More normal people with guns, more criminals getting shot during criminal attacks….good.

[Batcat]

You can't expect the cops to protect you.

Exactly, cops have no requirement ot protect you.

Police Have No Duty to Protect the Public

Though often unsaid in police reform debates, numerous court precedents have established that cops aren’t obligated to act in the interests of citizens.

prospect.org

 

[Ralph Norton]

Locking people up isn't a solution.

What IS the solution?

 

[JoeB131]

To return the favor MORON, I'm talking about locking up people who are already banned from possessing guns. It's ILLEGAL for a felon to possess a firearm of any description. Locking up the small percentage of people who are violent criminal will cut all crime rates down and violent crime rates dramatically.

Again, same problem.

Chicago we seized 10,000 illegal guns. We only have room for 5000 people in Cook County Jail. Simply math says you have to let about half of those people go. Probably a lot more, as you have real criminals to lock up, along with all the other communities in Cook County that need to lock their prisoners up.

Either locking them up or executing them IS the solution.

Not really. Cost benefit analysis, it costs $39,000 a year to lock someone up. Well worth the money for a murderer, but for someone who just used a gun in a stickup for $100? The solution is worse than the problem.

And executions... we only execute 18 people a year. It simply costs too much to litigate more than that.

And we don't lock people up for being in possession of a gun during a crime. The DAs allow them to plea-bargain gun charges to misdemeanors or choose not to prosecute them at all.

As we should.

 

[JoeB131]

What IS the solution?

Short version-

1) Make it very difficult to acquire a gun and hold the gunmakers liable when they sell to the wrong people.
2) Invest in mental health programs.
3) Invest in drug treatment programs.
4) Address the issues of mass poverty in the inner city.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Again, same problem.

Chicago we seized 10,000 illegal guns. We only have room for 5000 people in Cook County Jail. Simply math says you have to let about half of those people go. Probably a lot more, as you have real criminals to lock up, along with all the other communities in Cook County that need to lock their prisoners up.





Not really. Cost benefit analysis, it costs $39,000 a year to lock someone up. Well worth the money for a murderer, but for someone who just used a gun in a stickup for $100? The solution is worse than the problem.

And executions... we only execute 18 people a year. It simply costs too much to litigate more than that.



As we should.

You are an idiot. You have the crime and murder rate you have because of idiotic ideas like you are posting.
As for the cost, that robber probably robbed a hundred or more stores without being caught. Criminals rarely get caught for their crimes, so they rob and kill with impunity for months or years without being caught. The only reason executions cost so much is people like you who are unwilling to hold criminals, even murderers responsible for their actions. I doubt the actual cost of an execution is any higher than putting a pet to sleep.

 

[80zephyr]

Short version-

1) Make it very difficult to acquire a gun and hold the gunmakers liable when they sell to the wrong people.
2) Invest in mental health programs.
3) Invest in drug treatment programs.
4) Address the issues of mass poverty in the inner city.

In all the mass shootings, how many people were cleared by the ATF to own a gun?

 

[AZrailwhale]

In all the mass shootings, how many people were cleared by the ATF to own a gun?

Off hand, I think one or two. Las Vegas comes to mind

 

[SavannahMann]

Keeping recidivist criminals off the streets isn't a solution?

Maybe sensitivity training would be more effective. Not for the criminal, but for you. You can train in various ways of making excuses to the criminal for the mere fact of your existence.

In most any leftist Hell hole in this country, I'll stay with a cwp but you feel free to be the victim you so want to be.

Norway has a much lower Recidivism rate, that is the term for those who get out of prison and commit additional crimes, than we do. They focus on rehabilitation instead of punishment. So why don’t we start a small program like that? Perhaps with one in ten, or one in twenty prisoners. See how the results work out.

We won’t, because that’s not the American Way. We are convinced that getting tough is the answer, and if it doesn’t work, we just insist that we have to get Tougher, it wasn’t tough enough.

It’s stupid, and it’s failed time and time again, and yet, we keep doing the same thing over and over again.

Idiocy. That’s why we can’t ever have any progress on the issues, we are so certain we are right, despite the evidence, that we won’t even consider alternatives.

 

[80zephyr]

Off hand, I think one or two. Las Vegas comes to mind

I haven't heard of one gun man who got the gun illegally.

 

[80zephyr]

Norway has a much lower Recidivism rate, that is the term for those who get out of prison and commit additional crimes, than we do. They focus on rehabilitation instead of punishment. So why don’t we start a small program like that? Perhaps with one in ten, or one in twenty prisoners. See how the results work out.

