in facilitating the annihilation of European Jews.
“The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry for the Germans and had been the permanent collaborator and advisor of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of the plan… According to my opinion, the Grand Mufti, who had been in Berlin since 1941, played a role in the decision of the German government to exterminate the European Jews,” an SS officer admitted during the trials.
The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, a man who is revered by some as the founding father of the Palestinian movement, was undoubtedly a supporter of the extermination of Jews, an uncomfortable fact that the international pro-Palestinian Left has not addressed in its criticism of Netanyahu.
Important too.
Netanyahu: Arab Leader Made Pact with Hitler Against Jews
Netanyahu later clarified that his greater point was to say that, far before the concept of an Arab-Muslim Palestinian ever existed or before the modern state of Israel was declared, Islamic leaders in the land still sought to eliminate the Jews.
“My intention was not to absolve Hitler of his responsibility,” he later explained. “But rather to show that the forefathers of the Palestinian nation, without a country and without the so-called occupation, without land and without settlements, even then aspired to systematic incitement to exterminate the Jews.”
“Hitler was responsible for the Final Solution to exterminate six million Jews; he made the decision,” a statement from the Israeli Prime Minister’s office added. “It is equally absurd to ignore the role played by the mufti, Haj Amin al -Husseini, a war criminal, for encouraging and urging Hitler.”
The Israeli Prime Minister is speaking of the same Mufti who once said, broadcasting in Arabic from Berlin, “Kill the Jews wherever you find them – this is Allah’s will.”
Whether or not the Mufti actually convinced Hitler to go forward with his plans is a fair topic for debate.
However, the Mufti did support and encourage Hitler in his quest for worldwide Jewish extermination, as proven through historical transcripts provided by the U.S. Holocaust Museum.
In November 1941, the two leaders met in Berlin to discuss the future of the Jewish people living in British Mandate Palestine. Hitler told Husseini that the “struggle against a Jewish homeland in Palestine” would be part of his larger efforts against the Jews. Hitler assured him that when the German army advanced on the Middle East, he would announce to the Arab world that “the hour of liberation is at hand.” Their only goal, Hitler said, “would be the annihilation of Jewry living in Arab space under the protection of British power.”
Moreover, according to the prosecution team during the Nuremberg trials, the Mufti did indeed play a role in facilitating the annihilation of European Jews.
“The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry for the Germans and had been the permanent collaborator and advisor of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of the plan… According to my opinion, the Grand Mufti, who had been in Berlin since 1941, played a role in the decision of the German government to exterminate the European Jews,” an SS officer admitted during the trials.
The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, a man who is revered by some as the founding father of the Palestinian movement, was undoubtedly a supporter of the extermination of Jews, an uncomfortable fact that the international pro-Palestinian Left has not addressed in its criticism of Netanyahu.
CMike
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More
The protocols of the Hitler -Mufti pact were presented as evidence against the Mufti in the Nuremberg war crimes trials, explicitly state that Hitler would exterminate the Jews in Europe, while the Mufti would enlist Nazi aid to exterminate Jews in Palestine, so as to establish a “JudenRein” state of Palestine.
To that end, the Mufti ensconced himself in Hitler’s bunker, from where he recruited an Islamic unit of the Waffen SS, which actively engaged in the mass murder of Jews, while issuing Arabic language appeals on Nazi radio which incited Moslems to join the Nazi cause and to prepare for mass murder of Jews in Palestine.
The Protocols of the Nuremberg conviction of the Mufti were published in the 1946 book, MUFTI OF JERUSALEM, authored by Journalist Maurice Pearlman, who was appointed in 1948 as the first director of the Israel Government Press Office.
Pearlman cited affidavits of senior SS prosecution witnesses who testified that the Mufti, working directly under Eichmann and Himmler, identified the Mufti’s instrumental role in making sure that millions of Jews were murdered, and not ransomed.
No one denies the Mufti’s Arabic language radio broadcasts, his recruitment of the Islamic SS unit, and his active involvement in SS round ups of Jews in Yugosolvia.
