MSM a traitor by booing the USA trying to balance $375B/yr deficit, while China OWES USA $750B?

[Toro]

WAR! Definition: War is a state of armed conflict between states, societies and informal groups, such as insurgents and militias. It is generally characterized by extreme aggression, destruction, and mortality, using regular or irregular military forces.

Trade War: a situation in which countries try to damage each other's trade, typically by the imposition of tariffs or quota restrictions.

In the case of WAR... generally two sides or more involved. Conflict between states. Them against us.

In the case of WAR: What do you call someone on YOUR side (either side...doesn't make a difference...) who says
1) YOUR side is wrong.
2) The other side is right.
3) and does things to help the other side?

Traitor: a person who betrays a friend, country, principle, etc.

So what do you call the MSM that overwhelmingly favors the other side.
That writes articles defending the OTHER side and attacking OUR side?

During WWII there were a few cases of people in the USA that was for the enemies of the USA... BUT not the MSM.
Not the newspapers.
Yet today these same MSM are putting out EVERY article in opposition to President Trump who is trying to balance in the case of China nearly in 2017, the U.S. posted a $375.6 billion deficit in goods with China. Most glaring is the huge deficit in computers and electronics, but the U.S. is a net importer from China in most market segments except for agriculture. The U.S. is excluding Chinese-made cellphones and televisions from its tariffs.
Why the U.S.-China trade deficit is so huge: Here’s all the stuff America imports

NOW in the case of a physical conflict the continual support of the enemy and the bashing of the USA would be considered treason because it would lead to the enemy killing more of us and maybe defeating the USA.
So why would we Americans support people who wanted the enemy to succeed and eventually hurt us, ME?

What is the difference between the Trade War and an armed conflict? True no bombs, no physical damage...BUT
economically both sides will take a hit... in a trade war.

During WWII there was a thing called "rationing"!
In the spring of 1942, the Food Rationing Program was set into motion. Rationing would deeply affect the American way of life for most. The federal government needed to control supply and demand. Rationing was introduced to avoid public anger with shortages and not to allow only the wealthy to purchase commodities.
https://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1674.html

So folks... what is wrong with Americans paying more due to the tariffs imposed on Chinese imports? Or on shortages due to Chinese imports not coming in?
"Rationing" for the better cause... i.e. the balance of trade which right now China makes up this $376 billion deficit by supposedly buying US TREASURIES!

YET... China OWES the USA and citizens $750 BILLION!
Under international law as it has been understood for centuries, successor governments, no matter the circumstances of the establishment of a new government, whether by revolution or civil war, must pay the sovereign debt incurred by its predecessor. But currently, the People’s Republic of China owes a debt of over $750 billion to American citizens who are holding these full faith and credit sovereign bonds (many of them denominated in gold) sold to them by the Republic of China. Worldwide, the debt China owes to all bondholders is estimated to be several trillion dollars. The debt owed to the American people should be paid. The U.S. government could dollar for dollar offset bond interest we owe China with interest, principal and penalties China owes us. It's Time for China to Pay Its Debts to the United States


So folks WHY does the MSM support China... our enemy who owes us $750 billion in the first place, and who HAS now reduced their buying of US treasuries?

Pure stupidity on their part! AGAIN traitors are people that cheer for the other side while tearing down the home team and booing the home team! What is the MSM doing?
Look at these headlines!
View attachment 203611

awesome

 

[healthmyths]

See above and below...

he story begins nearly 100 years ago, in 1913, when the government of China began issuing bonds to foreign investors and governments for infrastructure work to modernize the country. As the country fell into civil war in 1927, paying these debts became increasingly difficult and the government fell into default. Even so, in April 1938, the Nationalist government of China began to issue U.S.-dollar denominated bonds to finance the
war against Japan's brutal invasion
Locked in a pitched battle for survival, the government issued these bonds into 1940. As part of its wartime financial aid, the U.S. government further provided a $500 million credit to China in March 1942, shipping gold there and helping to stabilize the currency. In return, it appears that the U.S. government redeemed some of these dollar-denominated bonds. But China doesn't appear to have repaid this debt either, according to State Department records, and the declaration of the People's Republic of China in 1949 ended decades of political, military and financial cooperation.

While successor governments are usually bound by the debts of predecessor governments, the new Communist government refused to pay any of these claims. The issue lay dormant for decades, just as the bilateral relationship did. Then, in 1979, as part of normalizing relations, Washington released government financial claims regarding the expropriation of American property and appears to have dropped the matter of the war debt entirely. However, it is one thing for government decision-makers to let go of government debt, however questionable that is.

Today, the Chinese bonds held by U.S. investors may be worth as much as $750 billion, according to Jonna Bianco, president of the American Bondholders Foundation, who estimates the value of bonds held by investors worldwide may be $10 trillion, including interest and penalties for default.

China's secret? It owes Americans nearly $1 trillion

So no real evidence for the $750 billion figure?

