My Two Cents Regarding People Who Think Islam Is Intolerant.

[dasolution]

I could reply with examples of Christian intolerance and brutality, but to what end? Do you seek to justify intolerance by more intolerance, hatred, by more hatred? I think we all know where this leads.

I can't wait to hear like stories of Christian brutality.

You won't hear it from me. My goal is not to start a religious war.

But you'll sure as hell will hear it from me.

The Spanish Inquisition
Nazi Germany
Killing Abortion Doctors in the name of God.

But Christianity is not alone in this. The so-called peaceful Buddhism done it as well
WWII Japan - Add Shintoism to this as well.
Sri Lanka Civil War

And add Hinduism as well
The Tamils of the Sri Lanka Civil War.

 

[dasolution]

You won't hear it from me. My goal is not to start a religious war.

We wont hear it from you because you are incapable of providing "like stories of Christian brutality". Your response was a complete and utter cop out, but you already knew that. Your debating skills are seriously lacking.

99.9% of the stories of Christian Brutality you find, will be well in the past. For example you will find no Countries on earth currently. That Proclaim to be Majority Christian, and KILL people who are not Christian as a practice. You will find No Christian Nation in the world today that KILLS homosexuals just for being so. You will find No Christian Nation that allows the stoning to death of A women On the word of her husband that she may have talked to another man.

You will find many Muslim Nations that do that. I suggest you look at How Sharia, Which Governs Almost all Majority Muslim Nations is applied in Actual Practice, and stop listening to One so called Moderate Muslim Imam who says he sees Sharia as something different than it is in Practice in every country it is practiced in. A system of Oppression of women and minority Religions.

Sharia is the real evil of Modern Islam. Radical Terrorist pale in comparison to it's capacity to Oppress and kill the innocent.

There were those who killed abortion doctors in the name of the Lord.

But really, both of you guys suck.

 

[dasolution]

Not all muslims agree with Suyuti.
Nor are they required to.

Yet you would have everyone believe that whatever opinion you present is representative of "true Islam". Never mind that you're a kafir outsider who lacks the intellectual capability and the knowledge of Islam to distinguish between what is true and what is not.

"5" a number you insisted was "0"

Your used to say that you could not understand how any true muslim could believe in the concept of internal abrogation.

Now you argue against that which you insisted was true.

More has happened to me over the past year than your deficient brain could ever hope to process. This discussion is not about me and your repeated attempts to make it so underscore your posts' utter lack of substance.


Sorry, kafir; reading internet articles and a few books in translation does not qualify you to speak with authority about Islam. Not a single Muslim has posted here whose knowledge of Islam doesn't exceed your shallow understanding by leaps and bounds.


In circles of educated Muslims, the amateurish scholarship of propaganda-spewing Saudi shills is subjected to a large amount of ridicule. Nonetheless, it seems to confirm some of your preconceptions and you act as if it has some sort of basis in fact in the vain hope that unthinking morons will give credence to your ridiculous, broad-brush portrayal of Islam. Nobody who can think independently is impressed.

More conformation 2:256 was abrogated at the time of Mohammads life
Something centuries of scholarship can do nothing about.

Produce a hadith that specifically confirms that this ayah is "abrogated."

Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.'

Unimpressive.

"It refers to fighting those who are waging war, whom Allah has permitted us to fight. It does not refer to those who have a covenant with us with whom Allah commands us to fulfill our covenant." - Ibn Taymiyyah, Majmu al-Fatawa 19/20​

Well you just prove to me something that I already know. The Koran is just like the Bible, it's full of contradictions and that Muslims are just as much idiotic as Christians and Jews.

 

[dasolution]

Just a last word before I unsubscribe this thread. Apparently, I hit real pay dirt with my comments or I wouldn't be reading such venomous posts. I leave you with this to rave and rant to your heart's content.

"You have two qualities which God, the Most Exalted, likes and loves. One is mildness and the other is toleration." Prophet Muhammad: Riyadh us-Saleheen Volume 1:632

Wouldn't it be something if muslims lived by that scripture.