And there is no doubt that Mufti was aware of the Final Solution, fully supported it, and sought to extend it to the Arab world
The affidavit of one of Eichmann’s subordinates, SS Hampsturmfuerer Dieter Wisliceny, who appeared as a witness for the Nuremberg prosecution, speaks for itself:
“The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry for the Germans and had been the permanent collaborator and advisor of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of the plan…According to my opinion, the Grand Mufti, who had been in Berlin since 1941, played a role in the decision of the German government to exterminate the European Jews, the importance of which must not be disregarded, He had repeatedly suggested to the various authorities with who had been in contact, above all before Hitler, Ribbentrop and Himmler, the extermination of European Jewry. He considered this as a comfortable solution of the Palestinian problem. In his messages broadcast from Berlin, he surpassed us in anti-Jewish attacks. He was one of Eichmann’s best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures…”
In 1961, when Eichmann was brought to justice in Jerusalem, Israel’s then foreign minister,, Golda Meir, called for the Mossad to apprehend the Mufti and to sit him alongside Eichmann on trial in Jerusalem
Maurice Pearlman traces the Mufti’s escape to Cairo, where Pearlman reported how the Mufti influenced the newly formed Arab League to spawn the charter of the Arab League, with an explicit statement that its purpose was to wipe out any Zionist entity that would soon come about.
Indeed, the Mufti inspired charter of the Arab League would soon form the basis of the Arab league declaration of war to destroy the nascent state of Israel in 1948.
The refusal of the UK to arrest the Mufti in Cairo, described by Pearlman, caused the head of the Zionist revisionists in the United States at the time, Ben Zion Netanyahu, father of Israel’s current Prime Minister, to launch an unsuccessful campaign to push the US to demand the arrest of the Mufti in Cairo.
A little known fact concerns the Mufti’s special relationship with a young relative in Cairo, who to the Mufti would affectionately give the name “Yassir Arafat”. In December 1996, Haaretz interviewed Yassir Arafat’s younger brother and sister, who said that the Mufti performed the role of a surrogate father figure and mentor to the young Arafat.
The failure of the Arab League, in 1948, to mobilize the Arabs of Palestine into an active war against the newly formed Jewish state led the Mufti to urge the Arab League, in 1964, to launch the PLO, the Palestine Liberation Organization, whose stated covenant of purpose was almost identical in language to the charter of the Arab League: to exterminate new state of Israel. Yet the focus of the PLO was to organize Arabs who remained in Israel along with the Arab refugees who languished in UNRWA refugee camps to organize an effective grass roots effort to liberate Palestine, all of Palestine, from Jewish rule.
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/legacy-of-the-mufti-and-hitler-the-facts-that-are-known/
The protocols of the Hitler -Mufti pact were presented as evidence against the Mufti in the Nuremberg war crimes trials, explicitly state that Hitler would exterminate the Jews in Europe, while the Mufti would enlist Nazi aid to exterminate Jews in Palestine, so as to establish a “JudenRein” state of Palestine.
To that end, the Mufti ensconced himself in Hitler’s bunker, from where he recruited an Islamic unit of the Waffen SS, which actively engaged in the mass murder of Jews, while issuing Arabic language appeals on Nazi radio which incited Moslems to join the Nazi cause and to prepare for mass murder of Jews in Palestine.
The Protocols of the Nuremberg conviction of the Mufti were published in the 1946 book, MUFTI OF JERUSALEM, authored by Journalist Maurice Pearlman, who was appointed in 1948 as the first director of the Israel Government Press Office.
Pearlman cited affidavits of senior SS prosecution witnesses who testified that the Mufti, working directly under Eichmann and Himmler, identified the Mufti’s instrumental role in making sure that millions of Jews were murdered, and not ransomed.
No one denies the Mufti’s Arabic language radio broadcasts, his recruitment of the Islamic SS unit, and his active involvement in SS round ups of Jews in Yugosolvia.