We won’t, because that’s not the American Way. We are convinced that getting tough is the answer, and if it doesn’t work, we just insist that we have to get Tougher, it wasn’t tough enough.

It’s stupid, and it’s failed time and time again, and yet, we keep doing the same thing over and over again.

Idiocy. That’s why we can’t ever have any progress on the issues, we are so certain we are right, despite the evidence, that we won’t even consider alternatives.

Country	Follow-Up	Rate	Type	Duration
U.K. (England/Wales)	9 years	78%	Reconviction	2000
U.K. (England/Wales)	8 years	77%	Reconviction	2000
Estonia	5 years	76%	Re-arrest	2011-12
U.K. (England/Wales)	7 years	76%	Reconviction	2000
U.K. (England/Wales)	6 years	74%	Reconviction	2000
U.K. (England/Wales)	5 years	72%	Reconviction	2000
U.K. (England/Wales)	4 years	70%	Reconviction	2000
U.K. (England/Wales)	3 years	66%	Reconviction	2000
Denmark	2 years	63%	Reconviction	2013
France	6 years	61%	Reconviction	2004
New Zealand	2 years	61%	Reconviction	2015-16
Estonia	2 years	59%	Re-arrest	2013-14
France	5 years	59%	Reconviction	2002
U.K. (England/Wales)	2 years	59%	Reconviction	2000
Estonia	5 years	58%	Reconviction	2011-12
France	5 years	58%	Reconviction	2004
Canada - Quebec	2 years	55%	Reconviction	2007-08
United States	5 years	55%	Reconviction	2005-10
France	4 years	54%	Reconviction	2004
Australia	2 years	53%	Reconviction	2014-15
New Zealand	5 years	52%	Reimprisonment	2002-03
Denmark	1 years	51%	Reconviction	2013
Ireland	3 years	51%	Reconviction	2013
United States	4 years	51%	Reconviction	2005-10
Chile	3 years	50%	Reimprisonment	2007
Latvia	29 months	50%	Reconviction	2009
New Zealand	4 years	49%	Reimprisonment	2002-03
France	3 years	48%	Reconviction	2004
Germany	3 years	48%	Reconviction	2004
Netherlands	2 years	48%	Reconviction	2007
U.K. (Northern Ireland)	2 years	47%	Reconviction	2005
France	5 years	46%	Reimprisonment	2002
Germany	3 years	46%	Reconviction	2007
New Zealand	1 year	46%	Reconviction	2015-16
U.K. (England/Wales)	1 year	46%	Reconviction	2000
U.K. (Scotland)	1 year	46%	Reconviction	2009-10
Australia	2 years	45%	Reimprisonment	2014-15
Ireland	3 years	45%	Reconviction	2010
U.K. (England/Wales)	1 year	45%	Reconviction	2013
United States	3 years	45%	Reconviction	2005-10
United States	5 years	45%	Reimprisonment	2005-10
New Zealand	3 years	44%	Reimprisonment	2002-03
Canada - Quebec	2 years	43%	Reimprisonment	2007-08
Israel	5 years	43%	Reimprisonment	2004
New Zealand	2 years	43%	Reimprisonment	2015-16
Sweden	2 years	43%	Reconviction	2005
Canada	2 years	41%	Reconviction	1994-95
Israel	5 years	41%	Reimprisonment	2008
United States	4 years	41%	Reimprisonment	2005-10
France	2 years	40%	Reconviction	2004
Australia	2 years	39%	Reimprisonment	2009-10
Chile	2 years	39%	Reconviction	2010
Israel	4 years	38%	Reimprisonment	2008
Estonia	1 year	37%	Re-arrest	2013-14
New Zealand	2 years	37%	Reimprisonment	2002-03
Austria	4 years	36%	Reconviction	2013
Denmark	6 months	36%	Reconviction	2013
Finland	2 years	36%	Reconviction	2005
Finland	2 years	36%	Reconviction	2005
United States	2 years	36%	Reconviction	2005-10
United States	3 years	36%	Reimprisonment	2005-10
Canada - Ontario	2 years	35%	Reconviction	2014-15
Estonia	2 years	35%	Reconviction	2013-14
Germany	3 years	35%	Reimprisonment	2004
Netherlands	1 year	35%	Reconviction	2013
Israel	3 years	34%	Reimprisonment	2008
Austria	3 years	32%	Reconviction	2013
New Zealand	1 year	32%	Reimprisonment	2015-16
Denmark	2 years	29%	Reconviction	2005
United States	2 years	29%	Reimprisonment	2005-10
Israel	2 years	28%	Reimprisonment	2008
Italy	3 years	28%	Re-arrest	2001-09
Iceland	2 years	27%	Reconviction	2005
Iceland	2 years	27%	Reconviction	2009-11
Singapore	2 years	27%	Reconviction	2011
Austria	2 years	26%	Reconviction	2013
France	1 year	26%	Reconviction	2004
New Zealand	1 year	26%	Reimprisonment	2002-03
U.K. (Northern Ireland)	1 year	25%	Reconviction	2005
South Korea	3 years	24%	Reimprisonment	2002
United States	1 year	23%	Reconviction	2005-10
Norway	2 years	20%	Reconviction	2005
Israel	1 year	18%	Reimprisonment	2008
New Zealand	6 months	18%	Reimprisonment	2002-03
United States	1 year	17%	Reimprisonment	2005-10
Estonia	1 year	16%	Reconviction	2013-14
Austria	1 year	15%	Reconviction	2013
United States	6 months	13%	Reconviction	2005-10
United States	6 months	10%	Reimprisonment	2005-10
U.K. (Northern Ireland)	6 months	9%	Reconviction	2005