It will be something that ANYBODY live by those useless words in Bible, Koran, Torah, whatever...

 

[Kalam]

Not all muslims agree with Suyuti.
Nor are they required to.

Yet you would have everyone believe that whatever opinion you present is representative of "true Islam". Never mind that you're a kafir outsider who lacks the intellectual capability and the knowledge of Islam to distinguish between what is true and what is not.


More has happened to me over the past year than your deficient brain could ever hope to process. This discussion is not about me and your repeated attempts to make it so underscore your posts' utter lack of substance.


Sorry, kafir; reading internet articles and a few books in translation does not qualify you to speak with authority about Islam. Not a single Muslim has posted here whose knowledge of Islam doesn't exceed your shallow understanding by leaps and bounds.


In circles of educated Muslims, the amateurish scholarship of propaganda-spewing Saudi shills is subjected to a large amount of ridicule. Nonetheless, it seems to confirm some of your preconceptions and you act as if it has some sort of basis in fact in the vain hope that unthinking morons will give credence to your ridiculous, broad-brush portrayal of Islam. Nobody who can think independently is impressed.


Produce a hadith that specifically confirms that this ayah is "abrogated."

Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.'

Unimpressive.

"It refers to fighting those who are waging war, whom Allah has permitted us to fight. It does not refer to those who have a covenant with us with whom Allah commands us to fulfill our covenant." - Ibn Taymiyyah, Majmu al-Fatawa 19/20​

Well you just prove to me something that I already know. The Koran is just like the Bible, it's full of contradictions and that Muslims are just as much idiotic as Christians and Jews.

We aren't only discussing the Qur'an. Thanks, though; you validated my perception that many nontheists are unthinking assholes who incorrectly assume that they're more intelligent than believers. Now go play in traffic.

 

[dasolution]

I could reply with examples of Christian intolerance and brutality, but to what end? Do you seek to justify intolerance by more intolerance, hatred, by more hatred? I think we all know where this leads.

Listen all! This is the truth of it. Fighting leads to killing, and killing gets to warring. And that was damn near the death of us all. Look at us now! Busted up, and everyone talking about hard rain! But we've learned, by the dust of them all... Bartertown learned. Now, when men get to fighting, it happens here! And it finishes here! Two men enter; one man leaves.

Or sometimes both die, like what happened in Gladiator.

That would be the ideal solution for both you Christians and Muslims.

 

[dasolution]

Crusades - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Cam needs to brush up on his history

Speaking of history, I love this part.

The specific crusades to restore Christian control of the Holy Land were fought over a period of nearly 200 years, between 1095 and 1291.

Can you explain to me why anyone felt it was necessary to restore anything if those Muslims were so peaceful that they never bothered to take it away in the first place?

What so holy about that land in the first place? And I'm asking this question to the Muslims and Jews as well. It's just a ******* piece of desert!

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Not all muslims agree with Suyuti.
Nor are they required to.

Yet you would have everyone believe that whatever opinion you present is representative of "true Islam". Never mind that you're a kafir outsider who lacks the intellectual capability and the knowledge of Islam to distinguish between what is true and what is not.

"5" a number you insisted was "0"

Your used to say that you could not understand how any true muslim could believe in the concept of internal abrogation.

Now you argue against that which you insisted was true.

More has happened to me over the past year than your deficient brain could ever hope to process. This discussion is not about me and your repeated attempts to make it so underscore your posts' utter lack of substance.


Sorry, kafir; reading internet articles and a few books in translation does not qualify you to speak with authority about Islam. Not a single Muslim has posted here whose knowledge of Islam doesn't exceed your shallow understanding by leaps and bounds.

Really ?
Can a non muslim possess greater knowledge than a muslim?
Please produce the unequivocal scripture .

 

[dasolution]

Yet you would have everyone believe that whatever opinion you present is representative of "true Islam". Never mind that you're a kafir outsider who lacks the intellectual capability and the knowledge of Islam to distinguish between what is true and what is not.


More has happened to me over the past year than your deficient brain could ever hope to process. This discussion is not about me and your repeated attempts to make it so underscore your posts' utter lack of substance.


