Moving forward

[Coyote]

We "deplorables" spoke....you lost

Yes, you are ******* deplorable.

I bet your kids are so proud of you. Hey everybody! Our mommy voted for the ***** grabber!

I feel sorry for those kids having to deal with you as their "mother", you disgusting ******* piece of shit.

Your post is a perfect example of the divisiveness of the Left.

How can we ever come together when the Left is full of hate for anyone who disagrees with them

Typical leftist...and he'd be wise to leave my children out of comments...rules are rules

Unfortunately, family attacks are bipartisan in nature. This particular one has been dealt with. There is no excuse for that behavior.

 

[Coyote]

We "deplorables" spoke....you lost

Yes, you are ******* deplorable.

I bet your kids are so proud of you. Hey everybody! Our mommy voted for the ***** grabber!

I feel sorry for those kids having to deal with you as their "mother", you disgusting ******* piece of shit.

Your post is a perfect example of the divisiveness of the Left.

How can we ever come together when the Left is full of hate for anyone who disagrees with them

maybe we need to evaluate why they hate us to start with. What is it about their opinion that they are afraid of losing?
Take the first step then see if they will move in toward you.

Did that...in the 1980s. I learned it is not possible.

Is it really not so possible? I don't agree. A lot of the election coverage I listened to was on NPR (yes, I know, you're going to slam it) - but what I got out of it was hearing the voices and concerns of real people across the US, over the past 8 months - some of followed repeatedly through the cycle.

It seems like if you follow - I'm not even sure what the term for it is - citizen media? Bloggers, self-styled journalists, even some traditional media sources - but particularly what you see onlline - you're left with the impression that the opposition is a bunch of frothing rabid extremists bent on destroying the country, trashing people yard signs, spray painting graffitti on property and being intolerant assholes. That's not what I got out of listening to these people - and it was from all over the country. I certainly disagreed with their views, but their concerns were real and legitimate, and reasoning was as well. I just don't happen to agree. It can be an eyeopener. Just because someone supported Trump or Clinton, doesn't mean they're hate-filled anti-Americans bent on destroying us.

Edited to add: I happen to be a lone liberal in a very conservative state. So many of the people I'm around, don't share my views. They are very concerned about jobs in WV, about the state of the energy industry and they want coal to come back. Trump's words resonate with them. I don't happen to think coal will come back the way it once was here, and my feelings are we need to invest in training our people for attracting new industries - better paying than fast food franchises. I disagree with them on what needs to be done but their concerns are valid.

 

[Coyote]

The way ObamaCare was written ACTUALLY -- is that it was NOT written at all. It's was a massive 9000 pg (?) "fill in the blank" exercise. Every other line of the text was suffixed with ".... as the Secretary shall determine"".

So when Nancy Pelosi said -- "we won't know whats in the bill til we pass it" -- Folks thought she was just a moron. Turns out -- she was confessing that they had NO IDEA what the law was gonna look like until the Massive Minions of Morons at the Agencies slowly and ackwardly penciled in the details. A process that STILL isn't done or implemented !!!!!

So just parroting that it was a "republican bill" is just the spin you consumed. We STILL don't have full disclosure or implementation of "what's in it"..

It'll be repealed before it's ever fully disclosed, they may as well it's imploding anyway

Do you really think that is good? Forget the partisan stuff for a moment. A lot of people have insurance that didn't before but needed it. People with pre-existing conditions can now get insurance and that is HUGE for many people. Medicaid expansion has helped another huge group of people - people who aren't poor enough to qualify for programs that help the poor, but aren't wealthy enough to afford insurance, or can't afford the high cost of prescription co pays and other things that might not be covered. I totally agree there are problems, but I don't agree with repealing (no surprise right?).

What's going to happen to all those people who are suddenly stripped of insurance?

What's going to happen to people with pre-existing conditions who lose their insurance and can't get new insurance or can't afford the suddenly exhorberant cost?

If you FORCE insurance companies to take people with pre-existing conditions without simultaneiously providing a large pool of compartively healthy people to offset the cost for them (which can only be done through a mandate) - then rates are going to skyrocket for everyone in order to cover the cost. That's sort of happening anyway because there aren't yet enough healthy people enrolled.