So far given two distinct sources now for a definitive source:

To help you out since YOU evidently can't follow the links..

From 1900 to 1940, the Chinese Government issued millions of dollars in sovereign debt, most notably, a large tranche of £25,000,000 issued at 5% in 1913 set to mature in 1960. This massive bond funded the modernization of China's infrastructure and was widely acquired at the time by governments, banks, and investors across the globe. However, in 1938 China defaulted on its "binding engagement upon the Government of the Republic of China and its Successors," leaving millions of global creditors unpaid. In accordance with the terms of the bond, successor government doctrine, and accounting standards, the United States can and should hold China accountable to its obligations.

WHO HOLDS THE BONDS:
The Chinese bonds in question are held throughout the world by treasuries, banks, companies, and over 20,000 private U.S. investors, many of which are active in seeking remuneration. Critically, the U.S. Treasury and Departments of Justice and State are understood to hold substantial portions of this Chinese sovereign debt. These holdings have not been fully cataloged nor has the U.S. Government moved to hold China accountable for its debt obligations.

American Bond Holders Foundation

Now I'm going to HELP you even further as simple math must be hard for you also..

£25,000,000 was worth in 1913 equal to in 2018 £2,801,713,928 or in US dollars $3,707,423,989
Now remember $3,707,423,989 (value of £25,000,000 in 1913) at 5% interest for 115 years (1913 -2018) worth $1,009,834,339,615.

So far given two distinct sources now for a definitive source:

Wow, two "conspiracy" type sources. Very useful.

From 1900 to 1940, the Chinese Government issued millions of dollars in sovereign debt, most notably, a large tranche of £25,000,000 issued at 5% in 1913 set to mature in 1960.

Interesting. But the claim we're looking at is bonds denominated in dollars sold to Americans.

£25,000,000 was worth in 1913 equal to in 2018 £2,801,713,928

Show your work. Keep it simple. Because that's what you're good at.

Well just like the MSM... you left out the important aspect which is why the MSM is called "fake news..." about the ...
£25,000,000 was worth in 1913 equal to in 2018 £2,801,713,928 or in US dollars $3,707,423,989
Now remember $3,707,423,989 (value of £25,000,000 in 1913) at 5% interest for 115 years (1913 -2018) worth $1,009,834,339,615.

You didn't seem to account for the 5% interest rate from 1913 to 2018 which adds up to $1,009,834,339,615... that $1.009 TRILLION.

£25,000,000 was worth in 1913 equal to in 2018 £2,801,713,928

Prove this claim.

You know what I don't have to. I'll give you the link and you do it! 1913 pounds in 2016 | UK Inflation Calculator

 

[Toro]

WAR! Definition: War is a state of armed conflict between states, societies and informal groups, such as insurgents and militias. It is generally characterized by extreme aggression, destruction, and mortality, using regular or irregular military forces.

Trade War: a situation in which countries try to damage each other's trade, typically by the imposition of tariffs or quota restrictions.

In the case of WAR... generally two sides or more involved. Conflict between states. Them against us.

In the case of WAR: What do you call someone on YOUR side (either side...doesn't make a difference...) who says
1) YOUR side is wrong.
2) The other side is right.
3) and does things to help the other side?

Traitor: a person who betrays a friend, country, principle, etc.

So what do you call the MSM that overwhelmingly favors the other side.
That writes articles defending the OTHER side and attacking OUR side?

During WWII there were a few cases of people in the USA that was for the enemies of the USA... BUT not the MSM.
Not the newspapers.
Yet today these same MSM are putting out EVERY article in opposition to President Trump who is trying to balance in the case of China nearly in 2017, the U.S. posted a $375.6 billion deficit in goods with China. Most glaring is the huge deficit in computers and electronics, but the U.S. is a net importer from China in most market segments except for agriculture. The U.S. is excluding Chinese-made cellphones and televisions from its tariffs.
Why the U.S.-China trade deficit is so huge: Here’s all the stuff America imports

NOW in the case of a physical conflict the continual support of the enemy and the bashing of the USA would be considered treason because it would lead to the enemy killing more of us and maybe defeating the USA.
So why would we Americans support people who wanted the enemy to succeed and eventually hurt us, ME?

What is the difference between the Trade War and an armed conflict? True no bombs, no physical damage...BUT
economically both sides will take a hit... in a trade war.

During WWII there was a thing called "rationing"!
In the spring of 1942, the Food Rationing Program was set into motion. Rationing would deeply affect the American way of life for most. The federal government needed to control supply and demand. Rationing was introduced to avoid public anger with shortages and not to allow only the wealthy to purchase commodities.
https://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1674.html

So folks... what is wrong with Americans paying more due to the tariffs imposed on Chinese imports? Or on shortages due to Chinese imports not coming in?
"Rationing" for the better cause... i.e. the balance of trade which right now China makes up this $376 billion deficit by supposedly buying US TREASURIES!