 

[Hollie]

Norway has a much lower Recidivism rate, that is the term for those who get out of prison and commit additional crimes, than we do. They focus on rehabilitation instead of punishment. So why don’t we start a small program like that? Perhaps with one in ten, or one in twenty prisoners. See how the results work out.

We won’t, because that’s not the American Way. We are convinced that getting tough is the answer, and if it doesn’t work, we just insist that we have to get Tougher, it wasn’t tough enough.

It’s stupid, and it’s failed time and time again, and yet, we keep doing the same thing over and over again.

Idiocy. That’s why we can’t ever have any progress on the issues, we are so certain we are right, despite the evidence, that we won’t even consider alternatives.

There is a whole host of problems with this specific comparison. Among them; population. As of 2019, Norway had a population of about 5.5 million people vs the US with 320 million. A corollary to that involves a largely homogenous population in Norway vs. something completely different in this country.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Norway has a much lower Recidivism rate, that is the term for those who get out of prison and commit additional crimes, than we do. They focus on rehabilitation instead of punishment. So why don’t we start a small program like that? Perhaps with one in ten, or one in twenty prisoners. See how the results work out.

We won’t, because that’s not the American Way. We are convinced that getting tough is the answer, and if it doesn’t work, we just insist that we have to get Tougher, it wasn’t tough enough.

It’s stupid, and it’s failed time and time again, and yet, we keep doing the same thing over and over again.

Idiocy. That’s why we can’t ever have any progress on the issues, we are so certain we are right, despite the evidence, that we won’t even consider alternatives.

Norway is, or at least was, a homogeneous society. It like the rest of Scandinavia has accepted third world immigrants that don’t share Scandinavian values and crime, especially violent crime, is skyrocketing. It’s up about ten percent a year since 2018.

 

[JoeB131]

You are an idiot. You have the crime and murder rate you have because of idiotic ideas like you are posting.
As for the cost, that robber probably robbed a hundred or more stores without being caught. Criminals rarely get caught for their crimes, so they rob and kill with impunity for months or years without being caught. The only reason executions cost so much is people like you who are unwilling to hold criminals, even murderers responsible for their actions. I doubt the actual cost of an execution is any higher than putting a pet to sleep.

The reason executions cost so much is that we have this lovely habit of convicting innocent people and sending them to death row. The state of Illinois had to finally ban the death penalty because we were exonerating more people than we were executing. In fact, 190 people have been exonerated from Death Row since the DP was reestablished in 1976. another 22 people who were executed have serious doubts about their convictions.

Point is, we don't have the money to execute people or imprison them for petty crimes.

 

[JoeB131]

Norway is, or at least was, a homogeneous society. It like the rest of Scandinavia has accepted third world immigrants that don’t share Scandinavian values and crime, especially violent crime, is skyrocketing. It’s up about ten percent a year since 2018.

Okay, let's look at this one.

Denmark- 55 homicides in 2020, down from 66 in 2019. Only one of those involved a gun.

Guns in Denmark — Firearms, gun law and gun control

Gun law, gun control statistics, number of guns in Denmark, gun deaths, firearm facts and policy, armed violence, public health and development

www.gunpolicy.org

Norway - 31 Homicides in 2020, up from 28 in 2019. Well, I guess that's a "10% increase" all right, or a ridiculously low number to start with. Only 2 involved guns.

