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Moscow - pootin´s state TV is discussing the DEATH PENALTY for 2 Americans, Alexander John-Robert Drueke & Andy Tai Ngoc Huynh, captured by Muscovite

Silver Cat

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Really?

The Russians gave it up with an agreement back when the Soviet Union fell.
It depends on your definition of the term 'Russia'. You can understand it as 'The Russian Federation' or as 'Land, populated by the Russians' (as well as the word 'America' may means either 'The USA' or 'American continent'.)
 

Open Bolt

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Im not sure if you are aware, but Ukraine sbest soldiers are dying and the new ones they throw at Russia are tired middle aged men or young men and women with no experience.
Russian losses have been even worse. Russia was catastrophically defeated with massive losses when they tried to capture Kyiv.

Now in the east, Russia has suffered massive losses just to gain a small amount of territory.


They lost the entire Luhanks Oblast and will soon loose the other Oblast as we speak.
Those would be the two oblasts that Russia already controlled most of.

So Russia's massive losses in the east have gained them a small amount of territory.


You claim that Russians are being slaughtered using un confirmed or inflated numbers when its actually Ukrainians who are dying in the war en masse.
That is incorrect. There is ample evidence that Russia was catastrophically defeated with massive losses in their attempt to capture Kyiv.

As for the fighting in the east where Russia made those small territory gains, both sides have suffered huge losses there. An entire generation of Russians is being massacred in Ukraine right now thanks to the weapons that the US is giving to Ukraine to defend themselves with.


As for the International law? The world did not care about actually human right violations by the US, Turkey, UK, Germany, France etc,
What human rights violations are these?

Well, I'll accept that Turkey are nothing but a bunch of no good genocidal criminals. But it isn't true that no one cares about Turkey's crimes. I certainly care.

But with regards to "the US, UK, Germany, and France" what human rights violations are you talking about?


so what makes you think they will react any different with Russia?
The International Criminal Court has already accepted jurisdiction over war crimes committed in the invasion of Ukraine:

And for that matter, I found this when I was getting that above link. The International Criminal Court has also assumed jurisdiction over war crimes committed in Russia's 2008 invasion of Georgia:

I wonder if they will also accept jurisdiction over war crimes committed in Russia's 1999 invasion of Chechnya.


You just stick to your dying unipolar world order while Russia and China create a new one.
The civilized world is not dying.

It remains to be seen if China wishes to join Russia in self destructing.

If China chooses to invade Taiwan, we will use that invasion to gut China just like we are using the invasion of Ukraine to gut Russia.
 

CaptainRussia

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Russian losses have been even worse. Russia was catastrophically defeated with massive losses when they tried to capture Kyiv.

Now in the east, Russia has suffered massive losses just to gain a small amount of territory.



Those would be the two oblasts that Russia already controlled most of.

So Russia's massive losses in the east have gained them a small amount of territory.



That is incorrect. There is ample evidence that Russia was catastrophically defeated with massive losses in their attempt to capture Kyiv.

As for the fighting in the east where Russia made those small territory gains, both sides have suffered huge losses there. An entire generation of Russians is being massacred in Ukraine right now thanks to the weapons that the US is giving to Ukraine to defend themselves with.



What human rights violations are these?

Well, I'll accept that Turkey are nothing but a bunch of no good genocidal criminals. But it isn't true that no one cares about Turkey's crimes. I certainly care.

But with regards to "the US, UK, Germany, and France" what human rights violations are you talking about?



The International Criminal Court has already accepted jurisdiction over war crimes committed in the invasion of Ukraine:

And for that matter, I found this when I was getting that above link. The International Criminal Court has also assumed jurisdiction over war crimes committed in Russia's 2008 invasion of Georgia:

I wonder if they will also accept jurisdiction over war crimes committed in Russia's 1999 invasion of Chechnya.



The civilized world is not dying.

It remains to be seen if China wishes to join Russia in self destructing.

If China chooses to invade Taiwan, we will use that invasion to gut China just like we are using the invasion of Ukraine to gut Russia.