YET... China OWES the USA and citizens $750 BILLION!
Under international law as it has been understood for centuries, successor governments, no matter the circumstances of the establishment of a new government, whether by revolution or civil war, must pay the sovereign debt incurred by its predecessor. But currently, the People’s Republic of China owes a debt of over $750 billion to American citizens who are holding these full faith and credit sovereign bonds (many of them denominated in gold) sold to them by the Republic of China. Worldwide, the debt China owes to all bondholders is estimated to be several trillion dollars. The debt owed to the American people should be paid. The U.S. government could dollar for dollar offset bond interest we owe China with interest, principal and penalties China owes us. It's Time for China to Pay Its Debts to the United States


So folks WHY does the MSM support China... our enemy who owes us $750 billion in the first place, and who HAS now reduced their buying of US treasuries?

Pure stupidity on their part! AGAIN traitors are people that cheer for the other side while tearing down the home team and booing the home team! What is the MSM doing?
Look at these headlines!
View attachment 203611

Now Trumpbots are calling people who exercise their 'Freedom of the Press' and/or 'Free Speech'...traitorous?!?



So...is the U.S. Chamber of Commerce full of 'traitors' as well for STRONGLY disagreeing with Trump's 'tariffs'?

Tariffs are the Wrong Approach | U.S. Chamber of Commerce

Yes or no?

Of course they are! Idiots all that evidently NEVER negotiated shit!
You certainly can't tell the opponent... You guys are right our guys are wrong!"
Why would they do that? Because they like most of you BELIEVE the MSM! This is the point of my thread!
The MSM hates Trump so much they are pumping information that is harmful to the USA and negotiations to improve trade balance.
For example... were you aware that China just because of the threat of tariffs lowered their tariffs by 10% on US cars being imported into China? Why? it's called negotiating!

So yes the Chamber is being totally supportive of the other side. Come on this is America and we should want to do what is best for America and many of these
deals were never in the best interest of America!

You can help America by not being a shrill and economic retard.

FFS, I pine for the days when it was only the left who demonstrated such unbridled ignorance of economics.

 

[healthmyths]

Those damn farmers are .... disloyal. LOL

Well they are if they BELIEVE the MSM output! The farmers that don't see the big picture as I pointed out in the first post that during war being real or trade people have to sacrifice.
Rationing was a sacrifice Americans suffered in WWII to help win the war. So farmers should work their butts off to counter whatever POTENTIAL negative comes from the tariffs.
This is not a short term issue but has to clean up decades of ass kissing bowing and scraping to trading partners while the USA gets scammed.

 

[Toro]

Tariffs are taxes.

Raising taxes does not help the economy.

Raising taxes such as tariffs redistributes income but they are a burden on the economy, as left-wing policies usually are.

 

[healthmyths]

WAR! Definition: War is a state of armed conflict between states, societies and informal groups, such as insurgents and militias. It is generally characterized by extreme aggression, destruction, and mortality, using regular or irregular military forces.

Trade War: a situation in which countries try to damage each other's trade, typically by the imposition of tariffs or quota restrictions.

In the case of WAR... generally two sides or more involved. Conflict between states. Them against us.

In the case of WAR: What do you call someone on YOUR side (either side...doesn't make a difference...) who says
1) YOUR side is wrong.
2) The other side is right.
3) and does things to help the other side?

Traitor: a person who betrays a friend, country, principle, etc.

So what do you call the MSM that overwhelmingly favors the other side.
That writes articles defending the OTHER side and attacking OUR side?

During WWII there were a few cases of people in the USA that was for the enemies of the USA... BUT not the MSM.
Not the newspapers.
Yet today these same MSM are putting out EVERY article in opposition to President Trump who is trying to balance in the case of China nearly in 2017, the U.S. posted a $375.6 billion deficit in goods with China. Most glaring is the huge deficit in computers and electronics, but the U.S. is a net importer from China in most market segments except for agriculture. The U.S. is excluding Chinese-made cellphones and televisions from its tariffs.
Why the U.S.-China trade deficit is so huge: Here’s all the stuff America imports

NOW in the case of a physical conflict the continual support of the enemy and the bashing of the USA would be considered treason because it would lead to the enemy killing more of us and maybe defeating the USA.
So why would we Americans support people who wanted the enemy to succeed and eventually hurt us, ME?

What is the difference between the Trade War and an armed conflict? True no bombs, no physical damage...BUT
economically both sides will take a hit... in a trade war.

During WWII there was a thing called "rationing"!
In the spring of 1942, the Food Rationing Program was set into motion. Rationing would deeply affect the American way of life for most. The federal government needed to control supply and demand. Rationing was introduced to avoid public anger with shortages and not to allow only the wealthy to purchase commodities.
https://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1674.html

So folks... what is wrong with Americans paying more due to the tariffs imposed on Chinese imports? Or on shortages due to Chinese imports not coming in?
"Rationing" for the better cause... i.e. the balance of trade which right now China makes up this $376 billion deficit by supposedly buying US TREASURIES!

