Muslims are our friends but Islam is the enemy of Western Civilization?

[Sunni Man]

Didn't the UK more or less recently agree to allow the Muslims to circumvent some of the British court system and instead implement parts of Sharia law?

Foxfyre you use highly biased and inflammatory language all of the time.

Muslims haven't "circumvented" the court system in the UK or the US

The Jews have had Judaic courts call the Beth Din for many years.

And nobody said a word.

Muslims do the same thing and it's a huge deal.

Creeping Sharia!!!

London Beth Din - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Sunni Man]

And once they achieve a minority, in every place they have ever been, there is no acknoweldgement of unalienable rights, there is loss of at least some basic freedoms, and all the population is required to respect all or some of the edicts of Allah.

Please provide an example of a country this has happened to in modern history?

 

[Foxfyre]

Didn't the UK more or less recently agree to allow the Muslims to circumvent some of the British court system and instead implement parts of Sharia law?

Foxfyre you use highly biased and inflammatory language all of the time.

Muslims haven't "circumvented" the court system in the UK or the US

The Jews have had Judaic courts call the Beth Din for many years.

And nobody said a word.

Muslims do the same thing and it's a huge deal.

Creeping Sharia!!!

London Beth Din - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I call it as I see it. Sorry if you think my language is inflammatory. I try to make what I say as precise and honest as possible. Yes there is accommodation made for Jewish tradition but I have NEVER heard any Jew suggest that it is the intent of Judaism to put the whole world under Jewish Law or traditions. There is also accommodation for Christian traditions in many countries but, with a few exceptions, most Christians have no intent of ever requiring you to live under any concept of "Christian" law or to obey Christian traditions or edicts. We learned long ago that such produces far more unintended negative consequences than positive outcome. Islam has yet to learn that I think.

I suggest you read the entire thread so that you will better understand the concept that is being discussed here and get back to me on that.

 

[Sunni Man]

I think Muslim's assault on Western Civilization is planned and is being at least in part orchestrated by those who intend the destruction of Western Civilization.

Foxfyre you claim to have muslims that are personal friends.

How many of them are part of a "planned assault" on Western Civilization?

 

[Blagger]

Unfortunately, history shows you to be putting out bullshit.

When countries become Islamized, they step backwards in time. As you know.

Islamization is the antithesis to everything American, and the enemy of freedom, liberty and life.

Whilst I've disagreed with Alliebaba in the past, this is something I know I can comment on with more authority than most here on USMB.

As you know, the UK and the other rich nations the liberal European Union depends upon to fund their multi-cultural utopia, have all seen an undeniable influx of immigration from Islamic states. Unlike other immirants from other parts of the world, the muslim immigrants are largely peasants from the armpits of Asia and Africa who proceed to build a little Baghdad in the town they've settled in. They revert once respectable parts of town into what can only be described as a medieval reflection of what life was once like in the middle east. Whole extended families all move into a one bedroom apartment. Their lack of hygiene soon spreads disease through their community. They refuse to speak the mother tongue of their adoptive country. In short, they do exactly what Alliebaba has described, they take whole neighbourhood back in time; and they expect everyone else to adapt around them; and if they don't, they envoke their human rights. For example, are you familiar with the part of London, made famous by Jack the Ripper, called Whitechapel? Well, it's now so overun by Islamic peasants that it's now locally referred to as 'BrownMosque'.

Aside from that...

Another (often) overlooked (incase of causing offense among muslims) reason westerners oppose muslim immigrants after 9/11, into what are universally aknowledged as Christian lands i.e United States, United Kingdom and western Europe (I'm an Atheist, but you can't deny the majority Christian influence on western society), is that these lands are being threatened by a group of people who whorship Allah. True, these are a minority amongst muslims, but this minority have a track record of attacking from within, after exploiting otherwise well intended immigration policies; so one can sympathise with those angry or suspicious that these muslim immigrants are or maybe laughing at their hosts behind their backs.

I think Muslim's assault on Western Civilization is planned and is being at least in part orchestrated by those who intend the destruction of Western Civilization. I mean the USA and most of Europe is really fertile ground with policy and laws in place that include everybody and that accommodate Islamic traditions and beliefs. And it's so PC to be supportive and tolerant of religion even though some of the same people find it fashionable to be critical and scornful of Christians and Jews.

