Myth #1..... Israel is "Stolen Land"

[Seren]

Occupied territory ....from who Egypt, Jordan? Occupied territories...no. Disputed territories...look it up!

 

[dilloduck]

Yes. Israel has made a lot of mistakes. If they would own up to them and rectify them it might make things a lot easier. Instead they choose to demonize Arabs just as Arabs demonize them. All participants in the ethinc and religious squabble deserve what they get and America needs to quit wasting money on it. We're broke and our own people are suffering.

How do you suggest Israel rectify their mistakes?

As for our support, agreed our people are suffering and I support reducing foreign aid to many countries, but we need to do it smartly. Letting Israel stand alone while others, fueled with petro-dollars, seek to destroy it will eventually result in a major conflict and possibly the use of nuclear weapons as a last resort. This would not only be devastating to the region but probably create a major disruption of oil supplies around the world. The shock waves of such an event would be much larger than simply driving up the price of driving to the movies. it would drive up the price of food to the point of creating famine in parts of the world where food costs are a major portion of a family's budget.

Billions of American dollars and financial aid from other countries around the world has done nothing to settle the Arab/Israeli dispute. Nothing. We are held hostage by Israels determination to use nukes as a last resort and soon Iran will be doing the same.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Occupied territory ....from who Egypt, Jordan? Occupied territories...no. Disputed territories...look it up!

The 1949 armistice agreements divided Palestine into three occupations without changing Palestine's international borders. All three occupations are still Palestinian land. That Palestinian land was not Egypt's or Jordan's to lose.

 

[Divine Wind]

Billions of American dollars and financial aid from other countries around the world has done nothing to settle the Arab/Israeli dispute. Nothing. We are held hostage by Israels determination to use nukes as a last resort and soon Iran will be doing the same.

Disagreed.

1) You were the one who mentioned foreign aid and how our own people are suffering. To now deny foreign aid having a role in the region is contrary to the facts. It goes to a balance of power. "Foreign aid" is flowing to the terrorists and anyone else who is willing to fight Israel. Supporting Israel with funds works to provide balance in the region as noted by the results. When was the last time there was a major Arab-Israeli war?

2) Not hostage, choice. We are free to leave Israel, the Middle East, Afghanistan, South Korea and every other area of the world just as Ron Paul and others desire. All we have to do is be willing to accept the consequences.

 

[Monnagonna]

Billions of American dollars and financial aid from other countries around the world has done nothing to settle the Arab/Israeli dispute. Nothing. We are held hostage by Israels determination to use nukes as a last resort and soon Iran will be doing the same.

Disagreed.

1) You were the one who mentioned foreign aid and how our own people are suffering. To now deny foreign aid having a role in the region is contrary to the facts. It goes to a balance of power. "Foreign aid" is flowing to the terrorists and anyone else who is willing to fight Israel. Supporting Israel with funds works to provide balance in the region as noted by the results. When was the last time there was a major Arab-Israeli war?

2) Not hostage, choice. We are free to leave Israel, the Middle East, Afghanistan, South Korea and every other area of the world just as Ron Paul and others desire. All we have to do is be willing to accept the consequences.

Which are? World peace?

 

[Divine Wind]

Not hostage, choice. We are free to leave Israel, the Middle East, Afghanistan, South Korea and every other area of the world just as Ron Paul and others desire. All we have to do is be willing to accept the consequences.

Which are? World peace?

War. Look at what happened in the Balkans as soon as the Soviets left. If we pulled out of the Middle East, do you think war would erupt within a year between the Arabs and the Israelis?

How about between North Korea and South Korea if everyone pulled out of the region?

The wars going on in Africa now, including the genocide in Rwanda in 1994, are due to the fact no one else wanted to become involved. The United States is only involved in foreign nations out of self-interest. Initially much of it was part of the containment strategy for communism, but has now grown to protection of trade routes and trading partners.

I think we should begin a coordinated withdrawal from all foreign countries, but it is important to not leave a power vacuum behind because the usual consequence is armed conflict.