YET... China OWES the USA and citizens $750 BILLION!
Under international law as it has been understood for centuries, successor governments, no matter the circumstances of the establishment of a new government, whether by revolution or civil war, must pay the sovereign debt incurred by its predecessor. But currently, the People’s Republic of China owes a debt of over $750 billion to American citizens who are holding these full faith and credit sovereign bonds (many of them denominated in gold) sold to them by the Republic of China. Worldwide, the debt China owes to all bondholders is estimated to be several trillion dollars. The debt owed to the American people should be paid. The U.S. government could dollar for dollar offset bond interest we owe China with interest, principal and penalties China owes us. It's Time for China to Pay Its Debts to the United States


So folks WHY does the MSM support China... our enemy who owes us $750 billion in the first place, and who HAS now reduced their buying of US treasuries?

Pure stupidity on their part! AGAIN traitors are people that cheer for the other side while tearing down the home team and booing the home team! What is the MSM doing?
Look at these headlines!
View attachment 203611

Now Trumpbots are calling people who exercise their 'Freedom of the Press' and/or 'Free Speech'...traitorous?!?



So...is the U.S. Chamber of Commerce full of 'traitors' as well for STRONGLY disagreeing with Trump's 'tariffs'?

Tariffs are the Wrong Approach | U.S. Chamber of Commerce

Yes or no?

Of course they are! Idiots all that evidently NEVER negotiated shit!
You certainly can't tell the opponent... You guys are right our guys are wrong!"
Why would they do that? Because they like most of you BELIEVE the MSM! This is the point of my thread!
The MSM hates Trump so much they are pumping information that is harmful to the USA and negotiations to improve trade balance.
For example... were you aware that China just because of the threat of tariffs lowered their tariffs by 10% on US cars being imported into China? Why? it's called negotiating!

So yes the Chamber is being totally supportive of the other side. Come on this is America and we should want to do what is best for America and many of these
deals were never in the best interest of America!

You can help America by not being a shrill and economic retard.

FFS, I pine for the days when it was only the left who demonstrated such unbridled ignorance of economics.

So it's OK for people like Farmers, Chamber of Commerce ALL self centered, looking out for their own self interest to put the rest of America at risk?
This is not a "TRADE WAR" which is a fabrication of the MSM.
What it is very simple is renegotiation of bad deals. Most of the re-negotiated deals will be in our favor. A few won't! That's a given in overall negotiations.
BUT this bull crap put out by the MSM that Trump is going to destroy the economy because of this is simply a tool in their hatred of Trump who is pointing out
to people that the MSM can't be believed any more!
Tell me these people are unhappy and concerned! The below is just moments ago.

 

[McRocket]

WAR! Definition: War is a state of armed conflict between states, societies and informal groups, such as insurgents and militias. It is generally characterized by extreme aggression, destruction, and mortality, using regular or irregular military forces.

Trade War: a situation in which countries try to damage each other's trade, typically by the imposition of tariffs or quota restrictions.

In the case of WAR... generally two sides or more involved. Conflict between states. Them against us.

In the case of WAR: What do you call someone on YOUR side (either side...doesn't make a difference...) who says
1) YOUR side is wrong.
2) The other side is right.
3) and does things to help the other side?

Traitor: a person who betrays a friend, country, principle, etc.

So what do you call the MSM that overwhelmingly favors the other side.
That writes articles defending the OTHER side and attacking OUR side?

During WWII there were a few cases of people in the USA that was for the enemies of the USA... BUT not the MSM.
Not the newspapers.
Yet today these same MSM are putting out EVERY article in opposition to President Trump who is trying to balance in the case of China nearly in 2017, the U.S. posted a $375.6 billion deficit in goods with China. Most glaring is the huge deficit in computers and electronics, but the U.S. is a net importer from China in most market segments except for agriculture. The U.S. is excluding Chinese-made cellphones and televisions from its tariffs.
Why the U.S.-China trade deficit is so huge: Here’s all the stuff America imports

NOW in the case of a physical conflict the continual support of the enemy and the bashing of the USA would be considered treason because it would lead to the enemy killing more of us and maybe defeating the USA.
So why would we Americans support people who wanted the enemy to succeed and eventually hurt us, ME?

What is the difference between the Trade War and an armed conflict? True no bombs, no physical damage...BUT
economically both sides will take a hit... in a trade war.

During WWII there was a thing called "rationing"!
In the spring of 1942, the Food Rationing Program was set into motion. Rationing would deeply affect the American way of life for most. The federal government needed to control supply and demand. Rationing was introduced to avoid public anger with shortages and not to allow only the wealthy to purchase commodities.
https://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1674.html

So folks... what is wrong with Americans paying more due to the tariffs imposed on Chinese imports? Or on shortages due to Chinese imports not coming in?
"Rationing" for the better cause... i.e. the balance of trade which right now China makes up this $376 billion deficit by supposedly buying US TREASURIES!