You keep saying that Russia suffered "Catastrophical losses" without any evidence. Russia has lost at best a few thousand men while Ukraine is losing 100s of men every day in the Donbas, something even the Ukrainian officials had to admit. Ukraine has lost many of their best soldiers in the Donbas while fighting for severodonetsk and Lysychansk and the remaining troops are tired and demoralized. Ukraine is undergoing the 6th mobilization, literally forcing young adults, tired middle aged men, women and even retirees into the battle with only 5 days of training wheras Russia has only brougt a few 10 thousand volunteers .

Russia has the manpower, resources, infrastructure and logistics to win the war in Ukraine while Ukraine does not.


As for China.
China and Russia are forming new trade and economic alliances with many countries all over the world, mainly in South America, Africa and the Middle east, further eroding western influence there.

The west is dying in so many ways. Your manufacturing has slumped, your population is aging, birthrates are collapsing, society divided like never before and a generation of weak, undisciplined men, which is why you lost in Afghanistan.

The "civilized" world is becoming the third world, as seen with the economy of the US and EU countries.
 

Silver Cat

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As for the fighting in the east where Russia made those small territory gains, both sides have suffered huge losses there. An entire generation of Russians is being massacred in Ukraine right now thanks to the weapons that the US is giving to Ukraine to defend themselves with.
You see... The Russians have their own understanding of the term 'huge losses'. Previous time 'liberation' of Ukraine cost them 3 million soldiers and 10 million civilians killed (and a much greater number wounded), more than 700 cities and towns (and a much greater number of villages) demolished. And it was 'terrible, but acceptable' price for them. Few thousand of soldiers (say, 0,5% of their peacetime Army) means nothing for them because they believe that there is the very existence of Russia on stake.
In the current operation they didn't even start a mobilisation. And rebranding of MacDonalds isn't even close to 250 grams (0.55 lbs) of bread per day for workers and 125 grams of bread per day for women and children.


If China chooses to invade Taiwan, we will use that invasion to gut China just like we are using the invasion of Ukraine to gut Russia.
According your logic China can't invade Taiwan (as well as Ukraine can't invade DPR and LPR, Russia can't invade Chechnya and Serbia can't invade Kosovo) because Taiwan is a part of China.
 

Open Bolt

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You keep saying that Russia suffered "Catastrophical losses" without any evidence.
There was widespread media coverage of Russia's attempt to take Kyiv, Russia's failure to take Kyiv, lots of footage of destroyed Russian tanks and military vehicles, and quite a few Russian military units being disbanded because they were mostly dead.


Russia has lost at best a few thousand men while Ukraine is losing 100s of men every day in the Donbas, something even the Ukrainian officials had to admit. Ukraine has lost many of their best soldiers in the Donbas while fighting for severodonetsk and Lysychansk and the remaining troops are tired and demoralized. Ukraine is undergoing the 6th mobilization, literally forcing young adults, tired middle aged men, women and even retirees into the battle with only 5 days of training wheras Russia has only brougt a few 10 thousand volunteers .
Russian losses in eastern Ukraine are equally as severe as Ukrainian losses in eastern Ukraine.


Russia has the manpower, resources, infrastructure and logistics to win the war in Ukraine while Ukraine does not.
Russia has already catastrophically failed to take Kyiv, and suffered massive casualties in their failed attempt.

Russia has subsequently incurred further massive losses just to capture a small amount of territory in eastern Ukraine.

By the time the war in Ukraine is over, Russia is not going to have the manpower, resources, infrastructure, or logistics to threaten harm to any other countries.


As for China.
China and Russia are forming new trade and economic alliances with many countries all over the world, mainly in South America, Africa and the Middle east, further eroding western influence there.
That won't save Russia and China from being destroyed.


The west is dying in so many ways. Your manufacturing has slumped, your population is aging, birthrates are collapsing, society divided like never before and a generation of weak, undisciplined men,
The "civilized" world is becoming the third world, as seen with the economy of the US and EU countries.
The west is doing just fine. There isn't an entire generation of westerners being massacred in Ukraine right now.


which is why you lost in Afghanistan.
We didn't lose in Afghanistan. Traitor Joe just pulled our forces out for no reason.
 