I've heard claims that they'll replace it with tax credits and allowing people to cross state lines and buy cheaper insurance but that ignores to huge realities.

Tax credits are only workable if you earn enough to begin with so you can pay up front for all your costs right?

The idea of crossing state lines is also not well thought out. Insurance companies compute their rates based actuarials, on the characteristics of each state. They look at demographics that can effect health like jobs, obesity, smoking, cancer rates, population age etc etc - and those are what create the rates for each state. So a state like mine, WV, has a pretty high insurance cost. Main industries are mining, timber, farming - all with high rates injury and chronic health problems. Obesity is also high (thankgodformississippiwearentthehighest), smoking is high, rates of preventative healthcare low and the overall population is aging. Another state with different demographics and risk factors may have a lower rate BECAUSE of those risks. So if people start being allowed to buy insurance across state lines in order to take advantage of states with lower risk factors and lower costs then what are the insurance companies going to do to offset that? My guess is increase it everywhere, in order to accomodate the changes or - adjust the rate to the individual based on where they live, in which case it won't be any cheaper.

Just from a personal perspective - it's made a difference to my family. Prescription drug costs - even with what my insurance covered was over $400 a month (for my husband). Now it's more like $50. That is a lot of money and repealing Obamacare would bring those costs back.

So while Obamacare itself has some problems - are they so insurmountable the entire thing must be scrapped...and where does that leave millions of people?

what about the people that pay three times what they used to and can no longer afford to use their insurance just so your subsidies can be available. Do you have any compassion for those people? would you meet them in the middle and pay maybe 200 a month for that drug so that someone else might be able to afford to see a doctor also?
There is no free. Remember, if that 400 dollar drug now costs you 50, someone else is paying the 350 for you. Is that fair?

What about them?

How about fixing it so it works for everyone? Do I have compassion for them? Sure. Do YOU have compassion for those who will be affected by repealing Obamacare? Maybe not so much?

I believe in personal responsibility, if a plan could be presented that was fair I'd consider it but what happened was wrong, hard working people that strived to take care of their families and themselves got gouged. The thing was presented as a total lie and they knew when they presented it that it was a lie.

The funny thing is that dreaded and despised Tea Party told you all that....but you chose to believe the lies. Now you have a mess....and lost control

I don't happen to think it's all lies - there are some good things there and it has benefited many people - INCLUDING hard working people. And, if it's repealed, hardworking people will again be gouged.

 

[gipper]

We "deplorables" spoke....you lost

Yes, you are ******* deplorable.

I bet your kids are so proud of you. Hey everybody! Our mommy voted for the ***** grabber!

I feel sorry for those kids having to deal with you as their "mother", you disgusting ******* piece of shit.

Your post is a perfect example of the divisiveness of the Left.

How can we ever come together when the Left is full of hate for anyone who disagrees with them

maybe we need to evaluate why they hate us to start with. What is it about their opinion that they are afraid of losing?
Take the first step then see if they will move in toward you.

Did that...in the 1980s. I learned it is not possible.

Is it really not so possible? I don't agree. A lot of the election coverage I listened to was on NPR (yes, I know, you're going to slam it) - but what I got out of it was hearing the voices and concerns of real people across the US, over the past 8 months - some of followed repeatedly through the cycle.

It seems like if you follow - I'm not even sure what the term for it is - citizen media? Bloggers, self-styled journalists, even some traditional media sources - but particularly what you see onlline - you're left with the impression that the opposition is a bunch of frothing rabid extremists bent on destroying the country, trashing people yard signs, spray painting graffitti on property and being intolerant assholes. That's not what I got out of listening to these people - and it was from all over the country. I certainly disagreed with their views, but their concerns were real and legitimate, and reasoning was as well. I just don't happen to agree. It can be an eyeopener. Just because someone supported Trump or Clinton, doesn't mean they're hate-filled anti-Americans bent on destroying us.

