Muqtada al-Sadr, Iraqi Cleric, Tells Followers To Stop Attacking U.S. Troops

[Sallow]

He probably would try to establish some sort of Iran-based government. Muqtada has, in the past, rejected Iran, but praised the Velayat-e faqhih. I believe he viewed the Iranian government as corrupt and an improper representation of Islam (or maybe it was bad blood from the decade-long war). But, since he spent nearly half a decade living in Iran, he seems to have changed his mind.

Still, the Kurds would not go for that and Muqtada doesn't have enough national support. His primary base is with the poor, particularly in Sadr City in Baghdad. He's gained a lot of power in the south, but the ISCI is still bigger and more powerful than the Sadrists.

It won't work. Iraqis still have a bad taste in their mouths over the Iran/Iraq war. There may be a treaty of some sort but tribalism will quickly kick in.

They have a common "enemy" now. Remove it and the old hurts will kick in.

 

[High_Gravity]

He probably would try to establish some sort of Iran-based government. Muqtada has, in the past, rejected Iran, but praised the Velayat-e faqhih. I believe he viewed the Iranian government as corrupt and an improper representation of Islam (or maybe it was bad blood from the decade-long war). But, since he spent nearly half a decade living in Iran, he seems to have changed his mind.

Still, the Kurds would not go for that and Muqtada doesn't have enough national support. His primary base is with the poor, particularly in Sadr City in Baghdad. He's gained a lot of power in the south, but the ISCI is still bigger and more powerful than the Sadrists.

The Kurds don't want us to leave, they don't trust Moqtada anymore than we do and they still don't want to be subjugated under another Arab government in Baghdad and I don't blame them, my guess is the Kurds will continue to live in semi autonomy like they have been the past 20 years, the Kurds don't view Baghdad as their Capital, their capital is Irbil, they have their own international airport there, they basically have their own Military the Peshmerga and they don't even fly the Iraqi flag in Kurdistan, they fly the Kurdish flag. Kurdistan is the safest place in Iraq hands down especially for foreigners looking to invest, the Kurds are ahead of the Arabs in that country, the Arabs know that and it pisses them off so there may be a conflict in the future when we leave.

 

[freedombecki]

Step in the right direction.

D'ya think?

War Crimes of Muqtada al Sad'r

My recollection of this murderous figure was that he hated America more than Hussein, who killed his father, his grandfather, etc, even after we helped him, he was continually stabbing us in the back.

imho, it's nice it looks like he's turned over a new leaf, but it's only to get American forces out of Iraq.

These telling them when we're leaving only gives avowed separatists and extremist muslim groups ammunition against other groups in Iraq, and if too many troops leave, our troops become enemy combatants of which to rid themselves.

I don't think Muqtada has forgiven those who participated in his family members' demises.

I would like to know how the man treats women in his sect. Is he fair to them? Will he let women vote? Or is he just another extremist who wants America to leave so he can resume enslaving women instead of liberating them from bad and unjust laws.

There are too many questions in my mind to be comfortable with this.

Moqtada is not turning over a new leaf, he is a liar who says one thing and than does another just like so many others in the region. He came out and told his group to stop attacking US Forces right? well the thing he is said they were in a cease fire already and would not resume fighting us unless we stay past the deadline, so either he doesn't have as much control over his group as he likes to think, which is very likely, or he lied about the ceasefire in the first place and the Mahdi Army was always attacking us, which I think is the case.

As far as womens rights I really don't know what to tell you, I really doubt that is high up on Moqtadas priority, more than likely right now he is counting the days until US Forces leave Iraq so he strike back at his enemies and unleash his Mahdi Army and really start to take control of the country, thats what I'm betting on. Moqtada spent some years in Iran and I am guessing the system he wants to put in place is something very similar to what they have.

Thanks.
\
Mr. Gravity, you seem to have a true heart in your observances over there. There's one thing that truly puzzles me. It's the attitude that people like Iraq's Hussein had against the Kurds, and I've heard these people have also aroused the Ire of Turkey lately. Do you have a thread on the Kurds that explains their plight? Why do all their neighbors keep landing on them with threats of genocide and containment? I just don't get it, and I just don't get it some more. What's the root? Are they secret Jews, or something that causes their neighbors to whack away at them with all the ferocity they can get away with and still be part of the world community? Why do their neighbors view them as stickers under their camel's blankets. There must be a cause for other Iraqis, who used gas on 30 Kurdish villages years back. They're always under seige by some upset neighbor. What poisons the Arab universe against the Kurdish people? I just don't get it.

 

[Article 15]

Man, I haven't heard that name in a long time. I wouldn't trust that dude at all.

 

[High_Gravity]

D'ya think?

War Crimes of Muqtada al Sad'r

My recollection of this murderous figure was that he hated America more than Hussein, who killed his father, his grandfather, etc, even after we helped him, he was continually stabbing us in the back.

imho, it's nice it looks like he's turned over a new leaf, but it's only to get American forces out of Iraq.

These telling them when we're leaving only gives avowed separatists and extremist muslim groups ammunition against other groups in Iraq, and if too many troops leave, our troops become enemy combatants of which to rid themselves.

I don't think Muqtada has forgiven those who participated in his family members' demises.

I would like to know how the man treats women in his sect. Is he fair to them? Will he let women vote? Or is he just another extremist who wants America to leave so he can resume enslaving women instead of liberating them from bad and unjust laws.