Open Bolt

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You see... The Russians have their own understanding of the term 'huge losses'. Previous time 'liberation' of Ukraine cost them 3 million soldiers and 10 million civilians killed (and a much greater number wounded), more than 700 cities and towns (and a much greater number of villages) demolished. And it was 'terrible, but acceptable' price for them.
Forcing Russia to pay such a price ensures that Russia will not later have the resources to harm NATO nations.


Few thousand of soldiers (say, 0,5% of their peacetime Army) means nothing for them because they believe that there is the very existence of Russia on stake.
Russia's losses are a lot worse than a few thousand soldiers.


According your logic China can't invade Taiwan (as well as Ukraine can't invade DPR and LPR, Russia can't invade Chechnya and Serbia can't invade Kosovo) because Taiwan is a part of China.
Word games will not stop China from being gutted with American-supplied weapons the same way that Russia is being gutted with American-supplied weapons.
 

Silver Cat

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Forcing Russia to pay such a price ensures that Russia will not later have the resources to harm NATO nations.
No. Even after paying such a price, Russia was able to conquer Eastern and significant part of Central Europe.
This time Europe can't cause such losses in Russia without direct involvement.

Russia's losses are a lot worse than a few thousand soldiers.
Source? How exactly much worse they are?
Word games will not stop China from being gutted with American-supplied weapons the same way that Russia is being gutted with American-supplied weapons.
The words can't prevent Chinese operation of retaking Taiwan.
 

Open Bolt

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No. Even after paying such a price, Russia was able to conquer Eastern and significant part of Central Europe.
Russia is not an engine of infinite warfare. Gutting their military forces will prevent them from attacking others.


This time Europe can't cause such losses in Russia without direct involvement.
It's mostly the US that is causing the losses, and we are doing so just by giving Ukraine weapons to slaughter Russians with.


Source? How exactly much worse they are?


The words can't prevent Chinese operation of retaking Taiwan.
US supply of weapons to Taiwan will ensure that any Chinese invasion of Taiwan will result in the endless slaughter of Chinese soldiers, much like what is happening to Russia in Ukraine right now.
 

CaptainRussia

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There was widespread media coverage of Russia's attempt to take Kyiv, Russia's failure to take Kyiv, lots of footage of destroyed Russian tanks and military vehicles, and quite a few Russian military units being disbanded because they were mostly dead.



Russian losses in eastern Ukraine are equally as severe as Ukrainian losses in eastern Ukraine.



Russia has already catastrophically failed to take Kyiv, and suffered massive casualties in their failed attempt.

Russia has subsequently incurred further massive losses just to capture a small amount of territory in eastern Ukraine.

By the time the war in Ukraine is over, Russia is not going to have the manpower, resources, infrastructure, or logistics to threaten harm to any other countries.



That won't save Russia and China from being destroyed.



The west is doing just fine. There isn't an entire generation of westerners being massacred in Ukraine right now.



We didn't lose in Afghanistan. Traitor Joe just pulled our forces out for no reason.
Russia has lost many soldiers yet you cant give an exact number or confirmation. Typical.
Luhanks has been finished and as such the most heavily frotified positions there, this makes taking the rest all the easier.
 

Open Bolt

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Russia has lost many soldiers yet you cant give an exact number or confirmation. Typical.
Here is an article about Russia's catastrophic defeat when they tried to capture Kyiv:


Luhanks has been finished and as such the most heavily frotified positions there, this makes taking the rest all the easier.
Russia will not find capturing further territory any easier. All they are doing is sacrificing an entire generation of Russians to slaughter.
 

CaptainRussia

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Here is an article about Russia's catastrophic defeat when they tried to capture Kyiv:



Russia will not find capturing further territory any easier. All they are doing is sacrificing an entire generation of Russians to slaughter.
How did Russia lost in Kiev when then were relocated in the first place?
Kiev was but a feint to pin Ukrainian forces. Now that they lost the mobility to organize any major counteroffensive, all the forces are now concentrated in the Donbas
 

Silver Cat

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Russia is not an engine of infinite warfare. Gutting their military forces will prevent them from attacking others.



