More History Before 1967

[toastman]

Israel did not initiate the conflict. Go dhow many times do we have to disprove that for you ?
Why would they initiate a conflict that they were doomed to lose (nobody gave them a chance in the war, not even the Israelis). Take that from my dad, who began his service in the IDF in 1967 and was in full out combat in 1973

Are you saying that the Palestinians went to Europe and attacked the Zionists?

I'm talking about the conflict that led to the West Bank and Gaza being occupied.

The Palestinians were part of that war, were they not ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel did not initiate the conflict. Go dhow many times do we have to disprove that for you ?
Why would they initiate a conflict that they were doomed to lose (nobody gave them a chance in the war, not even the Israelis). Take that from my dad, who began his service in the IDF in 1967 and was in full out combat in 1973

Are you saying that the Palestinians went to Europe and attacked the Zionists?

I'm talking about the conflict that led to the West Bank and Gaza being occupied.

The Palestinians were part of that war, were they not ?

How did you get in the middle? I thought we were talking about who started the conflict.

 

[toastman]

Are you saying that the Palestinians went to Europe and attacked the Zionists?

I'm talking about the conflict that led to the West Bank and Gaza being occupied.

The Palestinians were part of that war, were they not ?

How did you get in the middle? I thought we were talking about who started the conflict.

You were talking about the territory that came under military occupation. That took place in 1967 . Could be I misunderstood you

 

[toastman]

And for the 500th time, the Jews didn't come there out of nowhere to instigate a conflict. Jewish/Zionist immigration was ENCOURAGED and A FASCILITATED by the British, who ruled the land after they captured it after World War 1 from the Turks,

 

[P F Tinmore]

I'm talking about the conflict that led to the West Bank and Gaza being occupied.

The Palestinians were part of that war, were they not ?

How did you get in the middle? I thought we were talking about who started the conflict.

You were talking about the territory that came under military occupation. That took place in 1967 . Could be I misunderstood you

Perhaps, I was discussing the beginning of the conflict.

 

[georgephillip]

Israel did not initiate the conflict. Go dhow many times do we have to disprove that for you ?
Why would they initiate a conflict that they were doomed to lose (nobody gave them a chance in the war, not even the Israelis). Take that from my dad, who began his service in the IDF in 1967 and was in full out combat in 1973

Israel did initiate the conflict in '67 just as it did in '48.
That is simply the purpose that settler-colonialist states perform for Empire:

"The war began on June 5 with Israel launching surprise bombing raids against Egyptian air-fields after a period of high tension that included an Israeli raid into the Jordanian-controlled West Bank[12][13] in response to sabotage acts aimed at Israeli targets,[14][15][16]

"Israeli initiated aerial clashes over Syrian territory,[17] Syrian artillery attacks against Israeli settlements in the vicinity of the border followed by Israeli response against Syrian positions in the Golan Heights and encroachments of increasing intensity and frequency (initiated by Israel) into the demilitarized zones along the Syrian border[18] and culminating in Egypt blocking the Straits of Tiran.[19] and ordering of the evacuation from the Sinai Peninsula of the U.N. buffer force."

Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[P F Tinmore]

And for the 500th time, the Jews didn't come there out of nowhere to instigate a conflict. Jewish/Zionist immigration was ENCOURAGED and A FASCILITATED by the British, who ruled the land after they captured it after World War 1 from the Turks,

And they expected to peacefully take over someone else's country.

 

[toastman]

Over someone elses what ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Over someone elses what ?

Are you saying that Palestine was not the Palestinian's country? That it belonged to a bunch of foreigners out of Europe?

 

[HistoryBefore67]

Over someone elses what ?

Are you saying that Palestine was not the Palestinian's country? That it belonged to a bunch of foreigners out of Europe?

No, we're saying that Israel is the historic homeland of the Jewish people, that they never willingly abandoned the land, and that they are decidedly NOT foreigners. No matter how many people choose to deny or ignore these facts, they remain facts.

 

[georgephillip]

Over someone elses what ?