There are too many questions in my mind to be comfortable with this.

Moqtada is not turning over a new leaf, he is a liar who says one thing and than does another just like so many others in the region. He came out and told his group to stop attacking US Forces right? well the thing he is said they were in a cease fire already and would not resume fighting us unless we stay past the deadline, so either he doesn't have as much control over his group as he likes to think, which is very likely, or he lied about the ceasefire in the first place and the Mahdi Army was always attacking us, which I think is the case.

As far as womens rights I really don't know what to tell you, I really doubt that is high up on Moqtadas priority, more than likely right now he is counting the days until US Forces leave Iraq so he strike back at his enemies and unleash his Mahdi Army and really start to take control of the country, thats what I'm betting on. Moqtada spent some years in Iran and I am guessing the system he wants to put in place is something very similar to what they have.

Mr. Gravity, you seem to have a true heart in your observances over there. There's one thing that truly puzzles me. It's the attitude that people like Hussein had against the Kurds, and I've heard these people have also aroused the Ire of Turkey lately. Do you have a thread on the Kurds that explains their plight? Why do all their neighbors keep landing on them with threats of genocide and containment? I just don't get it, and I just don't get it some more. What's the root? Are they secret Jews, or something that causes their neighbors to whack away at them with all the ferocity they can get away with and still be part of the world community? I just don't get it.

The Kurds got screwed out of their own country when the borders were drawn up for the countries of Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria. Kurds are not Arabs, Turks or Persians, they are their own distinct culture, they are mainly Sunni Muslims but are mainly secular in nature, they don't really fit in with the Arabs, Persians and Turks and they are disliked and seen as a burden, which is why Saddam tried to kill them all and why the Turks have been trying to as well. In Turkey the Kurds were not even allowed to teach their own language in schools.The Kurds were protected by us with the no fly zone we set up in Northern Iraq after the first gulf war, so we have been kind of a big brother to them you could say, most Kurds like America and don't have any problems with us for the most part, you won't see Kurds burning American flags and carrying on like in other countries in the region.

The Kurds also have dealing with Israel, Israeli commandos have been to Kurdistan in Iraq to train the Pesh Merga, another reason for the Arabs, Iranians and Turks to despise them. The Kurds are in a rock in a hard place you could say, they really do need and deserve their own country because Iran, Syria, Iraq and Turkey really don't want them around but there is really no chance we could convince all these countries to give up land for them, the Kurds are a good people, Kurdistan is the only place in Iraq where no American troops have been hurt and Westerners can actually walk around without fear of being kidnapped or shot. I would love to see them have their own country but because of all the politics involved and there is really no way we can convince these countries to give up land for them, I don't really see anything changing in the future. Its a shame because they deserve better, they are one of the few groups of people in the region besides Israel who will have our backs.

 

[High_Gravity]

Man, I haven't heard that name in a long time. I wouldn't trust that dude at all.

No doubt, he is a snake in the grass and he is just telling us what we want to hear and doing something completely the opposite.

 

[pgm]

It won't work. Iraqis still have a bad taste in their mouths over the Iran/Iraq war. There may be a treaty of some sort but tribalism will quickly kick in.

They have a common "enemy" now. Remove it and the old hurts will kick in.

(Note for clarification, this is an addendum to what you are saying, not an argument against it):

Something to keep in mind about Iraq is just how tribal it is. We in the West like to view it as Shi'a Arabs, Sunni Arabs and Kurds, but that barely scratches the surface. Unless you can tell me something about all of the tribes in this list, you really are not an expert on Iraq. At the minimum, you have to know which tribes are major players and who is friends with whom. Some of the Sunni tribes are closer to the Shi'a tribes than other Sunnis. Some have ties to Ba'athists, others do not. It's an incredibly complicated web.

Here's a statistic for you just to show you how important tribal relations are in Iraq: nearly half of all marriages are between first or second cousins. Outsiders are simply not to be trusted in Iraq. Tribalism runs deep.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kurdistan is the safest place in Iraq hands down especially for foreigners looking to invest, the Kurds are ahead of the Arabs in that country, the Arabs know that and it pisses them off so there may be a conflict in the future when we leave.

Iraqi Kurdistan is the brightest thing to come out of the war. It's supposed to be a great destination for tourists. If only Baghdad could be like that. Baghdad was once the greatest city in the Middle East and as recently as either the '70s or '80s was considered a great place to have some fun (lots of booze).

The Kurds got screwed out of their own country when the borders were drawn up for the countries of Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria. Kurds are not Arabs, Turks or Persians, they are their own distinct culture, they are mainly Sunni Muslims but are mainly secular in nature, they don't really fit in with the Arabs, Persians and Turks and they are disliked and seen as a burden, which is why Saddam tried to kill them all and why the Turks have been trying to as well. In Turkey the Kurds were not even allowed to teach their own language in schools.

In terms of ethno-linguistics and culture, they're the closest to the Persians. To be more accurate, they're Iranian (like the Afghani Pashtuns), but they're not Persian. I saw some genetic analysis that found that Iraqi Kurds have definitely intermarried with the local Arabs, although their language and culture have remained Kurdish.

