More than 1,000 weapons stashed at biker shooting scene

[Pheonixops]

There is your right to bear arms at work:

More than 1 000 weapons stashed at biker shooting scene National News - WLKY Home

WACO, Texas (CNN) —A gun stuffed inside a bag of tortilla chips. Weapons wedged between bags of flour. A handgun left in a toilet.

Days after a massive shootout left nine bikers dead, police are finding more evidence and clues about what happened at a Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco, Texas.

Among them: More than 1,000 weapons left behind. And some bikers may have stashed away even more, police said.

"These were vicious criminals that knew that they were in trouble, and they were trying to dispose of evidence," Waco Police Sgt. W. Patrick Swanton said.

With 170 suspects in custody, authorities have a complex investigation on their hands. All of the suspects face charges of engaging in organized crime, and each one has bail set at $1 million.

So far, only one person has made bail. Jeff Battey, 40, bonded out of the McLennan County jail on Wednesday, a law enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation said.

More at the link.

There's nothing wrong with the Second Amendment or people "bearing arms" as long as they do it in a lawful manner.

 

[2aguy]

Whatever you say.....I'm just pointing out major flaws in the OP....and laughing at the amateur way it was presented.

What's really funny is how many times liberals are caught creating an issue and continually try to use it against the right. How bout naming all of the Republicans that supports biker gangs and support murder with illegal guns. How bout that?

I was actually looking for anyone on the right to condemn it and to speak about the problems in the white community. I was told that if you dont do that you are accepting the violence by being silent

Dude....stfu!!!

One shooting is an incident. If it was happening on a regular basis it would be a problem. Murders in black neighborhoods happen every single day. That is a problem. Murders among rival gangs is a problem to the gangs. Biker gangs aren't a problem to civilians. They're a problem to each other.

White murders happen everyday too. I think you should change your mind again and state that you're not upset at the number of murders you're "upset" at murders only when you can somehow make it about any group besides whites.

So if you have to make it about percentages to achieve that goal, you're down. If you have to make over 100 guns from a gang shootout, no biggie. Muds down.

Weapons, drugs and violence wont be condemned by Mud because it doesnt happen all the time. And by all the time I mean, Mud doesnt know because he's looking at the black ones only

Nope. Your rationale is faulty.

Name the last time you remember a shootout between bikers.

Aww, see? You gave up already. I said whites kill everyday and your response is about bikers only

Name the last day that some black kid wasn't murdered by another black in Chicago.

Probably today, just like the last time a white person was murdered by another white guy.

Name the last time a biker gang looted a liquor store.

Back to biker gangs only huh? Well they didnt loot, they just had hundreds of weapons and 9 dead with over 50 in the hospital. No biggie...when you're white tho

You're like these fuckers that talk about Christians during the Spanish Inquisition hundreds of years ago murdering people, while at the same time ignoring ISIS cutting off heads 100-300 at a time.

I say white and black, you say white bikers only looting vs black everyone. Because you're fair

And yet...in Baltimore were the social justice bullies had a riot, burned down 200 stores and now they have 100 murders in the city (this time last year it was about 750) because they have convinced the police that standing down is a better idea than stopping crime...but hey...let's talk about bikers..............

 

[orogenicman]

There is your right to bear arms at work:

More than 1 000 weapons stashed at biker shooting scene National News - WLKY Home

WACO, Texas (CNN) —A gun stuffed inside a bag of tortilla chips. Weapons wedged between bags of flour. A handgun left in a toilet.

Days after a massive shootout left nine bikers dead, police are finding more evidence and clues about what happened at a Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco, Texas.

Among them: More than 1,000 weapons left behind. And some bikers may have stashed away even more, police said.

"These were vicious criminals that knew that they were in trouble, and they were trying to dispose of evidence," Waco Police Sgt. W. Patrick Swanton said.

With 170 suspects in custody, authorities have a complex investigation on their hands. All of the suspects face charges of engaging in organized crime, and each one has bail set at $1 million.

So far, only one person has made bail. Jeff Battey, 40, bonded out of the McLennan County jail on Wednesday, a law enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation said.

More at the link.

There's nothing wrong with the Second Amendment or people "bearing arms" as long as they do it in a lawful manner.

When tens of thousands die each year from guns shots, it is clear that people aren't doing it lawfully. Maybe we should tax gun owners to pay for all the court costs and personal damage.

 

[2aguy]

There is your right to bear arms at work:

More than 1 000 weapons stashed at biker shooting scene National News - WLKY Home

WACO, Texas (CNN) —A gun stuffed inside a bag of tortilla chips. Weapons wedged between bags of flour. A handgun left in a toilet.

Days after a massive shootout left nine bikers dead, police are finding more evidence and clues about what happened at a Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco, Texas.

Among them: More than 1,000 weapons left behind. And some bikers may have stashed away even more, police said.

"These were vicious criminals that knew that they were in trouble, and they were trying to dispose of evidence," Waco Police Sgt. W. Patrick Swanton said.

With 170 suspects in custody, authorities have a complex investigation on their hands. All of the suspects face charges of engaging in organized crime, and each one has bail set at $1 million.

So far, only one person has made bail. Jeff Battey, 40, bonded out of the McLennan County jail on Wednesday, a law enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation said.

More at the link.

Actually, this is your stupid gun laws at work......background checks did not stop them did they....these guys are all felons and couldn't pass a background check....

All the more reason to tighten them up significantly.

And how tight should they be....like in Europe...

