Myths and facts about Jerusalem and Temple Mount

[Roudy]

Roudy -

I would think there is very, very little chance that you would be able to understand this anyway, as to do so requires a reasonable understanding of the events taking place in the Arab World in the 1960's. Issues to do with Nasserism, the Ba'ath Party and the aborted Syrian-Egyptian union are all key here, for instance.

I'm happy to explain it to you, but I assume you'd rather not know the details.

I understand it very clearly. You are a liar. Arabs attacked Israel to destroy it, not to create a Palestinian state (by your own admission, even), because they thought the term Palestinian was a Zionist invention, and thought it was a myth. The Arabs who today call themselves Palestinian considered themselves Egyptian Arabs, or Syrian Arabs, or just Arabs, BUT NEVER "PALESTINIAN", to call an Arab by that name would be considered an insult because it meant JEW.

But if you want to keep spouting your lies and BS go ahead, they provide good entertainment.

 

[Saigon]

Roudy -

You understand nothing, as I imagine you probably realise yourself - which is why you so often descend into foul-mouthed ranting and so rarely post anything on-topic.

I am always happy to explain details as best I can (I did study this subject in Israel, after all), and to refer you to books that would allow you to find correct information.

For instance, on the topic of the modern usage of the term 'Palestine', I would suggest reading David Fromkinn's sublime 'Peace To End All Peace' which explains the details better than I can.


btw. Please try and avoid plagiarism. When posting text you didn't write - include the source and link.

 

[Saigon]

Hey Saigon. It is a very interesting read. But, common, really ?!? I think you need to start off from the origin of the name 'Palestinian' , then maybe you will find your answer.

We certainly know how old the term 'Palestinian' is, even if it only really came to be used in its current meaning around 1920.

But when we consider that the words 'Italy' and 'Germany' only date from 1850, there has to be more to history than the name.

Is anyone going to claim there were no Italians in 1840?

Well, there was no Italy in 1840, and there never had been.

But obviously the people of Italy an trace their origins in towns like Roma back 3,000 years - just as Palestinians can to towns like Ashdod, Akko and Nablus.

Jews can also trace their genetic history back 3,000 years - so this isn't bad news for Jews or for Israel.

Wow, what a load of hogwash. So many errors, mistakes, and lies one doesn't even know where to begin with this dipshit.

I'm still waiting to see these "errors, mistakes and lies".

 

[Roudy]

Roudy -

You understand nothing, as I imagine you probably realise yourself - which is why you so often descend into foul-mouthed ranting and so rarely post anything on-topic.

I am always happy to explain details as best I can (I did study this subject in Israel, after all), and to refer you to books that would allow you to find correct information.

For instance, on the topic of the modern usage of the term 'Palestine', I would suggest reading David Fromkinn's sublime 'Peace To End All Peace' which explains the details better than I can.


btw. Please try and avoid plagiarism. When posting text you didn't write - include the source and link.

You don't explain, you further lie. Any educated person would know that the name Palestine was given to Israel by the invading Romans. That means the name Palestine did not exist prior to that era. Yet you keep repeating this garbage about ancient Palestinians as if it existed or had anything whatsoever to do with Arabs who invaded the land later on.

 

[Saigon]

Roudy

Any educated person would know that the name Palestine was given to Israel by the invading Romans. That means the name Palestine did not exist prior to that era.

"The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece."

Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Source: Jacobson, David M. (February 1999). Weinstein, James M.. ed. "Palestine and Israel". Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research (The American Schools of Oriental Research)

 

[irosie91]

Fromkin is yet another prostituted word-monger who misses
the real issue of "PEACE TO END ALL PEACE"----which has its
roots way back to the greeks who invented a mild form of
fascism----(consider the imperialist ambition of alexander---which
he learned from aristotle) The romans ---as ever ---pillaged
the greek genius and invented the monster which became the
HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE-------with both europe and "the islamic
world" its heirs (think Reichs and Caliphates)

thue the END OF ALL PEACE ---the reichs and the caliphates

 

[Saigon]

Fromkin is yet another prostituted word-monger who misses
the real issue...