Like you said, the Turks have treated the Kurds poorly. Until 1991, the Turks didn't even recognize that the Kurds existed. They were called "Mountain Turks." There was some ethnic cleansing done by the Young Turks, although not to the degree that the Armenians suffered. This is probably because the Kurds were seen as less of a threat because they were Muslim and would not side with Christian Russia (one of the primary reasons for the Armenian genocide).

 

[GHook93]

Step in the right direction.

You are a true mental midget! The minute we leave (and it should be soon regardless), a bloody civil war will emerge. It will be a three prong war, that ends with a Turkish invasion.

(1) The Sunnis get knocked out of the government and the Iraqi government reverts back to a theocracy.
(2) The Sunnis start a guerrila terrorist campaign aided by Saudi Arabia.
(3) The Shia Iraqi government starts to crack down with brutal force. Mean while the Kurds are eating popcorn and watching.
(4) A civil war draw down secular lines embarks. With Iran aiding the Shias and Saudi Arabia aiding the Sunnis.
(5) With both Shia and Sunnis taking huge blows. The Kurds declare their independence claiming the northern oil fields which are not currently under their control. The Shia Iraq government declares war on the Kurds and they start to fight, but they are more worried about the Sunnis.
(6) Soon Turkey without justification or provocation invades Kurdistan!

Iraq becomes a cluster fuck!

 

[High_Gravity]

It won't work. Iraqis still have a bad taste in their mouths over the Iran/Iraq war. There may be a treaty of some sort but tribalism will quickly kick in.

They have a common "enemy" now. Remove it and the old hurts will kick in.

(Note for clarification, this is an addendum to what you are saying, not an argument against it):

Something to keep in mind about Iraq is just how tribal it is. We in the West like to view it as Shi'a Arabs, Sunni Arabs and Kurds, but that barely scratches the surface. Unless you can tell me something about all of the tribes in this list, you really are not an expert on Iraq. At the minimum, you have to know which tribes are major players and who is friends with whom. Some of the Sunni tribes are closer to the Shi'a tribes than other Sunnis. Some have ties to Ba'athists, others do not. It's an incredibly complicated web.

Here's a statistic for you just to show you how important tribal relations are in Iraq: nearly half of all marriages are between first or second cousins. Outsiders are simply not to be trusted in Iraq. Tribalism runs deep.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kurdistan is the safest place in Iraq hands down especially for foreigners looking to invest, the Kurds are ahead of the Arabs in that country, the Arabs know that and it pisses them off so there may be a conflict in the future when we leave.

Iraqi Kurdistan is the brightest thing to come out of the war. It's supposed to be a great destination for tourists. If only Baghdad could be like that. Baghdad was once the greatest city in the Middle East and as recently as either the '70s or '80s was considered a great place to have some fun (lots of booze).

The Kurds got screwed out of their own country when the borders were drawn up for the countries of Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria. Kurds are not Arabs, Turks or Persians, they are their own distinct culture, they are mainly Sunni Muslims but are mainly secular in nature, they don't really fit in with the Arabs, Persians and Turks and they are disliked and seen as a burden, which is why Saddam tried to kill them all and why the Turks have been trying to as well. In Turkey the Kurds were not even allowed to teach their own language in schools.

In terms of ethno-linguistics and culture, they're the closest to the Persians. To be more accurate, they're Iranian (like the Afghani Pashtuns), but they're not Persian. I saw some genetic analysis that found that Iraqi Kurds have definitely intermarried with the local Arabs, although their language and culture have remained Kurdish.

Like you said, the Turks have treated the Kurds poorly. Until 1991, the Turks didn't even recognize that the Kurds existed. They were called "Mountain Turks." There was some ethnic cleansing done by the Young Turks, although not to the degree that the Armenians suffered. This is probably because the Kurds were seen as less of a threat because they were Muslim and would not side with Christian Russia (one of the primary reasons for the Armenian genocide).

I think you pretty much nailed it, the Kurds may be related to the Iranians but Iran really wants nothing to do with them. The Kurds are basically the red headed step children in all the countries they reside at in the Middle East, its really a shame they don't have their own country because if they did we here in the US would definently have a good relationship with them, they are one of the very few people in the Middle East who support the US and they can be trusted. I really wish Baghdad would be more like Kurdistan, if it was we could have been done in Iraq militarily years ago and we could have gotten farther in reconstruction and really doing business with the Iraqis.

 

[freedombecki]

Moqtada is not turning over a new leaf, he is a liar who says one thing and than does another just like so many others in the region. He came out and told his group to stop attacking US Forces right? well the thing he is said they were in a cease fire already and would not resume fighting us unless we stay past the deadline, so either he doesn't have as much control over his group as he likes to think, which is very likely, or he lied about the ceasefire in the first place and the Mahdi Army was always attacking us, which I think is the case.

As far as womens rights I really don't know what to tell you, I really doubt that is high up on Moqtadas priority, more than likely right now he is counting the days until US Forces leave Iraq so he strike back at his enemies and unleash his Mahdi Army and really start to take control of the country, thats what I'm betting on. Moqtada spent some years in Iran and I am guessing the system he wants to put in place is something very similar to what they have.

Mr. Gravity, you seem to have a true heart in your observances over there. There's one thing that truly puzzles me. It's the attitude that people like Hussein had against the Kurds, and I've heard these people have also aroused the Ire of Turkey lately. Do you have a thread on the Kurds that explains their plight? Why do all their neighbors keep landing on them with threats of genocide and containment? I just don't get it, and I just don't get it some more. What's the root? Are they secret Jews, or something that causes their neighbors to whack away at them with all the ferocity they can get away with and still be part of the world community? I just don't get it.