Didn't the UK more or less recently agree to allow the Muslims to circumvent some of the British court system and instead implement parts of Sharia law?

We see the pattern repeated again again.

Muslims in small numbers are respectable and lovable people.
As they become larger minority groups though, they invariably begin petitioning governments for more and more concessions to the Muslim faith--recognition of Muslim holy days, accommodations of the Muslim prayer schedule, accommodation for Muslim dietary taboos, etc. etc. etc.
And once they achieve a minority, in every place they have ever been, there is no acknoweldgement of unalienable rights, there is loss of at least some basic freedoms, and all the population is required to respect all or some of the edicts of Allah.

Non Muslim countries outside of Western Civilization are much less receptive and make it much more difficult for Islam to get a foothold to launch an attack from within.

Yes and no. In 2008 the British government quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and

 

[Foxfyre]

I think Muslim's assault on Western Civilization is planned and is being at least in part orchestrated by those who intend the destruction of Western Civilization.

Foxfyre you claim to have muslims that are personal friends.

How many of them are part of a "planned assault" on Western Civilization?

Again I encourage you to read the entire thread and all the comments I have made on this subject. Then you won't be so likely to ask such a foolish question.

 

[Sunni Man]

I think Muslim's assault on Western Civilization is planned and is being at least in part orchestrated by those who intend the destruction of Western Civilization.

Foxfyre you claim to have muslims that are personal friends.

How many of them are part of a "planned assault" on Western Civilization?

Again I encourage you to read the entire thread and all the comments I have made on this subject. Then you won't be so likely to ask such a foolish question.

I already read the thread.

So how am I being foolish when I point out your own words and call you on it?

Did you write them or not??

 

[Ropey]

I think Muslim's assault on Western Civilization is planned and is being at least in part orchestrated by those who intend the destruction of Western Civilization. I mean the USA and most of Europe is really fertile ground with policy and laws in place that include everybody and that accommodate Islamic traditions and beliefs. And it's so currently fashionably PC to be supportive and tolerant of Muslims and the Muslim religion even though some of the same people find it fashionable to be critical and scornful of Christians and Jews.

Didn't the UK more or less recently agree to allow the Muslims to circumvent some of the British court system and instead implement parts of Sharia law?

We see the pattern repeated again again.

Muslims in small numbers are respectable and lovable people.
As they become larger minority groups though, they invariably begin petitioning governments for more and more concessions to the Muslim faith--recognition of Muslim holy days, accommodations of the Muslim prayer schedule, accommodation for Muslim dietary taboos, etc. etc. etc.
And once they achieve a minority, in every place they have ever been, there is no acknoweldgement of unalienable rights, there is loss of at least some basic freedoms, and all the population is required to respect all or some of the edicts of Allah.

Non Muslim countries outside of Western Civilization are much less receptive and make it much more difficult for Islam to get a foothold to launch an attack from within.

I do not believe there is "A" planned assault. There might be quite a few planned assaults from different sects of Islam. Certainly there is a Muslim Brotherhood movement into arenas that it can manipulate its power bases.

This is not the only one. There is one going on in Gaza and has been going on for nigh on ten years, where Shia Arabians have been moving in and are now magically "Palestinians" and who are armed and trained by Shia Iran. The Chechen conflict is damning proof of this MB connection.

Of course these things are happening. But a global Muslim conspiracy to enact these movements?

I don't think so.

And I believe that if the Western philosophy is unable to protect their laws from Islam, then they will go the way of the weak.

So it has been for the survival of the species. I personally have faith that the Western philosophy is safe.

If America allows Muslims to leave America and marry their first cousins in their Muslim countries, and then travel back to America, then Americans deserve the results. If America allows fundamental Sharia implementation to be enacted, then they do this. Look to Britain. Canada understands. I think America does as well, they just need more time for American jurisprudence and legislation is a slow beast. We ca

I know we are looking at this revamping of laws and have already tossed out any attempts to introduce Sharia aspects in Canada. Canada went even further and outlawed ANY forms of extralegal community aspects except Native Indian Family laws. They tossed out Jewish law and even the Mennonite laws which has resulted in fourth, third, second and first generation Canadian Mennonites are leaving to Germany.