Thr book has nothing to do with the Greeks, Romans or Alexander - it focuses on the crucial era of 1918 - 1930 and looks at how Palestinian nationalism developed, and why.

The book was a finalist for both the National Book Critics Circle Award and the Pulitzer Prize. Fromkin has written seven books in total, with his most recent in 2007, The King and the Cowboy: Theodore Roosevelt and Edward the Seventh, Secret Partners.

A graduate of the University of Chicago and the University of Chicago Law School, he is University Professor, Professor of History, International Relations, and Law at Boston University, where he was also the Director of The Frederick S. Pardee Center for the Study of the Long-Range Future. He is also a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.

David Fromkin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's also required reading in most Israeli university history courses.

 

[irosie91]

Any educated person would know that the name Palestine was given to Israel by the invading Romans. That means the name Palestine did not exist prior to that era.

"The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece."

Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Source: Jacobson, David M. (February 1999). Weinstein, James M.. ed. "Palestine and Israel". Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research (The American Schools of Oriental Research)

correct saigon---the INTENSELY ethnocentric greeks termed the entire
land mass between phoenicia (one of their ports of trade) to the northern
part of the land just west of CANAAN ----(kinda like ashdot) another
of their ports of trade according to the AEGEAN PEOPLE who colonized
the ASHDOT-------to wit THE PHILISTINES What else is new?
Plato referred to all NON GREEK SPEAKING PEOPLE AS
BARBARIANS generally useful as slaves----or "LIVING TOOLS"

ie---the term Palestinians as applied to the mixed mess of migrants
from all over the middle east from arabia to egypt and all over the
mediterrnean area from greece to turkey in the past 2000 years as
PALESTINIANS and THEREFORE OWNERS OF JUDEA/ISRAEL is----
to say the least-- a bit silly. In fact what should be called
palestine in honor of HERODOTUS today is SYRIA ----syria has the
most greek DNA today The PHILISTINES for whom the greeks
named the ENTIRE AREA-----left Ashdot-----but the greek derived
people actually stuck around in Syria and became christians.
SAD for them-----arabs invaded in the seventh century CE. Well---
actually ----Lots of the people who today call themselves
Palestinians-----were-----in recent history SYRIANS ----so the
real answer to the problem is RETURN THE REAL "palestina"
to them----to wit SYRIA

 

[Hossfly]

Fact or myth?

Palestinians warn Obama over Temple Mount visit - Israel Today | Israel News

 

[Saigon]

Rosie -

what should be called
palestine in honor of HERODOTUS today is SYRIA

Palestine is not Syria - Herotodus refers to Palestine as a district of (Southern) Syria in the 5th century BCE, which makes sense. What we know of as Syria today has always been north and east of Mt Hermon - not south or west of it.

The facts are fairly clear - an area known as Palestine existed as far back as the 5th century BCE. It is aguably more clearly defined in ancient history than Lebanon, a country whose existance few here seem to question.

We also know that Palestinians are genetically distinct from Syrians and Egyptians, and spoke of themselves as a distinct people from at least as far back as 1920 (and arguably from 1843). Again, this distinction is arguably more defined than that of the Lebanese.

 

[irosie91]

Rosie -

what should be called
palestine in honor of HERODOTUS today is SYRIA

Palestine is not Syria - Herotodus refers to Palestine as a district of (Southern) Syria in the 5th century BCE, which makes sense. What we know of as Syria today has always been north and east of Mt Hermon - not south or west of it.

The facts are fairly clear - an area known as Palestine existed as far back as the 5th century BCE. It is aguably more clearly defined in ancient history than Lebanon, a country whose existance few here seem to question.

We also know that Palestinians are genetically distinct from Syrians and Egyptians, and spoke of themselves as a distinct people from at least as far back as 1920 (and arguably from 1843). Again, this distinction is arguably more defined than that of the Lebanese.