Edited to add: I happen to be a lone liberal in a very conservative state. So many of the people I'm around, don't share my views. They are very concerned about jobs in WV, about the state of the energy industry and they want coal to come back. Trump's words resonate with them. I don't happen to think coal will come back the way it once was here, and my feelings are we need to invest in training our people for attracting new industries - better paying than fast food franchises. I disagree with them on what needs to be done but their concerns are valid.

My point is if you are told for months that Trump is the devil incarnated, how do you now accept him as POTUS? The lib MSM has told their devoted fans that Trump is a f-ing disaster. Many of the them can't believe Trump won...they are in complete denial. The lib MSM duped them again.

It was comical watching the media talking heads last night bemoan in bewilderment.

 

[Coyote]

Yes, you are ******* deplorable.

I bet your kids are so proud of you. Hey everybody! Our mommy voted for the ***** grabber!

I feel sorry for those kids having to deal with you as their "mother", you disgusting ******* piece of shit.

Your post is a perfect example of the divisiveness of the Left.

How can we ever come together when the Left is full of hate for anyone who disagrees with them

maybe we need to evaluate why they hate us to start with. What is it about their opinion that they are afraid of losing?
Take the first step then see if they will move in toward you.

Did that...in the 1980s. I learned it is not possible.

Is it really not so possible? I don't agree. A lot of the election coverage I listened to was on NPR (yes, I know, you're going to slam it) - but what I got out of it was hearing the voices and concerns of real people across the US, over the past 8 months - some of followed repeatedly through the cycle.

It seems like if you follow - I'm not even sure what the term for it is - citizen media? Bloggers, self-styled journalists, even some traditional media sources - but particularly what you see onlline - you're left with the impression that the opposition is a bunch of frothing rabid extremists bent on destroying the country, trashing people yard signs, spray painting graffitti on property and being intolerant assholes. That's not what I got out of listening to these people - and it was from all over the country. I certainly disagreed with their views, but their concerns were real and legitimate, and reasoning was as well. I just don't happen to agree. It can be an eyeopener. Just because someone supported Trump or Clinton, doesn't mean they're hate-filled anti-Americans bent on destroying us.

Edited to add: I happen to be a lone liberal in a very conservative state. So many of the people I'm around, don't share my views. They are very concerned about jobs in WV, about the state of the energy industry and they want coal to come back. Trump's words resonate with them. I don't happen to think coal will come back the way it once was here, and my feelings are we need to invest in training our people for attracting new industries - better paying than fast food franchises. I disagree with them on what needs to be done but their concerns are valid.

My point is if you are told for months that Trump is the devil incarnated, how do you now accept him as POTUS? The lib MSM has told their devoted fans that Trump is a f-ing disaster. Many of the them can't believe Trump won...they are in complete denial. The lib MSM duped them again.

It was comical watching the media talking heads last night bemoan in bewilderment.

Well...that's kind of like what you guys went through with Obama right? Maybe I can learn from you on how to accept it?

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Yes, you are ******* deplorable.

I bet your kids are so proud of you. Hey everybody! Our mommy voted for the ***** grabber!

I feel sorry for those kids having to deal with you as their "mother", you disgusting ******* piece of shit.

Your post is a perfect example of the divisiveness of the Left.

How can we ever come together when the Left is full of hate for anyone who disagrees with them

maybe we need to evaluate why they hate us to start with. What is it about their opinion that they are afraid of losing?
Take the first step then see if they will move in toward you.

Did that...in the 1980s. I learned it is not possible.

Is it really not so possible? I don't agree. A lot of the election coverage I listened to was on NPR (yes, I know, you're going to slam it) - but what I got out of it was hearing the voices and concerns of real people across the US, over the past 8 months - some of followed repeatedly through the cycle.

It seems like if you follow - I'm not even sure what the term for it is - citizen media? Bloggers, self-styled journalists, even some traditional media sources - but particularly what you see onlline - you're left with the impression that the opposition is a bunch of frothing rabid extremists bent on destroying the country, trashing people yard signs, spray painting graffitti on property and being intolerant assholes. That's not what I got out of listening to these people - and it was from all over the country. I certainly disagreed with their views, but their concerns were real and legitimate, and reasoning was as well. I just don't happen to agree. It can be an eyeopener. Just because someone supported Trump or Clinton, doesn't mean they're hate-filled anti-Americans bent on destroying us.

