More bitter/disgusting: December '04 liberals vs December '12 conservatives?

[Soggy in NOLA]

I personally think the far left were more insufferable in 2000 than in 2004.
But even then they didn't annoy me as much as the 2012 far right.

I like the thread. Good to be reminded of how good we got it.

Well, I haven't yet seen anything like Code Pink from the far right. They haven't interrupted official government meetings yet as badly as Code Pink. And that nonsense with the woman trying to handcuff Cheney...or Rumsfeld, whichever, nothing like that has happened on the right that I've seen so far.

So, if we are keeping score, Id say right now the far left element in 2004 was a bit more extreme and whacko, HOWEVER, I think the panic/rage element of the right in 2012 is more widespread. It doesnt quite have the intensity of the left's in 2004, but I think it is more widespread. Of course, one could say the lefts was more widespread in 2004, but the whacko element was more apparent and covered more, thus, giving it the image of being smaller but crazier than the right wing nuts today.

Interesting though. We'll see if something like Code Pink emerges from the right wing in the next 4 years. I dont think the Tea Party is the equivalent of Code Pink though.

screamimg "you lie" to a presdient who has not lied

Barack Obumbo wouldn't know the truth if it landed on him.

 

[Truthmatters]

Tell us Bucs90, what portion of your income do you pay in taxes?

It depends how much shopping and driving I do every 2 weeks. I have state, local, SS, etc. And gas tax, sales tax, hospitality tax (restaurants/hotels). So, you see, its impossible to give a flat number when we all do various amounts of shopping, driving, eating, etc, with each paycheck.

Why does it matter? I work. I pay what the government says I must pay. I do my citizen duty. If you are asking if I pay as much as a millionaire does, then no, I dont. Im not rich. So mathematically, I would not.

I'm talking about what percentage of your income you pay in taxes.

I ask because it's very easy to sit back and tell people to shut up and stop crying about taxes, when in reality you don't know what it's like to fork over a big portion of your income to the government.

In other words, if you're not doing the walking, you're not qualified to do the talking.

how much do you pay?

 

[Truthmatters]

look at them!

all they can do is say shit like "Obummer is stupid and I dont like him".


You people refuse facts at every turn.


You ONLY believe the things you wnt to believe.


Your the dumbest ffucking Americans who walk the earth.

IF you are actaully Americans.

I think some of you right wing posters might be paid by AQ to try and bring this country down

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Okay. Brace yourself. Here is the letter from Jefferson to Madison I promised. Jefferson spoke of the evils of the concentration of wealth he saw in France, and how it was imperative our own country legislatively ensured that never happened here.

Obama: "For we, the people, understand that our country cannot succeed when a shrinking few do very well and a growing many barely make it."

So, yes, that is grounded in our founding principles. Absolutely yes.

Yes, you are a sycophantic Obamaroid.

There is very little resemblance at all in the Forbes 400 today than 30, 20 or even 10 years ago.

You snorted the Obama KoolAid straight out of the can.

You really do consume the bogus talking points with gusto, eh?

You have not been paying attention. Economic mobility has considerably slowed over the past several decades.

Former Senator Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, a Republican candidate for president, warned this fall that movement “up into the middle income is actually greater, the mobility in Europe, than it is in America.” National Review, a conservative thought leader, wrote that “most Western European and English-speaking nations have higher rates of mobility.” Even Representative Paul D. Ryan, a Wisconsin Republican who argues that overall mobility remains high, recently wrote that “mobility from the very bottom up” is “where the United States lags behind.”

Even the Right bemoans our economic mobility is not what it used to be!

Addressing your Forbes 400 meme:

Despite frequent references to the United States as a classless society, about 62 percent of Americans (male and female) raised in the top fifth of incomes stay in the top two-fifths, according to research by the Economic Mobility Project of the Pew Charitable Trusts.

It seems your ignorance really is bliss. You are especially ignorant of our Founding Fathers' principles, which Obama precisely echoed in that part you called "Socialism".

62% staying in the "top fifth" is supposed to mean what in your demented world, that there's a 1% club that does not allow others in?

Was that supposed to support your idiotic thoughts?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Yes, you are a sycophantic Obamaroid.

There is very little resemblance at all in the Forbes 400 today than 30, 20 or even 10 years ago.

You snorted the Obama KoolAid straight out of the can.

shouldn't you be blowing your Reagan blow up job?

The UnConservatives are trying to ignore the fact that several officials from the Reagan administration have disowned them.

David Stockman?

Who the fuck cares?

 

[ZimothyTahn]

Tell us Bucs90, what portion of your income do you pay in taxes?