Your point? there is no question Herodotus would make reference to parts of
SYRIA and a bit to ASHDOT----since that is where the GREEKS/AEGEANS LIVED
The fact is that both the PHONECIAN greek/aegean and the ASHDOD greek/
aegean COMMUNITIES OF PEOPLE are no longer extant as distinct
communities of people------they were entirely assimilated into other "nations"
---although it is likely some passed thru or even resided
the as aliens in Judea and Israel ----back then. Now they
are no longer extant in the same way that the Trojans are no longer
extant (which does not suggest that some trojan DNA did not get
passed into the gene pool of mankind) By 500 BC ---when a greek
historian was talking about some fairly small colonies of aegean/greeks
in Northern africa------Israel/Judea was well established---being screwed
over by wars between the sorrounding super powers which included
syria -----incessantly. (the holiday CHANNUKAH recalls the SYRIAN/
GREEK attacks----it was well established before "JESUS" was born )

Israel/Judea was savaged by ROMANS---christianized by force---
in the seventh century --savaged by ARABS islamized by force
and the people of the nation Israel/Judea maintained language,
religion and customs in "exile" for the 1700 years following
its defeat by the roman TITUS and his gross vandalism of national
landmarks and treasures MANY of its cities were RENAMED
by the roman vandals-----the nation became PALESTINA ---
Jerusalem became AEOLIA CAPITOLINA Shechem
became NEOPOLIS----etc etc -----no arabic yet spoken
in PALESTINA no arab community. in the area until ---
the seventh century AD

if you plant----CAPSAICIN in your garden---of various strains----
they cross pollinate ------your grasp of anthropology and
population genetics is -----as good as that of a green bell
pepper

 

[Saigon]

Your point?

The facts are fairly clear - an area known as Palestine existed as far back as the 5th century BCE. It is aguably more clearly defined in ancient history than Lebanon, a country whose existance few here seem to question.

We also know that Palestinians are genetically distinct from Syrians and Egyptians, and spoke of themselves as a distinct people from at least as far back as 1920 (and arguably from 1843). Again, this distinction is arguably more defined than that of the Lebanese.

In other words - accept that the Palestinian people exist, accept that a place called Palestine has existed since antiquity, and accept that they have a fair and valid historical claim to at least some of the land in the Levant.

 

[irosie91]

Rosie -

what should be called
palestine in honor of HERODOTUS today is SYRIA

Palestine is not Syria - Herotodus refers to Palestine as a district of (Southern) Syria in the 5th century BCE, which makes sense. What we know of as Syria today has always been north and east of Mt Hermon - not south or west of it.

The facts are fairly clear - an area known as Palestine existed as far back as the 5th century BCE. It is aguably more clearly defined in ancient history than Lebanon, a country whose existance few here seem to question.

We also know that Palestinians are genetically distinct from Syrians and Egyptians, and spoke of themselves as a distinct people from at least as far back as 1920 (and arguably from 1843). Again, this distinction is arguably more defined than that of the Lebanese.

'


TODAY the people called "PALESTINIANS" are a different people from
the people called "SYRIANS" today sufficient to explain
the minor genetic differences between them Long after
Herodotus credited the lands of syria and the land west of Israel for
their Aegean/greek populations----there were FURTHER POPULATION

shifts in both syria and ----north Gaza and Palestina.
your comment indicates an even more
hopeless situation in your potential for an understanding of
population genetics -----learn this phrase
"GENETIC ISOLATION"

learn this important historic innovation----
the GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST


got that? -----ok ANY POPULATION that does not screw
each others members----eventually developes
a gene pool that varies from the population it does
not screw Syrians and Greeks SCREWED LOTS
over the past 2500 years. Syrians are FULL OF GREEK
DNA -----the arabs of PALESTINA ---especially the BEDOUINS
are far far far less GREEK What the arabs of palestina
are----with reference to GENE POOL----is generally bedouin

 

[irosie91]

PS I should add----that various PARTS of the arab population of
"palestina" vary in their gene pool thing depending in what part
of palestina they lived----or where their grandparents lived 50 years
before. Why do you bring up dates less than 100 years ago----
the assertions of the historic revisionists are 5000 year old things
----you biggest fan-----sherri ------insisted that "PALESTINE" as a nation of
people which is the SAME as the current nation of people called
PALESTINE----- far precedes even the WORD "ISRAEL"

 

[Roudy]

Your point?

The facts are fairly clear - an area known as Palestine existed as far back as the 5th century BCE. It is aguably more clearly defined in ancient history than Lebanon, a country whose existance few here seem to question.