Edited to add: I happen to be a lone liberal in a very conservative state. So many of the people I'm around, don't share my views. They are very concerned about jobs in WV, about the state of the energy industry and they want coal to come back. Trump's words resonate with them. I don't happen to think coal will come back the way it once was here, and my feelings are we need to invest in training our people for attracting new industries - better paying than fast food franchises. I disagree with them on what needs to be done but their concerns are valid.

My point is if you are told for months that Trump is the devil incarnated, how do you now accept him as POTUS? The lib MSM has told their devoted fans that Trump is a f-ing disaster. Many of the them can't believe Trump won...they are in complete denial. The lib MSM duped them again.

It was comical watching the media talking heads last night bemoan in bewilderment.

That's all great, but again you are giving the power of your own life over to someone else, in this case, MSM, they say Trump is the devil incarnated and half the population believes them and acts on that suggestion.
Ignore them, its not that hard. Find the things you disagree with as far as Trump goes and see if there is value in it at all.
Example for me would be the ACA. I hate it, it has taken health care away from as many people as it has given it too, the costs of all insurance has skyrocketed and care has become substandard compared to before the ACA. The value is that some people do now have access and to them that's huge. So, do we make me and those like me happy and go back to the way it was, or do we make the other side happy and continue an unfair practice of forcing others to pay.
Has to be some middle ground somewhere that would allow me to keep what I have at the price that I have it, and to maintain the care I used to get, while at the same time making sure those other people have access to at least a maintenance policy with a catastrophic rider to go along with it.
maybe trim some things out of it, like free birth control, tighter limits on physical therapy in some cases, we don't need a year of physical therapy and a disability check just because we broke our little toe when we dropped our whiskey bottle on it.

 

[Obiwan]

Trump ain't shit till January 20th...

And then he gets to nominate the candidates for the SCOTUS, which will determine our country's direction for the next 20 to 30 years...

Elections have consequences, and the American people have spoken...

 

[gipper]

Your post is a perfect example of the divisiveness of the Left.

How can we ever come together when the Left is full of hate for anyone who disagrees with them

maybe we need to evaluate why they hate us to start with. What is it about their opinion that they are afraid of losing?
Take the first step then see if they will move in toward you.

Did that...in the 1980s. I learned it is not possible.

Is it really not so possible? I don't agree. A lot of the election coverage I listened to was on NPR (yes, I know, you're going to slam it) - but what I got out of it was hearing the voices and concerns of real people across the US, over the past 8 months - some of followed repeatedly through the cycle.

It seems like if you follow - I'm not even sure what the term for it is - citizen media? Bloggers, self-styled journalists, even some traditional media sources - but particularly what you see onlline - you're left with the impression that the opposition is a bunch of frothing rabid extremists bent on destroying the country, trashing people yard signs, spray painting graffitti on property and being intolerant assholes. That's not what I got out of listening to these people - and it was from all over the country. I certainly disagreed with their views, but their concerns were real and legitimate, and reasoning was as well. I just don't happen to agree. It can be an eyeopener. Just because someone supported Trump or Clinton, doesn't mean they're hate-filled anti-Americans bent on destroying us.

Edited to add: I happen to be a lone liberal in a very conservative state. So many of the people I'm around, don't share my views. They are very concerned about jobs in WV, about the state of the energy industry and they want coal to come back. Trump's words resonate with them. I don't happen to think coal will come back the way it once was here, and my feelings are we need to invest in training our people for attracting new industries - better paying than fast food franchises. I disagree with them on what needs to be done but their concerns are valid.

My point is if you are told for months that Trump is the devil incarnated, how do you now accept him as POTUS? The lib MSM has told their devoted fans that Trump is a f-ing disaster. Many of the them can't believe Trump won...they are in complete denial. The lib MSM duped them again.

It was comical watching the media talking heads last night bemoan in bewilderment.

