My thank you and my confession

[theliq]

What a load of bullshit. The facts are documented. Making things up doesn't make it true. Jews owned less than 5% of the land prior to partition.

Actually it is not bullshit. Those are the numbers gathered by the British Mandate government survey of the land in question. The percentages that were used to determine what land the British would transfer to the Jews.

In 1866 Samuel Clemens went to the Middle East, and was sorely disappointed. It was deserted and desolate. He saw one nomad. That is the arid piece of nothing that was given to the Jews. God increased the rain, just like He said He would and promised that they would become fruitful. And they have.

The Muslims that migrated there, and set up house in Israel hadn't been in that area long enough to even be considered uprooted citizens entitled to the status and aid as refugees.

King Hussein's knowledge concerning the Muslims that were hung out to dry by the Egyptians:

"Since 1948 Arab leaders have approached the Palestine problem in an irresponsible manner. They have used the Palestine people for selfish political purposes. This is ridiculous, and I could say, even criminal."

This isn't a consequence of Israel becoming a nation. We are asking the wrong country to make amends to the refugees. Look at the size of Israel. Look at the size of Egypt. Which country is in the better position to carve a slice out for the Palestinians? Egypt, the ones that caused them to leave their homes, or Israel, the ones that begged them to stay?

Israel knows full well that the Palestinian will never accept Israels coursory offers.....and why should they.

 

[Phoenall]

Then perhaps you didn't learn everything.

To be Pro-Palestine is not just another way of being anti-Israel.

Then the Pro Israel must by the same criteria not be anti Palestinian

No, the correct analogy would be Israel supporters not necessarily being anti-Muslim or anti-Christian.

You will find very few Pro Israel people that are anti Christian. But most are anti islam because they live in countries just starting to face islamonazi violence, belligerence and arrogance just as the Israeli's are. To be pro islam is just another way to be pro terrorism, pro violence and pro land theft

 

[Phoenall]

What a load of bullshit. The facts are documented. Making things up doesn't make it true. Jews owned less than 5% of the land prior to partition.

Actually it is not bullshit. Those are the numbers gathered by the British Mandate government survey of the land in question. The percentages that were used to determine what land the British would transfer to the Jews.

In 1866 Samuel Clemens went to the Middle East, and was sorely disappointed. It was deserted and desolate. He saw one nomad. That is the arid piece of nothing that was given to the Jews. God increased the rain, just like He said He would and promised that they would become fruitful. And they have.

The Muslims that migrated there, and set up house in Israel hadn't been in that area long enough to even be considered uprooted citizens entitled to the status and aid as refugees.

King Hussein's knowledge concerning the Muslims that were hung out to dry by the Egyptians:

"Since 1948 Arab leaders have approached the Palestine problem in an irresponsible manner. They have used the Palestine people for selfish political purposes. This is ridiculous, and I could say, even criminal."

This isn't a consequence of Israel becoming a nation. We are asking the wrong country to make amends to the refugees. Look at the size of Israel. Look at the size of Egypt. Which country is in the better position to carve a slice out for the Palestinians? Egypt, the ones that caused them to leave their homes, or Israel, the ones that begged them to stay?

Israel knows full well that the Palestinian will never accept Israels coursory offers.....and why should they.

Why should the Jews accept the islamonazi's demands that will end up in another holocaust. Then escalate into more demands in other nations for Islamic segments because the muslims have been there for 2000 years. And so the lies will start all over again, and the illegal rockets and the murders of children until they get what they want. OR THEY GET RUN OUT OF TOWN ONCE AND FOR ALL

 

[Kondor3]

Land for Peace does not work for Israel.

The only way the Palestinians (and the rest of the neighboring Muslims) are going to be satisfied is after each and every single Jew has left the Holy Land, or is dead, and when the Holy Land - and especially Jerusalem - is back in Muslim hands.

No amount of land turn-over is going to change that.

Ever,

So, given that state of affairs... why bother even trying?

The Israelis learned that hard and bitter lesson, a long time ago, from the Muslims themselves.

But, it is the Fate of Man, that every 20 or 30 or 40 or 50 years, some yahoo or another, will try to re-package and sell the same old shit, in a different wrapper; hoping that enough folks have forgotten or grown-up in the meantime, without that on their scopes.