Attempts to set up Sharia courts in Canada in 2005 were abandoned after protests. The Jewish community and the Catholic community did not want Muslims introducing Sharia into Canada, so they accepted the decision to ban all religious arbitration in Ontario, including their own respective tribunals.

We are a nation of laws and our laws can deal with extralegal attempts to create a path of silent sedition.

Canadian Muslims Abandon Hope of Sharia Law in Canada

 

[Ropey]

Ropey's a mole?

I've got a mole.

I'm not, but even if I was, so what? These are simply words we are posting here. What is there to defend on an Internet Political Discussion Forum?

Really?

 

[Foxfyre]

I think Muslim's assault on Western Civilization is planned and is being at least in part orchestrated by those who intend the destruction of Western Civilization. I mean the USA and most of Europe is really fertile ground with policy and laws in place that include everybody and that accommodate Islamic traditions and beliefs. And it's so currently fashionably PC to be supportive and tolerant of Muslims and the Muslim religion even though some of the same people find it fashionable to be critical and scornful of Christians and Jews.

Didn't the UK more or less recently agree to allow the Muslims to circumvent some of the British court system and instead implement parts of Sharia law?

We see the pattern repeated again again.

Muslims in small numbers are respectable and lovable people.
As they become larger minority groups though, they invariably begin petitioning governments for more and more concessions to the Muslim faith--recognition of Muslim holy days, accommodations of the Muslim prayer schedule, accommodation for Muslim dietary taboos, etc. etc. etc.
And once they achieve a minority, in every place they have ever been, there is no acknoweldgement of unalienable rights, there is loss of at least some basic freedoms, and all the population is required to respect all or some of the edicts of Allah.

Non Muslim countries outside of Western Civilization are much less receptive and make it much more difficult for Islam to get a foothold to launch an attack from within.

I do not believe there is "A" planned assault. There might be quite a few planned assaults from different sects of Islam. Certainly there is a Muslim Brotherhood movement into arenas that it can manipulate its power bases.

This is not the only one. There is one going on in Gaza and has been going on for nigh on ten years, where Shia Arabians have been moving in and are now magically "Palestinians" and who are armed and trained by Shia Iran. The Chechen conflict is damning proof of this MB connection.

Of course these things are happening. But a global Muslim conspiracy to enact these movements?

I don't think so.

And I believe that if the Western philosophy is unable to protect their laws from Islam, then they will go the way of the weak.

So it has been for the survival of the species. I personally have faith that the Western philosophy is safe.

If America allows Muslims to leave America and marry their first cousins in their Muslim countries, and then travel back to America, then Americans deserve the results. If America allows fundamental Sharia implementation to be enacted, then they do this. Look to Britain. Canada understands. I think America does as well, they just need more time for American jurisprudence and legislation is a slow beast. We ca

I know we are looking at this revamping of laws and have already tossed out any attempts to introduce Sharia aspects in Canada. Canada went even further and outlawed ANY forms of extralegal community aspects except Native Indian Family laws. They tossed out Jewish law and even the Mennonite laws which has resulted in fourth, third, second and first generation Canadian Mennonites are leaving to Germany.

Attempts to set up Sharia courts in Canada in 2005 were abandoned after protests. The Jewish community and the Catholic community did not want Muslims introducing Sharia into Canada, so they accepted the decision to ban all religious arbitration in Ontario, including their own respective tribunals.

We are a nation of laws and our laws can deal with extralegal attempts to create a path of silent sedition.

Canadian Muslims Abandon Hope of Sharia Law in Canada

No, I don't think it is a global conspiracy or a coordinated organized effort either. But the ultimate goal of all Islam is that all should be under the authority of Allah. It is commanded in their sacred writings. And I think when Islam gains a substantial foothold in any accommodating place--and most places in the west are more accommodating than are many other places--the mosques and Islamic centers can be headed by strong, ambitious, powerful people. And then the pressure begins and is relentless, gradually gaining here and there until it becomes a problem for the non-Muslim populations. To deny that this has happened in the UK, France, Belgium, and other places in the west is just not supportable.