No. Like in Japan, which has the lowest gun homicide rate in the world.

And of course you just hear that from the closest gun grabber and you just accept it...do you realize how they achieve their low gun murder rate...first, culture....because they came from a feudal background and a top down society guns were never real big in their culture to begin with. Then, throw in a police state...do you realize that the Japanese police can stop you in the street anytime they want for any reason? And that they can also search your home like that and conduct yearly inspections? Or that they can hold you for questioning without giving you access to a lawyer and often beat you to get you to confess, and judges don't care?

Oh....and they still have gun crime when the criminals want or need guns.....

 

[2aguy]

There is your right to bear arms at work:

More than 1 000 weapons stashed at biker shooting scene National News - WLKY Home

WACO, Texas (CNN) —A gun stuffed inside a bag of tortilla chips. Weapons wedged between bags of flour. A handgun left in a toilet.

Days after a massive shootout left nine bikers dead, police are finding more evidence and clues about what happened at a Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco, Texas.

Among them: More than 1,000 weapons left behind. And some bikers may have stashed away even more, police said.

"These were vicious criminals that knew that they were in trouble, and they were trying to dispose of evidence," Waco Police Sgt. W. Patrick Swanton said.

With 170 suspects in custody, authorities have a complex investigation on their hands. All of the suspects face charges of engaging in organized crime, and each one has bail set at $1 million.

So far, only one person has made bail. Jeff Battey, 40, bonded out of the McLennan County jail on Wednesday, a law enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation said.

More at the link.

There's nothing wrong with the Second Amendment or people "bearing arms" as long as they do it in a lawful manner.

When tens of thousands die each year from guns shots, it is clear that people aren't doing it lawfully. Maybe we should tax gun owners to pay for all the court costs and personal damage.

Yeah...that makes sense, the people who aren't breaking the law have to pay.....moron.....there are only 8,454 gun murders in 2013 according to the FBI about 11,000 according to the CDC, and Americans use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack (non police, non military) and save lives on average 2 million times a year....

And accidental gun deaths for 2013 from the CDC...505....

8,454-11,000 gun murders vs. a population of over 320 million people, with over 320 million guns in private hands and over 90 million homes with guns in them and over 11.1 million gun owners carrying guns for self defense....

We don't have a gun problem...we have an inner city criminal problem in small, multi block areas of our large, mainly democrat controlled inner cities....

Take out those small, multi block areas...and our gun crime is as low or lower than Europe....

So 320 million guns in private hands and only 8-11,000 gun murders......that doesn't even show up statistically......

 

[orogenicman]

There is your right to bear arms at work:

More than 1 000 weapons stashed at biker shooting scene National News - WLKY Home

More at the link.

Actually, this is your stupid gun laws at work......background checks did not stop them did they....these guys are all felons and couldn't pass a background check....

All the more reason to tighten them up significantly.

And how tight should they be....like in Europe...

No. Like in Japan, which has the lowest gun homicide rate in the world.

And of course you just hear that from the closest gun grabber and you just accept it...do you realize how they achieve their low gun murder rate...first, culture....because they came from a feudal background and a top down society guns were never real big in their culture to begin with. Then, throw in a police state...do you realize that the Japanese police can stop you in the street anytime they want for any reason? And that they can also search your home like that and conduct yearly inspections? Or that they can hold you for questioning without giving you access to a lawyer and often beat you to get you to confess, and judges don't care?

Oh....and they still have gun crime when the criminals want or need guns.....

Nor sir. I read it in the published statistics on gun homicides worldwide. Perhaps you should check and see what they say. They achieve it because they make guns virtually impossible for the populous to obtain. You see, they don't have a stupid, archaic second amendment like we do. And by the way, Japan is not a police state. They have more democracy than we do.

 

[2aguy]

Actually, this is your stupid gun laws at work......background checks did not stop them did they....these guys are all felons and couldn't pass a background check....

All the more reason to tighten them up significantly.

And how tight should they be....like in Europe...

No. Like in Japan, which has the lowest gun homicide rate in the world.

And of course you just hear that from the closest gun grabber and you just accept it...do you realize how they achieve their low gun murder rate...first, culture....because they came from a feudal background and a top down society guns were never real big in their culture to begin with. Then, throw in a police state...do you realize that the Japanese police can stop you in the street anytime they want for any reason? And that they can also search your home like that and conduct yearly inspections? Or that they can hold you for questioning without giving you access to a lawyer and often beat you to get you to confess, and judges don't care?

Oh....and they still have gun crime when the criminals want or need guns.....

Nor sir. I read it in the published statistics on gun homicides worldwide. Perhaps you should check and see what they say. They achieve it because they make guns virtually impossible for the populous to obtain. You see, they don't have a stupid, archaic second amendment like we do. And by the way, Japan is not a police state. They have more democracy than we do.

No...this is how they stop gun crime...they have a police state no American would tolerate....and the Yakuza still gets guns when they want them or need them....

Japan Gun Control and People Control

Crime Control

Japan's strictly-regulated guns play very little part in crime. In 1985, for example, only 35 crimes, including 10 murders, were committed with hunting guns.

Although handguns are completely forbidden to civilians, they still figure somewhat more often in crime. Handguns were used in 209 crimes in 1985. About 2/3 of all gun crimes are committed by Boryokudan, organized crime groups.

As the gun-banners point out, the Japanese crime rate is dramatically lower than the U.S. rate. Tokyo, the world's safest major city, suffers muggings at the rate of 40 per year per one
million inhabitants. New York City's rate is 11,000.

