Muslims are our friends but Islam is the enemy of Western Civilization?

[High_Gravity]

Those are authoritarian countries that either manipulate Islam in a manner that benefits the ruler or forsake it entirely. An Islamic society is a caliphate modeled entirely and exclusively on the Qur'an and the actions of Muhammad (SAWS) and the Successors (RA).

So your telling me an Islamic society exclusively following the Quran will embrace Jews and Christians as equals?

In what sense?

Christians and Jews should have the exact same rights as Muslims in a Muslim country, is that possible?

 

[Jroc]

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim).

"Killing the Jews" is a parenthetical addition by the author and the site you link to makes no attempt to hide its bias. Nonetheless, you can find the quote I posted if you bother to scroll down.

"Discredited."

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjxm3OSy4EE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjxm3OSy4EE[/ame]

 

[logical4u]

Hamas is a humane movement, which cares for human rights and is committed to the tolerance inherent in Islam as regards attitudes towards other religions. It is only hostile to those who are hostile towards it, or stand in its way in order to disturb its moves or to frustrate its efforts. Under the shadow of Islam it is possible for the members of the three religions: Islam, Christianity and Judaism to coexist in safety and security. - Charter of Hamas, Article 31

The Ku Klux Klan also said they don't hate black people or wish violence upon them, but just wish to live separate.

That is a good comparison.

 

[logical4u]

No, the only territory that should be restricted to Muslim residents is the Hijaz in Saudi Arabia. Jews and Christians and members of other religious groups are welcome to live as citizens in an Islamic society.

Somehow I get a feeling people in Egypt, Pakistan and Afghanistan disagree with you.

Those are authoritarian countries that either manipulate Islam in a manner that benefits the ruler or forsake it entirely. An Islamic society is a caliphate modeled entirely and exclusively on the Qur'an and the actions of Muhammad (SAWS) and the Successors (RA).

Somewhere over the rainbow, skies are blue.....

 

[logical4u]

Hamas is a humane movement, which cares for human rights and is committed to the tolerance inherent in Islam as regards attitudes towards other religions. It is only hostile to those who are hostile towards it, or stand in its way in order to disturb its moves or to frustrate its efforts. Under the shadow of Islam it is possible for the members of the three religions: Islam, Christianity and Judaism to coexist in safety and security. - Charter of Hamas, Article 31

The Ku Klux Klan also said they don't hate black people or wish violence upon them, but just wish to live separate.

Big difference HG

Muslims are not racist and will marry Jews and Christians of any color.

Some of the KKK guys had/have black lovers/mistresses. Your point?

 

[Foxfyre]

When the Arab population in East Jerusalem was polled as to whether they would choose to be Palestinian citizens or Israeli citizens should an agreement be reached to establish a separate nation of Palestine, only 30% chose to be Palestinian citizens. The fact that an Islamic mosque still sits on the Dome of the Rock speaks to Israeli tolerance for Islam.

Most of the so called muslims who responded that they wanted to stay Israeli citizens are "Druze".

Druze are muslims in name only.

And are Not accepted as muslims by either Shia or Sunni muslims.

They have always sided with Israel in exchange for protection.

Druze are the "sell outs" and "Uncle Toms" of the Middle East.

So to use them in any poll about Muslims is totally misleading and disingenuous.

The awkward fact is that the 270,000 Arabs who live in East Jerusalem may not be very enthusiastic about joining Palestine. The survey, which was designed and supervised by former State Department Middle East researcher David Pollock, found that only 30 percent said they would prefer to be citizens of Palestine in a two-state solution, while 35 percent said they would choose Israeli citizenship. (The rest said they didn't know or refused to answer.) Forty percent said they would consider moving to another neighborhood in order to become a citizen of Israel rather than Palestine, and 54 percent said that if their neighborhood were assigned to Israel, they would not move to Palestine.


The reasons for these attitudes are pretty understandable, even healthy. Arabs say they prefer Israel's jobs, schools, health care and welfare benefits to those of a Palestinian state -- and their nationalism is not strong enough for them to set aside these advantages in order to live in an Arab country. The East Jerusalemites don't much love Israel -- they say they suffer from discrimination. But they seem to like what it has to offer. Remarkably, 56 percent said they traveled inside Israel at least once a week; 60 percent said access to its Mediterranean beaches was "very important" or "moderately important" to them.