And when Islam achieves a majority and control of the government, you cannot point to ANY country ANYWHERE in which basic human unalienable rights are recognized or where people have not lost significant freedoms.

This does not impact good, honest, productive, peaceful Muslim people that probably all of us know. Again this is not intended to suggest that ALL Muslims intend to destroy western civilization. Sunniman should acknowledge that I have not only defended him when he has been unfairly attacked but I have also praised the peaceful Islamic groups in this country who I believe do not intend the destruction of western civilization.

To recognize and appreciate that all are not the problem is the honorable and right thing to do. To recognize and appreciate that there is nevertheless a problem I think is going to be necessary to preserve western civilization.

 

[Jroc]

They are just ahead of Islam at the moment and considering Islam is the youngest of the three Abraham religions, this makes sense.
We are simply a single generation in a multi-generational movement of humanity. We need to look at the historical perspective to gain a clearer view.

People are fearful that their way of life is going to change. Of course it is going to change. That's life and humanity, and Islam is part of that life and humanity. Just as all the other world's beliefs and platforms are part and parcel of the human approach.

I believe it will come and will modernize and will help us also modify and change in acceptance.

Ropey don't you think Islam is behind in its modernization? If you consider that Christianity was not a major religion until it was accepted by Rome early in the 4th century and Islam conquered Mecca early in the 7th century there is really only a 300 year difference between them, I seems to me that Islam is way behind in there modernization, why do you think that is?

 

[Foxfyre]

They are just ahead of Islam at the moment and considering Islam is the youngest of the three Abraham religions, this makes sense.
We are simply a single generation in a multi-generational movement of humanity. We need to look at the historical perspective to gain a clearer view.

People are fearful that their way of life is going to change. Of course it is going to change. That's life and humanity, and Islam is part of that life and humanity. Just as all the other world's beliefs and platforms are part and parcel of the human approach.

I believe it will come and will modernize and will help us also modify and change in acceptance.

Ropey don't you think Islam is behind in its modernization? If you consider that Christianity was not a major religion until it was accepted by Rome early in the 4th century and Islam conquered Mecca early in the 7th century there is really only a 300 year difference between them, I seems to me that Islam is way behind in there modernization, why do you think that is?

I'm not Ropey, but in fairness to Islam, it was just something over 200 years ago (1620) that the first of the New World settlers arrived. They came to escape the oppressive religious rules of the Old Country and then proceeded to set up equally repressive rules here. The last of the Salem Witch trials was in 1692.

The one difference here is that the religious oppression was restricted to colonies in relatively small areas and one group did not presume to impose its beliefs on the next group a state away. Then by the 18th Century, our Founders were wise enough to realize that enforced religious practices made it impossible to protect unalienable rights they wanted all people to have. Therefore, the federal government was prohibited from establishing any form of religion or requiring religious activity or allegiance of any kind from anybody. Nor could they interfere with anybody's religious beliefs. And that has been the law of our land since 1791.

So we Christians haven't modernized much faster than has Islam. I just don't want to lose our freedoms, culture, and way of life in the next three hundred years it may take them to catch up.

 

[Ropey]

If it is to modernize and does so in the way both Judaism and Christianity have, then history would point to an external reformation.

If 'Nejad gets his way, there will be some serious reforming going on. It may well be that he was intended to 'get the ball rolling'.

And likely then people will wake up. Like they did the last time. If they do. They most certainly are not waking up to Darfur, which is as monumental a program of systematic and generational genocide as this world has ever seen. A country.

Worse is to come to Darfur. So much worse and where is the outcry? Even with movie stars such as Richard Gere stomping about this systematic murder of a culture, people want to pretend it is not so. It is so! Entire tribes are having their men and boy children murdered, the women raped to produce children of a different cultures tribes.

If nothing is done about that, what will it take? There is a fatalism when one looks around the globe. It's a sad thing is global perspective. So, I find faith is my way to recognize that it's not that important considering my ability to change one iota of it.

Then when I read some of the people here speaking about Gaza and Hamas and the cruel treatment, I say "Who Is Creating This Genocide?"

The first thing they say is, "It's Complex."

If one is insane or an idiot it may be to complex, but it is not hard to recognize and see where the impetus is coming from. Take out a checker board and replace the black checkers with all red checkers.