It depends how much shopping and driving I do every 2 weeks. I have state, local, SS, etc. And gas tax, sales tax, hospitality tax (restaurants/hotels). So, you see, its impossible to give a flat number when we all do various amounts of shopping, driving, eating, etc, with each paycheck.

Why does it matter? I work. I pay what the government says I must pay. I do my citizen duty. If you are asking if I pay as much as a millionaire does, then no, I dont. Im not rich. So mathematically, I would not.

I'm talking about what percentage of your income you pay in taxes.

I ask because it's very easy to sit back and tell people to shut up and stop crying about taxes, when in reality you don't know what it's like to fork over a big portion of your income to the government.

In other words, if you're not doing the walking, you're not qualified to do the talking.

except that in america, punchy, we do things a little differently. we all get to speak our mind. and frankly, the gross level to which red staters will suck off the rich is far more troubling to me than someone in the working class insisting that those same rich people actually pay taxes at all. (outside of the use taxes bucs90 already referred to)

so fuck you, pal, we'll continue to exercise our first amendment rights and you'll continue to stroke your cock over your second amendment ones. mkthx.

 

[chikenwing]

47% who don't pay federal income taxes. This is the culmination of one of Jefferson's dreams.

I bet he had a slightly different number in mind.While we should be caring for the ones that can't for themselves,we have encouraged generational welfare that dream number is much lower.

 

[g5000]

47% who don't pay federal income taxes. This is the culmination of one of Jefferson's dreams.

I bet he had a slightly different number in mind.While we should be caring for the ones that can't for themselves,we have encouraged generational welfare that dream number is much lower.

I bet that number was much bigger than 47% in Jefferson's dream.

Read his letter.

 

[bucs90]

Tell us Bucs90, what portion of your income do you pay in taxes?

It depends how much shopping and driving I do every 2 weeks. I have state, local, SS, etc. And gas tax, sales tax, hospitality tax (restaurants/hotels). So, you see, its impossible to give a flat number when we all do various amounts of shopping, driving, eating, etc, with each paycheck.

Why does it matter? I work. I pay what the government says I must pay. I do my citizen duty. If you are asking if I pay as much as a millionaire does, then no, I dont. Im not rich. So mathematically, I would not.

I'm talking about what percentage of your income you pay in taxes.

I ask because it's very easy to sit back and tell people to shut up and stop crying about taxes, when in reality you don't know what it's like to fork over a big portion of your income to the government.

In other words, if you're not doing the walking, you're not qualified to do the talking.

And I answered: I dont know. The % of my money that ends up going to taxes depends on how much of that money I use on grocery, gas, power bill and cable bill (franshise fees imposed by local govt), etc, etc.

You see....lets say a man making $3,000,000 pays $1,700,000 in taxes. He's left with $1,300,000 to "get by" on.

But a man making $45,000 a year...and paying $18,000 in taxes (for example) has $27,000 to "get by" on.

So you are saying the man getting by on 1.3 million has a gripe and the guy getting by on 27K a year should shut the fuck up, because he doesnt know what its like to have a big chunk of his money taken.

See why the GOP message doesnt register?

Yes, I pay a lower % than a millionaire. And I'll never know what it is like to have $500,000 taken from me in taxes. And THAT millionaire will never know what its like to scrape by barely making the power bill and grocery bill, and having to tell your significant other that you cant go to Outback for an anniversary dinner because the money is tight right now.

So anyone who is bitching about having 50% of a multi-million dollar salary taken can go suck a ****, because I dont sympathize with them. I'd LOVE to have that "problem".

 

[Stephanie]

It depends how much shopping and driving I do every 2 weeks. I have state, local, SS, etc. And gas tax, sales tax, hospitality tax (restaurants/hotels). So, you see, its impossible to give a flat number when we all do various amounts of shopping, driving, eating, etc, with each paycheck.

Why does it matter? I work. I pay what the government says I must pay. I do my citizen duty. If you are asking if I pay as much as a millionaire does, then no, I dont. Im not rich. So mathematically, I would not.

I'm talking about what percentage of your income you pay in taxes.

I ask because it's very easy to sit back and tell people to shut up and stop crying about taxes, when in reality you don't know what it's like to fork over a big portion of your income to the government.

In other words, if you're not doing the walking, you're not qualified to do the talking.

And I answered: I dont know. The % of my money that ends up going to taxes depends on how much of that money I use on grocery, gas, power bill and cable bill (franshise fees imposed by local govt), etc, etc.

You see....lets say a man making $3,000,000 pays $1,700,000 in taxes. He's left with $1,300,000 to "get by" on.

But a man making $45,000 a year...and paying $18,000 in taxes (for example) has $27,000 to "get by" on.