Are you saying that Palestine was not the Palestinian's country? That it belonged to a bunch of foreigners out of Europe?

No, we're saying that Israel is the historic homeland of the Jewish people, that they never willingly abandoned the land, and that they are decidedly NOT foreigners. No matter how many people choose to deny or ignore these facts, they remain facts.

You're saying that Jews alone among all nations of the world are entitled to land their ancestors conquered thousands of years ago.

Why is that?

 

[toastman]

Israel did not initiate the conflict. Go dhow many times do we have to disprove that for you ?
Why would they initiate a conflict that they were doomed to lose (nobody gave them a chance in the war, not even the Israelis). Take that from my dad, who began his service in the IDF in 1967 and was in full out combat in 1973

Israel did initiate the conflict in '67 just as it did in '48.
That is simply the purpose that settler-colonialist states perform for Empire:

"The war began on June 5 with Israel launching surprise bombing raids against Egyptian air-fields after a period of high tension that included an Israeli raid into the Jordanian-controlled West Bank[12][13] in response to sabotage acts aimed at Israeli targets,[14][15][16]

"Israeli initiated aerial clashes over Syrian territory,[17] Syrian artillery attacks against Israeli settlements in the vicinity of the border followed by Israeli response against Syrian positions in the Golan Heights and encroachments of increasing intensity and frequency (initiated by Israel) into the demilitarized zones along the Syrian border[18] and culminating in Egypt blocking the Straits of Tiran.[19] and ordering of the evacuation from the Sinai Peninsula of the U.N. buffer force."

Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You're leaving out a lot of info there George ! What were the events that led up to the pre - emptive strike ?

 

[georgephillip]

Israel did not initiate the conflict. Go dhow many times do we have to disprove that for you ?
Why would they initiate a conflict that they were doomed to lose (nobody gave them a chance in the war, not even the Israelis). Take that from my dad, who began his service in the IDF in 1967 and was in full out combat in 1973

Israel did initiate the conflict in '67 just as it did in '48.
That is simply the purpose that settler-colonialist states perform for Empire:

"The war began on June 5 with Israel launching surprise bombing raids against Egyptian air-fields after a period of high tension that included an Israeli raid into the Jordanian-controlled West Bank[12][13] in response to sabotage acts aimed at Israeli targets,[14][15][16]

"Israeli initiated aerial clashes over Syrian territory,[17] Syrian artillery attacks against Israeli settlements in the vicinity of the border followed by Israeli response against Syrian positions in the Golan Heights and encroachments of increasing intensity and frequency (initiated by Israel) into the demilitarized zones along the Syrian border[18] and culminating in Egypt blocking the Straits of Tiran.[19] and ordering of the evacuation from the Sinai Peninsula of the U.N. buffer force."

Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You're leaving out a lot of info there George ! What were the events that led up to the pre - emptive strike ?

I know that, Toast, and I know we're not too likely to agree on many of the specifics; however, I wonder if you have ever heard of the Coup plan?

"Shortly before the outbreak of war, elements within the IDF considered a military coup[disputed – discuss] against the Israeli government, which would have been followed by the new military government ordering a unilateral attack against the Arab nations.

"The idea was that of Major-General Ariel Sharon, who discussed it with other senior officers. While no definitive plans were ever drawn up, the idea was given serious consideration.

"In the days before the war, the Israeli cabinet was indecisive over whether to follow through with the planned preemptive attack or pursue diplomacy, with military advisers pressing for an attack. Many pro-war officials felt that an Arab invasion of Israel was imminent, and that to delay a paralyzing first strike would be a serious threat to Israel.

"Sharon and other military officials felt that the civilian government would be unable to reach a necessary decision. On May 28, 1967, eight days before the war began, Sharon met with IDF Chief of Staff Yitzhak Rabin and other senior officials.

"He advised them that the cabinet could be detained, a coup declared, and the planned unilateral strike against the Arab nations to be implemented.

"Rabin showed no opposition to the idea."

