MTP: Climate Change Discussion - no Deniers

[flacaltenn]

'Actually skeptics criticize any group that makes claims that aren't supported by observed, measured evidence..

I believe you may be confusing cynics, and misanthropes with skeptics. Would you keep an open mind and consider that a possibility?

I have followed what some call professional skeptics, and few if any argue against the scientific community's consensus on the climate science data

You don't really grasp the science or the history of this science, and you're not understanding what consensus means as to accepting scientific theories, so maybe you should just KEEP whatever preconceived fallacies you have about a DOOMED PLANET to yourself..

 

[JBvM]

Are you aware that the consensus has been wrong so often...

Did anyone tell the scientific community? This is huge news

Where is there any evidence that anybody is caring about the scientific community?

Provide links please!

You're like the meathead who spikes the football after a touchdown making the score 54-6 not in your favor.

Ghey

The next time an Ebola scare or some other scare of a deadly infectious disease is in the news -- please, ignore the scientific community - that type of thinking just helps help nature thin the herd.

is that what you are advocating?

 

[JBvM]

always attacking any international group - it's a sure trigger with you people

I know you criticize NASA. They sent a man to the man and brought him back (multiple times).

I'll side with NASA scientists over you - even if the rumors are true that you were in line for an appointment to a committee of the Trump Admin: Committee to Keep Americans Safe from Science

No, you stupid chump.

He's pointing out that your post is bullshit.

Just try complaining about what your org has posted as a "position" and find out how long you last.

Well thank you for a serious insult and personal attack - name calling. It helps make my case

 

[JBvM]

You just appealed to NASA.

Hypocrite.

And they won't even back you.

It's not a debating pint. We always appeal .. as you try and twist it, when we present evidence.

NASA is more credible than 1500 of your type

 

[JBvM]

Climate science has a great deal of data...very little of it amounts to anything other than evidence that there is a very wide margin in natural variability..

and you only tell half the story here. The 'very wide margin in natural variability' does not equal there is no man made contribution that has spiked the levels

I side with the experts over an anonymous keyboard warrior on the www

thank you

 

[skookerasbil]

Are you aware that the consensus has been wrong so often...

Did anyone tell the scientific community? This is huge news

Where is there any evidence that anybody is caring about the scientific community?

Provide links please!

You're like the meathead who spikes the football after a touchdown making the score 54-6 not in your favor.

Ghey

The next time an Ebola scare or some other scare of a deadly infectious disease is in the news -- please, ignore the scientific community - that type of thinking just helps help nature thin the herd.

is that what you are advocating?

lInKfAiL s0n

 

[SSDD]

Are you aware that the consensus has been wrong so often...

Did anyone tell the scientific community? This is huge news

Only news to someone who has no inkling of the history of science...it is easy to find undeniable evidence that the scientific consensus has been wrong on most topics...but lets look at some very recent developments in which the scientific consensus was very wrong...they had mountains of data, but very little actual evidence to support their beliefs...they misinterpreted the data and achieved consensus, which happened to be quite wrong... Examples:

Cholesterol - the entire scientific community was pretty sure that cholesterol caused heart disease...they recommended drugs...recommended diets...wrote papers, taught medical students, gave lectures and seminars on the "fact" that cholesterol caused heart disease...several major studies had indicated otherwise, but the consensus was sure that they were right.....Turns out that a study that was the largest of its kind ever done finally convinced the consensus that they had misinterpreted the data...there is no link between cholesterol and heart disease...a study spanning decades found that there is no statical difference in the numbers of people who die of heart disease who have "good" cholesterol numbers and the number of people who have "bad" cholesterol numbers...

Other topics in which the modern consensus has been dead wrong range from stress not being the cause of stomach ulcers, to salt not causing high blood pressure, to natural fats being bad for you but hydrogenated fats being good for you and on and on and on and on...pick any scientific topic...research it back a bit and you will find that the consensus was at one time or another quite wrong..

Like I said, if you take the opposite side of a topic in which there is consensus, even if you don't have any knowledge on the topic, the odds are stacked heavily in your favor that you will be on the right side of the argument...the consensus has been wrong that often. The fact that you didn't know this goes to your "faith" and "belief" in "experts" and having no informed opinion of your own.

This one really cracked me up.

It was brought up in a book entitled "Toxic Terror"...but I was aware of the load of crap it was long before the book.

Another example of science turned to crapp.

Same here...my doc tried for years to get me to start statin drugs for my cholesterol..I asked him for evidence to support his belief that it was going to cause heart disease....about a year ago he finally admitted that he had been bamboozled by the data which was not evidence...