YET... China OWES the USA and citizens $750 BILLION!
Under international law as it has been understood for centuries, successor governments, no matter the circumstances of the establishment of a new government, whether by revolution or civil war, must pay the sovereign debt incurred by its predecessor. But currently, the People’s Republic of China owes a debt of over $750 billion to American citizens who are holding these full faith and credit sovereign bonds (many of them denominated in gold) sold to them by the Republic of China. Worldwide, the debt China owes to all bondholders is estimated to be several trillion dollars. The debt owed to the American people should be paid. The U.S. government could dollar for dollar offset bond interest we owe China with interest, principal and penalties China owes us. It's Time for China to Pay Its Debts to the United States


So folks WHY does the MSM support China... our enemy who owes us $750 billion in the first place, and who HAS now reduced their buying of US treasuries?

Pure stupidity on their part! AGAIN traitors are people that cheer for the other side while tearing down the home team and booing the home team! What is the MSM doing?
Look at these headlines!
View attachment 203611

Now Trumpbots are calling people who exercise their 'Freedom of the Press' and/or 'Free Speech'...traitorous?!?



So...is the U.S. Chamber of Commerce full of 'traitors' as well for STRONGLY disagreeing with Trump's 'tariffs'?

Tariffs are the Wrong Approach | U.S. Chamber of Commerce

Yes or no?

Of course they are! Idiots all that evidently NEVER negotiated shit!
You certainly can't tell the opponent... You guys are right our guys are wrong!"
Why would they do that? Because they like most of you BELIEVE the MSM! This is the point of my thread!
The MSM hates Trump so much they are pumping information that is harmful to the USA and negotiations to improve trade balance.
For example... were you aware that China just because of the threat of tariffs lowered their tariffs by 10% on US cars being imported into China? Why? it's called negotiating!

So yes the Chamber is being totally supportive of the other side. Come on this is America and we should want to do what is best for America and many of these
deals were never in the best interest of America!

1) I think the MSM is generally full of shit on almost everything. I almost NEVER listen to them. Haven't for years.

2) The U.S. Chamber of Commerce couldn't give a shit what the MSM thinks either. They think for themselves. They are (largely) millionaire's and billionaire's who made their money through (generally) free enterprise. Most of them are EXTREMELY well educated AND they understand macroeconomics.

3) So is the Federal Reserve full of traitors too for blasting 'protectionism'?

'Fed Officials Blast Trade Protectionism'

Terms of Service Violation

Yes or no?

 

[healthmyths]

Tariffs are taxes.

Raising taxes does not help the economy.

Raising taxes such as tariffs redistributes income but they are a burden on the economy, as left-wing policies usually are.

So it is OK for China to charge a 25% TAX on US cars imported into China? That's a TAX on US automakers do you understand?
Analysis | Trump’s trade war: Does the U.S. have the ‘lowest tariffs in the world’?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So no real evidence for the $750 billion figure?

So far given two distinct sources now for a definitive source:

To help you out since YOU evidently can't follow the links..

From 1900 to 1940, the Chinese Government issued millions of dollars in sovereign debt, most notably, a large tranche of £25,000,000 issued at 5% in 1913 set to mature in 1960. This massive bond funded the modernization of China's infrastructure and was widely acquired at the time by governments, banks, and investors across the globe. However, in 1938 China defaulted on its "binding engagement upon the Government of the Republic of China and its Successors," leaving millions of global creditors unpaid. In accordance with the terms of the bond, successor government doctrine, and accounting standards, the United States can and should hold China accountable to its obligations.

WHO HOLDS THE BONDS:
The Chinese bonds in question are held throughout the world by treasuries, banks, companies, and over 20,000 private U.S. investors, many of which are active in seeking remuneration. Critically, the U.S. Treasury and Departments of Justice and State are understood to hold substantial portions of this Chinese sovereign debt. These holdings have not been fully cataloged nor has the U.S. Government moved to hold China accountable for its debt obligations.

American Bond Holders Foundation

Now I'm going to HELP you even further as simple math must be hard for you also..

£25,000,000 was worth in 1913 equal to in 2018 £2,801,713,928 or in US dollars $3,707,423,989
Now remember $3,707,423,989 (value of £25,000,000 in 1913) at 5% interest for 115 years (1913 -2018) worth $1,009,834,339,615.

So far given two distinct sources now for a definitive source:

Wow, two "conspiracy" type sources. Very useful.

From 1900 to 1940, the Chinese Government issued millions of dollars in sovereign debt, most notably, a large tranche of £25,000,000 issued at 5% in 1913 set to mature in 1960.

Interesting. But the claim we're looking at is bonds denominated in dollars sold to Americans.