 

[Seren]

P.F. Tinmore is some ways a member of a minority group. US polls show consistently that US citizens support Israel and are NOT anti-Semetic. But alas Mr. Tinmore with no more education, information, experience or legal expertise than he can readily google has a voiciferous and less than valid opinion about the Middle East.

As a former serving IDF offficer and teacher of Middle Eastern Military History it is both humourous and dispairing to see Mr. Tinmore"s revision of recorded military history. He reminds me of the "barracks room lawyer" looking for loopholes.

Recorded human history is clear. In 1948 the United Nations General Assembly voted for and approved the partition of the former British Mandate in Palestine. On the fifth day of Iyar 5701 61 years ago, David Ben Gurion proclaimed the democratic Eretz Israel and within minutes the five armies Arab League invaded the entire former British Mandate in Palestine. In fact almost the entire designated "Arab Homeland" was overrun before contact with Haganah initiated .

There has never been a "palestinian state" nor ethnicity. When the 1949 armistace was put into place it was the result of the Arab League's pursuiance of a armistice. The Arab league has suffered a Nakba or what we call a complete strategic and tactical failure.

Mr Tinmore's assertion that the borders or partition was never "implemented" would further validate the argument that Yesha is disputed territories and not occupied territories. But alas since "palestine" never existed as sovereign nation-state, who is Yesha taken from....the answer is Jordan and Egypt.

Egyptian units lost Gaza and surrounding territory, so how is Najb/Sedrot "palestinian"? Arab fedayeen fought or attacked Israel alongside Arab League units and lost 50 % of the designated "Arab homeland" to Haganah. Indeed they were well beaten. So the argument that "palestinians" were never beaten is specious.

UN res 181 was the original "two state siolution" and was rejected by the Arab inhabitants of the former Mandate, the Trans Arab Nation, the Arab league , et al.... and a military resolution was imposed... they were whupped. As they were in "67". No amount of Mr. Tinmore's spinning of history changes that. As they say "those are the facts Jack".

Yesha is disputed territory and hardly occupied or stolen territory like say Texas.

 

[Monnagonna]

Not hostage, choice. We are free to leave Israel, the Middle East, Afghanistan, South Korea and every other area of the world just as Ron Paul and others desire. All we have to do is be willing to accept the consequences.

Which are? World peace?

War. Look at what happened in the Balkans as soon as the Soviets left. If we pulled out of the Middle East, do you think war would erupt within a year between the Arabs and the Israelis?

How about between North Korea and South Korea if everyone pulled out of the region?

The wars going on in Africa now, including the genocide in Rwanda in 1994, are due to the fact no one else wanted to become involved. The United States is only involved in foreign nations out of self-interest. Initially much of it was part of the containment strategy for communism, but has now grown to protection of trade routes and trading partners.

I think we should begin a coordinated withdrawal from all foreign countries, but it is important to not leave a power vacuum behind because the usual consequence is armed conflict.

Like I should care if israelis and arabs attack each other? If arabs win, we'll buy their oil. If jews will we'll buy arab oil.

Korea, lol. If I could I'd push the nuke button myself.

 

[Seren]

Which are? World peace?

War. Look at what happened in the Balkans as soon as the Soviets left. If we pulled out of the Middle East, do you think war would erupt within a year between the Arabs and the Israelis?

How about between North Korea and South Korea if everyone pulled out of the region?

The wars going on in Africa now, including the genocide in Rwanda in 1994, are due to the fact no one else wanted to become involved. The United States is only involved in foreign nations out of self-interest. Initially much of it was part of the containment strategy for communism, but has now grown to protection of trade routes and trading partners.

I think we should begin a coordinated withdrawal from all foreign countries, but it is important to not leave a power vacuum behind because the usual consequence is armed conflict.

Like I should care if israelis and arabs attack each other? If arabs win, we'll buy their oil. If jews will we'll buy arab oil.

Korea, lol. If I could I'd push the nuke button myself.

Oh Dear ....it is pathetic to see how our "young amerkan friend" is so ignorant that she doesn't know that largest percentage of US imported crude comes from Canada,... You push your button dear!