 

[SSDD]

Are you aware that the consensus has been wrong so often...

Did anyone tell the scientific community? This is huge news

Where is there any evidence that anybody is caring about the scientific community?

Provide links please!

You're like the meathead who spikes the football after a touchdown making the score 54-6 not in your favor.

Ghey

The next time an Ebola scare or some other scare of a deadly infectious disease is in the news -- please, ignore the scientific community - that type of thinking just helps help nature thin the herd.

is that what you are advocating?

There is evidence to support the dangers of an ebola threat...again, you don't seem to grasp the difference between what data is and what evidence is...climate science has a great deal of data...very little evidence...there is a good deal of data on ebola and nearly all of it is evidence of the danger... This isn't that difficult and even someone who believes the science is out of his intellectual reach can get this stuff.

 

[SSDD]

You just appealed to NASA.

Hypocrite.

And they won't even back you.

It's not a debating pint. We always appeal .. as you try and twist it, when we present evidence.

That's the thing..you don't present evidence..you present data..and when we ask exactly what that data is supposed to support, rather than say nothing in particular...you hang an assumption about what it means and call it evidence..

NASA has been caught cooking the books and fabricating data...how much credibility would you give a bank caught doing the same thing?

 

[SSDD]

and you only tell half the story here. The 'very wide margin in natural variability' does not equal there is no man made contribution that has spiked the levels

And it doesn't mean that there is manmade climate anything...it means that if there is some manmade climate change, it is indistinguishable from natural variability...so how do you get a crisis out of that?

I side with the experts over an anonymous keyboard warrior on the www

I really don't care whether you believe me or not...the most I could hope for is that you would actually try using your own brain and do some actual digging into the literature...and learn the difference between evidence and data rather than simply being a repository for someone else's opinion.

 

[danielpalos]

Climate change happens; we need new Cities in more optimum locations.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

I know you criticize NASA. They sent a man to the man and brought him back (multiple times).

You don't know jack shit about what I criticize... Always supported the space program to some extent. We're talking about a small cadre of people holed up in the "GISS" NASA office headed by political APPOINTEES who are RABID enviro-nauts. Like James Hansen.. The activist in a labcoat that gave CBS news the "excuse and cover" to show a graphic with our oceans BOILING and the graphic 212 degrees on top of it..
+IN FACT, I'm in GREAT company poking at them, since there was a letter signed about 1998 by over 20 top NASA former scientists and astronauts SIMILARLY criticizing their campaign of FEAR and purposely distorting the science of Global Warming.. Those folks you admire for GETTING us to the moon and back.
Kinda arrogant about attacking me when there's so much you DON'T know..

It's what they have to do when they perceive someone has a serious threat to their fairy tale.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

[

What precisely is the ideal temperature for life on planet earth? If you can't answer that, then you have no idea whether it is a big deal or not...we do know that most of the past 10,000 years, has been warmer than the present...and we know that civilization rose during a warmer time than the present.

There are lots of things I don't know much about, but that I trust the experts on. I do due diligence. I look into an expert's credentials and experience/work. As I've been saying on this message board -- I trust NASA over people like you because NASA sent men to the moon and brought them back. The experts at NASA had to form a consensus on how they believed the science could be used, but they could never be 100% certain.

You appear to set up straw men and unrealistic goals. It does appear that way. I would love to see you give a lecture to a crowd of scientists trained in specialized fields that deal with the temperatures of planets and more. I believe you would flop around like a fish out of water. And that is not to denigrate your attempts at portraying what little you know as being expertise.

Haven't they lost two shuttles ?

One of which was the direct result of putting profit over science.

But that NEVER happens.

 

[skookerasbil]

Climate change happens; we need new Cities in more optimum locations.

s0n....nobody ever even knows wtf you are saying!!

 

[danielpalos]

Climate change happens; we need new Cities in more optimum locations.

s0n....nobody ever even knows wtf you are saying!!

not dumb enough for the right wing?

 

[JBvM]

There is evidence to support the dangers of an ebola threat...

says who?

are you appealing to authority?

how can you be sure, did you go out and test any evidence?

 

[mamooth]

We're talking about a small cadre of people holed up in the "GISS" NASA office headed by political APPOINTEES who are RABID enviro-nauts.

Scientologists, flat earthers, antivaxxers and creationists also invoke TheGreatConspiracyoftheElites. It's standard cultist behavior.

This is why it's so good to be part of the reality-based community. We never have to retreat behind bizarre conspiracy theories. If reality disagrees with our politics, we change our politics to match reality. To win, we merely have to point at reality.