£25,000,000 was worth in 1913 equal to in 2018 £2,801,713,928

Show your work. Keep it simple. Because that's what you're good at.

Well just like the MSM... you left out the important aspect which is why the MSM is called "fake news..." about the ...
£25,000,000 was worth in 1913 equal to in 2018 £2,801,713,928 or in US dollars $3,707,423,989
Now remember $3,707,423,989 (value of £25,000,000 in 1913) at 5% interest for 115 years (1913 -2018) worth $1,009,834,339,615.

You didn't seem to account for the 5% interest rate from 1913 to 2018 which adds up to $1,009,834,339,615... that $1.009 TRILLION.

£25,000,000 was worth in 1913 equal to in 2018 £2,801,713,928

Prove this claim.

You know what I don't have to. I'll give you the link and you do it! 1913 pounds in 2016 | UK Inflation Calculator

You took the value of a bond and then adjusted the value up......for inflation?

 

[McRocket]

Tell me these people are unhappy and concerned! The below is just moments ago.
View attachment 203801 View attachment 203801

Here is the MSNBC description of the DOW numbers today:

'Dow jumps 250 points as trade fears dissipate

CNBC US Home

That means the DOW is up largely BECAUSE trade fears dissipated today. But coming into today, the DOW was down YTD LARGELY BECAUSE of trade fears.

That means the markets generally HATE Trump's tariff idea.


I guess to you most/all Wall Street traders are traitors as well - for not having more faith in Trump's tariff plan?

 

[McRocket]

Tariffs are taxes.

Raising taxes does not help the economy.

Raising taxes such as tariffs redistributes income but they are a burden on the economy, as left-wing policies usually are.

So it is OK for China to charge a 25% TAX on US cars imported into China? That's a TAX on US automakers do you understand?
Analysis | Trump’s trade war: Does the U.S. have the ‘lowest tariffs in the world’?

View attachment 203802

So what? That just means that Chinese citizens are getting screwed.

The only reason there is a trade deficit is that Americans are buying SO MANY Chinese made goods. NO one is forcing them to...but they do it anyway.

So are Americans who buy Chinese made goods traitors?

Yes or no?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Too Much Pork, Tariffs Mean Too Few Buyers • farmdoc daily

Another casualty of the trade war


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Dragonlady]

Here is what should happen, let both countries pay what is owed to the other one.

China pays us our 750 billion and we pay them their $1.168 trillion.

Or, we could just pay the difference and call it all even, how does sound.

I AGREE! We definitely could come up with another $418 billion from some other country that wants our debt plus pays down our national debt at the same time!

I do have to wonder one thing though, you do realize there is no connection between our national debt and our trade deficit?

The former is caused by the government spending too much and the latter by you and me and the rest of the country buying things make in China.

Of course I do! But who is buying our National DEBT! Chinese money with the trade deficit!
AGAIN let's have the trade deficit balanced!
And remember the tariffs on STEEL is a national security issue.
At one time the USA was the No. 1 steel producer in the world. Now 4th. How are planes, ships, etc. made from STEEL/Aluminum. That's the primary reason Trump wants
the Canadian and Chinese trade imbalance especially in steel and aluminum to be rectified. Do you think in case of a war Chinese would still provide the USA with steel?
The US imports 2.5% of steel from China. How much steel does the U.S. import from China?
Now you say "2.5%" that's peanuts! True. But that's not the ONLY issue in the trade tariff imbalance.

So I have no problem with China paying to US citizens the $750 Billion owed and the USA then paying China what is due. Remember the $750 billion is like offshore money
and look what Apple is doing with their $350 billion!

You cannot balance a trade deficit and having a trade deficit with other countries isn’t a bad thing. That’s the part Trumptards don’t understand.

The USA is a consumer economy. You consume more than you make. You have more stuff than anyone else. Want to end the trade deficit? Quit buying cheap shit from China.

AND it is really a sad state of the MSM that they've convinced you that Trump is so bad you don't want to defend the USA from really lopsided trade deals negotiated out of weakness and fear by prior administrations.

The problem with people like you is you HATE Trump and people like me more than you care for Americans! That simple.
If this were anyone else but Trump you'd be applauding.
Strange but when Trump was a Democrat no one castigated him as they are now as a Republican!
Democrats took ie. Hillary included!

But Trump evidently unlike you loves America and Americans enough that he's seen what the stupid trade deals has cost in American jobs.
He has seen the very important steel/aluminum industry shrink with plant closings and I know people like you don't comprehend it but national security requires an independent steel/aluminum supply. Continuing on the track we were in the USA would have lost that and you would never know until another emergency occurs and we can't answer it!

The trade deals didn’t cost America jobs. The greed of American corporations seeking ever higher profits cost American jobs. American consumers buying the cheapest goods they can find cost the US jobs.

A US tax code which gave tax benefits to corporations off-shoring jobs, cost American jobs.