According to government statistics, Japan has 1.5 homicides per 100,000 citizens each year, and America has 7.9. Actually, the gap between U.S. and Japanese homicide rates is not quite as large as the official statistics indicate. The real Japanese murder rate is about twice the reported rate; unlike the U.S., Japan does not count an attempt to injure, but which accidentally causes death, as a homicide. The F.B.I. also over-counts American murders, by listing the 1,500 - 2,500 legal, self- defense fatal shootings of criminals as illegal homicide. Still, Japan's actual homicide rate is two to three times lower than the U.S. rate. As for handgun murders, the U.S. rate is 200 times higher than Japan's.

Robbery in Japan is about as rare as murder. Japan's annual robbery rate is 1.8 per 100,000 inhabitants; America's is 205.4. Do the gun banners have the argument won when they point to these statistics? No, they don't.

A realistic examination of Japanese culture leads to the conclusion that gun control has little, if anything, to do with Japan's low crime rates.

Japan's lack of crime is more the result of the very extensive powers of the Japanese police, and the distinctive relation of the Japanese citizenry to authority. Further, none of the reasons which have made gun control succeed in Japan (in terms of disarming citizens) exist in the U.S.

The Japanese criminal justice system bears more heavily on a suspect than any other system in an industrial democratic nation. One American found this out when he was arrested in Okinawa for possessing marijuana: he was interrogated for days without an attorney, and signed a confession written in Japanese that he could not read. He met his lawyer for the first time at his trial, which took 30 minutes.

Unlike in the United States, where the Miranda rule limits coercive police interrogation techniques, Japanese police and prosecutors may detain a suspect indefinitely until he confesses.

(Technically, detentions are only allowed for three days, followed by ten day extensions approved by a judge, but defense attorneys rarely oppose the extension request, for fear of offending the prosecutor.) Bail is denied if it would interfere with interrogation.

Even after interrogation is completed, pretrial detention may continue on a variety of pretexts, such as preventing the defendant from destroying evidence. Criminal defense lawyers are the only people allowed to visit a detained suspect, and those meetings are strictly limited.

Partly as a result of these coercive practices, and partly as a result of the Japanese sense of shame, the confession rate is 95%.

For those few defendants who dare to go to trial, there is no jury. Since judges almost always defer to the prosecutors' judgment, the trial conviction rate for violent crime is 99.5%.
Of those convicted, 98% receive jail time.

In short, once a Japanese suspect is apprehended, the power of the prosecutor makes it very likely the suspect will go to jail. And the power of the policeman makes it quite likely that a criminal will be apprehended.

The police routinely ask "suspicious" characters to show what is in their purse or sack. In effect, the police can search almost anyone, almost anytime, because courts only rarely exclude evidence seized by the police -- even if the police acted illegally.

The most important element of police power, though, is not authority to search, but authority in the community. Like school teachers, Japanese policemen rate high in public esteem, especially in the countryside. Community leaders and role models, the police are trained in calligraphy and Haiku composition. In police per capita, Japan far outranks all other major democracies.


So no....it isn't the absence of guns, it is the power of the society in forcing pacifism, and the powers of the legal system to punish those who break the law....you want that here...ask your lefty friends if they want it here..see what they say....of course as lefties you probably do....

 

[orogenicman]

There is your right to bear arms at work:

More than 1 000 weapons stashed at biker shooting scene National News - WLKY Home

WACO, Texas (CNN) —A gun stuffed inside a bag of tortilla chips. Weapons wedged between bags of flour. A handgun left in a toilet.

Days after a massive shootout left nine bikers dead, police are finding more evidence and clues about what happened at a Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco, Texas.

Among them: More than 1,000 weapons left behind. And some bikers may have stashed away even more, police said.

"These were vicious criminals that knew that they were in trouble, and they were trying to dispose of evidence," Waco Police Sgt. W. Patrick Swanton said.

With 170 suspects in custody, authorities have a complex investigation on their hands. All of the suspects face charges of engaging in organized crime, and each one has bail set at $1 million.

So far, only one person has made bail. Jeff Battey, 40, bonded out of the McLennan County jail on Wednesday, a law enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation said.

More at the link.

There's nothing wrong with the Second Amendment or people "bearing arms" as long as they do it in a lawful manner.

When tens of thousands die each year from guns shots, it is clear that people aren't doing it lawfully. Maybe we should tax gun owners to pay for all the court costs and personal damage.

Yeah...that makes sense, the people who aren't breaking the law have to pay.....moron.....there are only 8,454 gun murders in 2013 according to the FBI about 11,000 according to the CDC, and Americans use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack (non police, non military) and save lives on average 2 million times a year....

And accidental gun deaths for 2013 from the CDC...505....

8,454-11,000 gun murders vs. a population of over 320 million people, with over 320 million guns in private hands and over 90 million homes with guns in them and over 11.1 million gun owners carrying guns for self defense....

We don't have a gun problem...we have an inner city criminal problem in small, multi block areas of our large, mainly democrat controlled inner cities....

Take out those small, multi block areas...and our gun crime is as low or lower than Europe....

So 320 million guns in private hands and only 8-11,000 gun murders......that doesn't even show up statistically......

Call it the price you pay for putting people's lives in danger.

Gun violence in the U.S. in 2015:

Gun Violence Archive

And the year is not even over.