The Kurds got screwed out of their own country when the borders were drawn up for the countries of Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria. Kurds are not Arabs, Turks or Persians, they are their own distinct culture, they are mainly Sunni Muslims but are mainly secular in nature, they don't really fit in with the Arabs, Persians and Turks and they are disliked and seen as a burden, which is why Saddam tried to kill them all and why the Turks have been trying to as well. In Turkey the Kurds were not even allowed to teach their own language in schools.The Kurds were protected by us with the no fly zone we set up in Northern Iraq after the first gulf war, so we have been kind of a big brother to them you could say, most Kurds like America and don't have any problems with us for the most part, you won't see Kurds burning American flags and carrying on like in other countries in the region.

The Kurds also have dealing with Israel, Israeli commandos have been to Kurdistan in Iraq to train the Pesh Merga, another reason for the Arabs, Iranians and Turks to despise them. The Kurds are in a rock in a hard place you could say, they really do need and deserve their own country because Iran, Syria, Iraq and Turkey really don't want them around but there is really no chance we could convince all these countries to give up land for them, the Kurds are a good people, Kurdistan is the only place in Iraq where no American troops have been hurt and Westerners can actually walk around without fear of being kidnapped or shot. I would love to see them have their own country but because of all the politics involved and there is really no way we can convince these countries to give up land for them, I don't really see anything changing in the future. Its a shame because they deserve better, they are one of the few groups of people in the region besides Israel who will have our backs.

Thanks, High Gravity. That makes it a lot clearer to me. Your description reminds me of the Kuwaitis, except the Kuwaitis have power due to their oil wealth. Before Saddam invaded Kuwait, I knew some students from Kuwait at Oregon State University. Of course, they were the only other people in the library when I was there (all the time ) They took their education in the United States very seriously, and they stayed together in a group. One day after the war was over, I saw one of the students on television (all grown up) who had worked his way up and was some kind of a minister of foreign relations, being spokesperson for the leadership in the country. When I knew him, he had his eye on the very beautiful girl who was always in the library working on whatever she was studying at the time. Of course, that was a long time ago, and I just wondered if he won her over or not. Maybe he did.

Anyway, I was upset the whole time Saddam was in Kuwait, and that's when I got really interested in Middle Eastern affairs. I really didn't know the kids all that well, but I admired how they looked out for one another, and was worried when I heard a couple of thousand Kuwaitis died. I've always thought of the Kuwaitis as friends. They are like what you described the Kurds as--liking the American people. I hope all those who visited at the library same time as me were ok. I grew fond of them, looked forward to seeing them; then was heartbroken when their country was invaded, wishing I hadn't been so busy and a little too shy to ask my quiet study friend for an address to send Christmas cards to. It's hard to be social when studying takes all your time. Their government paid for all Kuwaitis to be educated, and their literacy rate always used to be tops in the Middle East. I knew exactly why.

 

[Trajan]

Step in the right direction.

I don't really believe him though, he was already supposedly holding back his troops from attacking US Troops until the troop deadline, how he is telling them to stop, so he is basically admitting they were attacking US Troops the whole time.

He's well respected in Iraq. He's not a "terrorist" in that his call has been always for expelling troops foreign to his nation. This is a good step for Iraq.

well aside form the murder he engineered no, or the Basra bloodbath..... hes quite the man of peace

 

[Trajan]

Muqtada al-Sadr, Iraqi Cleric, Tells Followers To Stop Attacking U.S. Troops

BAGHDAD — An anti-American cleric is urging his followers to stop attacking U.S. troops in Iraq so that their withdrawal from the country isn't slowed down, a call meant to ramp up pressure on Baghdad's political leaders who are considering asking some American forces to stay.

In a statement posted on his website, Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr told his militias to halt attacks against U.S. forces till the withdrawal is finished at the end of the year as required under a security agreement between Washington and Baghdad.

"Out of my desire to complete Iraq's independence and to finish the withdrawal of the occupation forces from our holy lands, I am obliged to halt military operations of the honest Iraqi resistance until the withdrawal of the occupation forces is complete," al-Sadr said in the statement, posted late Saturday. Sadrist lawmaker Mushraq Naji confirmed the statement on Sunday.

However, al-Sadr warned that "if the withdrawal doesn't happen ... the military operations will be resumed in a new and tougher way."

The statement followed last week's notice by U.S. officials in Baghdad, announcing the start of the withdrawal.

There are currently about 45,000 U.S. forces in Iraq.

However, U.S. and Iraqi leaders are currently weighing whether some American troops should remain past the Dec. 31 deadline as Baghdad continues to struggle with instability and burgeoning influence from neighboring Iran. Last month, Iraqi leaders began negotiating with U.S. officials in Baghdad to keep at least several thousand troops in Iraq to continue training the nation's shaky security forces.

Officials in Washington say President Barack Obama is willing to keep between 3,000 and 10,000 U.S. troops in Iraq. But with fewer than four months before the final deadline, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and parliament still have not indicated how many U.S. troops Iraq might need, how long they would stay, or exactly what they would be doing.

After more than eight years of war, many weary Iraqis are ready to see U.S. troops go, and staunchly defend their national sovereignty against an American force they see as occupiers. Al-Sadr's followers vehemently oppose a continued U.S. military presence in Iraq, and walked out of last month's meeting where political leaders decided to open the talks on having American troops stay.