Sorry, kafir; reading internet articles and a few books in translation does not qualify you to speak with authority about Islam. Not a single Muslim has posted here whose knowledge of Islam doesn't exceed your shallow understanding by leaps and bounds.


In circles of educated Muslims, the amateurish scholarship of propaganda-spewing Saudi shills is subjected to a large amount of ridicule. Nonetheless, it seems to confirm some of your preconceptions and you act as if it has some sort of basis in fact in the vain hope that unthinking morons will give credence to your ridiculous, broad-brush portrayal of Islam. Nobody who can think independently is impressed.


Produce a hadith that specifically confirms that this ayah is "abrogated."



Unimpressive.

"It refers to fighting those who are waging war, whom Allah has permitted us to fight. It does not refer to those who have a covenant with us with whom Allah commands us to fulfill our covenant." - Ibn Taymiyyah, Majmu al-Fatawa 19/20​

Well you just prove to me something that I already know. The Koran is just like the Bible, it's full of contradictions and that Muslims are just as much idiotic as Christians and Jews.

We aren't only discussing the Qur'an. Thanks, though; you validated my perception that many nontheists are unthinking assholes who incorrectly assume that they're more intelligent than believers. Now go play in traffic.

And go play with that bomb you were planning to use on innocent lives. Just make sure no one is around. Trust me, we won't miss you.

 

[Kalam]

Really ?
Can a non muslim possess greater knowledge than a muslim?

About Islam? Of course not.

Please produce the unequivocal scripture.

They seek to deceive Allah and those who believe, and they deceive only themselves and they perceive not. In their hearts is a disease, so Allah increased their disease, and for them is a painful chastisement because they lie. - 2:9-10

And the parable of those who disbelieve is as the parable of one who calls out to that which hears no more than a call and a cry. Deaf, dumb, blind, so they have no sense. - 2:171

And if We had pleased, We would have exalted him thereby; but he clings to the earth and follows his low desire. His parable is as the parable of the dog -- if thou drive him away, he lolls out his tongue, and if thou leave him alone, he lolls out his tongue. Such is the parable of the people who reject Our messages. So relate the narrative that they may reflect. - 7:176

Surely the vilest of beasts, in Allah’s sight, are the deaf, the dumb, who understand not. And if Allah had known any good in them, He would have made them hear. And if He makes them hear, they would turn away while they are averse. - 8:22-23

Or thinkest thou that most of them hear or understand? They are but as the cattle; nay, they are farther astray from the path. - 25:44

Nay, those who are unjust follow their low desires without any knowledge; so who can guide him whom Allah leaves in error? And they shall have no helpers. - 30:29

Those it is whom Allah has cursed, so He has made them deaf and blinded their eyes. Do they not reflect on the Qur’an? Or are there locks on their hearts? - 47:23-24​

Any questions?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Well ,its a good thing I quote muslims with unassailable opinions .

 

[Kalam]

No opinion is "unassailable." You'll simply be asked to produce some sort of conclusive scriptural evidence if you contend that something is right or wrong.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Yeah I do that , and over time, you change your opinion.
Its a miracle.

 

[Kalam]

Yeah I do that ,

You have failed to provide hadith-based evidence that the specific passages you consider mansukh were actually "abrogated." You rarely provide any evidence beyond vague or misquoted passages that you twist in such a manner that they appear to support your position.

and over time, you change your opinion.

Over the course of a year I embraced Sunnism. I'm in the midst of a comprehensive study of scripture and Islamic history and will not hesitate to rectify my beliefs if they're out of line with the clear teachings of Allah (SWT) and His Messenger (SAWS).

A person who refuses to change his beliefs when the evidence is overwhelmingly against him is a dishonest fool. You'd benefit from reflecting on those words.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Yeah I do that ,

You have failed to provide hadith-based evidence that the specific passages you consider mansukh were actually "abrogated." You rarely provide any evidence beyond vague or misquoted passages that you twist in such a manner that they appear to support your position.

and over time, you change your opinion.