 

[2aguy]

There is your right to bear arms at work:

More than 1 000 weapons stashed at biker shooting scene National News - WLKY Home

WACO, Texas (CNN) —A gun stuffed inside a bag of tortilla chips. Weapons wedged between bags of flour. A handgun left in a toilet.

Days after a massive shootout left nine bikers dead, police are finding more evidence and clues about what happened at a Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco, Texas.

Among them: More than 1,000 weapons left behind. And some bikers may have stashed away even more, police said.

"These were vicious criminals that knew that they were in trouble, and they were trying to dispose of evidence," Waco Police Sgt. W. Patrick Swanton said.

With 170 suspects in custody, authorities have a complex investigation on their hands. All of the suspects face charges of engaging in organized crime, and each one has bail set at $1 million.

So far, only one person has made bail. Jeff Battey, 40, bonded out of the McLennan County jail on Wednesday, a law enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation said.

More at the link.

There's nothing wrong with the Second Amendment or people "bearing arms" as long as they do it in a lawful manner.

When tens of thousands die each year from guns shots, it is clear that people aren't doing it lawfully. Maybe we should tax gun owners to pay for all the court costs and personal damage.

Yeah...that makes sense, the people who aren't breaking the law have to pay.....moron.....there are only 8,454 gun murders in 2013 according to the FBI about 11,000 according to the CDC, and Americans use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack (non police, non military) and save lives on average 2 million times a year....

And accidental gun deaths for 2013 from the CDC...505....

8,454-11,000 gun murders vs. a population of over 320 million people, with over 320 million guns in private hands and over 90 million homes with guns in them and over 11.1 million gun owners carrying guns for self defense....

We don't have a gun problem...we have an inner city criminal problem in small, multi block areas of our large, mainly democrat controlled inner cities....

Take out those small, multi block areas...and our gun crime is as low or lower than Europe....

So 320 million guns in private hands and only 8-11,000 gun murders......that doesn't even show up statistically......

Call it the price you pay for putting people's lives in danger.

Gun violence in the U.S. in 2015:

Gun Violence Archive

And the year is not even over.

The gun violence archive is a lie......

Why the Gun Violence Archive Is Flawed From the Start - The Truth About Guns


The issue is that they are depending on media reports and police blotters for their information. While that might seem reasonable to the lay person, the fact of the matter is that the disparity in the reporting of defensive gun uses versus murders and shootings is so great as to make any analysis based on that data impossible. The old admonition “if it bleeds it leads” is as true as it’s ever been, so virtually every shooting and gun-related death gets reported on the news and is reported to the police. But defensive gun uses? Frequently nothing happened. It’s doubtful that there would even be a police report about many of the incidents, let alone a mention in the news.

Let’s take that a step further. What percentage of defensive gun uses even get reported to the police? Every single person I know who has had a DGU hasn’t reported it — they simply walked away and got on with their lives, thankful for the iron on their side. The problem with the GVA’s assumption is that they believe every single DGU will be reported, and the fact of the matter is that they won’t be.

 

[Pheonixops]

There is your right to bear arms at work:

More than 1 000 weapons stashed at biker shooting scene National News - WLKY Home

WACO, Texas (CNN) —A gun stuffed inside a bag of tortilla chips. Weapons wedged between bags of flour. A handgun left in a toilet.

Days after a massive shootout left nine bikers dead, police are finding more evidence and clues about what happened at a Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco, Texas.

Among them: More than 1,000 weapons left behind. And some bikers may have stashed away even more, police said.

"These were vicious criminals that knew that they were in trouble, and they were trying to dispose of evidence," Waco Police Sgt. W. Patrick Swanton said.

With 170 suspects in custody, authorities have a complex investigation on their hands. All of the suspects face charges of engaging in organized crime, and each one has bail set at $1 million.

So far, only one person has made bail. Jeff Battey, 40, bonded out of the McLennan County jail on Wednesday, a law enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation said.

More at the link.

There's nothing wrong with the Second Amendment or people "bearing arms" as long as they do it in a lawful manner.

When tens of thousands die each year from guns shots, it is clear that people aren't doing it lawfully. Maybe we should tax gun owners to pay for all the court costs and personal damage.

How many thousands die from gunshots and how many millions of people in this country own firearms? How many thousands of people die from automobile accidents, stabbings, poison, and straight up assaults?

 

[orogenicman]

All the more reason to tighten them up significantly.

And how tight should they be....like in Europe...

No. Like in Japan, which has the lowest gun homicide rate in the world.

And of course you just hear that from the closest gun grabber and you just accept it...do you realize how they achieve their low gun murder rate...first, culture....because they came from a feudal background and a top down society guns were never real big in their culture to begin with. Then, throw in a police state...do you realize that the Japanese police can stop you in the street anytime they want for any reason? And that they can also search your home like that and conduct yearly inspections? Or that they can hold you for questioning without giving you access to a lawyer and often beat you to get you to confess, and judges don't care?

Oh....and they still have gun crime when the criminals want or need guns.....

Nor sir. I read it in the published statistics on gun homicides worldwide. Perhaps you should check and see what they say. They achieve it because they make guns virtually impossible for the populous to obtain. You see, they don't have a stupid, archaic second amendment like we do. And by the way, Japan is not a police state. They have more democracy than we do.

No...this is how they stop gun crime...they have a police state no American would tolerate....and the Yakuza still gets guns when they want them or need them....

Japan Gun Control and People Control

You are going to cite Dave Kopel, a known gun advocate? That's not a biased source at all. Oh wait. He always makes it seem terrible that there are no gun deaths. From my perspective any place that has no or very few gun deaths is a pretty good place to live.