"Quite clearly there is a discrepancy between people's attitudes and the assumption that Palestinian neighborhoods should be part of Palestine," said Pollock, whose work was sponsored by Pechter Middle East polls and the Council on Foreign Relations. "That's not actually what the people want."

It's important to note that East Jerusalem Palestinians are different from West Bank or Gaza Palestinians -- they live on Israel's side of its West Bank barrier and hold "blue cards" that allow them access to Israeli jobs, health care, and welfare payments. Many are middle class by Middle Eastern standards -- 44 percent of those surveyed had household incomes of more than $1,300 per month. Broadly, they resemble Israel's Arab citizens, who have also been shown in polls to prefer remaining in Israel to joining a Palestinian state.
PostPartisan - Why Palestinians want to be Israeli citizens

I can find no authoritative source that says there is a concentration of Druze in East Jerusalem. Demographics of East Jerusalem show a large Arab Muslim majority, a small Jewish minority, a handful of Christians. No Druze.

However (apologies for a Wiki source but I believe this to be correct and didn't want to take time to locate a better one):

Following the 1967 war, Israel conducted a census in East Jerusalem and granted permanent Israeli residency to those Arab Jerusalemites present at the time of the census. Those not present lost the right to reside in Jerusalem. Jerusalem Palestinians were permitted to apply for Israeli citizenship, provided they met the requirements for naturalization—such as swearing allegiance to Israel and renouncing all other citizenships—which most of them refused to do. At the end of 2005, 93% of the Arab population of East Jerusalem had permanent residency and 5% had Israeli citizenship.[30]

As residents, East Jerusalemites rejecting Israeli citizenship have the right to vote in municipal elections and play a role in the administration of the city. Residents pay taxes, and following a 1988 Israeli Supreme Court ruling, East Jerusalem residents are guaranteed the right to social security benefits and state health care.
East Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The status of those non-Israeli East Jerusalem residents would change, however, should East Jerusalem officially become part of a recognized state of Palestine. All of the Jews and a plurality of the Arabs would choose Israeli citizenship rather than Palestinian citizenship. A somewhat smaller group would choose Palestinian citizenship. A sizable group wouldn't say one way or the other which is also interesting.

 

[Ropey]

Not really.

Apples to oranges.

Not so Sunni Man.

Both are humans. Regardless of what you may think.

 

[High_Gravity]

The Ku Klux Klan also said they don't hate black people or wish violence upon them, but just wish to live separate.

Big difference HG

Muslims are not racist and will marry Jews and Christians of any color.

Some of the KKK guys had/have black lovers/mistresses. Your point?

Thats a good point, plus alot of Nazis didn't mind using Jewish women as sex slaves.

 

[Kalam]

So your telling me an Islamic society exclusively following the Quran will embrace Jews and Christians as equals?

In what sense?

Christians and Jews should have the exact same rights as Muslims in a Muslim country, is that possible?

Their legal rights are the same and they, like Muslims, may vote for candidates and run for office in representative councils and be appointed to other local and national government positions. It goes without saying that they serve as judges at every level of their respective religious courts.

The Khalifah, his delegated assistant, governers, and provincial mayors are considered "ruling" positions and as such must be filled by Muslims, since Islam is the guiding ideology of the state and no country can expect to last long if it allows itself to be ruled by people who don't believe in its fundamental philosophy.

 

[Ropey]

One question though, to be completely clear Kalam.

Is there any room for Israel in the ME? If so, what is that room?

 

[Kalam]

The Ku Klux Klan also said they don't hate black people or wish violence upon them, but just wish to live separate.

Big difference HG

Muslims are not racist and will marry Jews and Christians of any color.

Some of the KKK guys had/have black lovers/mistresses. Your point?

The KKK and the modern groups that succeeded it were founded on racial discrimination; Islam forbids it. Yours?

 

[Ropey]

Big difference HG

Muslims are not racist and will marry Jews and Christians of any color.

Some of the KKK guys had/have black lovers/mistresses. Your point?

The KKK and the modern groups that succeeded it were founded on racial discrimination; Islam forbids it. Yours?