Guns in Norway — Firearms, gun law and gun control

Gun law, gun control statistics, number of guns in Norway, gun deaths, firearm facts and policy, armed violence, public health and development

www.gunpolicy.org

Sweden - Has 124 homicides, up from 111. That's an 11% increase, but again, really low number to start with. 48 involved guns.

Guns in Sweden — Firearms, gun law and gun control

Gun law, gun control statistics, number of guns in Sweden, gun deaths, firearm facts and policy, armed violence, public health and development

www.gunpolicy.org

Hmmm... Okay.

Now, let's look at the US of A.

24,576 homicides in 2020, up from 2019's - 18,913. A 30% increase! 19,384 committed with guns.

As I've pointed out, when you lock people who can barely stand each other up for months, some of them are going to get a little antsy and holy shit, there's a gun right there to settle that argument over who ate the last donut!

Guns in the United States — Firearms, gun law and gun control

Gun law, gun control statistics, number of guns in United States, gun deaths, firearm facts and policy, armed violence, public health and development

www.gunpolicy.org

 

[AZrailwhale]

The reason executions cost so much is that we have this lovely habit of convicting innocent people and sending them to death row. The state of Illinois had to finally ban the death penalty because we were exonerating more people than we were executing. In fact, 190 people have been exonerated from Death Row since the DP was reestablished in 1976. another 22 people who were executed have serious doubts about their convictions.

Point is, we don't have the money to execute people or imprison them for petty crimes.

So a total of 212 people POSSIBLY wrongly convicted over FORTY SEVEN YEARS. That's an average of FOUR AND A HALF possible wrongful convictions for murder a year. You have indicated that you live in Illinois, in your state in 2021 there were 514 people convicted of murder. If my math is correct that is a .008% rate of bad convictions. That's pretty good for any process run by human beings.

 

[Hollie]

Okay, let's look at this one.

Denmark- 55 homicides in 2020, down from 66 in 2019. Only one of those involved a gun.

Guns in Denmark — Firearms, gun law and gun control

Gun law, gun control statistics, number of guns in Denmark, gun deaths, firearm facts and policy, armed violence, public health and development

www.gunpolicy.org

Norway - 31 Homicides in 2020, up from 28 in 2019. Well, I guess that's a "10% increase" all right, or a ridiculously low number to start with. Only 2 involved guns.

Guns in Norway — Firearms, gun law and gun control

Gun law, gun control statistics, number of guns in Norway, gun deaths, firearm facts and policy, armed violence, public health and development

www.gunpolicy.org

Sweden - Has 124 homicides, up from 111. That's an 11% increase, but again, really low number to start with. 48 involved guns.

Guns in Sweden — Firearms, gun law and gun control

Gun law, gun control statistics, number of guns in Sweden, gun deaths, firearm facts and policy, armed violence, public health and development

www.gunpolicy.org

Hmmm... Okay.

Now, let's look at the US of A.

24,576 homicides in 2020, up from 2019's - 18,913. A 30% increase! 19,384 committed with guns.

As I've pointed out, when you lock people who can barely stand each other up for months, some of them are going to get a little antsy and holy shit, there's a gun right there to settle that argument over who ate the last donut!

Guns in the United States — Firearms, gun law and gun control

Gun law, gun control statistics, number of guns in United States, gun deaths, firearm facts and policy, armed violence, public health and development

www.gunpolicy.org

Umm, a really pointless attempt at analogy. Norway, for example, has population barely 1.5% that of the US.

 

[JoeB131]

Umm, a really pointless attempt at analogy. Norway, for example, has population barely 1.5% that of the US.

Uh, he claimed that crime shot up in Norway... and guess what, it didn't.

Compared to the US, where the murder rate shot up 30% in 2020.

 

[Hollie]

Uh, he claimed that crime shot up in Norway... and guess what, it didn't.

Compared to the US, where the murder rate shot up 30% in 2020.

Uh, you attempted a pointless comparison that literally made no sense.

Yes. Crime is a big problem in leftist controlled cities. The leftist ''defund the police'' and coddle the criminals experiment had been a disaster.

BREAKING: Seattle forced to pay $3.6 MILLION in 2020 CHAZ damages to business owners

The city has until March 3 to pay the sum as part of a settlement revealed last week.

thepostmillennial.com

That ''Summer of Love'' thing. Lovely.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Uh, he claimed that crime shot up in Norway... and guess what, it didn't.

Compared to the US, where the murder rate shot up 30% in 2020.

Ten percent a year IS shooting up.

 

[JoeB131]

Ten percent a year IS shooting up.

If "ten percent" is all of three people, not really.

Our murder rate increased by 30% in 2020. I guess all those guns weren't a good idea.