It's mostly the US that is causing the losses, and we are doing so just by giving Ukraine weapons to slaughter Russians with.



Oh, boy... It's not a source at all, it's a piece of crap. Russians knew that they can't capture a city with 3 million population by few enhanced battalions. Kiev is much larger than Grozniy, you know. Their actions were mostly demonstrative and a 'reconnaissance by battle'. They did lost few thousands of soldiers but they found the weak spots (in Berdyansk, Melitopol, Kherson etc) and captured them. What is even more important - by creation a threat they tied Ukrainian forces and now beat them step by step. And yes, their losses were not 'huge' - hardly more than in the beginning of the first Chechen campaign. Now they proceed slowly, but effectively (with the pretty low level of casualties and collateral damage).

US supply of weapons to Taiwan will ensure that any Chinese invasion of Taiwan will result in the endless slaughter of Chinese soldiers, much like what is happening to Russia in Ukraine right now.
Chinese soldiers from the both sides?
 

Open Bolt

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How did Russia lost in Kiev when then were relocated in the first place?
Kiev was but a feint to pin Ukrainian forces. Now that they lost the mobility to organize any major counteroffensive, all the forces are now concentrated in the Donbas
That is incorrect. Russia made a serious attempt to capture Kyiv, and was defeated catastrophically.

Russia subsequently suffered great losses just to capture a small amount of territory in the east.

Now instead of pushing on and trying to capture even more territory, Russia is taking a break to see if it is possible for them to recover from their losses.


---------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, boy... It's not a source at all, it's a piece of crap. Russians knew that they can't capture a city with 3 million population by few enhanced battalions. Kiev is much larger than Grozniy, you know. Their actions were mostly demonstrative and a 'reconnaissance by battle'.
Russia intended to capture Kyiv.


Oh, boy... It's not a source at all, it's a piece of crap. Russians knew that they can't capture a city with 3 million population by few enhanced battalions. Kiev is much larger than Grozniy, you know. Their actions were mostly demonstrative and a 'reconnaissance by battle'. They did lost few thousands of soldiers but they found the weak spots (in Berdyansk, Melitopol, Kherson etc) and captured them. What is even more important - by creation a threat they tied Ukrainian forces and now beat them step by step. And yes, their losses were not 'huge' - hardly more than in the beginning of the first Chechen campaign. Now they proceed slowly, but effectively (with the pretty low level of casualties and collateral damage).
Actually Russians are getting slaughtered in large numbers.

After those small territory gains in the east, Russia is now taking a break to see if it is possible for them to recover from their losses.

I expect that they will recover and continue the war. But more and more Russians are being slaughtered as the war progresses.

The collateral damage is pretty bad too. Russia is using pretty indiscriminate weapons.
 

CaptainRussia

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That is incorrect. Russia made a serious attempt to capture Kyiv, and was defeated catastrophically.

Russia subsequently suffered great losses just to capture a small amount of territory in the east.

Now instead of pushing on and trying to capture even more territory, Russia is taking a break to see if it is possible for them to recover from their losses.


---------------------------------------------------------------

Russia intended to capture Kyiv.



Actually Russians are getting slaughtered in large numbers.

After those small territory gains in the east, Russia is now taking a break to see if it is possible for them to recover from their losses.

I expect that they will recover and continue the war. But more and more Russians are being slaughtered as the war progresses.

The collateral damage is pretty bad too. Russia is using pretty indiscriminate weapons.
Russia took Lysychansk and Severodonetsk without suffering substantial casualties while Ukraine lost many of their professional soldiers, so they are now recruiting conscripts like crazy.

The Siege continues with Seversk and Bakhmut, which dont pose much of a challenge.
Im nto sure where you get your casualty count from but Russian forces are in the best shape thanks to regular rotation and casualties have only been minimal, which is why Russia continues to gain ground.

Since you are talking about Russian casualties, tell me about Ukrainian ones? Which side do you think can sustain theirs better?
 