And there is no doubt that Mufti was aware of the Final Solution, fully supported it, and sought to extend it to the Arab world
The affidavit of one of Eichmann’s subordinates, SS Hampsturmfuerer Dieter Wisliceny, who appeared as a witness for the Nuremberg prosecution, speaks for itself:
“The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry for the Germans and had been the permanent collaborator and advisor of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of the plan…According to my opinion, the Grand Mufti, who had been in Berlin since 1941, played a role in the decision of the German government to exterminate the European Jews, the importance of which must not be disregarded, He had repeatedly suggested to the various authorities with who had been in contact, above all before Hitler, Ribbentrop and Himmler, the extermination of European Jewry. He considered this as a comfortable solution of the Palestinian problem. In his messages broadcast from Berlin, he surpassed us in anti-Jewish attacks. He was one of Eichmann’s best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures…”
In 1961, when Eichmann was brought to justice in Jerusalem, Israel’s then foreign minister,, Golda Meir, called for the Mossad to apprehend the Mufti and to sit him alongside Eichmann on trial in Jerusalem
Maurice Pearlman traces the Mufti’s escape to Cairo, where Pearlman reported how the Mufti influenced the newly formed Arab League to spawn the charter of the Arab League, with an explicit statement that its purpose was to wipe out any Zionist entity that would soon come about.
Indeed, the Mufti inspired charter of the Arab League would soon form the basis of the Arab league declaration of war to destroy the nascent state of Israel in 1948.
The refusal of the UK to arrest the Mufti in Cairo, described by Pearlman, caused the head of the Zionist revisionists in the United States at the time, Ben Zion Netanyahu, father of Israel’s current Prime Minister, to launch an unsuccessful campaign to push the US to demand the arrest of the Mufti in Cairo.
A little known fact concerns the Mufti’s special relationship with a young relative in Cairo, who to the Mufti would affectionately give the name “Yassir Arafat”. In December 1996, Haaretz interviewed Yassir Arafat’s younger brother and sister, who said that the Mufti performed the role of a surrogate father figure and mentor to the young Arafat.
The failure of the Arab League, in 1948, to mobilize the Arabs of Palestine into an active war against the newly formed Jewish state led the Mufti to urge the Arab League, in 1964, to launch the PLO, the Palestine Liberation Organization, whose stated covenant of purpose was almost identical in language to the charter of the Arab League: to exterminate new state of Israel. Yet the focus of the PLO was to organize Arabs who remained in Israel along with the Arab refugees who languished in UNRWA refugee camps to organize an effective grass roots effort to liberate Palestine, all of Palestine, from Jewish rule.
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/legacy-of-the-mufti-and-hitler-the-facts-that-are-known/
Book of Jeremiah
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Absolutely it is not a simple conflict because behind all of this there is the history of the Vatican and their Jesuits that have been manipulating the Arabs, even started the trouble of distrust between Arab and Jew back in the time of Augustine(before the occultist / Catholic Ignatius Loyola founded the Jesuits and the Illuminati)! The Vatican has used the Muslims for many centuries to fight their wars against the Jews and Protestants because the reality is they want Jerusalem for themselves. Not for the Muslims. For their own religion of Catholicism and to move their headquarters (Vatican) to Jerusalem. That has been the plan all along, Coyote. It is a sad fact that most Muslims do not realize what has been going on. One day we will learn the truth of just how great the deception was against the Arabs and how diabolical. Truly what has happened is despicable and tragic. The Arabs have been used as political pawns.
Book of Jeremiah
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While this is all true, Mike, keep in mind that Hitler was a faithful Roman Catholic doing the bidding of the Vatican and the Pope and this is not the first time the Vatican has used the Muslims in this way - even rewarding them - secretly meeting with them and indoctrinating them with every kind of deception and scheme in order to keep those flames of hatred going! What the Grand Mufti had in mind was carefully crafted behind the scenes all along by the Roman Catholic Empire.
- Thread starter
- #450
Multiple groups - if they are done well, they provide a more accurate look at public opinion amongst Palestinians or any other group of people.