That's all great, but again you are giving the power of your own life over to someone else, in this case, MSM, they say Trump is the devil incarnated and half the population believes them and acts on that suggestion.
Ignore them, its not that hard. Find the things you disagree with as far as Trump goes and see if there is value in it at all.
Example for me would be the ACA. I hate it, it has taken health care away from as many people as it has given it too, the costs of all insurance has skyrocketed and care has become substandard compared to before the ACA. The value is that some people do now have access and to them that's huge. So, do we make me and those like me happy and go back to the way it was, or do we make the other side happy and continue an unfair practice of forcing others to pay.
Has to be some middle ground somewhere that would allow me to keep what I have at the price that I have it, and to maintain the care I used to get, while at the same time making sure those other people have access to at least a maintenance policy with a catastrophic rider to go along with it.
maybe trim some things out of it, like free birth control, tighter limits on physical therapy in some cases, we don't need a year of physical therapy and a disability check just because we broke our little toe when we dropped our whiskey bottle on it.

You are asking leftists to overcome propaganda that has been drilled into their heads. Some may be able, others will not.

 

[Moonglow]

Trump ain't shit till January 20th...

And then he gets to nominate the candidates for the SCOTUS, which will determine our country's direction for the next 20 to 30 years...

Elections have consequences, and the American people have spoken...

Well good for you guys that sometimes don't care..

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Aww no "hi" for me? That makes me sad.

To be fair, you really don't have to ask what either one will do to help the Nation, as both just want to help themselves. Trump is there to keep Clinton out, no more, no less. He's just less evil.

Sorry sweetie - I'm being rude, hiya back at you

I don't think either one is evil - many Clinton voters voted to keep Trump out, many Trump voters voted to keep Clinton out.

Typically elections at the end of a two-term presidency favor the opposing party, in that this aspect, the results were totally predictable. What obscured many things were the dynamics of the individual characters.

Given the leaked emails and the results of her holding public offices, it's pretty clear Clinton is evil, Trump is just self-serving. Things Trump has done in the past just amount to being a jerk. Things Hillary has done have resulted in destroyed lives, deaths, criminal activity in general.

I'm a little proud of myself, I managed to accurately predict this election, and a few of the states Trump would get~
I told a friend a month ago that Trump would get Florida~

I don't agree. One is the leaked emails - which represent little more then a huge data dump, with no time (or political will) to try and verify in terms of accuracy, context etc. There were many instances where it was shown there were alterations - just for an example. They represent an unverified source of information that people take for granted is accurate. We also no NOTHING about emails from Trump's side do we? How can you say he is not "evil" if you don't have his leaked emails? All you can say is you have no way of knowing.

I don't think in terms of "evil" with most people (there are some I would classify as evil - Hitler and his associates, the leaders of ISIS) - but neither Trump nor Hillary are even remotely comparable. The accusations of "deaths" falls right into Conspiracy Theory Land - so I don't grant that legitimacy. I'd rather go with what can be proven by facts and I won't use the "evil" label.

When a person engages in "business practices" that result in slews of people, mostly small businessmen and vendors - going unpaid for the work they did - is that not "destroying lives" and "criminal activity in general"? That's more then being "a jerk" in my book.

And - your prediction was good! Congrats

So, you think the sheer volume of all those emails and contents therein were merely fabrications?

Not what I said. Reread what I wrote.

Not only those, but we have confirmation of her involvement in various criminal activity. Even ignoring the volume and contents, and the file leaks, there's the fact that it wasn't anything new, but confirmation of what we already knew. Would you be willing to claim Hillary isn't corrupt?

Confirmation means indictments. If you have it produce it. Could she be corrupt? I think so. I'm not willing to claim she isn't. I'm also not willing to claim Trump isn't. My evidence for both is the same - bring on the indictments. Same with rape accusations - bring on the indictments.

I think in terms of evil. If you're not a friend of justice, you're a harbinger of varying degrees evil.

I disagree. Evil and justice are two different things. Once you start applying the term "evil" lightly - you cheapen it. It's like people who throw the term "Nazi" and "Stalinist" and "Hitler" willy nilly at those who they don't happen to like. I think once you apply the term evil you can lose sight of humanity. For instance - is it evil for Trump to left those people unpaid? Was it evil for Trump to refuse to rent to blacks? How does that compare to the evil that is ISIS or Hitler? Can you honestly compare HIllary and Trump to those?