A Land Without Guns How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths - The Atlantic

In 2008, the U.S. had over 12 thousand firearm-related homicides. All of Japan experienced only 11, fewer than were killed at the Aurora shooting alone. And that was a big year: 2006 saw an astounding two, and when that number jumped to 22 in 2007, it became a national scandal. By comparison, also in 2008, 587 Americans were killed just by guns that had discharged accidentally.

 

[orogenicman]

There is your right to bear arms at work:

More than 1 000 weapons stashed at biker shooting scene National News - WLKY Home

More at the link.

There's nothing wrong with the Second Amendment or people "bearing arms" as long as they do it in a lawful manner.

When tens of thousands die each year from guns shots, it is clear that people aren't doing it lawfully. Maybe we should tax gun owners to pay for all the court costs and personal damage.

Yeah...that makes sense, the people who aren't breaking the law have to pay.....moron.....there are only 8,454 gun murders in 2013 according to the FBI about 11,000 according to the CDC, and Americans use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack (non police, non military) and save lives on average 2 million times a year....

And accidental gun deaths for 2013 from the CDC...505....

8,454-11,000 gun murders vs. a population of over 320 million people, with over 320 million guns in private hands and over 90 million homes with guns in them and over 11.1 million gun owners carrying guns for self defense....

We don't have a gun problem...we have an inner city criminal problem in small, multi block areas of our large, mainly democrat controlled inner cities....

Take out those small, multi block areas...and our gun crime is as low or lower than Europe....

So 320 million guns in private hands and only 8-11,000 gun murders......that doesn't even show up statistically......

Call it the price you pay for putting people's lives in danger.

Gun violence in the U.S. in 2015:

Gun Violence Archive

And the year is not even over.

The gun violence archive is a lie......

Why the Gun Violence Archive Is Flawed From the Start - The Truth About Guns


The issue is that they are depending on media reports and police blotters for their information. While that might seem reasonable to the lay person, the fact of the matter is that the disparity in the reporting of defensive gun uses versus murders and shootings is so great as to make any analysis based on that data impossible. The old admonition “if it bleeds it leads” is as true as it’s ever been, so virtually every shooting and gun-related death gets reported on the news and is reported to the police. But defensive gun uses? Frequently nothing happened. It’s doubtful that there would even be a police report about many of the incidents, let alone a mention in the news.

Let’s take that a step further. What percentage of defensive gun uses even get reported to the police? Every single person I know who has had a DGU hasn’t reported it — they simply walked away and got on with their lives, thankful for the iron on their side. The problem with the GVA’s assumption is that they believe every single DGU will be reported, and the fact of the matter is that they won’t be.

You want to know the truth about guns. There is no amount of safety training that will ever make them safe, and no amount of justification for the tens of thousands of gun-related deaths in this country. That is the truth about guns.

 

[2aguy]

And how tight should they be....like in Europe...

No. Like in Japan, which has the lowest gun homicide rate in the world.

And of course you just hear that from the closest gun grabber and you just accept it...do you realize how they achieve their low gun murder rate...first, culture....because they came from a feudal background and a top down society guns were never real big in their culture to begin with. Then, throw in a police state...do you realize that the Japanese police can stop you in the street anytime they want for any reason? And that they can also search your home like that and conduct yearly inspections? Or that they can hold you for questioning without giving you access to a lawyer and often beat you to get you to confess, and judges don't care?

Oh....and they still have gun crime when the criminals want or need guns.....

Nor sir. I read it in the published statistics on gun homicides worldwide. Perhaps you should check and see what they say. They achieve it because they make guns virtually impossible for the populous to obtain. You see, they don't have a stupid, archaic second amendment like we do. And by the way, Japan is not a police state. They have more democracy than we do.

No...this is how they stop gun crime...they have a police state no American would tolerate....and the Yakuza still gets guns when they want them or need them....

Japan Gun Control and People Control

You are going to cite Dave Kopel, a known gun advocate? That's not a biased source at all. Oh wait. He always makes it seem terrible that there are no gun deaths. From my perspective any place that has no or very few gun deaths is a pretty good place to live.

A Land Without Guns How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths - The Atlantic

In 2008, the U.S. had over 12 thousand firearm-related homicides. All of Japan experienced only 11, fewer than were killed at the Aurora shooting alone. And that was a big year: 2006 saw an astounding two, and when that number jumped to 22 in 2007, it became a national scandal. By comparison, also in 2008, 587 Americans were killed just by guns that had discharged accidentally.

And keep in mind...our gun murder rate is going down, not up..even as more Americans own and carry guns for protection....and our gun accident rate is going down not up...and we haven't given up our guns....

And again..if you want a police state, that is the only way to stop gun crime....you lefties wouldn't let New York keep stop and frisk...and that is exacly what the Japanese police do and what allows them to keep a handle on gun carrying by criminals in Japan....and they still have shootings there....

Gangster 62 dead after Japan gun rampage - World news - Asia-Pacific NBC News


--A gunman wounded three men near Tokyo on Friday before hiding in a building and apparently killing himself — a rare shooting spree that police said was gang-related.

--Police identified the gunman as Kenji Hayashi, a 62-year-old member of the third-largest gangster group in Japan, the Inagawa-kai.

--According to an account from one of the wounded men, Hayashi suddenly pulled out a gun and shot the three while talking inside a real estate agent's office, Umehara said. Police are investigating whether the three wounded men are also gang members.

