Most Well Behaved Super Power

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by modman
We did'nt come to anybody's aid. We used it as an excuse to get control of thier oil. Just to look at whats happened to gas prices in that last week. The saudis are sticking it to us as long as they can and as much as they can so as not to look obvious. You wait till we get the oil flowing out of Iraq and see what the saudis do. Anone who denies this subject as to this nation's energy crisis is an ignorant retard.

 

[jon_forward]

damn jim...beat me to it.....another case of Fried-brian syndrome.....classic case said the nurse....[medical description of modman]

 

[freeandfun1]

I'm ripped stoned and MOD's incoherent post made me laugh even harder! lol

 

[lilcountriegal]

We did'nt come to anybody's aid. We used it as an excuse to get control of thier oil.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiight. Since we have control, can you please let me know when that oil starts flowing freely over here in good 'ol America? I mean, I already owe my oil company $400 in back payments for heat this winter.

Boy... 'sure am glad we took their oil. The country is benefitting so greatly.

 

[freeandfun1]

Hey lil... remember how the libs said before we went to war we were doing it for cheap oil? Now that prices have gone up they say that is why we went to war so the oil companies could get rich off higher oil prices.

They argue the point both ways! lol

 

[jon_forward]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
Hey lil... remember how the libs said before we went to war we were doing it for cheap oil? Now that prices have gone up they say that is why we went to war so the oil companies could get rich off higher oil prices.

They argue the point both ways! lol

my guess is they have better weed then you or I.....

 

[freeandfun1]

It might be better, but they can keep it if that is how it makes them think!

 

[jon_forward]

you do have a good point...I cant wonder around all day like this..

 

[lilcountriegal]

They argue the point both ways! lol

Anything that will add spin to their argument I guess.

I dont really care what they think the excuse was for going to war. Whether it be WMD, whether it be oil, whether it be because Dubya was pissed at Saddam because of his daddy. What matters to me is that

1) Saddam will never have the opportunity to develop or use WMD in the near or distant future,

2) My oil tank downstairs isnt benefitting from all the Iraqi oil, nor is my pocketbook.

3) Saddam will never have the opportunity to harm anyones father, whether it be an Iraqi father, American father, or President.

and most importantly, winning the war on terrorism will:

4) Lessen the chance that some shitass praising Allah will fly a jet airplane into a skyscraper and kill thousands of American people, whether they be friends, family, or strangers.

He needed removed. He is removed. I have yet to hear one person give an intelligent well thought out reason as to why we should have left Saddam in power.

As far as the weed is concerned, maybe the libs outta take a deep drag off the bong and loosen their pants for the munchies because rational, sober thought is one thing they lack.

 

[freeandfun1]

Excellent!

 

[kcmcdonald]

excelent nice points

 

[Ralph Wiggums]

1) Saddam will never have the opportunity to develop or use WMD in the near or distant future
3) Saddam will never have the opportunity to harm anyones father, whether it be an Iraqi father, American father, or President.

These two fall into the same category, causing harm to others. Merely stating them as two separate topics to increase the overall number of reasons is spurious. Not that they are invalid.
‘Anything that will add spin to their argument I guess.’

2) My oil tank downstairs isnt benefitting from all the Iraqi oil, nor is my pocketbook.

Just like the well-planned war for the oil, these things will take time. From the articles I’ve read, Saudi Arabia is sticking it to us while they still can because they know their days of dominating the US oil market are coming to an end. Also, the fact that the war may have been over oil does not necessarily need to reflect it in the prices paid here, merely that we have secured a long term supply. Also to mention that because oilmen currently run the country, they have been able to increase the prices around each driving holiday they want with no repercussions, regardless of the actual quantities. So market indicative prices vs actual pump prices are subject to debate as to who is setting them.

and most importantly, winning the war on terrorism will:
4) Lessen the chance that some shitass praising Allah will fly a jet airplane into a skyscraper and kill thousands of American people, whether they be friends, family, or strangers.

It has yet to be proven that SH had any links to any terrorist organizations that were aiming at the US. The one group that he has been linked to (Hamas), shows he did not give support for the actual terrorists, but for their families after Israeli forces tore down their homes for retribution for their sons or daughters participation in a suicide bombing. He has not supplied arms, conventional or not, or money to the actual terrorists. There are reports that people in America have sent more money to terrorist organizations than SH did. Most did this unknowingly, but they are the ones that had the most likely chance of funding 9/11. Should they be held accountable for not researching the organizations they were contributing to? The real issue that most people want to see resolved to alleviate the fears of jets being used as weapons, is the capture of the person that HAS been implicated in 9/11. Sending the majority of our forces to Iraq was not the best option for looking for a 7 foot man dragging a dialysis machine behind him, especially when his last known location and favorite hangouts were in Afghanistan. That is what I have seen here that has most people up in arms (among other things).