It depends on the quality of labor. I don't know enough about the incident to give an opinion on it.

In those incidences - they were the result of Trump choosing bankruptcy over paying, and it happened multiple times. Are you giving more leeway to Trump then to Clinton?

Mistaking lack of indictment for lack of confirmation of guilt would be why you still don't understand how evil she is. She wouldn't have needed to lie to cover herself, destroy Federal records, or destroy and bleach her servers if she wasn't guilty. Every single one of those actions are what confirms her guild, the fact that the Establishment didn't use her as a scape goat yet doesn't make her innocent. Let's also not forget her role in Watergate. There's also the fact that rather than claiming the emails were changed or fabricated, the email senders instantly blamed the Russians. "The Russians hacked those emails!", not "Those are fake!" or "Those were tampered with!". Instead, as an after thought, we got "Err... uhh... maybe those were tampered with. Yup. We're totally, TOTALLY not corrupt. Please just take our word for it instead of applying rational thought!"

I don't apply it lightly, I apply it to those who aren't good, and don't seek justice. I did say "Varying degrees", obviously those aren't the same degrees of evil.

Obviously he'd be wrong in that situation, then. I'd still say he's a jerk, since it's not the betrayal on a national level that we got from Hillary.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

maybe we need to evaluate why they hate us to start with. What is it about their opinion that they are afraid of losing?
Take the first step then see if they will move in toward you.

Did that...in the 1980s. I learned it is not possible.

Is it really not so possible? I don't agree. A lot of the election coverage I listened to was on NPR (yes, I know, you're going to slam it) - but what I got out of it was hearing the voices and concerns of real people across the US, over the past 8 months - some of followed repeatedly through the cycle.

It seems like if you follow - I'm not even sure what the term for it is - citizen media? Bloggers, self-styled journalists, even some traditional media sources - but particularly what you see onlline - you're left with the impression that the opposition is a bunch of frothing rabid extremists bent on destroying the country, trashing people yard signs, spray painting graffitti on property and being intolerant assholes. That's not what I got out of listening to these people - and it was from all over the country. I certainly disagreed with their views, but their concerns were real and legitimate, and reasoning was as well. I just don't happen to agree. It can be an eyeopener. Just because someone supported Trump or Clinton, doesn't mean they're hate-filled anti-Americans bent on destroying us.

Edited to add: I happen to be a lone liberal in a very conservative state. So many of the people I'm around, don't share my views. They are very concerned about jobs in WV, about the state of the energy industry and they want coal to come back. Trump's words resonate with them. I don't happen to think coal will come back the way it once was here, and my feelings are we need to invest in training our people for attracting new industries - better paying than fast food franchises. I disagree with them on what needs to be done but their concerns are valid.

My point is if you are told for months that Trump is the devil incarnated, how do you now accept him as POTUS? The lib MSM has told their devoted fans that Trump is a f-ing disaster. Many of the them can't believe Trump won...they are in complete denial. The lib MSM duped them again.

It was comical watching the media talking heads last night bemoan in bewilderment.

That's all great, but again you are giving the power of your own life over to someone else, in this case, MSM, they say Trump is the devil incarnated and half the population believes them and acts on that suggestion.
Ignore them, its not that hard. Find the things you disagree with as far as Trump goes and see if there is value in it at all.
Example for me would be the ACA. I hate it, it has taken health care away from as many people as it has given it too, the costs of all insurance has skyrocketed and care has become substandard compared to before the ACA. The value is that some people do now have access and to them that's huge. So, do we make me and those like me happy and go back to the way it was, or do we make the other side happy and continue an unfair practice of forcing others to pay.
Has to be some middle ground somewhere that would allow me to keep what I have at the price that I have it, and to maintain the care I used to get, while at the same time making sure those other people have access to at least a maintenance policy with a catastrophic rider to go along with it.
maybe trim some things out of it, like free birth control, tighter limits on physical therapy in some cases, we don't need a year of physical therapy and a disability check just because we broke our little toe when we dropped our whiskey bottle on it.