"Our goal has been always to fight the occupiers because they are still in our country," Naji said Sunday.

Still, other Iraqi officials privately say they want American troops to continue training the nation's security forces for months, if not years, to come. The president of Iraq's northern Kurdish region this week pleaded for U.S. forces to stay to ward off threats of renewed sectarian violence.

Many Iraqis – both Sunnis and Shiites – share that fear.

"As for me, and the sheiks of Nasiriyah, we want the U.S. Army to stay," Sheik Manshad al-Ghezi of the southern Shiite city of Nasiriyah said in a recent interview. "We are afraid of civil war. All the parties and groups in Iraq are armed and the Iraqi Army cannot manage to bring security to Iraq and stop the fighting among these parties."

In another statement posted Sunday, a Shiite militia controlled by Iran jeered calls for U.S. troops to stay. The group ridiculed a warning last week by Kurdish regional President Massoud Barzani that raised the specter of civil war if American forces leave Iraq. Kurds have long depended on U.S. troops to protect them, going back to Saddam Hussein's rule.

Muqtada al-Sadr, Iraqi Cleric, Tells Followers To Stop Attacking U.S. Troops

and this one reason why I had to ultimately found fault with the invasion ( aside form the rest), as they didn't take him way back when they could have and followed thru on the charges of his direct complicity in the murder of al-Khoei.

 

[freedombecki]

Muqtada al-Sadr, Iraqi Cleric, Tells Followers To Stop Attacking U.S. Troops

BAGHDAD — An anti-American cleric is urging his followers to stop attacking U.S. troops in Iraq so that their withdrawal from the country isn't slowed down, a call meant to ramp up pressure on Baghdad's political leaders who are considering asking some American forces to stay.

In a statement posted on his website, Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr told his militias to halt attacks against U.S. forces till the withdrawal is finished at the end of the year as required under a security agreement between Washington and Baghdad.

"Out of my desire to complete Iraq's independence and to finish the withdrawal of the occupation forces from our holy lands, I am obliged to halt military operations of the honest Iraqi resistance until the withdrawal of the occupation forces is complete," al-Sadr said in the statement, posted late Saturday. Sadrist lawmaker Mushraq Naji confirmed the statement on Sunday.

However, al-Sadr warned that "if the withdrawal doesn't happen ... the military operations will be resumed in a new and tougher way."

The statement followed last week's notice by U.S. officials in Baghdad, announcing the start of the withdrawal.

There are currently about 45,000 U.S. forces in Iraq.

However, U.S. and Iraqi leaders are currently weighing whether some American troops should remain past the Dec. 31 deadline as Baghdad continues to struggle with instability and burgeoning influence from neighboring Iran. Last month, Iraqi leaders began negotiating with U.S. officials in Baghdad to keep at least several thousand troops in Iraq to continue training the nation's shaky security forces.

Officials in Washington say President Barack Obama is willing to keep between 3,000 and 10,000 U.S. troops in Iraq. But with fewer than four months before the final deadline, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and parliament still have not indicated how many U.S. troops Iraq might need, how long they would stay, or exactly what they would be doing.

After more than eight years of war, many weary Iraqis are ready to see U.S. troops go, and staunchly defend their national sovereignty against an American force they see as occupiers. Al-Sadr's followers vehemently oppose a continued U.S. military presence in Iraq, and walked out of last month's meeting where political leaders decided to open the talks on having American troops stay.

"Our goal has been always to fight the occupiers because they are still in our country," Naji said Sunday.

Still, other Iraqi officials privately say they want American troops to continue training the nation's security forces for months, if not years, to come. The president of Iraq's northern Kurdish region this week pleaded for U.S. forces to stay to ward off threats of renewed sectarian violence.

Many Iraqis – both Sunnis and Shiites – share that fear.

"As for me, and the sheiks of Nasiriyah, we want the U.S. Army to stay," Sheik Manshad al-Ghezi of the southern Shiite city of Nasiriyah said in a recent interview. "We are afraid of civil war. All the parties and groups in Iraq are armed and the Iraqi Army cannot manage to bring security to Iraq and stop the fighting among these parties."

In another statement posted Sunday, a Shiite militia controlled by Iran jeered calls for U.S. troops to stay. The group ridiculed a warning last week by Kurdish regional President Massoud Barzani that raised the specter of civil war if American forces leave Iraq. Kurds have long depended on U.S. troops to protect them, going back to Saddam Hussein's rule.

Muqtada al-Sadr, Iraqi Cleric, Tells Followers To Stop Attacking U.S. Troops

and this one reason why I had to ultimately found fault with the invasion (aside form the rest), as they didn't take him way back when they could have and followed thru on the charges of his direct complicity in the murder of al-Khoei.

Thanks, Trahan, and since al Sadr is behind this and other suspected eliminations, it would be just another America-hating killer taking over from another America-hating killer, Saddam Hussein. Al-Sad'r's goal has always been to take over, and he has a trained militia to make it happen. It's too bad this administration has taken it upon itself to snatch a defeat from the troops' victory in Iraq.

 

[freedombecki]

My recollections back during Operation Enduring Freedom, seems alSadr's killings were considered exceptionally brutal for some reason. Maybe it was revenge for his father's and his grandfather's murders.