Extortion, gambling Guns are strictly controlled in Japan, and shootings are rare, though when they do occur, they are often linked to gangsters, known as yakuza, or Japanese mafia. Yakuza typically make their income from extortion, gambling, prostitution, gunrunning, drug-trafficking and construction kickback schemes.

In 2007, the mayor of Nagasaki, Iccho Ito, was shot to death at close range by a gangster outside a train station while campaigning for re-election.

Later that year, a 37-year-old man killed two people and wounded six others in a shooting spree at a sports club in southern Sasebo city before killing himself outside a church.

 

[2aguy]

There's nothing wrong with the Second Amendment or people "bearing arms" as long as they do it in a lawful manner.

When tens of thousands die each year from guns shots, it is clear that people aren't doing it lawfully. Maybe we should tax gun owners to pay for all the court costs and personal damage.

Yeah...that makes sense, the people who aren't breaking the law have to pay.....moron.....there are only 8,454 gun murders in 2013 according to the FBI about 11,000 according to the CDC, and Americans use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack (non police, non military) and save lives on average 2 million times a year....

And accidental gun deaths for 2013 from the CDC...505....

8,454-11,000 gun murders vs. a population of over 320 million people, with over 320 million guns in private hands and over 90 million homes with guns in them and over 11.1 million gun owners carrying guns for self defense....

We don't have a gun problem...we have an inner city criminal problem in small, multi block areas of our large, mainly democrat controlled inner cities....

Take out those small, multi block areas...and our gun crime is as low or lower than Europe....

So 320 million guns in private hands and only 8-11,000 gun murders......that doesn't even show up statistically......

Call it the price you pay for putting people's lives in danger.

Gun violence in the U.S. in 2015:

Gun Violence Archive

And the year is not even over.

The gun violence archive is a lie......

Why the Gun Violence Archive Is Flawed From the Start - The Truth About Guns


The issue is that they are depending on media reports and police blotters for their information. While that might seem reasonable to the lay person, the fact of the matter is that the disparity in the reporting of defensive gun uses versus murders and shootings is so great as to make any analysis based on that data impossible. The old admonition “if it bleeds it leads” is as true as it’s ever been, so virtually every shooting and gun-related death gets reported on the news and is reported to the police. But defensive gun uses? Frequently nothing happened. It’s doubtful that there would even be a police report about many of the incidents, let alone a mention in the news.

Let’s take that a step further. What percentage of defensive gun uses even get reported to the police? Every single person I know who has had a DGU hasn’t reported it — they simply walked away and got on with their lives, thankful for the iron on their side. The problem with the GVA’s assumption is that they believe every single DGU will be reported, and the fact of the matter is that they won’t be.

You want to know the truth about guns. There is no amount of safety training that will ever make them safe, and no amount of justification for the tens of thousands of gun-related deaths in this country. That is the truth about guns.

Same thing with cars...there were 35,000 accidental deaths in cars and 2.31 non fatal injuries in cars......so between the two, if you have a gun and a car....get rid of the car and carry the gun.........

Accidental deaths in cars....35,000

Accidental gun deaths...505

non fatal car injuries...2.31 million

non fatal gun accidents...17,000 (this number from brain)

 

[orogenicman]

There is your right to bear arms at work:

More than 1 000 weapons stashed at biker shooting scene National News - WLKY Home

WACO, Texas (CNN) —A gun stuffed inside a bag of tortilla chips. Weapons wedged between bags of flour. A handgun left in a toilet.

Days after a massive shootout left nine bikers dead, police are finding more evidence and clues about what happened at a Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco, Texas.

Among them: More than 1,000 weapons left behind. And some bikers may have stashed away even more, police said.

"These were vicious criminals that knew that they were in trouble, and they were trying to dispose of evidence," Waco Police Sgt. W. Patrick Swanton said.

With 170 suspects in custody, authorities have a complex investigation on their hands. All of the suspects face charges of engaging in organized crime, and each one has bail set at $1 million.

So far, only one person has made bail. Jeff Battey, 40, bonded out of the McLennan County jail on Wednesday, a law enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation said.

More at the link.

There's nothing wrong with the Second Amendment or people "bearing arms" as long as they do it in a lawful manner.

When tens of thousands die each year from guns shots, it is clear that people aren't doing it lawfully. Maybe we should tax gun owners to pay for all the court costs and personal damage.

How many thousands die from gunshots and how many millions of people in this country own firearms? How many thousands of people die from automobile accidents, stabbings, poison, and straight up assaults?

Read my lips. There is NO justification for the tens of thousands of gun-related deaths in the U.S. So you want to compare gun deaths versus auto deaths? We can do that:

The biggest difference between an automobile and a gun is that automobiles are not designed specifically to kill. To say nothing of the fact that automobile deaths have dropped by nearly a third in 12 years while gun-related deaths have risen by 25%.

 

[2aguy]

There is your right to bear arms at work:

More than 1 000 weapons stashed at biker shooting scene National News - WLKY Home

WACO, Texas (CNN) —A gun stuffed inside a bag of tortilla chips. Weapons wedged between bags of flour. A handgun left in a toilet.

Days after a massive shootout left nine bikers dead, police are finding more evidence and clues about what happened at a Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco, Texas.

Among them: More than 1,000 weapons left behind. And some bikers may have stashed away even more, police said.

"These were vicious criminals that knew that they were in trouble, and they were trying to dispose of evidence," Waco Police Sgt. W. Patrick Swanton said.