Historical data doesn't "go out of fashion" - if there is evidence supporting it, it would be out there. Surely you can find it.
I doubt Israel will vacate the West Bank. Israel's actions have not been helpful in any of this and frankly it's not up to Israel to determine whether or not they should have the state. After all, the UN gave it to Israel. They should set down representatives from both sides, tell them no more diddlying around - settle it. Set 1967 "borders" for a starting point, negotiate landswaps. Palestinians will have to forget about "right of return" and Israeli's will have to forget about settlements other than what they negotiate in swaps. Until then there won't be peace because neither side is willing to give up enough to want it enough.
And neither will the Israeli's.
- Thread starter
- #451
Netanyahu's claim was that the Mufti gave Hitler the idea for the Final Solution, using a quote that can not be verified. Netanyahu minimized Hitlers culpability in order to demonize the Palestinians by saying Hitler only sought to expel the Jews when he met the Mufti. He was already exterminating Jews. This attempt to reorganize history is little different from that of Holocaust Deniers, with a different but equally sinister motive.
Did Zionism Cause the Holocaust? A New Biography Says Yes.:
Where Rubin and Schwanitz depart from the known historical record is in their dubious causal assertion that Hitler’s commitment to al-Husaini to keep Jews out of Palestine was in turn a major motivation for the fuehrer’s decision, sometime in 1941, to exterminate European Jewry. It’s true, as Rubin and Schwanitz make clear, that the mufti advocated genocide against the Jews even before Hitler did. Like Hitler, he thought of Jews as subhuman and evil parasites. But the notion that al-Husaini played a key role in Hitler’s settling on the Final Solution is based on one piece of thin hearsay evidence: comments that the controversial Hungarian Jewish leader Rudolf Kastner attributed to Eichmann’s subordinate Dieter Wisliceny. (Rubin and Schwanitz oddly credit the comments to Eichmann himself.)
The argument is not whether or not the Mufti was a Nazi, and sought to exterminate Jews in Palestine, that's well supported - the argument is the false attribution of his role in Hitler's plans and WHY did Netanyahu make such inflammatory and divisive statements at this time when things are very tense?
http://theconversation.com/netanyah...rtant-to-get-the-historical-facts-right-49617
Why has Netanyahu arrived at this interpretation?
It is not the first time Netanyahu tried to suggest that the Arab leader was somehow behind the idea of the physical extermination of the European Jews. He did so before, in 2012. There have been some scholarly attempts exploring the role of al-Husseiny that Netanyahu might feel support his claim, among them most recently by Middle East scholars Barry Rubin and Wolfgang G. Schwanitz in their book Nazis, Islamists, and the Making of the Modern Middle East.
Netanyahu’s comments are not so much a trivialisation of the Holocaust or even a denial, but a deliberate and dangerous distortion of historical facts. Netanyahu no doubt feels that by accusing a prominent Palestinian leader during the Nazi period of being somehow behind the Holocaust, perhaps even being the inspiration for it, he can successfully discredit today’s Palestinian leadership and their concerns and worries.
By claiming that there exists a century-old tradition of anti-semitism among Palestinians culminating in active participation in the annihilation of the Jewish people, Netanyahu wants to establish a line of direct and straight-forward historical continuity from the Holocaust to today’s ongoing tensions. He implies that today’s Intifada has nothing to do with Israel’s occupation of the West Bank, the separation barrier, the question of Jewish settlements on Palestinian lands or the general socio-economic situation of the Palestinians, but that at its core is simply ingrained anti-semitism.
There’s no doubt: Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini was anti-semitic and anti-Israel. He collaborated with Nazi Germany as a broadcaster and propagandist, and he helped recruit Balkan Muslims to fight for the Nazis. There is little doubt that he knew about the Holocaust and did not object when he learned about it (probably following a meeting with Himmler in 1943): however, he was not the inspiration behind the Holocaust. This must never be confused.
As the German chancellor Angela Merkel emphasised again after Netanyahu’s comments: the Holocaust is and remains the sole responsibility of the Germans.