History of family brutal murders + more brutal murders = ​

 

[pgm]

Thanks, Trahan, and since al Sadr is behind this and other suspected eliminations, it would be just another America-hating killer taking over from another America-hating killer, Saddam Hussein. Al-Sad'r's goal has always been to take over, and he has a trained militia to make it happen. It's too bad this administration has taken it upon itself to snatch a defeat from the troops' victory in Iraq.

I don't think the Mahdi Army is strong enough to defeat the Iraqi Army. Back in 2008, the Iraqi army took over Sadr City without any involvement from the U.S. (it was Iraqi planned and executed). U.S. troops were involved earlier in a joint effort to control the southern third of Sadr City, but the final push was all Iraqi Army.

 

[High_Gravity]

Thanks, Trahan, and since al Sadr is behind this and other suspected eliminations, it would be just another America-hating killer taking over from another America-hating killer, Saddam Hussein. Al-Sad'r's goal has always been to take over, and he has a trained militia to make it happen. It's too bad this administration has taken it upon itself to snatch a defeat from the troops' victory in Iraq.

I don't think the Mahdi Army is strong enough to defeat the Iraqi Army. Back in 2008, the Iraqi army took over Sadr City without any involvement from the U.S. (it was Iraqi planned and executed). U.S. troops were involved earlier in a joint effort to control the southern third of Sadr City, but the final push was all Iraqi Army.

Sadr wants to make the Mahdi Army like Hezbollah, a well trained guerilla army that is the strongest force in the country, fortunately that is not the case in Iraq. The Mahdi Army are not as well trained, equipped or as good fighters as Hezbollah and like you say the Iraqi Army is better, but the Mahdi Army is good enough to create problems in the region especially if they are getting the support from Iran, which very well might be the case.

 

[High_Gravity]

Muqtada al-Sadr, Iraqi Cleric, Tells Followers To Stop Attacking U.S. Troops

BAGHDAD — An anti-American cleric is urging his followers to stop attacking U.S. troops in Iraq so that their withdrawal from the country isn't slowed down, a call meant to ramp up pressure on Baghdad's political leaders who are considering asking some American forces to stay.

In a statement posted on his website, Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr told his militias to halt attacks against U.S. forces till the withdrawal is finished at the end of the year as required under a security agreement between Washington and Baghdad.

"Out of my desire to complete Iraq's independence and to finish the withdrawal of the occupation forces from our holy lands, I am obliged to halt military operations of the honest Iraqi resistance until the withdrawal of the occupation forces is complete," al-Sadr said in the statement, posted late Saturday. Sadrist lawmaker Mushraq Naji confirmed the statement on Sunday.

However, al-Sadr warned that "if the withdrawal doesn't happen ... the military operations will be resumed in a new and tougher way."

The statement followed last week's notice by U.S. officials in Baghdad, announcing the start of the withdrawal.

There are currently about 45,000 U.S. forces in Iraq.

However, U.S. and Iraqi leaders are currently weighing whether some American troops should remain past the Dec. 31 deadline as Baghdad continues to struggle with instability and burgeoning influence from neighboring Iran. Last month, Iraqi leaders began negotiating with U.S. officials in Baghdad to keep at least several thousand troops in Iraq to continue training the nation's shaky security forces.

Officials in Washington say President Barack Obama is willing to keep between 3,000 and 10,000 U.S. troops in Iraq. But with fewer than four months before the final deadline, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and parliament still have not indicated how many U.S. troops Iraq might need, how long they would stay, or exactly what they would be doing.

After more than eight years of war, many weary Iraqis are ready to see U.S. troops go, and staunchly defend their national sovereignty against an American force they see as occupiers. Al-Sadr's followers vehemently oppose a continued U.S. military presence in Iraq, and walked out of last month's meeting where political leaders decided to open the talks on having American troops stay.

"Our goal has been always to fight the occupiers because they are still in our country," Naji said Sunday.

Still, other Iraqi officials privately say they want American troops to continue training the nation's security forces for months, if not years, to come. The president of Iraq's northern Kurdish region this week pleaded for U.S. forces to stay to ward off threats of renewed sectarian violence.

Many Iraqis – both Sunnis and Shiites – share that fear.

"As for me, and the sheiks of Nasiriyah, we want the U.S. Army to stay," Sheik Manshad al-Ghezi of the southern Shiite city of Nasiriyah said in a recent interview. "We are afraid of civil war. All the parties and groups in Iraq are armed and the Iraqi Army cannot manage to bring security to Iraq and stop the fighting among these parties."

In another statement posted Sunday, a Shiite militia controlled by Iran jeered calls for U.S. troops to stay. The group ridiculed a warning last week by Kurdish regional President Massoud Barzani that raised the specter of civil war if American forces leave Iraq. Kurds have long depended on U.S. troops to protect them, going back to Saddam Hussein's rule.

Muqtada al-Sadr, Iraqi Cleric, Tells Followers To Stop Attacking U.S. Troops

and this one reason why I had to ultimately found fault with the invasion ( aside form the rest), as they didn't take him way back when they could have and followed thru on the charges of his direct complicity in the murder of al-Khoei.

We should have followed through and arrested this clown way back when he had that other cleric murdered, back in 2003-2004 Sadr did not have nearly as much clout and influence that he does now, now its too late.