So you are saying the man getting by on 1.3 million has a gripe and the guy getting by on 27K a year should shut the fuck up, because he doesnt know what its like to have a big chunk of his money taken.

See why the GOP message doesnt register?

Yes, I pay a lower % than a millionaire. And I'll never know what it is like to have $500,000 taken from me in taxes. And THAT millionaire will never know what its like to scrape by barely making the power bill and grocery bill, and having to tell your significant other that you cant go to Outback for an anniversary dinner because the money is tight right now.

So anyone who is bitching about having 50% of a multi-million dollar salary taken can go suck a ****, because I dont sympathize with them. I'd LOVE to have that "problem".[/QUOTE]

this says a lot of you, that green eyed monster..that is the problem in this day and age and why we are where we are at as a country..

a very sad generation has been raised...

 

[bucs90]

This is amazing. All arguments boil down to "How much do you pay in taxes". To the far right, the ONLY measure of a man's worth is how much money they have and/or pay in taxes. No more. It means NOTHING what a man actually contributes in work and effort and personal contribution in non-monetary forms to society. ONLY cash money bling bling matters. I swear I thought the Bible warned about that type of attitude. Guess not.

A guy making 500K to $1,000,000 a year wants me to feel sorry for him for how much he pays in taxes, while I post from free WiFi at Starbucks....because the bills got high this month and had to scrap the Comcast internet at home.

Sorry. I dont feel bad for anyone who pays that much in taxes. If you are one of those people, it means God has blessed you, along with your hard work, and you have been very fortunate to live a wealthy lifestyle. The government needs to limit waste and use ALL OF OUR taxes more wisely. You dont deserve massive tax hikes. But I DO NOT feel sorry for you simply because you pay a higher % of taxes than most others.

 

[bucs90]

Lets sum it up:

A person who is not a federal income tax payer (aka, not rich) can NOT instantly change that.
A person who IS a federal income tax payer (aka, rich) CAN instantly change that.

If you wealthy guys think we have it so good not paying fed income taxes...well, feel free to join us anytime. You can instantly get out of that tax.

 

[Stephanie]

Lets sum it up:

A person who is not a federal income tax payer (aka, not rich) can NOT instantly change that.
A person who IS a federal income tax payer (aka, rich) CAN instantly change that.

If you wealthy guys think we have it so good not paying fed income taxes...well, feel free to join us anytime. You can instantly get out of that tax.

stop whining already

 

[Uncensored2008]

Actually, I think you have to go all the way back to the 1968 ultra-Liberals to find the political complement to the 2012 UnConservatives.

Right, you leftists were the model of class and moderation under Bush.

Sure, you disagreed on policy, but you leftist always kept it classy.

Thoughtful and pondering in your well articulated arguments

Ensuring civility was observed at all times.

Never stooping to crass names

And for Obama's sake, you leftists always protected the children..

 

[OODA_Loop]

But I DO NOT feel sorry for you simply because you pay a higher % of taxes than most others.

Everyone should be taxed equally on their primary income.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Are you at all familiar with Obama's speech?

G5000? Not as familiar as he is with Obama's jism.

I'm just sayin...

 

[bucs90]

But I DO NOT feel sorry for you simply because you pay a higher % of taxes than most others.

Everyone should be taxed equally on their primary income.

So...is it fair that when I buy a tank of gas...and a rich guy buys a tank of gas....Im taxed at a higher % of my income for that same 12 gallons of gas that the rich guy pays? Should he have to pay the same % of his income in gas taxes?

We could do your idea. And we'd probably lose a lot of our military funding, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. You'd also lose a lot of local services, like police, fire, etc.

Without police funding, for example, who is gonna stop the thugs from rampaging through your gated community?

You rich guys do pay a lot more in taxes. And, you get a lot of protection and a civil society to get and stay rich in. Wealth has a price: Taxes and hard work. You want wealth, you pay both prices. The payoff, however, is pretty damn good isn't it? Being a rich man in America, one of the best ways a human can live in world history. Whats the problem?

 

[bucs90]

Ya know, looking at those pics, I'd say the left in 2004 was far nastier than the current right wing. The right wing is angry, pissed, bitter, etc, etc, etc. But I haven't seen anything like those signs above. Stupid hippies.

 

[EriktheRed]

I was quite bitter in '04.


I'm not bitter now. In fact, threads like this make me pretty happy.

 

[bucs90]

I definitely think we are in a historic shift in American politics. A huge cultural and generational change is underway, and Im not sure anyone knows what it'll end up like in 2020, 2030, etc, etc. Ideals can pop up and evolve so fast now with technology, people can change their mind and research stuff so much more quickly.