Like James Hansen.. The activist in a labcoat that gave CBS news the "excuse and cover" to show a graphic with our oceans BOILING and the graphic 212 degrees on top of it.

We talk about the data, because we can. You attack people, because you can't talk about the data.

+IN FACT, I'm in GREAT company poking at them, since there was a letter signed about 1998 by over 20 top NASA former scientists and astronauts SIMILARLY criticizing their campaign of FEAR and purposely distorting the science of Global Warming.. Those folks you admire for GETTING us to the moon and back.
Kinda arrogant about attacking me when there's so much you DON'T know..

So exactly when did you abandon rationality in favor of cult-induced paranoia?

 

[skookerasbil]

We're talking about a small cadre of people holed up in the "GISS" NASA office headed by political APPOINTEES who are RABID enviro-nauts.

Scientologists, flat earthers, antivaxxers and creationists also invoke TheGreatConspiracyoftheElites. It's standard cultist behavior.

This is why it's so good to be part of the reality-based community. We never have to retreat behind bizarre conspiracy theories. If reality disagrees with our politics, we change our politics to match reality. To win, we merely have to point at reality.

Like James Hansen.. The activist in a labcoat that gave CBS news the "excuse and cover" to show a graphic with our oceans BOILING and the graphic 212 degrees on top of it.

We talk about the data, because we can. You attack people, because you can't talk about the data.

+IN FACT, I'm in GREAT company poking at them, since there was a letter signed about 1998 by over 20 top NASA former scientists and astronauts SIMILARLY criticizing their campaign of FEAR and purposely distorting the science of Global Warming.. Those folks you admire for GETTING us to the moon and back.
Kinda arrogant about attacking me when there's so much you DON'T know..

So exactly when did you abandon rationality in favor of cult-induced paranoia?

"Change around the politics to match the reality?"

And how's that goin' for the past 20 years s0n?





>> they need a spike the football emoticon imo <<


Mamooth likes being a pumpkin on a tee......

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

t's what they have to do when they perceive someone has a serious threat to their fairy tale

Bwahahaha....as if you bunch of uneducated slobs weeping on the internet is a serious threat or challenge to any scientific theory....

 

[Crick]

I know you criticize NASA. They sent a man to the man and brought him back (multiple times).

You don't know jack shit about what I criticize... Always supported the space program to some extent. We're talking about a small cadre of people holed up in the "GISS" NASA office headed by political APPOINTEES who are RABID enviro-nauts. Like James Hansen.. The activist in a labcoat that gave CBS news the "excuse and cover" to show a graphic with our oceans BOILING and the graphic 212 degrees on top of it..
+IN FACT, I'm in GREAT company poking at them, since there was a letter signed about 1998 by over 20 top NASA former scientists and astronauts SIMILARLY criticizing their campaign of FEAR and purposely distorting the science of Global Warming.. Those folks you admire for GETTING us to the moon and back.
Kinda arrogant about attacking me when there's so much you DON'T know..

James Hansen was NOT a political appointee. From his Wikipedia article:

Early life and education
Hansen was born in Denison, Iowa, to James Ivan Hansen and Gladys Ray Hansen.[9] He was trained in physics and astronomy in the space science program of James Van Allen at the University of Iowa. He obtained a B.A. in Physics and Mathematics with highest distinction in 1963, an M.S. in Astronomy in 1965 and a Ph.D. in Physics in 1967, all three degrees from the University of Iowa. He participated in the NASA graduate traineeship from 1962 to 1966 and, at the same time, between 1965 and 1966, he was a visiting student at the Institute of Astrophysics at the University of Kyoto and in the Department of Astronomy at the University of Tokyo. He then began work at the Goddard Institute for Space Studies in 1967.[10]

Career
After graduate school, Hansen continued his work with radiative transfer models, attempting to understand the Venusian atmosphere. He later applied and refined these models to understand the Earth's atmosphere, and in particular, the effects that aerosols and trace gases have on Earth's climate. His development and use of global climate models has contributed to the further understanding of the Earth's climate. In 2009 his first book, Storms of My Grandchildren, was published.[11] In 2012 he presented the TED Talk "Why I must speak out about climate change".[12]

From 1981 to 2013, he was the director of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York City, a part of the Goddard Space Flight Center.

As of 2014, Hansen directs the Program on Climate Science, Awareness and Solutions at Columbia University's Earth Institute.[13] The program is working to continue to "connect the dots" from advancing basic climate science to promoting public awareness to advocating policy actions.

Hansen is representing his granddaughter as well as "future generations" as plaintiffs in the Juliana v. United States lawsuit, which is suing the United States government and some of its executive branch's positions for not protecting a stable climate system.