He needed removed. He is removed. I have yet to hear one person give an intelligent well thought out reason as to why we should have left Saddam in power.

This is posturing for the sake of posturing. From what I’ve read on this forum, you are confusing peoples sentiments against the ‘logic’ and means for our going to war, as opposed to the removal of a dictator like SH. I don’t think many people will say that taking him out was a bad thing. If they do, I’m sure it is for self-serving discussion. What people are dissenting against is the way we went into war. The end does not justify the means for those that disagree with the need to go into Iraq based on intelligence that even pre-war was suspect. If that logic is good for you, fine. But faulting people for having an honorable opinion because they would rather choose alternative means to accomplish the same end belies your intolerance for people with opposing viewpoints. Just because some people think we could have gone about the Iraq issue without resorting to violence does not make them extremists or out of touch with what they think is best for America. That being to achieve the same end while not alienating us from the rest of the world for a bad sell of the war, then going ahead with it anyway only to be proven wrong about one of the main pillars for justification of the war to begin with (WMD). I guess it would be better to do it the way it’s been done and to exacerbate the situation in the Muslim world, thereby creating a larger base of disenfranchised people to draw into the terrorist doctrine. Stereotyping people with opposing views as potheads when your own ranks are the only ones I’ve seen in this thread that confess to doing it, is feckless.

 

[Ralph Wiggums]

Oh, and if you believe the Bush propaganda machine after 9/11, by buying drugs, you are supporting terrorism. So by your own admittance of being stoned, you are supporting terrorists. Unless of course you grow it yourself.

 

[freeandfun1]

I am going to assume you are talking to me.

I grow 1, yes, 1, plant a year. That more than supports what I smoke during the rest of the year (you can get a lot of bud off of a well taken care of plant!).

However, from time to time I do buy. I don't put weed in the same category as drugs, so I don't buy into the propoganda as you put it. I do know that terrorism does profit from drug sales though. Escpecially heroin and hashish. But then again, I just put $50 worth of gas in my car. That probably supports the terroritsts more than any weed I ever bought did.

 

[tim_duncan2000]

But then again, I just put $50 worth of gas in my car. That probably supports the terroritsts more than any weed I ever bought did.

Probably true. That's what I thought was stupid about those drugs support terrorism commercials. I guess we should stop driving cars then.

 

[tim_duncan2000]

He has not supplied arms, conventional or not, or money to the actual terrorists.

You know this for sure? That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. So you're saying that the whole time he was in power, he never helped terrorists? Wow.

Just like the well-planned war for the oil, these things will take time. From the articles I’ve read, Saudi Arabia is sticking it to us while they still can because they know their days of dominating the US oil market are coming to an end.

So you're in the "No Blood For Oil" crowd? That argument makes no sense and that's not what's going on. I know you will just spin it and say things like it hasn't been implemented yet or some weak BS reason like that.

Just because some people think we could have gone about the Iraq issue without resorting to violence

So what do you propose? More UN resolutions? More sanctions (weren't some of the people who were against the war also opposed to the sanctions because of how many deaths they are supposed to have caused?). They tried that.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
I am going to assume you are talking to me.

I grow 1, yes, 1, plant a year. That more than supports what I smoke during the rest of the year (you can get a lot of bud off of a well taken care of plant!).

However, from time to time I do buy. I don't put weed in the same category as drugs, so I don't buy into the propoganda as you put it. I do know that terrorism does profit from drug sales though. Escpecially heroin and hashish. But then again, I just put $50 worth of gas in my car. That probably supports the terroritsts more than any weed I ever bought did.

Good call... but of course, I support legalization specifically because most casual users understand that MJ and hard drugs are two totally different things... but I think that's been discussed in another thread!

 

[kcmcdonald]

Also to mention that because oilmen currently run the country, they have been able to increase the prices around each driving holiday they want with no repercussions, regardless of the actual quantities

It's called supply and Demand. You say it your self in this statement "Driving holidays" meaning that lots of people will be driving. Hence a high demand. So when a period of high demand for a certain comodity comes around(i.e gas during Thanksgiving, and Christmas) the price goes up.
same thing with natural gas, that's why in the winter the price is so high because demand outwieghs supply and the price goes up.

:

 

[lilcountriegal]

These two fall into the same category, causing harm to others. Merely stating them as two separate topics to increase the overall number of reasons is spurious. Not that they are invalid.
‘Anything that will add spin to their argument I guess.’