You are asking leftists to overcome propaganda that has been drilled into their heads. Some may be able, others will not.

asking the same from the right, and as such, I am committing myself to do the same.
Its not that hard, nobody here is so stupid that they would have a problem changing the way they think, or at least the way the react to others different opinions. You can make a statement that to you is valid and true, but to me is not important and most likely in my mind, false.
I can choose to confront you as if you were a commie idiot for such ignorant thoughts, or I could choose to process your thoughts for a moment and try to put some logic to them. Most of the time I will find logic, we all will, and then the response is going to be more informative and give you insight on why I think the way I do. A successful dialogue is then possible.

 

[Tresha91203]

I don't give a **** what his supporters want.

How's "tricks" this fine morning in a New America, you worthless piece of shit?

Taking consolation in the fact that more Americans voted for Clinton than they did Trump, you ******* maggot.

Possibly, most likely thanks to the whack jobs in Cali... lol

Not "possibly," it's a fact.

Doesn't matter. Metropolises and inner cities do not get to steer the entire country. Look at your lower and upper chamber seats. All those R seats up for grabs and the D's got stomped ... again. The country, as a whole, was clear in what they wanted. House, Senate and WH went R. No gridlock and likely 2 SC Justices. California doesn't get to override that.
Its by design and necessary.

 

[Tresha91203]

At least he won't actively work to divide us the way Obama did for 8 years.

Of course not. Walls are meant to unite people.

Mexico is not part of the US. He wont actively try to divide us US citizens the way Obama did. The wall may conceivably help to unite us citizens by reducing competition for jobs and causing wages to finally rise. Less economic stress leads to reduced frustration and tensions.

 

[Coyote]

Mistaking lack of indictment for lack of confirmation of guilt would be why you still don't understand how evil she is.

We are a country of laws, and we are a country where a person is innocent until proven guilty - not the other way around. It may not work 100% of the time, but it's the BEST system humanity has yet to come with that is just and fair. Because of that - we do not submit people to trial by mob, or the court of public opinion. We require certain standards of evidence be met. We don't convict based on hearsay, innuendo, conspiracy theory or unsubtantiated rumor and there is a LOT of that going around.

If I were to label someone "evil" I darn well want proof and I would hope you would also.

Indictments mean there is sufficient evidence for a case to be made. Otherwise, consider the claims, hearsay, ,innuendo, hearsay, innuendo, conspiracy theory or unsubtantiated rumors going around concerning Donald Trump: women who have accused him of rape, sexual assault, and even child-rape (an ongoing lawsuit - not a criminal case). No indictments yet. Should we assume then "hearsay, innuendo, conspiracy theory or unsubtantiated rumors" carry the same weight as that of evidence gathered in criminal investigations that lead to indictments? If hold Trump to those same standards you use for Clinton - Trump is GUILTY of rape, sexual assault, child rape. Pretty evil stuff. And that is just one category of the many charges that get levied at him from his critics.

She wouldn't have needed to lie to cover herself, destroy Federal records, or destroy and bleach her servers if she wasn't guilty. Every single one of those actions are what confirms her guild, the fact that the Establishment didn't use her as a scape goat yet doesn't make her innocent.

Clinton is so techtarded she uses an ancient model of Blackberry that can't even be bought new anymore. She doesn't know how to use a desktop computer. So how exactly is she going to have a skill to evilly manipulate complex informational systems? She used a server because Colin Powell recommended it (and, I think it's important to point out here - others have done the same thing, and why? Becuase the US government, including the State Department uses incredibly primative technology, security is embarresingly poor, and they've been previously hacked). Clinton has other people downloading stuff for her. And she is supposed to be clever enough techwise to "bleach her servers"? I think if she were that clever she would have gotten rid of a whole lot more stuff with the "bleach" and that would have saved a lot of headache for her. Multiple investigations, DoJ, FBI, Republican Congress have failed to turn up anything significant other than the fact that she was reprehensibly careless and should have known better. THAT is a legitimate attack to use against her. The rest not so much given the lack of any real evidence to support it.