The history of the Holocaust is too sensitive a topic to be allowed to be exploited and abused in inflammatory speeches. Netanyahu’s comments are not supported by scholarly evidence. But now that the genie is out of the bottle, academics will find it much more difficult to get through with their evidenced arguments. Holocaust deniers and right-wing extremists could well hijack Netanyahu’s comments for their agenda as proof that they were right: the Holocaust was not Germany’s original doing, and they can now cite an Israeli prime minister as suggesting exactly that.
The damage that this poses to an evidence-based discussion of the Holocaust is as yet immeasurable – but it could well be a very high price to pay for what Netanyahu probably hoped would give him a short-term political advantage in the upcoming negotiations.
It is not the first time Netanyahu tried to suggest that the Arab leader was somehow behind the idea of the physical extermination of the European Jews. He did so before, in 2012. There have been some scholarly attempts exploring the role of al-Husseiny that Netanyahu might feel support his claim, among them most recently by Middle East scholars Barry Rubin and Wolfgang G. Schwanitz in their book Nazis, Islamists, and the Making of the Modern Middle East.
Netanyahu’s comments are not so much a trivialisation of the Holocaust or even a denial, but a deliberate and dangerous distortion of historical facts. Netanyahu no doubt feels that by accusing a prominent Palestinian leader during the Nazi period of being somehow behind the Holocaust, perhaps even being the inspiration for it, he can successfully discredit today’s Palestinian leadership and their concerns and worries.
By claiming that there exists a century-old tradition of anti-semitism among Palestinians culminating in active participation in the annihilation of the Jewish people, Netanyahu wants to establish a line of direct and straight-forward historical continuity from the Holocaust to today’s ongoing tensions. He implies that today’s Intifada has nothing to do with Israel’s occupation of the West Bank, the separation barrier, the question of Jewish settlements on Palestinian lands or the general socio-economic situation of the Palestinians, but that at its core is simply ingrained anti-semitism.
There’s no doubt: Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini was anti-semitic and anti-Israel. He collaborated with Nazi Germany as a broadcaster and propagandist, and he helped recruit Balkan Muslims to fight for the Nazis. There is little doubt that he knew about the Holocaust and did not object when he learned about it (probably following a meeting with Himmler in 1943): however, he was not the inspiration behind the Holocaust. This must never be confused.
As the German chancellor Angela Merkel emphasised again after Netanyahu’s comments: the Holocaust is and remains the sole responsibility of the Germans.
The history of the Holocaust is too sensitive a topic to be allowed to be exploited and abused in inflammatory speeches. Netanyahu’s comments are not supported by scholarly evidence. But now that the genie is out of the bottle, academics will find it much more difficult to get through with their evidenced arguments. Holocaust deniers and right-wing extremists could well hijack Netanyahu’s comments for their agenda as proof that they were right: the Holocaust was not Germany’s original doing, and they can now cite an Israeli prime minister as suggesting exactly that.
The damage that this poses to an evidence-based discussion of the Holocaust is as yet immeasurable – but it could well be a very high price to pay for what Netanyahu probably hoped would give him a short-term political advantage in the upcoming negotiations.
- Thread starter
- #452
You didn't really read it did you? You just picked out what you wanted? Historical context was brought up, you can't compare what happened then to the world of today - freedom, like exists now - did not exist in the ancient world. Jews, in many parts of the world were non-citizens. In the context of that - being second class citizens was better than being non-citizens with greater rights and protections, even though it wasn't equality.
CMike
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That is inaccurate.
Netanyahu said that at the time Hitler met the Mufti, Hitler was working on expelling the Jews not murdering them.
The Mufti, said that if you expel them they will come here, and that Hitler should burn them.
Obviously, Hitler is responsible for attempting and coming close to exterminate all Jews, however, the mufti was complicit.
The point that I understood from Netanyahu's speech is that this isn't about the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem.
The arabs were trying to kill all the Jews in Israel before those areas were even captured.
The arabs were trying to kill the Jews before the Jews even formed the state.