But, wrapper aside, it's still the same, old non-viable shit, and is simply a non-starter.

There is nothing new under the sun, so-to-speak, insofar as land-for-peace proposals are concerned.

Give 'em what they want now, and they'll be back at your throats in a year or two or three, for the next chunk... and so on and so forth... until they have it all.

Not gonna happen.

 

[Coyote]

Then perhaps you didn't learn everything.

To be Pro-Palestine is not just another way of being anti-Israel.

Then the Pro Israel must by the same criteria not be anti Palestinian

No, the correct analogy would be Israel supporters not necessarily being anti-Muslim or anti-Christian.

You will find very few Pro Israel people that are anti Christian. But most are anti islam because they live in countries just starting to face islamonazi violence, belligerence and arrogance just as the Israeli's are. To be pro islam is just another way to be pro terrorism, pro violence and pro land theft

90% (at a guess) of the rabidly "Pro-Israel" folks here are die-hard Christian Evangelicals who support Israel for their own religious regions. Of course they won't be anti-Christian and most are anti-Islam because they know little about Islam aside from what they read on the internet.

 

[The Irish Ram]

If I knew nothing of Islam, but the video aspect of their terrorist twisted minds, I'd still be pro Israel. Were I not Christian, I would still be pro Israel. I am for the ones not burning people alive and not slaughtering row after row of children sitting at their school desks.

 

[Coyote]

If I knew nothing of Islam, but the video aspect of their terrorist twisted minds, I'd still be pro Israel. Were I not Christian, I would still be pro Israel. I am for the ones not burning people alive and not slaughtering row after row of children sitting at their school desks.

Most Muslims are not either.

 

[The Irish Ram]

So are those the Muslims that want Israeli land? Or is it the terrorist next door neighbors, Hamas?

 

[Coyote]

So are those the Muslims that want Israeli land? Or is it the terrorist next door neighbors, Hamas?

None of the above. You are referring to Boko Haram (a Nigerian extremist group) and ISIS.

 

[Phoenall]

Then perhaps you didn't learn everything.

To be Pro-Palestine is not just another way of being anti-Israel.

Then the Pro Israel must by the same criteria not be anti Palestinian

No, the correct analogy would be Israel supporters not necessarily being anti-Muslim or anti-Christian.

You will find very few Pro Israel people that are anti Christian. But most are anti islam because they live in countries just starting to face islamonazi violence, belligerence and arrogance just as the Israeli's are. To be pro islam is just another way to be pro terrorism, pro violence and pro land theft

90% (at a guess) of the rabidly "Pro-Israel" folks here are die-hard Christian Evangelicals who support Israel for their own religious regions. Of course they won't be anti-Christian and most are anti-Islam because they know little about Islam aside from what they read on the internet.

And you would be 100% wrong as I am not an Evangelical and I don't know of any other posters on here who are. Many know as much or not more about islam than 99% of team Palestine because they have done the research on the subject. They know for starters that very few terrorists are not muslims, that most wars in the last 100 years have involved muslims or islam in one way or another. That islam spreads through violence and terrorism until they are the majority force, that muslims have no humanity or morals. That islam and muslims lie so that anti semitics can feel pleased about hating the Jews even though they know that the muslims are lying. We know that Mohamed was a hypocrite and two faced when he made new laws that the broke himself before taking another breath. He even changed a law to allow himself to marry his sons wife and his brothers 6 year old daughter. Bet you did not know those facts about islam did you ?

 

[Phoenall]

If I knew nothing of Islam, but the video aspect of their terrorist twisted minds, I'd still be pro Israel. Were I not Christian, I would still be pro Israel. I am for the ones not burning people alive and not slaughtering row after row of children sitting at their school desks.

Most Muslims are not either.

Don't be so sure about that as the wars raging for control of Islamic nation prove both sides are killing, raping and cleansing in the name of islam.

 

[Penelope]

In 1948, sure many Arabs/Moslems were expelled from Israel (abt 750,000), but at the same time more like a million Jews were expelled from the neighboring Arab countries.

Actually, it was not more like a million. Approximately 876,000 Palestinians were expelled or fled. It was about the same number 800,000 Jews, and like the Palestinians they fled for multiple reasons - some were expelled, some fled in fear of unrest and persecution, some to escape poverty.