Open Bolt

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Russia took Lysychansk and Severodonetsk without suffering substantial casualties while Ukraine lost many of their professional soldiers, so they are now recruiting conscripts like crazy.
Russian casualties in eastern Ukraine were just as severe as Ukrainian casualties in eastern Ukraine.


Since you are talking about Russian casualties, tell me about Ukrainian ones? Which side do you think can sustain theirs better?
Probably about the same. But Ukrainian casualties are not the issue here. The important thing is to keep up the slaughter of Russians.

The point of all this is to break Russia as a significant military power and leave them as an empty shell of a country. Slaughtering an entire generation of Russians in the fields of Ukraine will achieve that.
 

CaptainRussia

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Russian casualties in eastern Ukraine were just as severe as Ukrainian casualties in eastern Ukraine.



Probably about the same. But Ukrainian casualties are not the issue here. The important thing is to keep up the slaughter of Russians.

The point of all this is to break Russia as a significant military power and leave them as an empty shell of a country. Slaughtering an entire generation of Russians in the fields of Ukraine will achieve that.
Ukrainians themselves admit that Russia is inflicting attrition on Ukrainian army by killing many skilled soldiers of Ukraine.
They wont be killing Russian forces when they wont have much of an army left.
What are you even talking about about a " Generation of Russians". Russia is sending no conscripts to Ukraine, most are either volunteers or seasoned fighters. Its Ukraine who are sending the current generation of Ukrainian men to the slaughterhouse and many young Ukrainians either surrender or die.
But you know what, keep coping with your unsubstantiated claims about Russian casualties that you cant even prove. Unless you give me an offocial death count of Ukrainian and Russian soldiers that match with what you say, there is no point in continuing the discussion.
 

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Ukrainians themselves admit that Russia is inflicting attrition on Ukrainian army by killing many skilled soldiers of Ukraine.
Ukraine is inflicting the same attrition on Russia.


They wont be killing Russian forces when they wont have much of an army left.
There won't be much of a Russian army left either by that point.


What are you even talking about about a " Generation of Russians". Russia is sending no conscripts to Ukraine, most are either volunteers or seasoned fighters.
Russia doesn't have many volunteers and seasoned fighters left.


Its Ukraine who are sending the current generation of Ukrainian men to the slaughterhouse and many young Ukrainians either surrender or die.
Many Russian soldiers are also either surrendering or dying.


But you know what, keep coping with your unsubstantiated claims about Russian casualties that you cant even prove.
I provided proof that the Russian attempt to take Kyiv was a catastrophic defeat.

Do you need proof that after the recent small territorial gains in the east of Ukraine, now Russia is being forced to take a break to recover instead of pressing onwards?

I'm sure I could dig up an article for that as well if I have to.
 

CaptainRussia

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Ukraine is inflicting the same attrition on Russia.



There won't be much of a Russian army left either by that point.



Russia doesn't have many volunteers and seasoned fighters left.



Many Russian soldiers are also either surrendering or dying.



I provided proof that the Russian attempt to take Kyiv was a catastrophic defeat.

Do you need proof that after the recent small territorial gains in the east of Ukraine, now Russia is being forced to take a break to recover instead of pressing onwards?

I'm sure I could dig up an article for that as well if I have to.
You keep talking about Kiev, but where is the evidence about Russian losses and supposed defeat?
This is very rediculous way of coping with Ukraines defeat.
 

Open Bolt

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You keep talking about Kiev, but where is the evidence about Russian losses and supposed defeat?
Right here:


This is very rediculous way of coping with Ukraines defeat.
What defeat it this? You mean their loss of a small amount of territory in the east?

I admit that Ukraine does not want to lose any territory at all, so the loss of that territory sucks for them.

Hopefully they have a much brighter future ahead of them as a full-fledged member of the EU.
 

CaptainRussia

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Right here:



What defeat it this? You mean their loss of a small amount of territory in the east?

I admit that Ukraine does not want to lose any territory at all, so the loss of that territory sucks for them.

Hopefully they have a much brighter future ahead of them as a full-fledged member of the EU.
Still doesnt provide evidence about the "massive casualties"
 

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