 

[High_Gravity]

Mr. Gravity, you seem to have a true heart in your observances over there. There's one thing that truly puzzles me. It's the attitude that people like Hussein had against the Kurds, and I've heard these people have also aroused the Ire of Turkey lately. Do you have a thread on the Kurds that explains their plight? Why do all their neighbors keep landing on them with threats of genocide and containment? I just don't get it, and I just don't get it some more. What's the root? Are they secret Jews, or something that causes their neighbors to whack away at them with all the ferocity they can get away with and still be part of the world community? I just don't get it.

The Kurds got screwed out of their own country when the borders were drawn up for the countries of Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria. Kurds are not Arabs, Turks or Persians, they are their own distinct culture, they are mainly Sunni Muslims but are mainly secular in nature, they don't really fit in with the Arabs, Persians and Turks and they are disliked and seen as a burden, which is why Saddam tried to kill them all and why the Turks have been trying to as well. In Turkey the Kurds were not even allowed to teach their own language in schools.The Kurds were protected by us with the no fly zone we set up in Northern Iraq after the first gulf war, so we have been kind of a big brother to them you could say, most Kurds like America and don't have any problems with us for the most part, you won't see Kurds burning American flags and carrying on like in other countries in the region.

The Kurds also have dealing with Israel, Israeli commandos have been to Kurdistan in Iraq to train the Pesh Merga, another reason for the Arabs, Iranians and Turks to despise them. The Kurds are in a rock in a hard place you could say, they really do need and deserve their own country because Iran, Syria, Iraq and Turkey really don't want them around but there is really no chance we could convince all these countries to give up land for them, the Kurds are a good people, Kurdistan is the only place in Iraq where no American troops have been hurt and Westerners can actually walk around without fear of being kidnapped or shot. I would love to see them have their own country but because of all the politics involved and there is really no way we can convince these countries to give up land for them, I don't really see anything changing in the future. Its a shame because they deserve better, they are one of the few groups of people in the region besides Israel who will have our backs.

Thanks, High Gravity. That makes it a lot clearer to me. Your description reminds me of the Kuwaitis, except the Kuwaitis have power due to their oil wealth. Before Saddam invaded Kuwait, I knew some students from Kuwait at Oregon State University. Of course, they were the only other people in the library when I was there (all the time ) They took their education in the United States very seriously, and they stayed together in a group. One day after the war was over, I saw one of the students on television (all grown up) who had worked his way up and was some kind of a minister of foreign relations, being spokesperson for the leadership in the country. When I knew him, he had his eye on the very beautiful girl who was always in the library working on whatever she was studying at the time. Of course, that was a long time ago, and I just wondered if he won her over or not. Maybe he did.

Anyway, I was upset the whole time Saddam was in Kuwait, and that's when I got really interested in Middle Eastern affairs. I really didn't know the kids all that well, but I admired how they looked out for one another, and was worried when I heard a couple of thousand Kuwaitis died. I've always thought of the Kuwaitis as friends. They are like what you described the Kurds as--liking the American people. I hope all those who visited at the library same time as me were ok. I grew fond of them, looked forward to seeing them; then was heartbroken when their country was invaded, wishing I hadn't been so busy and a little too shy to ask my quiet study friend for an address to send Christmas cards to. It's hard to be social when studying takes all your time. Their government paid for all Kuwaitis to be educated, and their literacy rate always used to be tops in the Middle East. I knew exactly why.

I was deployed to Kuwait during my time in the Military and I know what you are saying, a good portion of the Kuwaitis are fond of the US and don't have a problem with us, however there is also a segment of the Kuwaiti population that does NOT like the US. When the US invaded Iraq in 2003 the Mahdi Army was formed and they have set up offices in Kuwait amongst the Shite population there, they collect moneys from the Kuwaitis as charities to give to the Mahdi Army, and they spy on US Troops and the US bases in Kuwait. There are reports of Kuwaitis going to Iraq and Afghanistan as suicide bombers, it seems that Kuwait has the same problems just about every Arab country has these days with a portion of their population falling under the sway of Islamic Militants.

 

[GHook93]

The Kurds got screwed out of their own country when the borders were drawn up for the countries of Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria. Kurds are not Arabs, Turks or Persians, they are their own distinct culture, they are mainly Sunni Muslims but are mainly secular in nature, they don't really fit in with the Arabs, Persians and Turks and they are disliked and seen as a burden, which is why Saddam tried to kill them all and why the Turks have been trying to as well. In Turkey the Kurds were not even allowed to teach their own language in schools.The Kurds were protected by us with the no fly zone we set up in Northern Iraq after the first gulf war, so we have been kind of a big brother to them you could say, most Kurds like America and don't have any problems with us for the most part, you won't see Kurds burning American flags and carrying on like in other countries in the region.

The Kurds also have dealing with Israel, Israeli commandos have been to Kurdistan in Iraq to train the Pesh Merga, another reason for the Arabs, Iranians and Turks to despise them. The Kurds are in a rock in a hard place you could say, they really do need and deserve their own country because Iran, Syria, Iraq and Turkey really don't want them around but there is really no chance we could convince all these countries to give up land for them, the Kurds are a good people, Kurdistan is the only place in Iraq where no American troops have been hurt and Westerners can actually walk around without fear of being kidnapped or shot. I would love to see them have their own country but because of all the politics involved and there is really no way we can convince these countries to give up land for them, I don't really see anything changing in the future. Its a shame because they deserve better, they are one of the few groups of people in the region besides Israel who will have our backs.