What say you Sunni Man?

 

[GHook93]

If the man runs for President I will donate money to his cause (even for his next House Election) and vote for him.

 

[AllieBaba]

Ropey's a mole?

And what's with the "bodecca" vs. "boedicca" thing??? No wonder I get freaked out about the identity of posters.

And what's with "Strollingbones" aka "bones" and "Bones" the new guy who lives in a moldy trailer?

Ropey has idetified himself as a Jew practicing the Jewish religion and I've judged him to be a reasonable and decent sort.

Bodecea is strongly leftwing/liberal - Boedicca is a well informed conservative. No relation.

Also no relation between Strollingbones who is an institution at USMB and Bones, a relative newcomer. Different sexes. Different approach to things. Different people.

I just realized the boe/bod thing.

So is there a Del and a del?

 

[Foxfyre]

Foxfyre you claim to have muslims that are personal friends.

How many of them are part of a "planned assault" on Western Civilization?

Again I encourage you to read the entire thread and all the comments I have made on this subject. Then you won't be so likely to ask such a foolish question.

I already read the thread.

So how am I being foolish when I point out your own words and call you on it?

Did you write them or not??

If you read the entire thread you would have known the answer to your questions before you asked them. So I don't believe you when you say you read the entire thread before deciding to challenge my perspective on this.

I don't mind at all anybody challenging my perspective or opinions on anything. If my perspective or opinion cannot be competently defended, then I need to change it. You are free to believe that there is no such thing as an Islam like what the witness was describing in that video. I believe there is. It isn't at all like you, however, to be a numbnut and suggest that I am putting all Muslims into the same pot here. I didn't and I went to some care to be very specific about that.

Read the thread.

Then we can discuss it.

 

[Blagger]

Whilst I've disagreed with Alliebaba in the past, this is something I know I can comment on with more authority than most here on USMB.

As you know, the UK and the other rich nations the liberal European Union depends upon to fund their multi-cultural utopia, have all seen an undeniable influx of immigration from Islamic states. Unlike other immirants from other parts of the world, the muslim immigrants are largely peasants from the armpits of Asia and Africa who proceed to build a little Baghdad in the town they've settled in. They revert once respectable parts of town into what can only be described as a medieval reflection of what life was once like in the middle east. Whole extended families all move into a one bedroom apartment. Their lack of hygiene soon spreads disease through their community. They refuse to speak the mother tongue of their adoptive country. In short, they do exactly what Alliebaba has described, they take whole neighbourhood back in time; and they expect everyone else to adapt around them; and if they don't, they envoke their human rights. For example, are you familiar with the part of London, made famous by Jack the Ripper, called Whitechapel? Well, it's now so overun by Islamic peasants that it's now locally referred to as 'BrownMosque'.

Aside from that...

Another (often) overlooked (incase of causing offense among muslims) reason westerners oppose muslim immigrants after 9/11, into what are universally aknowledged as Christian lands i.e United States, United Kingdom and western Europe (I'm an Atheist, but you can't deny the majority Christian influence on western society), is that these lands are being threatened by a group of people who whorship Allah. True, these are a minority amongst muslims, but this minority have a track record of attacking from within, after exploiting otherwise well intended immigration policies; so one can sympathise with those angry or suspicious that these muslim immigrants are or maybe laughing at their hosts behind their backs.

I think Muslim's assault on Western Civilization is planned and is being at least in part orchestrated by those who intend the destruction of Western Civilization. I mean the USA and most of Europe is really fertile ground with policy and laws in place that include everybody and that accommodate Islamic traditions and beliefs. And it's so PC to be supportive and tolerant of religion even though some of the same people find it fashionable to be critical and scornful of Christians and Jews.

Didn't the UK more or less recently agree to allow the Muslims to circumvent some of the British court system and instead implement parts of Sharia law?

We see the pattern repeated again again.

Muslims in small numbers are respectable and lovable people.
As they become larger minority groups though, they invariably begin petitioning governments for more and more concessions to the Muslim faith--recognition of Muslim holy days, accommodations of the Muslim prayer schedule, accommodation for Muslim dietary taboos, etc. etc. etc.
And once they achieve a minority, in every place they have ever been, there is no acknoweldgement of unalienable rights, there is loss of at least some basic freedoms, and all the population is required to respect all or some of the edicts of Allah.