The Mufti's collaboration with Hitler is proof of this. The Mufti was part of the Nuremberg trials. He also used the same arguement that the Jews are trying to destroy the mosque on the Temple Mount that the arabs are spewing today.
That was Netanyahu's point, and his point was a good one. It was also the truth
aris2chat
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You take someone's books and history and then can them heretics. It is not just some ideas borrowed. Calling jews early fathers or on the right track but not complete might in Christian and Islamic terms be more accurate, but to call them devils, spawns of satan, occult blood drinkers and ritual murders, evil and blame them for every natural and unnatural act through history how they viewed jews for far too long. Christians are the one that drink the blood and eat the flesh of their god, symbolically, not the jews. Christians idolize the suffering man on the cross so they can have a spiritual rebirth after death. These are pagan concepts not jewish, but they use the jewish text as their own. How are jews heretics if they follow the fist half of the bible? Are children heretics till they pass advanced calculous in school? In jewish terms Jetsus would not have used blood and flesh imagery but might have used other terms for life or energy for the apostles to carry on the teachings. Blood and flesh would be pagan terms in worship and practice. The idea of human sacrifice to god I also against jewish beliefs. The sacrifice of Jesus in those terms is not jewish but pagan. But jews are the ones seen as heretics and evil? Why take the OT as part of the bible at all if jews were heretics? Yet Judaism is the foundation of both Christianity and Islam. In the grand scheme of things, the jews were just a small cult. Jesus is accepted but not the religion he was born into and taught?
Romans borrowed the greek and Egyptian god but they did not use their text and rituals or the names of their gods the way the jewish faith was stolen. Rome did not try to wipe out the Egyptian and greek faiths but let them die out. Romans tried to execute masses of jews and scatted or enslaved much of the rest. Other people were allowed to keep their faiths, but the jews had to do so in secret, their temple destroyed and items stolen? But Christians worship a jewish man as god while killing jews.
- Thread starter
- #455
Netanyahu said this (from the OP):
"Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews," Netanyahu told the group. "And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, 'If you expel them, they'll all come here.' 'So what should I do with them?' he asked. He said, 'Burn them.'"
Historians quickly noted that the Nazi Final Solution was already well underway at this point, with several concentration camps up and running. Hitler had previously repeatedly declared his lethal intentions for the Jews.
The problem is - there is no historical evidence or record for that conversation.Historians quickly noted that the Nazi Final Solution was already well underway at this point, with several concentration camps up and running. Hitler had previously repeatedly declared his lethal intentions for the Jews.
Netanyahu's speech is very much about the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jeruselum. By putting modern day Arabs and Palestinians in the same league as Hitler is defining them the same way as the Nazi's - a scrouge that can only be fought, killed, eradicated - never negotiated with.
- Thread starter
- #456
I'm not sure what you mean Aris - all religions borrow from what proceeds them - particularly if the one who started the new religion, was of the old. It's not stealing - it's incorporating parts of the old into the new. I don't understand why it is an issue. Even Judaism was built from earlier religions.
aris2chat
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"The history of the Holocaust " was the story of the jews in Europe. It is a large part of the jewish need for security today. That history is still being advocated by Iran and others on every media form around the world. The diaspora was history, the holocaust was yesterday. People from those camps are still alive to remember the horrors, to remember the numbers of the dead jews and how close the jews came to being exterminated from the earth. They remember just how close hitler and the mufti came to their final solution. That extermination is still a real threat today.
- Thread starter
- #458
By the way, even Judiasm "stole" from earlier religions. Where do you think many of their "demons" came from? They were from older, polytheistic deities transformed into the Jewish pantheon of demons.
- Thread starter
- #459
And that is why it shouldn't be used lightly, for political purposes or to demonize, and that is especially why the events shouldn't be distorted in the same manner that Holocaust Deniers do. If politicians start doing that over and over it in this manner, becomes like the boy who cried wolf.
aris2chat
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- Feb 17, 2012
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Jews did not try to wipe them out.
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