Then perhaps you didn't learn everything.

To be Pro-Palestine is not just another way of being anti-Israel.

In many ways, that's exactly what it is.

I disagree.

I think that is often thrown out to shut off debate.

Being Pro-Palestinian, to me - is recognizing the rights of the Palestinians for self determination in the form of either a state or full and equal citizenship, equality, and justice.

It does not mean being "anti-Israel" - I support Israel's right to exist and it's right to defend itself just like any other state.

And that is the key: like any other state.

Once the Palestinians have a state then they will be held to the same standards and same sanctions if they fail to hold up to the responsibilities of a modern state.

That's not being anti-Israel - it's about justice, equality, and doing what's right by people.

We need to know the facts before meting judgment on Israel. There were no Palestinians to expel. Here is the breakdown of property ownership prior to Israel becoming a Nation:
71.2% Britain
8.6% Jewish
3.3% resident Arabs
16.9% non resident Arabs.

What wasn't mandated to the Jews (71.2%) was bought by the Jews at a very high price from the Arabs. (16.9%). Of the 3.3% of Arab residents, (430,000) left on their own accord when the neighboring Arab countries told them to due to an upcoming invasion of Israel by Egypt and the other Muslim neighbors.
THIS was Israel's response to the exodus of those few Arabs:
"Do not fear. Do not destroy your homes with your own hands. Do not bring upon yourself tragedy by unnecessary evacuation and self imposed burdens...But in this city, yours and ours, Haifa, the gates are open for work, for life, and for peace for you and your families."

^That is a far cry from being thrown off of their property by the Jews. According to the Arab National Committee1950:
"The motivation for Arabs leaving Israel, came from Arab leadership. The removal of the Arab inhabitants was voluntary and was carried out at our request."
Those Arabs that were told to leave weren't allowed entry into these Arab countries though, and had no choice but to squat on Israeli land. They had lived in Israel for less than 24 months and didn't even qualify for aid as a refugee. They hadn't lived in Israel long enough to qualify. The law had to be changed in order to supply international aid. They weren't Palestinians. There was no Palestine. They were Egyptians living in Israel, Syrians living in Israel.......

Want to make it right? Insist on a two state solution between Egypt and "Palestinian"/Hamas. Syria and "Palestinian"/Hamas. Israel didn't make them refugees and does not owe them one inch of Israel.

I just posted something today, shows that Jews were a minority. but of course some people consider Arabs non human. Unbelievable.

 

[Phoenall]

So are those the Muslims that want Israeli land? Or is it the terrorist next door neighbors, Hamas?

None of the above. You are referring to Boko Haram (a Nigerian extremist group) and ISIS.

So explain why hamas decided to mass murder children in 2007 who happened to be the offspring of fatah members. And this was happening as late as last year just before fatah announced a truce, then promptly broke it. Did you know that in 2007 casualty rates in gaza rose by over 250% and at the time the IDF was not engaged in any fighting with the people of gaza. But team Palestine blamed Israel for the injuries and deaths.

For proof that it is the arab muslim Palestinians that want Israeli land look no further than their charters which all say there will never be peace until the Jews are all dead and the land is taken by islam.

 

[Phoenall]

In 1948, sure many Arabs/Moslems were expelled from Israel (abt 750,000), but at the same time more like a million Jews were expelled from the neighboring Arab countries.

Actually, it was not more like a million. Approximately 876,000 Palestinians were expelled or fled. It was about the same number 800,000 Jews, and like the Palestinians they fled for multiple reasons - some were expelled, some fled in fear of unrest and persecution, some to escape poverty.

Then perhaps you didn't learn everything.

To be Pro-Palestine is not just another way of being anti-Israel.

In many ways, that's exactly what it is.

I disagree.

I think that is often thrown out to shut off debate.

Being Pro-Palestinian, to me - is recognizing the rights of the Palestinians for self determination in the form of either a state or full and equal citizenship, equality, and justice.

It does not mean being "anti-Israel" - I support Israel's right to exist and it's right to defend itself just like any other state.

And that is the key: like any other state.