 

[P F Tinmore]

P.F. Tinmore is some ways a member of a minority group. US polls show consistently that US citizens support Israel and are NOT anti-Semetic. But alas Mr. Tinmore with no more education, information, experience or legal expertise than he can readily google has a voiciferous and less than valid opinion about the Middle East.

As a former serving IDF offficer and teacher of Middle Eastern Military History it is both humourous and dispairing to see Mr. Tinmore"s revision of recorded military history. He reminds me of the "barracks room lawyer" looking for loopholes.

Recorded human history is clear. In 1948 the United Nations General Assembly voted for and approved the partition of the former British Mandate in Palestine. On the fifth day of Iyar 5701 61 years ago, David Ben Gurion proclaimed the democratic Eretz Israel and within minutes the five armies Arab League invaded the entire former British Mandate in Palestine. In fact almost the entire designated "Arab Homeland" was overrun before contact with Haganah initiated .

There has never been a "palestinian state" nor ethnicity. When the 1949 armistace was put into place it was the result of the Arab League's pursuiance of a armistice. The Arab league has suffered a Nakba or what we call a complete strategic and tactical failure.

Mr Tinmore's assertion that the borders or partition was never "implemented" would further validate the argument that Yesha is disputed territories and not occupied territories. But alas since "palestine" never existed as sovereign nation-state, who is Yesha taken from....the answer is Jordan and Egypt.

Egyptian units lost Gaza and surrounding territory, so how is Najb/Sedrot "palestinian"? Arab fedayeen fought or attacked Israel alongside Arab League units and lost 50 % of the designated "Arab homeland" to Haganah. Indeed they were well beaten. So the argument that "palestinians" were never beaten is specious.

UN res 181 was the original "two state siolution" and was rejected by the Arab inhabitants of the former Mandate, the Trans Arab Nation, the Arab league , et al.... and a military resolution was imposed... they were whupped. As they were in "67". No amount of Mr. Tinmore's spinning of history changes that. As they say "those are the facts Jack".

Yesha is disputed territory and hardly occupied or stolen territory like say Texas.

As a former serving IDF offficer and teacher of Middle Eastern Military History ...

Well, that would explain why you are so misinformed.

 

[Divine Wind]

Like I should care if israelis and arabs attack each other? If arabs win, we'll buy their oil. If jews will we'll buy arab oil.

Korea, lol. If I could I'd push the nuke button myself.

What oil? You mean the glowing radiotive shit that would be flowing into the Persian Gulf after a major regional war?

Besides killing 75 million men, women and children nuking both Koreas, South Korea contributes to a substantial part of both the global economy and our own economy. The loss in trade would have a severe impact on US jobs and our own economy.

Economy of South Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

South Korea has a market economy which ranks 15th in the world by nominal GDP and 12th by purchasing power parity (PPP), identifying it as one of the G-20 major economies. It is a high-income developed country, with an emerging economy

South Korea

Trade (2009): Exports--$363.5 billion: semiconductors, wireless telecommunications equipment, motor vehicles, computers, steel, ships, petrochemicals. Imports--$323.1 billion: crude oil, food, electronics and electronic equipment, machinery, transportation equipment, steel, organic chemicals, plastics, base metals and articles. Major export markets (2009)--China (23.2%), U.S. (10.1%), Japan (5.8%), Hong Kong (5.3%), Singapore (3.6%). Major importers to South Korea (2009)--China (16.8%), Japan (15.3%), U.S. (9.0%), Saudi Arabia (6.1%), Australia (4.6%).

 

[Seren]

Mr. Tinmore ...have you been to the Middle East? YOU know only what you can google. It is long way from your safe white bread amerkan existance to the Middle East. The truth is ....you haven't the faintest idea of what you are posting about.

Everyone has the right to an opinion ,,,but alas yours lacks facts, accurate information, an education or any kind of experience. Your "truth" or view is based on "You Tube"... What a pathetic joke!

 

[Monnagonna]

War. Look at what happened in the Balkans as soon as the Soviets left. If we pulled out of the Middle East, do you think war would erupt within a year between the Arabs and the Israelis?