Consider it as spin if thats what tickles your pickle. The fact remains the same... He is no longer in power. He will no longer kill innocent Iraqi citizens. He will no longer attempt to acquire, assemble, or use any type of weapons. No Iraqi father will have to worry about their daughter being raped and tortured and then he be killed.

It has yet to be proven that SH had any links to any terrorist organizations that were aiming at the US.

Okay. You really believe this, that he was not involved in any way to terrorist organizations? GEEZUS. I guess he never declared "War" on George Bush, Sr. and America in general. I can see the scenario now... do you really, for one iota of a second, believe that given the opportunity, Saddam would not have launched an attack against America, on American soil? Just because he was not proven to be linked to 9/11 does not mean that he was outraged at the outcome, nor does it mean that he wouldnt have carried out the same type of terrorist attack, given the chance.

The one group that he has been linked to (Hamas),

And you do not consider Hamas terroists? I think you need to review Hamas as a whole. Just because they have not directly targeted Americans yet, that makes them 1) no less of a terrorist organization and 2) no less dangerous to Americans.

The real issue that most people want to see resolved to alleviate the fears of jets being used as weapons

This being the only statement you made that I agree with. BUT, just because Al-Queda was directly linked to 9/11, that does not mean that other terrorist organizations would pass up on a chance to hurt/mame/kill Americans.

Sending the majority of our forces to Iraq was not the best option for looking for a 7 foot man dragging a dialysis machine behind him, especially when his last known location and favorite hangouts were in Afghanistan.

Gee. I must be behind the times. Last I heard, we did have forces stationed in Afghanistan looking for the turd. Whether we catch him and kill him, or whether he dies a slow, painful, medical death makes no difference to me. Dead is dead. May he rot in hell.

What people are dissenting against is the way we went into war. The end does not justify the means for those that disagree with the need to go into Iraq based on intelligence that even pre-war was suspect. If that logic is good for you, fine. But faulting people for having an honorable opinion because they would rather choose alternative means to accomplish the same end belies your intolerance for people with opposing viewpoints

Again, I ask: what would you personally have done differently? Waited another 12 years for the U.N. sanctions to be enforced? I can see the logic in that, I mean it worked so well the first time around

What other alternative means do you suggest? Inviting him over for tea and asking him to please play nicely? Thats all and well in you're world, but here in mine, I'd rather he be removed prior to inflicting more pain, suffering, and death on any human, not only American. He has been asked, ordered, and sanctioned with no improvements for 12 years. That, in and of itself, shows his lack of respect for peaceful discussion.

Just because some people think we could have gone about the Iraq issue without resorting to violence does not make them extremists or out of touch with what they think is best for America.

I never referred to anyone as extremists, however, I do consider them out of touch. This entire discussion of reasoning behind war, etc., has been inflated for none other than political reasons. The Democrats are now crying foul over reasoning behind going to war that they also voted for. They were given the same intelligence as Bush and they all, Republicans and Democrats alike, were in agreement that there was cause for concern and removal. Now, all of a sudden at election time, Democrats are pointing the finger at Bush. Instead of making this argument partisan, maybe everyone should take a look at the breakdown in intelligence and work to fix that crack in the system so as to make sure it isnt repeated.

exacerbate the situation in the Muslim world, thereby creating a larger base of disenfranchised people to draw into the terrorist doctrine.

Please do not try to blow smoke up my ass. The Muslim world has always, and will always hate "the West", regardless of the situation in Iraq. However, this is America and you are entitled to your opinion. I, however, am also entitled to chuckle and refuse to paint the same "lets all hold hands and sing Kumbayah and all will be well" world for myself.

This is reality. This is my life. I had a jet airplane full of Americans crash not half an hour from where I live. I had friends searching the fields for body parts and evidence, some that will never be the same after witnessing what they did. Other people watched two towers fall in NYC, some saw a plane hit the Pentagon. Some were in California, or Iowa, or Montana, or Wisconsin crying as hard as the rest of us regardless of location.

What matters is not "which" terrorists flew those planes. What matters is a "terrorist" did it. I choose to take the route of eliminating terrorism before another "group" of terrorists decide to release Anthrax into general population, or to begin using suicide bombers on our own soil. A threat is a threat is a threat, regardless of who makes it. Saddam was a tyrant. He supported terrorism. He is no longer a threat. Period, end of discussion.

 

[Ralph Wiggums]

For the breakdown of my other thoughts on this issue, there is an earlier reply in this very thread. I'm not kidding. It's really there. Remind me not to Jump into a discussion when it pops to the top of a menu without reading the rest of the thread, and ask questions that were answered days ago. As for those that are not......

Standing here, accused of the ability to spin a statement, it appears I am in good company.