YOU DID THIS TO YOURSELVES!!!

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I AGREE! We definitely could come up with another $418 billion from some other country that wants our debt plus pays down our national debt at the same time!

I do have to wonder one thing though, you do realize there is no connection between our national debt and our trade deficit?

The former is caused by the government spending too much and the latter by you and me and the rest of the country buying things make in China.

Of course I do! But who is buying our National DEBT! Chinese money with the trade deficit!
AGAIN let's have the trade deficit balanced!
And remember the tariffs on STEEL is a national security issue.
At one time the USA was the No. 1 steel producer in the world. Now 4th. How are planes, ships, etc. made from STEEL/Aluminum. That's the primary reason Trump wants
the Canadian and Chinese trade imbalance especially in steel and aluminum to be rectified. Do you think in case of a war Chinese would still provide the USA with steel?
The US imports 2.5% of steel from China. How much steel does the U.S. import from China?
Now you say "2.5%" that's peanuts! True. But that's not the ONLY issue in the trade tariff imbalance.

So I have no problem with China paying to US citizens the $750 Billion owed and the USA then paying China what is due. Remember the $750 billion is like offshore money
and look what Apple is doing with their $350 billion!

You cannot balance a trade deficit and having a trade deficit with other countries isn’t a bad thing. That’s the part Trumptards don’t understand.

The USA is a consumer economy. You consume more than you make. You have more stuff than anyone else. Want to end the trade deficit? Quit buying cheap shit from China.

AND it is really a sad state of the MSM that they've convinced you that Trump is so bad you don't want to defend the USA from really lopsided trade deals negotiated out of weakness and fear by prior administrations.

The problem with people like you is you HATE Trump and people like me more than you care for Americans! That simple.
If this were anyone else but Trump you'd be applauding.
Strange but when Trump was a Democrat no one castigated him as they are now as a Republican!
Democrats took ie. Hillary included!

But Trump evidently unlike you loves America and Americans enough that he's seen what the stupid trade deals has cost in American jobs.
He has seen the very important steel/aluminum industry shrink with plant closings and I know people like you don't comprehend it but national security requires an independent steel/aluminum supply. Continuing on the track we were in the USA would have lost that and you would never know until another emergency occurs and we can't answer it!

The trade deals didn’t cost America jobs. The greed of American corporations seeking ever higher profits cost American jobs. American consumers buying the cheapest goods they can find cost the US jobs.

A US tax code which gave tax benefits to corporations off-shoring jobs, cost American jobs.

YOU DID THIS TO YOURSELVES!!!

You are 100% correct. The empty rhetoric of stolen jobs and all that BS is just red meat for the faithful.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[healthmyths]

I AGREE! We definitely could come up with another $418 billion from some other country that wants our debt plus pays down our national debt at the same time!

I do have to wonder one thing though, you do realize there is no connection between our national debt and our trade deficit?

The former is caused by the government spending too much and the latter by you and me and the rest of the country buying things make in China.

Of course I do! But who is buying our National DEBT! Chinese money with the trade deficit!
AGAIN let's have the trade deficit balanced!
And remember the tariffs on STEEL is a national security issue.
At one time the USA was the No. 1 steel producer in the world. Now 4th. How are planes, ships, etc. made from STEEL/Aluminum. That's the primary reason Trump wants
the Canadian and Chinese trade imbalance especially in steel and aluminum to be rectified. Do you think in case of a war Chinese would still provide the USA with steel?
The US imports 2.5% of steel from China. How much steel does the U.S. import from China?
Now you say "2.5%" that's peanuts! True. But that's not the ONLY issue in the trade tariff imbalance.

So I have no problem with China paying to US citizens the $750 Billion owed and the USA then paying China what is due. Remember the $750 billion is like offshore money
and look what Apple is doing with their $350 billion!

You cannot balance a trade deficit and having a trade deficit with other countries isn’t a bad thing. That’s the part Trumptards don’t understand.

The USA is a consumer economy. You consume more than you make. You have more stuff than anyone else. Want to end the trade deficit? Quit buying cheap shit from China.

AND it is really a sad state of the MSM that they've convinced you that Trump is so bad you don't want to defend the USA from really lopsided trade deals negotiated out of weakness and fear by prior administrations.

The problem with people like you is you HATE Trump and people like me more than you care for Americans! That simple.
If this were anyone else but Trump you'd be applauding.
Strange but when Trump was a Democrat no one castigated him as they are now as a Republican!
Democrats took ie. Hillary included!

But Trump evidently unlike you loves America and Americans enough that he's seen what the stupid trade deals has cost in American jobs.
He has seen the very important steel/aluminum industry shrink with plant closings and I know people like you don't comprehend it but national security requires an independent steel/aluminum supply. Continuing on the track we were in the USA would have lost that and you would never know until another emergency occurs and we can't answer it!