Even the whole "bleach" claim is hilariously misunderstood because Trump, same age as Clinton, is also, despite is aptitude with Twitter, is not very tech saavy himself. IF she had wanted to securely destroy information, using Bleachbit would not have been the best means of doing so. It's far more simple and thorough to physically destroy it or use other methods.

Let's also not forget her role in Watergate. There's also the fact that rather than claiming the emails were changed or fabricated, the email senders instantly blamed the Russians. "The Russians hacked those emails!", not "Those are fake!" or "Those were tampered with!". Instead, as an after thought, we got "Err... uhh... maybe those were tampered with. Yup. We're totally, TOTALLY not corrupt. Please just take our word for it instead of applying rational thought!"

Her role in Watergate?

Maybe...just because you hear it on the internet vacuum chambers...you shouldn't automatically believe it or at least research the claims.

Fact or Fiction: Was Hillary Clinton fired from Watergate investigation?

The viral email (see below) is mainly derived from a column published on March 31, 2008, by Dan Calabrese, founder of North Star Writers Group, according to fact-finder TruthOrFiction.com. North Star was a newspaper syndicate that provided services until early 2012.

Calabrese’s information came from Democrat Jerry Zeifman, a counsel and chief of staff of the House Judiciary Committee, who supervised Clinton on the Watergate investigation. Zeifman’s 2006 book, “Hillary’s Pursuit of Power,” states that she “… engaged in a variety of self-serving unethical practices in violation of House rules.”

On his now-shuttered website, Zeifman said, “Hillary Clinton is ethically unfit to be either a senator or president — and if she were to become president, the last vestiges of the traditional moral authority of the party of Roosevelt, Truman and Johnson will be destroyed.”

The problem is that Hillary Clinton remained on the Watergate Committee until Richard Nixon resigned and the Committee was shut down. Hillary Clinton did not work directly for Jerry Zeifman, and so he had no authority to fire her. There is no evidence she was fired, so this story is false.​

If that claim is so demonstrably false, then how many others are little more than conspiracy theory as well?

On the Russians, there is considerable evidence that the Russians were behind the hacks and that is a conclusion that is accepted bipartisanly.

I don't apply it lightly, I apply it to those who aren't good, and don't seek justice. I did say "Varying degrees", obviously those aren't the same degrees of evil.

Obviously he'd be wrong in that situation, then. I'd still say he's a jerk, since it's not the betrayal on a national level that we got from Hillary.

What specific "betrayal"? She didn't commit treason, she didn't commit espionage and again - this is where I think indictments are important because at least then the evidence has to meet a certain standard. Corruption? Maybe. But then we've seen similar levels of corruption alleged with Trump and his foundation. So he gets to be "a jerk" and she is labeled "evil"? I think there are a lot of legitimate criticisms of Clinton - questionable personal ethics, possible corruption among others. But I don't see her as Lucifer incarnate.

I'm reserving evil for the Hitlers, Stalins, ISIS and those sort of nasty critters.

 

[SwimExpert]

You grasp that Republicans hold the house, right?

The same Republicans who despise Trump.

If the Republicans play the Democrat's game, Trump will use his pen and phone. Remember who set that precedent.

Notice the flip flops? It's a flip flop epidemic.

Congress will go into recess before Trump takes office. Just imagine if Obama uses his pen and phone to install Garland onto the court. Pande-*******-monium.

 

[SwimExpert]

He wont actively try to divide us US citizens

Unless they're Muslim.
Or gay.
Or object to having their ***** grabbed.
Or say mean things about him on Twitter.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Congress will go into recess before Trump takes office

And now, they won't be. They may be ineffective at passing laws, but they aren't stupid.

 

[TemplarKormac]

We are a country of laws, and we are a country where a person is innocent until proven guilty - not the other way around.

And we are also taught that evidence beyond reasonable doubt infers guilt or innocence on the accused. A lack of indictment does not indicate a lack of guilt.

 

[TemplarKormac]

If I were to label someone "evil" I darn well want proof and I would hope you would also.

I wouldn't say "evil" just immensely corrupt.

 

[skye]

Moving Forward with Trump.