With 170 suspects in custody, authorities have a complex investigation on their hands. All of the suspects face charges of engaging in organized crime, and each one has bail set at $1 million.

So far, only one person has made bail. Jeff Battey, 40, bonded out of the McLennan County jail on Wednesday, a law enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation said.

More at the link.

There's nothing wrong with the Second Amendment or people "bearing arms" as long as they do it in a lawful manner.

When tens of thousands die each year from guns shots, it is clear that people aren't doing it lawfully. Maybe we should tax gun owners to pay for all the court costs and personal damage.

How many thousands die from gunshots and how many millions of people in this country own firearms? How many thousands of people die from automobile accidents, stabbings, poison, and straight up assaults?

Read my lips. There is NO justification for the tens of thousands of gun-related deaths in the U.S. So you want to compare gun deaths versus auto deaths? We can do that:

The biggest difference between an automobile and a gun is that automobiles are not designed specifically to kill. To say nothing of the fact that automobile deaths have dropped by nearly a third in 12 years while gun-related deaths have risen by 25%.

No...they include suicides in the gun deaths which, since we are talking about Japan as well, Japan has 2 times the suicides as the United States and Japanese citizens have no guns to do it with....

Again....gun murders in 2013- 8-11,000 (FBI 8,454...CDC over 11,000)

Car deaths...35,000

90 million homes with guns, over 11.1 million gun owners carry guns for self defense...

accidental gun deaths for 2013 from the CDC table 10.........505

90 million homes with guns, and over 11.1 million carrying guns ever day...and only 505 accidental gun deaths......that shows that American gun owners are very responsible......

And then you want to throw criminals...who cannot legally own guns, into the mix as they kill each other in inner cities...

Stop criminals and you stop gun murder....real gun control = locking up criminals who use guns in crimes and felons caught in possession of guns

 

[orogenicman]

There is your right to bear arms at work:

More than 1 000 weapons stashed at biker shooting scene National News - WLKY Home

More at the link.

There's nothing wrong with the Second Amendment or people "bearing arms" as long as they do it in a lawful manner.

When tens of thousands die each year from guns shots, it is clear that people aren't doing it lawfully. Maybe we should tax gun owners to pay for all the court costs and personal damage.

How many thousands die from gunshots and how many millions of people in this country own firearms? How many thousands of people die from automobile accidents, stabbings, poison, and straight up assaults?

Read my lips. There is NO justification for the tens of thousands of gun-related deaths in the U.S. So you want to compare gun deaths versus auto deaths? We can do that:

The biggest difference between an automobile and a gun is that automobiles are not designed specifically to kill. To say nothing of the fact that automobile deaths have dropped by nearly a third in 12 years while gun-related deaths have risen by 25%.

No...they include suicides in the gun deaths which, since we are talking about Japan as well, Japan has 2 times the suicides as the United States and Japanese citizens have no guns to do it with....

Again....gun murders in 2013- 8-11,000 (FBI 8,454...CDC over 11,000)

Car deaths...35,000

90 million homes with guns, over 11.1 million gun owners carry guns for self defense...

accidental gun deaths for 2013 from the CDC table 10.........505

90 million homes with guns, and over 11.1 million carrying guns ever day...and only 505 accidental gun deaths......that shows that American gun owners are very responsible......

And then you want to throw criminals...who cannot legally own guns, into the mix as they kill each other in inner cities...

Stop criminals and you stop gun murder....real gun control = locking up criminals who use guns in crimes and felons caught in possession of guns

A gun death is a gun death, dude. ONLY 505 accidental gun deaths? And of course, in your view, that's a ******* good thing. You know how many Japan had in the last ten years? I'll let you look it up as punishment for making such a callous statement.

 

[2aguy]

There is your right to bear arms at work:

More than 1 000 weapons stashed at biker shooting scene National News - WLKY Home

WACO, Texas (CNN) —A gun stuffed inside a bag of tortilla chips. Weapons wedged between bags of flour. A handgun left in a toilet.

Days after a massive shootout left nine bikers dead, police are finding more evidence and clues about what happened at a Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco, Texas.

Among them: More than 1,000 weapons left behind. And some bikers may have stashed away even more, police said.

"These were vicious criminals that knew that they were in trouble, and they were trying to dispose of evidence," Waco Police Sgt. W. Patrick Swanton said.

With 170 suspects in custody, authorities have a complex investigation on their hands. All of the suspects face charges of engaging in organized crime, and each one has bail set at $1 million.

So far, only one person has made bail. Jeff Battey, 40, bonded out of the McLennan County jail on Wednesday, a law enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation said.

More at the link.

There's nothing wrong with the Second Amendment or people "bearing arms" as long as they do it in a lawful manner.

When tens of thousands die each year from guns shots, it is clear that people aren't doing it lawfully. Maybe we should tax gun owners to pay for all the court costs and personal damage.

How many thousands die from gunshots and how many millions of people in this country own firearms? How many thousands of people die from automobile accidents, stabbings, poison, and straight up assaults?

Read my lips. There is NO justification for the tens of thousands of gun-related deaths in the U.S. So you want to compare gun deaths versus auto deaths? We can do that:

The biggest difference between an automobile and a gun is that automobiles are not designed specifically to kill. To say nothing of the fact that automobile deaths have dropped by nearly a third in 12 years while gun-related deaths have risen by 25%.