Islam demands all Muslims to submit to Allah AND all others to be subordinate to the will of those Muslims who submit to Allah. If they do not subordinate themselves to the will of those Muslims who submit to Allah, then comes the military jihad.

Where is the inclusion of choice in Islam?

 

[Foxfyre]

. . . .no country can expect to last long if it allows itself to be ruled by people who don't believe in its fundamental philosophy.

And ladies and gentlemen, Kalam, in this one short but extremely important phrase, has nailed the basic thesis of this thread.

 

[Sunni Man]

Big difference HG

Muslims are not racist and will marry Jews and Christians of any color.

Some of the KKK guys had/have black lovers/mistresses. Your point?

Thats a good point, plus alot of Nazis didn't mind using Jewish women as sex slaves.

The difference is that KKK or Nazis were with these women in secret and didn't dare marry them.


Muslims marry Jewish or Christians out in the open with the approval of their families, society, and religion.

Then start a family and raise children like anyone else.

 

[Kalam]

One question though, to be completely clear Kalam.

Is there any room for Israel in the ME? If so, what is that room?

If you're referring to the Jewish people of Palestine and their social and religious institutions, yes. If you're referring to the system of government in place there, no. In that sense my outlook toward Israel is no different than my outlook toward every other nation in the region.

 

[Kalam]

. . . .no country can expect to last long if it allows itself to be ruled by people who don't believe in its fundamental philosophy.

And ladies and gentlemen, Kalam, in this one short but extremely important phrase, has nailed the basic thesis of this thread.

I'm glad that we agree on that point.

 

[logical4u]

In what sense?

Christians and Jews should have the exact same rights as Muslims in a Muslim country, is that possible?

Their legal rights are the same and they, like Muslims, may vote for candidates and run for office in representative councils and be appointed to other local and national government positions. It goes without saying that they serve as judges at every level of their respective religious courts.

The Khalifah, his delegated assistant, governers, and provincial mayors are considered "ruling" positions and as such must be filled by Muslims, since Islam is the guiding ideology of the state and no country can expect to last long if it allows itself to be ruled by people who don't believe in its fundamental philosophy.

That looks like: ABSOLUTELY NOT, THERE IS NO WAY CHRISTIAN OR JEWS WOULD BE TOLERATED AS EQUALS. We will throw in little statements on paper that can be taken away with one muslim "bearing false witness" and falsely accusing the unbelievers as blasphemers. But we muslims will lie, cheat and break any other commandment when it comes to dealing with someone that does not believe as we believe. Honor and integrity are ideas to control other people, not how mulims live.

Disclaimer: this does not pertain to ALL muslims, just the ones that refuse to see Sharia as destructive to any society.

 

[Kalam]

Islam demands all Muslims to submit to Allah AND all others to be subordinate to the will of those Muslims who submit to Allah.

The emboldened part of your statement is incorrect unless it has a meaning other than that which seems apparent.

 

[Foxfyre]

Big difference HG

Muslims are not racist and will marry Jews and Christians of any color.

Some of the KKK guys had/have black lovers/mistresses. Your point?

The KKK and the modern groups that succeeded it were founded on racial discrimination; Islam forbids it. Yours?

Here you are in an area that I am really not familiar with. I know Islam is not limited to any particular race, yet I do know that there is and has been racial discrimination in some Arab states that are predominantly Muslim.

This site for instance is certainly not one I would say was objective or without a specific agenda, but is the information re racial discrimination cited--most especially in the video--incorrect?

LEBANON: MUSLIM ‘apartheid’ policies forbid blacks from entering swimming pools Bare Naked Islam's Weblog

Christianity does not advocate any racial discrimination either but there are no doubt Christians who are prejudiced. The U.S. Constitution forbids racial discrimination but the KKK nevertheless exists. Policy and reality are not always the same thing.

 

[logical4u]

Some of the KKK guys had/have black lovers/mistresses. Your point?

Thats a good point, plus alot of Nazis didn't mind using Jewish women as sex slaves.

The difference is that KKK or Nazis were with these women in secret and didn't dare marry them.


Muslims marry Jewish or Christians out in the open with the approval of their families, society, and religion.

Then start a family and raise children like anyone else.

You mean the muslim men that treat muslim women like pigs and dogs (and then breed them) are willing to treat Christian and Jewish women the same, wow! Is there no end to the consideration you show?