I don't understand why the two sides of this issue can't just admit that there's valid points on both sides, and move on. There is no definitive answer, and ridiculing each other and proclaiming how easy they are to hate just makes you look like a flaming ass hole.
Instead of being a nice guy, I'm going to show how dick y'all are.
You can't see how it might appear as "gloating" to 9/11 victims' families, by doing this? You're a stupid scum sucking ******* ass hole douschebag.
You can't see how it may be wrong to tie these builders in with 9/11 terrorists? You jerk cows off into pig's mouths and then give them french kisses.
Again, MOST people on the right are NOT tying these people into 9/11. Some are sure, but a few people are not representative of any group.
Saying that even though this group has a right to build this mosque they shouldn't because it appears insensitive is not an unreasonable position.
I have seen MANY MANY on the right acknowledge that yes, they have the same right as anyone to build whatever they like, within zoning laws, on their own property. And yes, I have seen a few "lefties" admit that it is insensitive to do so in this situation, but then they turn right around and say something along the lines of "but we have a right to be insensitive in this country", and that is true we DO have that right, well not right per se, but you know what I mean; but exercising THAT right in this situation seems to be a piss poor way proving that you are wanting to build bridges. It's like saying I want to be good neighbors and then having my dog shit on your lawn every morning, the actions don't match the words.
Saying they shouldn't build because it's insensitive, is, in effect, tying them to 9/11. Otherwise, there's really no other reason that it's insensitive.
I don't tie them personally into 9/11. I DO however tie their religion into 9/11. I am not going to defend that position, because it is human nature and therefor not entirely logical and simply wouldn't be defensible. Intellectually we all understand that not every Muslim approved of 9/11. That just makes logical sense that 1.5B people don't all agree on something. But we humans aren't based solely on logic and my emotions tell me that countless videos of ordinary Muslims on the streets cheering the deaths of thousands of Americans immediately after 9/11, or any other terror attack, and the relative lack of evidence of Muslims condemning these types of attacks indicates that more Muslims approve of such behavior than some would like to admit.
Is Islam a religion of terror? Oh , I think that's debatable and evidence exists to support either position. But what is not debatable is that many have used it as a religion of terror. A fact that MANY want to try to hide, or counter with the "So are Christians" argument. An argument by the way that holds no water, but that is another thread entirely.
So, if you want to have an honest debate about this, you'd have to admit that A) Islam absolutely is responsible for 9/11 POSSIBLY a perverted version of Islam , but Islam none the less, and that is what I do not see ANY on "the other side" acknowledging, hell instead I see some, many in fact, claiming that it had NOTHING to do with Islam. Now that is obviously not true, so the debate right away starts with a lie. how can we have honest debate if one side begins with an untruth?
It is also true that some on "my side" need to admit that there is no proof that these guys are took part in, or supported 9/11. the evidence just isn't there. However we DO have evidence that Islam teaches that lying to infidels is encouraged. So do we just believe them despite the words of their own religion? Also, it is a fact that this Imam Faisel immediately following 9/11 stated that America was partially responsible, and That is some utter bullshit, those three thousand Americans were innocent.
The next lie that "your side" must stop telling if we are to have honest debate is the lie that those on the right want the laws changed so mosques can't be built, if not out law Islam completely. Sure there are some kooks who are saying that, but damn man that is hilarious that "your side" is berating us for supposedly grouping all Muslims in together with their kooks while at the same time grouping anyone who opposes this mosque into the kooky group who want it outlawed. I don't want it outlawed, Willow doesn't want it outlawed, RSG doesn't want it outlawed, Syrenn doesn't want it outlawed, and right on down the line. What we want is for the Muslims to say "We CHOOSE not to build this mosque, because public opinion has convinced us that to do so would make it appear that we are building this as a slap in the face to America and that is not our intent". I personally would LOVE to see that statement from Faisel and then to see him propose building a true interfaith community center , and by truly interfaith I mean just that no mosque, no temple, no church. Just include a worship room for all and call it exactly that.
Another issue entirely ignored and denied by some is the historical fact that Muslims tend to build mosques at the sites of great victories, and clearly this can be construed to be such an attempt.
Here's another sad fact. I believe 100 percent that if this were a situation in which a Christian Church were attempting to do something like this many of the very people who are screaming that the Muslims have their rights would in fact be screaming that the Christians shouldn't do this. Now , I of course don't expect you to admit that, but the evidence is all over this board to support my belief. In short, I believe there is this irrational need to defend Islam sweeping logic from some people's brains right now. And for the record, I AM a Christian, and if the situation were entirely the same but substitute Christian for Muslim I would be telling Brother Faisel that he is an insensitive creep.