The trade deals didn’t cost America jobs. The greed of American corporations seeking ever higher profits cost American jobs. American consumers buying the cheapest goods they can find cost the US jobs.

A US tax code which gave tax benefits to corporations off-shoring jobs, cost American jobs.

YOU DID THIS TO YOURSELVES!!!

YOU are 100% correct IF you mean by a US Tax code that was the 3rd highest in the world that caused Apple for example to off-shore nearly $400 billion in profits or
other companies that did the same. If you mean that's how the tax code worked you are right!
For that reason alone Trump has changed that tax code and as a result Apple for example is bringing back nearly $300 billion to be distributed as follows:

Apple Inc. said it will bring hundreds of billions of overseas dollars back to the U.S., pay about $38 billion in taxes on the money and spend tens of billions on domestic jobs, manufacturing and data centers in the coming years.
The iPhone maker plans capital expenditures of $30 billion in the U.S. over five years and will create 20,000 new jobs at existing sites and a new campus it intends to open. The Cupertino, California-based company’s shares rose 1.7 percent to a record closing price of $179.10.
Terms of Service Violation

In summary

• Apple's paying $38 billion in taxes it didn't pay due to a higher corporate tax code that Trump lowered.
• Apple's spending $30 billion creating 20,000 new jobs.

And that's just the tip.

So I agree with you IF you meant the 3rd highest corporate tax in the world forced companies offshore! Thank you!

 

[healthmyths]

Here is what should happen, let both countries pay what is owed to the other one.

China pays us our 750 billion and we pay them their $1.168 trillion.

Or, we could just pay the difference and call it all even, how does sound.

Great IDEA! Sounds simple doesn't it?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Here is what should happen, let both countries pay what is owed to the other one.

China pays us our 750 billion and we pay them their $1.168 trillion.

Or, we could just pay the difference and call it all even, how does sound.

Great IDEA! Sounds simple doesn't it?

Life is not simple.

 

[Dragonlady]

Here is what should happen, let both countries pay what is owed to the other one.

China pays us our 750 billion and we pay them their $1.168 trillion.

Or, we could just pay the difference and call it all even, how does sound.

Great IDEA! Sounds simple doesn't it?

China doesn’t owe you any money. A trade deficit isn’t a debt. The fact that you think they do, shows you are a complete idiot who knows nothing about what a trade deficit is.

 

[healthmyths]

Here is what should happen, let both countries pay what is owed to the other one.

China pays us our 750 billion and we pay them their $1.168 trillion.

Or, we could just pay the difference and call it all even, how does sound.

Great IDEA! Sounds simple doesn't it?

China doesn’t owe you any money. A trade deficit isn’t a debt. The fact that you think they do, shows you are a complete idiot who knows nothing about what a trade deficit is.

DUMMY! China Does owe

From 1900 to 1940, the Chinese Government issued millions of dollars in sovereign debt, most notably, a large tranche of £25,000,000 issued at 5% in 1913 set to mature in 1960. This massive bond funded the modernization of China's infrastructure and was widely acquired at the time by governments, banks, and investors across the globe. However, in 1938 China defaulted on its "binding engagement upon the Government of the Republic of China and its Successors," leaving millions of global creditors unpaid. In accordance with the terms of the bond, successor government doctrine, and accounting standards, the United States can and should hold China accountable to its obligations.


The Chinese bonds in question are held throughout the world by treasuries, banks, companies, and over 20,000 private U.S. investors, many of which are active in seeking remuneration. Critically, the U.S. Treasury and Departments of Justice and State are understood to hold substantial portions of this Chinese sovereign debt. These holdings have not been fully cataloged nor has the U.S. Government moved to hold China accountable for its debt obligations.

American Bond Holders Foundation

Now I'm going to HELP you even further as simple math must be hard for you also..

£25,000,000 was worth in 1913 equal to in 2018 £2,801,713,928 or in US dollars $3,707,423,989
Now remember $3,707,423,989 (value of £25,000,000 in 1913) at 5% interest for 115 years (1913 -2018) worth $1,009,834,339,615.

No one was talking about paying the TRADE DEFICIT you idiot!
The USA owes China nearly $1.1 Trillion in national debt! IDIOT!
The idea is the $1.0 Trillion owes the US and Citizens would be washed by the DEBT the USA owes China!

Now I know why people like you believe the MSM!

I am going to say it again simple hopefully you'll understand!
A) China owes on Chinese Bonds issued in 1913 over $1.0 trillion in loans made at 5% to 20,000 private investors!
B) China OWNS nearly $1 trillion in US treasuries!

It is a wash!
DUMMY!

 

[healthmyths]

Here is what should happen, let both countries pay what is owed to the other one.

China pays us our 750 billion and we pay them their $1.168 trillion.

Or, we could just pay the difference and call it all even, how does sound.

Great IDEA! Sounds simple doesn't it?

Life is not simple.

Duh you think?