No....guns are designed to save the life of the user and in 54% of self defense encounters they aren't even fired and the attack is stopped....

as to which is more dangerous....the violence policy center is a rabid anti-gun nut site......who use fake numbers...

Are guns more likely to kill you than a car is No - Crime Prevention Research Center crimeresearch.org


Here is the letter that we submitted:

Dear Letters Editor:

Your “Bangers v bullets” (Jan 10th) misleadingly claims that car deaths have fallen more than guns deaths because cars face more safety regulations.

Compare similar categories. While 99.4% of car deaths arise from accidents in 2013, that percentage is only 1.5% for guns. 64% of gun fatalities are suicides. If increased safety regulations are the solution, why is it that between 2000 and 2012 accidental deaths from cars fell by 18% and those from guns by 35%?

Gun deaths are rising because there has been a 28% increase in firearm suicides. But non-firearm suicides increased even faster (56%) –something is causing suicides generally to rise.

Despite your claim, domestic violence simply doesn’t account for a large share of gun deaths — only 3% of gun deaths in 2012 involved murders of immediate or extended family members.

The regulations you mention do real harm. About 99 percent of background check denials under the Brady Act are false positives, not criminals. Some denials mean people can’t defend themselves.

As for gun deaths for 15-24 year olds, most involve gang fights. One solution: Try legalizing drugs.

Regards,

The claim that total automobile deaths have fallen relative to firearm deaths can be seen in this figure, though it is also clear that the drop occurred during the recession of 2008 and 2009 (part of that drop is due in part to some reduction in driving).



The types of deaths by cause show that auto accidents are overwhelmingly accidental deaths and those by firearms are suicides.



There are two problems with the claim that regulations are responsible for the drop in accidental motor vehicle deaths . First, virtually the entire drop occurred in two years during the recession (2008 and 2009) and it is hard to think of any new regulations that would produce such a sudden and large drop (most regulations would have a gradual impact over time has new cars with those features made up a greater and greater share of the cars on the road). Most likely the drop occurred because of changing driving habits (such as some reduction in how much people drove). It is because of this point that we are unlikely to see firearm deaths exceed motor vehicle deaths in 2015.

 

[2aguy]

There's nothing wrong with the Second Amendment or people "bearing arms" as long as they do it in a lawful manner.

When tens of thousands die each year from guns shots, it is clear that people aren't doing it lawfully. Maybe we should tax gun owners to pay for all the court costs and personal damage.

How many thousands die from gunshots and how many millions of people in this country own firearms? How many thousands of people die from automobile accidents, stabbings, poison, and straight up assaults?

Read my lips. There is NO justification for the tens of thousands of gun-related deaths in the U.S. So you want to compare gun deaths versus auto deaths? We can do that:

The biggest difference between an automobile and a gun is that automobiles are not designed specifically to kill. To say nothing of the fact that automobile deaths have dropped by nearly a third in 12 years while gun-related deaths have risen by 25%.

No...they include suicides in the gun deaths which, since we are talking about Japan as well, Japan has 2 times the suicides as the United States and Japanese citizens have no guns to do it with....

Again....gun murders in 2013- 8-11,000 (FBI 8,454...CDC over 11,000)

Car deaths...35,000

90 million homes with guns, over 11.1 million gun owners carry guns for self defense...

accidental gun deaths for 2013 from the CDC table 10.........505

90 million homes with guns, and over 11.1 million carrying guns ever day...and only 505 accidental gun deaths......that shows that American gun owners are very responsible......

And then you want to throw criminals...who cannot legally own guns, into the mix as they kill each other in inner cities...

Stop criminals and you stop gun murder....real gun control = locking up criminals who use guns in crimes and felons caught in possession of guns

A gun death is a gun death, dude. ONLY 505 accidental gun deaths? And of course, in your view, that's a ******* good thing. You know how many Japan had in the last ten years? I'll let you look it up as punishment for making such a callous statement.

Moron...in a country with over 90 million homes with only 505 accidental gun deaths.....are you that stupid......? you think that is a problem.....really? With over 11.1 million people actually carrying guns on a daily basis....505 accidental gun deaths.....out of 11.1 million people alone.....really?

 

[orogenicman]

There is your right to bear arms at work:

More than 1 000 weapons stashed at biker shooting scene National News - WLKY Home

More at the link.

There's nothing wrong with the Second Amendment or people "bearing arms" as long as they do it in a lawful manner.

When tens of thousands die each year from guns shots, it is clear that people aren't doing it lawfully. Maybe we should tax gun owners to pay for all the court costs and personal damage.

How many thousands die from gunshots and how many millions of people in this country own firearms? How many thousands of people die from automobile accidents, stabbings, poison, and straight up assaults?

Read my lips. There is NO justification for the tens of thousands of gun-related deaths in the U.S. So you want to compare gun deaths versus auto deaths? We can do that:

The biggest difference between an automobile and a gun is that automobiles are not designed specifically to kill. To say nothing of the fact that automobile deaths have dropped by nearly a third in 12 years while gun-related deaths have risen by 25%.

No....guns are designed to save the life of the user and in 54% of self defense encounters they aren't even fired and the attack is stopped....

as to which is more dangerous....the violence policy center is a rabid anti-gun nut site......who use fake numbers...

Are guns more likely to kill you than a car is No - Crime Prevention Research Center crimeresearch.org

No sir. Guns have NEVER been designed with the primary intent on saving people's lives. That is an NRA lie. That have been designed from day one to kill. Full stop. That was, and has always been their primary purpose.