How about between North Korea and South Korea if everyone pulled out of the region?

The wars going on in Africa now, including the genocide in Rwanda in 1994, are due to the fact no one else wanted to become involved. The United States is only involved in foreign nations out of self-interest. Initially much of it was part of the containment strategy for communism, but has now grown to protection of trade routes and trading partners.

I think we should begin a coordinated withdrawal from all foreign countries, but it is important to not leave a power vacuum behind because the usual consequence is armed conflict.

Like I should care if israelis and arabs attack each other? If arabs win, we'll buy their oil. If jews will we'll buy arab oil.

Korea, lol. If I could I'd push the nuke button myself.

Oh Dear ....it is pathetic to see how our "young amerkan friend" is so ignorant that she doesn't know that largest percentage of US imported crude comes from Canada,... You push your button dear!

That has nothing to do with what I said, which was that whatever happens, we'll still be buying arab oil. What does Canada and its oil have to do with arabs and israelis fighting? Btw, Canada is for weenies.

As for korea, we should have never been there in the first place, plus, I don't give a shit about korea and their purchasing power. They can gobble up all the rice in China for all I care.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Mr. Tinmore ...have you been to the Middle East? YOU know only what you can google. It is long way from your safe white bread amerkan existance to the Middle East. The truth is ....you haven't the faintest idea of what you are posting about.

Everyone has the right to an opinion ,,,but alas yours lacks facts, accurate information, an education or any kind of experience. Your "truth" or view is based on "You Tube"... What a pathetic joke!

Interesting. Where all have you been in the ME?

 

[Seren]

Monnagonna...are you blonde, your Ma and Pa, brother and Sister? Did they buy you shoes and let you go to real school? It would explain a lot! If you are the product of an "amerkan education".... your nation has NO future

 

[Monnagonna]

Monnagonna...are you blonde, your Ma and Pa, brother and Sister? Did they buy you shoes and let you go to real school? It would explain a lot! If you are the product of an "amerkan education".... your nation has NO future

I was educated in MONTREAL!!!! lol

And it's not amerkan, I'm a merrucan

 

[JStone]

Occupied territory ....from who Egypt, Jordan? Occupied territories...no. Disputed territories...look it up!

The 1949 armistice agreements divided Palestine into three occupations without changing Palestine's international borders. All three occupations are still Palestinian land. That Palestinian land was not Egypt's or Jordan's to lose.

Armistice agreements were non-binding. "Palestine" was called "Palestine" only recently, during the British Mandate until Israeli statehood in 1948. Not very ancient. The correct historical name of the land has been Israel dating back 3000 years.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Occupied territory ....from who Egypt, Jordan? Occupied territories...no. Disputed territories...look it up!

The 1949 armistice agreements divided Palestine into three occupations without changing Palestine's international borders. All three occupations are still Palestinian land. That Palestinian land was not Egypt's or Jordan's to lose.

Armistice agreements were non-binding. "Palestine" was called "Palestine" only recently, during the British Mandate until Israeli statehood in 1948. Not very ancient. The correct historical name of the land has been Israel dating back 3000 years.

Israel signed them. That would make them binding.

 

[JStone]

The 1949 armistice agreements divided Palestine into three occupations without changing Palestine's international borders. All three occupations are still Palestinian land. That Palestinian land was not Egypt's or Jordan's to lose.

Armistice agreements were non-binding. "Palestine" was called "Palestine" only recently, during the British Mandate until Israeli statehood in 1948. Not very ancient. The correct historical name of the land has been Israel dating back 3000 years.

Israel signed them. That would make them binding.

I signed a letter to my uncle. Doesn't make it binding.

 

[Monnagonna]

Armistice agreements were non-binding. "Palestine" was called "Palestine" only recently, during the British Mandate until Israeli statehood in 1948. Not very ancient. The correct historical name of the land has been Israel dating back 3000 years.

Israel signed them. That would make them binding.

I signed a letter to my uncle. Doesn't make it binding.

So you admit that israel's signed word is as useless as yours is?