Non Muslim countries outside of Western Civilization are much less receptive and make it much more difficult for Islam to get a foothold to launch an attack from within.

Yes and no. In 2008 the British government quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and

There was three more paragraphs in this reply when I went to bed last night. Was what I wrote too close to the bone for someone?

 

[Foxfyre]

I think Muslim's assault on Western Civilization is planned and is being at least in part orchestrated by those who intend the destruction of Western Civilization. I mean the USA and most of Europe is really fertile ground with policy and laws in place that include everybody and that accommodate Islamic traditions and beliefs. And it's so PC to be supportive and tolerant of religion even though some of the same people find it fashionable to be critical and scornful of Christians and Jews.

Didn't the UK more or less recently agree to allow the Muslims to circumvent some of the British court system and instead implement parts of Sharia law?

We see the pattern repeated again again.

Muslims in small numbers are respectable and lovable people.
As they become larger minority groups though, they invariably begin petitioning governments for more and more concessions to the Muslim faith--recognition of Muslim holy days, accommodations of the Muslim prayer schedule, accommodation for Muslim dietary taboos, etc. etc. etc.
And once they achieve a minority, in every place they have ever been, there is no acknoweldgement of unalienable rights, there is loss of at least some basic freedoms, and all the population is required to respect all or some of the edicts of Allah.

Non Muslim countries outside of Western Civilization are much less receptive and make it much more difficult for Islam to get a foothold to launch an attack from within.

Yes and no. In 2008 the British government quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and

There was three more paragraphs in this reply when I went to bed last night. Was what I wrote too close to the bone for someone?

Not sure what you're fishing for here, but yes, always criticism of Islam (or any other religious group including Atheists) is too close to the bone for someone. So is defense of religion to some people.

I, as a Christian, do get tired of the ridiculous accusations launched against it by many anti-Christian types, the straw men builtnor red herrings or non sequiturs used to condemn Christianity as it is now,and the condemnation of it by reference to its sometimes less than commendable past. I have always freely acknowledged the sins of the Church and the destructive policies in the name of religion that have been utilized over the last 2000 years.

And I will also defend Christianity when it is unfairly attacked. I do so by setting the record straight.

It is undeniable that in modern times ALL places where Christianity has attained a majority, there are more freedoms and more prosperity and more quality of life than is enjoyed by many nations that are not predominantly Christians. Some Christian nations are poorer than others. Some are plagued by more lawlessness or by more totalitarian style governments. But nowhere is anybody's unalienable rights, property, freedoms, or opportunities hindered or threatened by Christians. The rare and tiny idiot groups like Westboro Baptist Church I don't even consider to be Christian. They certainly don't behave like it.

The acknowledgment, respect for, and defense of our unalienable, legal, Constitutional, and civil rights in this country I believe are a direct result of the Christian roots from which most of our laws are derived.

And I also can appreciate Muslims who take exception when they feel Islam is unfairly attacked. The difference is I can usually defend Christianity with logic, reason, and/or hard evidence and can do so without accusing the messenger.

Muslims seem to have much more difficulty defending Islam and do more often seem to accuse the messenger.

 

[Sunni Man]

But nowhere is anybody's unalienable rights, property, freedoms, or opportunities hindered or threatened by Christians.

You sure about that?

Lord's Resistance Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Modbert]

,and the condemnation of it by reference to its sometimes less than commendable past. I have always freely acknowledged the sins of the Church and the destructive policies in the name of religion that have been utilized over the last 2000 years.

That's a nice way to phrase it, sugar coating it.

It is undeniable that in modern times ALL places where Christianity has attained a majority, there are more freedoms and more prosperity and more quality of life than is enjoyed by many nations that are not predominantly Christians.

I like how you try to phrase it in a very specific way. Four of the five most populous Muslim countries have elected female leaders (Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Turkey), how many female Presidents has the United States elected?

I would also like to point out that if our laws were on the basis of Christianity like some countries are with Islam then several of the freedoms you are talking about would disappear. I'm not out to bash Christianity, however, one should look at the full reality of the situation when trying to put one religion on a higher pedestal then another religion.