Once the Palestinians have a state then they will be held to the same standards and same sanctions if they fail to hold up to the responsibilities of a modern state.

That's not being anti-Israel - it's about justice, equality, and doing what's right by people.

We need to know the facts before meting judgment on Israel. There were no Palestinians to expel. Here is the breakdown of property ownership prior to Israel becoming a Nation:
71.2% Britain
8.6% Jewish
3.3% resident Arabs
16.9% non resident Arabs.

What wasn't mandated to the Jews (71.2%) was bought by the Jews at a very high price from the Arabs. (16.9%). Of the 3.3% of Arab residents, (430,000) left on their own accord when the neighboring Arab countries told them to due to an upcoming invasion of Israel by Egypt and the other Muslim neighbors.
THIS was Israel's response to the exodus of those few Arabs:
"Do not fear. Do not destroy your homes with your own hands. Do not bring upon yourself tragedy by unnecessary evacuation and self imposed burdens...But in this city, yours and ours, Haifa, the gates are open for work, for life, and for peace for you and your families."

^That is a far cry from being thrown off of their property by the Jews. According to the Arab National Committee1950:
"The motivation for Arabs leaving Israel, came from Arab leadership. The removal of the Arab inhabitants was voluntary and was carried out at our request."
Those Arabs that were told to leave weren't allowed entry into these Arab countries though, and had no choice but to squat on Israeli land. They had lived in Israel for less than 24 months and didn't even qualify for aid as a refugee. They hadn't lived in Israel long enough to qualify. The law had to be changed in order to supply international aid. They weren't Palestinians. There was no Palestine. They were Egyptians living in Israel, Syrians living in Israel.......

Want to make it right? Insist on a two state solution between Egypt and "Palestinian"/Hamas. Syria and "Palestinian"/Hamas. Israel didn't make them refugees and does not owe them one inch of Israel.

I just posted something today, shows that Jews were a minority. but of course some people consider Arabs non human. Unbelievable.

If they act like non humans then that is how they will be seen as non humans. Time to stop the violence and terrorism don't you think

 

[Coyote]

Then perhaps you didn't learn everything.

To be Pro-Palestine is not just another way of being anti-Israel.

Then the Pro Israel must by the same criteria not be anti Palestinian

No, the correct analogy would be Israel supporters not necessarily being anti-Muslim or anti-Christian.

You will find very few Pro Israel people that are anti Christian. But most are anti islam because they live in countries just starting to face islamonazi violence, belligerence and arrogance just as the Israeli's are. To be pro islam is just another way to be pro terrorism, pro violence and pro land theft

90% (at a guess) of the rabidly "Pro-Israel" folks here are die-hard Christian Evangelicals who support Israel for their own religious regions. Of course they won't be anti-Christian and most are anti-Islam because they know little about Islam aside from what they read on the internet.

And you would be 100% wrong as I am not an Evangelical

No, you would simply be the10% of folks who are not.

and I don't know of any other posters on here who are.

Then you really aren't following things very closely at all.

Many know as much or not more about islam than 99% of team Palestine because they have done the research on the subject.

Uh huh.

They know for starters that very few terrorists are not muslims,

List of terrorist incidents - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

that most wars in the last 100 years have involved muslims or islam in one way or another.

Category 20th-century conflicts - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

You might want to do some more "research".

 

[Coyote]

If I knew nothing of Islam, but the video aspect of their terrorist twisted minds, I'd still be pro Israel. Were I not Christian, I would still be pro Israel. I am for the ones not burning people alive and not slaughtering row after row of children sitting at their school desks.

Most Muslims are not either.

Don't be so sure about that as the wars raging for control of Islamic nation prove both sides are killing, raping and cleansing in the name of islam.

I am pretty sure about when you take into account the world wide Muslim population.

 

[Coyote]

So are those the Muslims that want Israeli land? Or is it the terrorist next door neighbors, Hamas?

None of the above. You are referring to Boko Haram (a Nigerian extremist group) and ISIS.

So explain why hamas decided to mass murder children in 2007 who happened to be the offspring of fatah members.

I don't need to explain anything. The poster was referring to actions by Boko Haram and Isis. I'm not sure what your point is here.