We also know that Palestinians are genetically distinct from Syrians and Egyptians, and spoke of themselves as a distinct people from at least as far back as 1920 (and arguably from 1843). Again, this distinction is arguably more defined than that of the Lebanese.

In other words - accept that the Palestinian people exist, accept that a place called Palestine has existed since antiquity, and accept that they have a fair and valid historical claim to at least some of the land in the Levant.

Ha ha ha! We don't need to accept your BS, but if you wish to find those who might be warmer to your claims, may I suggest the closest mosque or neo Nazi gathering in proximity to your location.

The fact that the Romans invaded Israel and changed its name to Paletine is undisputed history. And it's occupants both before and after the invasion had absolutely nothing to do with today's Arabs who call themselves Palestinians. By their own admission, they have latched on and stolen an identity to defeat the Jews. Had there not been an Israel and the land divided among Jordan, Syria, and Egypt, there would never have been a Palestinian movement nor woud there be this mythical bullshit about an "ancient Palestinian people".

 

[Saigon]

Roudy -

Try and post with a little dignity.

Go back and acknowledge a couple of the errors of yours that I corrected - and ideally learn from the experience. Post #385.

Everything we've discussed recently has been sourced, linked and can be confirmed from a dozen sources. Continually repeating the myths that have just been completely disproven does not build a case.

 

[irosie91]

wrong again saigon---none of your links provided evidence 'for your silly assertions or those of your yes-slut --
sherri You make a huge issue of the fact that a GREEK
(known to be so ethnocentric that they considered any human who did not speak greek---to be--less than human)
preferred to consider only the places in the middle east USED
and colonized by greeks as "places" ---in fact an historian who lived at the same time the greeks of SYRIA were actively
in the process of trying to genocide Israel out of existence ---
>>>>>then came who <trumpet flourish.....ta ta ta>
JUDAH MACCABBEEEEE yaaaayyyyaaaaa
<taunting> wicked wicked wicked antiochus ----booo booo

historical note----the armies of antiochus used ELEPHANTS
as tanks ----against the <yaaaayyyy>>>> ARMIES OF THE
MACCABBEESSSS <yAAAAAYYYYA> boo..sherri

gee you are dim SAIGON

 

[Hossfly]

Fact or myth?

Palestinians warn Obama over Temple Mount visit - Israel Today | Israel News

Imagine if Muslims were told that in America they couldn't throw their prayer rugs down on the streets and pray like many actually do here, but would have to go inside a building. They would probably start rioting. Moishe Dayan certainly made a big mistake handing over the Temple Mount to the Muslims.

 

[Roudy]

Roudy -

Try and post with a little dignity.

Go back and acknowledge a couple of the errors of yours that I corrected - and ideally learn from the experience. Post #385.

Everything we've discussed recently has been sourced, linked and can be confirmed from a dozen sources. Continually repeating the myths that have just been completely disproven does not build a case.

 

[irosie91]

Your point?

The facts are fairly clear - an area known as Palestine existed as far back as the 5th century BCE. It is aguably more clearly defined in ancient history than Lebanon, a country whose existance few here seem to question.

We also know that Palestinians are genetically distinct from Syrians and Egyptians, and spoke of themselves as a distinct people from at least as far back as 1920 (and arguably from 1843). Again, this distinction is arguably more defined than that of the Lebanese.

In other words - accept that the Palestinian people exist, accept that a place called Palestine has existed since antiquity, and accept that they have a fair and valid historical claim to at least some of the land in the Levant.

Did anyone deny them a bit of land IN THE LEVANT??? I have VERY FREQUENTLY
INSISTED that a nice little countries can easily be carved out of a bit of the southern
part of Lebanon, syria and ---parts of transjordan that should make them
VERY HAPPY----if they need more there is no reason why they cannot have
Gaza and Sharm el Shaykh----no one is really using the places I mentioned
for much of anything----and -----getting the syrians out of the golan where
they so enjoyed tossing bombs on Israeli villages below is also a good
idea All people from the Levant---deserve a bit of the Levant.
It is true that ---the place was overrun by arabs in the
seventh century CE-----but they MARRIED IN---and they
really cannot be asked to GO BACK