Thanks, High Gravity. That makes it a lot clearer to me. Your description reminds me of the Kuwaitis, except the Kuwaitis have power due to their oil wealth. Before Saddam invaded Kuwait, I knew some students from Kuwait at Oregon State University. Of course, they were the only other people in the library when I was there (all the time ) They took their education in the United States very seriously, and they stayed together in a group. One day after the war was over, I saw one of the students on television (all grown up) who had worked his way up and was some kind of a minister of foreign relations, being spokesperson for the leadership in the country. When I knew him, he had his eye on the very beautiful girl who was always in the library working on whatever she was studying at the time. Of course, that was a long time ago, and I just wondered if he won her over or not. Maybe he did.

Anyway, I was upset the whole time Saddam was in Kuwait, and that's when I got really interested in Middle Eastern affairs. I really didn't know the kids all that well, but I admired how they looked out for one another, and was worried when I heard a couple of thousand Kuwaitis died. I've always thought of the Kuwaitis as friends. They are like what you described the Kurds as--liking the American people. I hope all those who visited at the library same time as me were ok. I grew fond of them, looked forward to seeing them; then was heartbroken when their country was invaded, wishing I hadn't been so busy and a little too shy to ask my quiet study friend for an address to send Christmas cards to. It's hard to be social when studying takes all your time. Their government paid for all Kuwaitis to be educated, and their literacy rate always used to be tops in the Middle East. I knew exactly why.

I was deployed to Kuwait during my time in the Military and I know what you are saying, a good portion of the Kuwaitis are fond of the US and don't have a problem with us, however there is also a segment of the Kuwaiti population that does NOT like the US. When the US invaded Iraq in 2003 the Mahdi Army was formed and they have set up offices in Kuwait amongst the Shite population there, they collect moneys from the Kuwaitis as charities to give to the Mahdi Army, and they spy on US Troops and the US bases in Kuwait. There are reports of Kuwaitis going to Iraq and Afghanistan as suicide bombers, it seems that Kuwait has the same problems just about every Arab country has these days with a portion of their population falling under the sway of Islamic Militants.

Kuwait is very much like Kosovo. He went to war to prevent Sadam from killing the entire Kuwaiti population and now they fund terrorism, help the terrorist in Iraq and are ANTIAMERICAN!

The we prevent the Serbs taking back their land in favor of the Muslims of the Ficticious Country of Kosovo. What do we have now. A mafesto run government. A hotbed of Islamic terrorist, antiamericanism and antiwesternism. The Russian were right on Kosovo. Now we created yet another Muslim country that the world needs to worry about!

 

[High_Gravity]

Thanks, High Gravity. That makes it a lot clearer to me. Your description reminds me of the Kuwaitis, except the Kuwaitis have power due to their oil wealth. Before Saddam invaded Kuwait, I knew some students from Kuwait at Oregon State University. Of course, they were the only other people in the library when I was there (all the time ) They took their education in the United States very seriously, and they stayed together in a group. One day after the war was over, I saw one of the students on television (all grown up) who had worked his way up and was some kind of a minister of foreign relations, being spokesperson for the leadership in the country. When I knew him, he had his eye on the very beautiful girl who was always in the library working on whatever she was studying at the time. Of course, that was a long time ago, and I just wondered if he won her over or not. Maybe he did.

Anyway, I was upset the whole time Saddam was in Kuwait, and that's when I got really interested in Middle Eastern affairs. I really didn't know the kids all that well, but I admired how they looked out for one another, and was worried when I heard a couple of thousand Kuwaitis died. I've always thought of the Kuwaitis as friends. They are like what you described the Kurds as--liking the American people. I hope all those who visited at the library same time as me were ok. I grew fond of them, looked forward to seeing them; then was heartbroken when their country was invaded, wishing I hadn't been so busy and a little too shy to ask my quiet study friend for an address to send Christmas cards to. It's hard to be social when studying takes all your time. Their government paid for all Kuwaitis to be educated, and their literacy rate always used to be tops in the Middle East. I knew exactly why.

I was deployed to Kuwait during my time in the Military and I know what you are saying, a good portion of the Kuwaitis are fond of the US and don't have a problem with us, however there is also a segment of the Kuwaiti population that does NOT like the US. When the US invaded Iraq in 2003 the Mahdi Army was formed and they have set up offices in Kuwait amongst the Shite population there, they collect moneys from the Kuwaitis as charities to give to the Mahdi Army, and they spy on US Troops and the US bases in Kuwait. There are reports of Kuwaitis going to Iraq and Afghanistan as suicide bombers, it seems that Kuwait has the same problems just about every Arab country has these days with a portion of their population falling under the sway of Islamic Militants.

Kuwait is very much like Kosovo. He went to war to prevent Sadam from killing the entire Kuwaiti population and now they fund terrorism, help the terrorist in Iraq and are ANTIAMERICAN!

The we prevent the Serbs taking back their land in favor of the Muslims of the Ficticious Country of Kosovo. What do we have now. A mafesto run government. A hotbed of Islamic terrorist, antiamericanism and antiwesternism. The Russian were right on Kosovo. Now we created yet another Muslim country that the world needs to worry about!

Everytime we deploy our Military to fight on the behalf of Muslims, we step on our dicks.