 

[toastman]

Ya, I've heard about it.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

Are you saying that Palestine was not the Palestinian's country? That it belonged to a bunch of foreigners out of Europe?

No, we're saying that Israel is the historic homeland of the Jewish people, that they never willingly abandoned the land, and that they are decidedly NOT foreigners. No matter how many people choose to deny or ignore these facts, they remain facts.

You're saying that Jews alone among all nations of the world are entitled to land their ancestors conquered thousands of years ago.

Why is that?

If you misquote me, you get no answer. Feel free to try again.

 

[georgephillip]

"In 1917 there were 56,000 Jews in Palestine and 644,000 Palestinian Arabs. Still Britain gave Jewish capital 90 percent of concessions for projects like building roads and power plants and by 1935, Zionists owned 872 out of the 1,212 industrial firms in Palestine."

Jewish genius or British benevolence?

The Hidden Roots of Zionism

 

[Hossfly]

"In 1917 there were 56,000 Jews in Palestine and 644,000 Palestinian Arabs. Still Britain gave Jewish capital 90 percent of concessions for projects like building roads and power plants and by 1935, Zionists owned 872 out of the 1,212 industrial firms in Palestine."

Jewish genius or British benevolence?

The Hidden Roots of Zionism

I wonder how come Georgie Boy's sites never mention the Zionist Yehiel Tschlenov from the Ukraine who was the one who said that the Jewish Homeland had to be where it is today and not in Uganda or anyplace else. All Georgie's propaganda sites seem to focus on Herzl. Your sites are certainly remiss, Georgie Boy. By the way, Georgie Boy, do you really think that the Arabs would have done as good as the Jews when it came to industry. Why don't you show us how good the industrial base was in the surrounding countries so that the Arabs could have stayed in those countries instead of moving to get jobs which the Jews had for them. In fact, why don't you show us the industrial base today of the Arab countries which have no oil. In fact, can you imagine what Saudi Arabia and the Gulf State would be doing today if they didn't have any oil -- probably still living in tents.

Board of the Seventh Zionist Conference with members of the Center for Russian Zionists in Petrograd. Sitting from right: Avraham Poliashevsky, M. Ussishkin, Yehiel Tschlenov, Zeev Tyomkin, Hillel Zlatopolsky. Standing: Attorney Yaakov Kalibanov, Yit

You can see him here in Jerusalem in 1913.

Handwork school for Girls, in Jerusalem, founded by Sarah Tahun. I. Tschlenov during a visit., VIA (Visual Information Access), Harvard University

 

[RoccoR]

georgephillip,

I was on the side of my country.

Rocco...I know I went off track again, but I'm wondering if you could give me a yes or no answer to this question:

Do you still believe you were one of the "good guys" in Vietnam?

(COMMENT)

Good Guys

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

I never said that Tinmore ! Please don't put words in my mouth.
I don't think the word 'belong' is the correct word to use here.
The British captured the land during World War 1 from the Ottomans, not from the Palestinians. The Ottomans were Turks, not Palestinians or Palestinians Arabs.
So what do you mean when you say 'belong'

France belongs to the French. Canada belongs to the Canadians. Palestine belongs to the Palestinians. What part of this confuses you?

Nice duck.
The land belongs to whoever is ruling it at any point in time. You can argue that the Palestinians Territories (Gaza Strip and West Bank) belongs to the Palestinians, but Israel belongs to the Israelis, just like you said France belongs to the French and Canada to the Canadians . You cannot really dispute that

OK, the Israelis can have everything inside Israel's borders.

 

[toastman]

France belongs to the French. Canada belongs to the Canadians. Palestine belongs to the Palestinians. What part of this confuses you?

Nice duck.
The land belongs to whoever is ruling it at any point in time. You can argue that the Palestinians Territories (Gaza Strip and West Bank) belongs to the Palestinians, but Israel belongs to the Israelis, just like you said France belongs to the French and Canada to the Canadians . You cannot really dispute that

OK, the Israelis can have everything inside Israel's borders.

What about all the land from the Nile to the Euphrates ?