And this was happening as late as last year just before fatah announced a truce, then promptly broke it. Did you know that in 2007 casualty rates in gaza rose by over 250% and at the time the IDF was not engaged in any fighting with the people of gaza. But team Palestine blamed Israel for the injuries and deaths.

Here is the death rate in Gaza: Gaza Strip - Death rate - Historical Data Graphs per Year

It's not indicating a 250% increase. Now I can't find casualty rates but I would think it would be reflected in the overall death rates.

For proof that it is the arab muslim Palestinians that want Israeli land look no further than their charters which all say there will never be peace until the Jews are all dead and the land is taken by islam.

Not sure about that. Palestinian polls still show a majority of in favor of a two-state solution while Netanyahu's re-election seems to indicate a sizeable number of Israeli's now wanting one state, without many Palestinians.

 

[Phoenall]

Then the Pro Israel must by the same criteria not be anti Palestinian

No, the correct analogy would be Israel supporters not necessarily being anti-Muslim or anti-Christian.

You will find very few Pro Israel people that are anti Christian. But most are anti islam because they live in countries just starting to face islamonazi violence, belligerence and arrogance just as the Israeli's are. To be pro islam is just another way to be pro terrorism, pro violence and pro land theft

90% (at a guess) of the rabidly "Pro-Israel" folks here are die-hard Christian Evangelicals who support Israel for their own religious regions. Of course they won't be anti-Christian and most are anti-Islam because they know little about Islam aside from what they read on the internet.

And you would be 100% wrong as I am not an Evangelical

No, you would simply be the10% of folks who are not.

and I don't know of any other posters on here who are.

Then you really aren't following things very closely at all.

Many know as much or not more about islam than 99% of team Palestine because they have done the research on the subject.

Uh huh.

They know for starters that very few terrorists are not muslims,

List of terrorist incidents - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

that most wars in the last 100 years have involved muslims or islam in one way or another.

Category 20th-century conflicts - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

You might want to do some more "research".

Maybe you should as the first link states "The following is a list of non-state terrorist incidents that have not been carried out by a government or its forces"


Your second link misses out the many conflicts in the horn of Africa that involved islam, or the many Islamic civil wars. But still list 17 wars involving islam as combatants.

OH! and research leads to this


This user account facilitates a bot operated by Wikipedia administrator Cyde Weys.


And shows it was edited by User:إماراتي 1971

 

[Phoenall]

If I knew nothing of Islam, but the video aspect of their terrorist twisted minds, I'd still be pro Israel. Were I not Christian, I would still be pro Israel. I am for the ones not burning people alive and not slaughtering row after row of children sitting at their school desks.

Most Muslims are not either.

Don't be so sure about that as the wars raging for control of Islamic nation prove both sides are killing, raping and cleansing in the name of islam.

I am pretty sure about when you take into account the world wide Muslim population.

Then they are in breach of their religion and face the usual punishment.

 

[Phoenall]

So are those the Muslims that want Israeli land? Or is it the terrorist next door neighbors, Hamas?

None of the above. You are referring to Boko Haram (a Nigerian extremist group) and ISIS.

So explain why hamas decided to mass murder children in 2007 who happened to be the offspring of fatah members.

I don't need to explain anything. The poster was referring to actions by Boko Haram and Isis. I'm not sure what your point is here.

And this was happening as late as last year just before fatah announced a truce, then promptly broke it. Did you know that in 2007 casualty rates in gaza rose by over 250% and at the time the IDF was not engaged in any fighting with the people of gaza. But team Palestine blamed Israel for the injuries and deaths.

Here is the death rate in Gaza: Gaza Strip - Death rate - Historical Data Graphs per Year

It's not indicating a 250% increase. Now I can't find casualty rates but I would think it would be reflected in the overall death rates.

For proof that it is the arab muslim Palestinians that want Israeli land look no further than their charters which all say there will never be peace until the Jews are all dead and the land is taken by islam.

Not sure about that. Palestinian polls still show a majority of in favor of a two-state solution while Netanyahu's re-election seems to indicate a sizeable number of Israeli's now wanting one state, without many Palestinians.

Now why do islamonazi stooges always start the death rates at 2000 and not at 1948. Could it be that in 2000 the Israelis put up the barriers and stopped the arab muslims from planting bombs to kill children ?