Over the course of a year I embraced Sunnism. I'm in the midst of a comprehensive study of scripture and Islamic history and will not hesitate to rectify my beliefs if they're out of line with the clear teachings of Allah (SWT) and His Messenger (SAWS).

A person who refuses to change his beliefs when the evidence is overwhelmingly against him is a dishonest fool. You'd benefit from reflecting on those words.

I dont recall ever calling you a fool.
I presented ample evidence to show you where on the wrong path.
I just said, and have always just show the path.
You finally saw things my way .

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2698504-post83.html
You always return to my facts because as far as Islam goes.
I have the facts.
the same sentiment is reflected in the quran
8:39
\
and 2:193


You just go along and keep saying I misunderstand Islam Ok?
In time your opinion will change again ,
then you will be a believer

The kind of believer they talk about in the Quran.

 

[Kalam]

Yeah I do that ,

You have failed to provide hadith-based evidence that the specific passages you consider mansukh were actually "abrogated." You rarely provide any evidence beyond vague or misquoted passages that you twist in such a manner that they appear to support your position.

and over time, you change your opinion.

Over the course of a year I embraced Sunnism. I'm in the midst of a comprehensive study of scripture and Islamic history and will not hesitate to rectify my beliefs if they're out of line with the clear teachings of Allah (SWT) and His Messenger (SAWS).

A person who refuses to change his beliefs when the evidence is overwhelmingly against him is a dishonest fool. You'd benefit from reflecting on those words.

I dont recall ever calling you a fool.
I presented ample evidence to show you where on the wrong path.
I just said, and have always just show the path.
You finally saw things my way .

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2698504-post83.html
You always return to my facts because as far as Islam goes.
I have the facts.
the same sentiment is reflected in the quran
8:39
\
and 2:193


You just go along and keep saying I misunderstand Islam Ok?
In time your opinion will change again ,
then you will be a believer

The kind of believer they talk about in the Quran.

You're mistaken if you think that your barely-coherent ramblings had anything to do with any change in my beliefs. You are ignorant and arrogant beyond belief. You don't have the "facts", fool, and you've always been incorrect about abrogation. You don't understand it. You attempt to use it as to justify your choice to ignore certain teachings in the Qur'an.

 

[dasolution]

Really ?
Can a non muslim possess greater knowledge than a muslim?

About Islam? Of course not.

True, but an outsider will see things that someone on the inside will miss out. They will spot the contradictions and bullshits that the insider is so used to. This does not only apply to Islam, but to a lot of things as well.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

You're mistaken if you think that your barely-coherent ramblings had anything to do with any change in my beliefs. You are ignorant and arrogant beyond belief. You don't have the "facts", fool, and you've always been incorrect about abrogation. You don't understand it. You attempt to use it as to justify your choice to ignore certain teachings in the Qur'an.

Well I feel a lot better about that.
Never the less your opinions have changed on a number of issues and if you want to , I can post the links to prove it .
You can attribute the altered understanding to what ever you wish.
But in THE

END BELIEVERS ALWAYS MISUNDERSTAND ISLAM THE SAME WAY
SOON YOU WILL JOIN THEM.

.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Just a last word before I unsubscribe this thread. Apparently, I hit real pay dirt with my comments or I wouldn't be reading such venomous posts. I leave you with this to rave and rant to your heart's content.

"You have two qualities which God, the Most Exalted, likes and loves. One is mildness and the other is toleration." Prophet Muhammad: Riyadh us-Saleheen Volume 1:632

Wouldn't it be something if muslims lived by that scripture.

It will be something that ANYBODY live by those useless words in Bible, Koran, Torah, whatever...

If you really want to meet someone who does that I can tell you where to look, I know quite a few.

 

[Hister]

Really ?
Can a non muslim possess greater knowledge than a muslim?

About Islam? Of course not.

True, but an outsider will see things that someone on the inside will miss out. They will spot the contradictions and bullshits that the insider is so used to. This does not only apply to Islam, but to a lot of things as well.

So kalam, there's not ONE kafir who knows more about islam than you do?