Mongolian BLITZKRIEG

[Quasar44]

Sure he killed about 40 million but it's estimated that Genghis Khan has ~40 million descendants today. He did a lot of killing but he also did a lot of raping. So maybe it kinda evens out after 800 years.

I think one battle had German, Polish and Austrian knights is super heavy armor taking on the super light wearing Mongolians. The M being so smart would FAKE A RETREAT , this caused the European heavy cavlary to pursue but it was a set up.
Once they tired out- the M would smash them

 

[Quasar44]

The M would often smash Turkish tribes to pieces
However, when the smashed and Sacked Baghdad - it would cause many Turkish tribes to leave the city and they would later reunite to form a new super clan. One day this super clan would form the early Ottoman Empire.

 

[Quasar44]

The Mongolians took THE BEST from every society and merged what worked to aid their empire.

 

[Kruska]

Echoes of a Prehistoric Horror

Retroactive history would conclude that the mass murder initiated by Genghis Khan wasn't the first Mongol invasion. It would fit that there was another one around 4000 BC that drove White people out of the Caucasus Mountains into Europe, Sumeria, Iran, and India.

That is indeed very possible - since there must have been a huge significant impact/issue that caused this massive migration.

Today it is still being speculated if the Huns derive from the Mongols or rather the Mongols derive from the Huns. The so called Tungus Barbarians are the first nomadic tribe mentioned in Chinese records dating to around 1500B.C. and had been a constant threat to today's China, Korea and Tibet area. Linguists seem to agree that the Tungus language is related to the Turkic people, but not to Mongolian. It is therefore being speculated that the Tungus nomads are the same folks termed by the West as Huns.

Excavations in Xinjiang have shown evidence of a Indo-European related civilization existing in the time-frame 3500B.C. and deteriorating/vanishing at around 1000 B.C. The most interesting part in regard to those very well preserved mummies findings were their clothing and weapons. Pointed hats, Celtic like checkered woven trousers and long straight swords. These people (according to archeological findings) had migrated towards the West - most likely right into Europe (which would very well fit into the timeframe of Celtic tribes appearing archeological in Europe (2000 -1500 B.C.), and very well also into China/Korea.

Due to the "Han China" bull, research and reports in regards to China are very limited since it wouldn't fit well into the Han doctrine. However findings in regards to the Terracotta army and the previous two North/Western Dynasties - have also produced evidence of these more Indo-European looking people, having come into China at around 1000 B.C. to 500B.C. Which could explain the Xinjiang Jade findings in Shandong and Korea, dated to be from around 1200 B.C.

 

[Kruska]

The M would often smash Turkish tribes to pieces
However, when the smashed and Sacked Baghdad - it would cause many Turkish tribes to leave the city and they would later reunite to form a new super clan. One day this super clan would form the early Ottoman Empire.

Those people who had murdered off and devastated Syria and Iraq in 1230-60 were the Mongols - and the people at the time in Baghdad were not Turkic - but mostly Arabic. Those Oğuz Turkic tribes - aka (Seljuk), that had previously overrun and occupied today's Iran - then drove off the Mongol rulers and elites in 1260 - whilst assimilating Mongol warriors into their ranks. terming themselves as the Abbasid Caliphate (aka Saladin - actually being a Kurd) And being in competition with the Mameluke Dynasty in Egypt. And the vast majority of those living in Syria and Iraq were still Arabs.

Again you are referring to Timurlane of Samarkand, and not Mongols when it comes to the destruction of the Abbasid Caliphate in around 1350 and the starting rise of the Turkic Ottomans, the Turkic Ak Koyunlu Empire, Quara Koyunlu, the Turkic Timurid Empire from 1330 onward and another dozen Turkic ruled nations - e.g. the Nogai. The former Mongol Sultanate of Dehli was then also taken over by Turkic tribes - resulting into the Mogul Empire.

Aside from the later Ottomans - the Turkic problem was their minority amongst those they conquered - thus only occupying the throne and important government positions incl. especially their respective military force - they were never anywhere near being a majority or a unified people - that is also the reason why all these Turkic Empires started to crumble from 1450 onward leaving only the Ottoman till 1918 and Mogul Empire till 1750.

Are you actually aware that the e.g. Chinese or Koreans never referred to those Nomads as Mongols? They were called Xiongnu as a whole, and by their individual tribe names.
Mongol derives from the Iranian/Persian term Muhgol - factually encompassing all Turkic tribes - from the 18th century onward the Europeans then generalized this as Mongols.

And in Europe (in contemporary records) they were factually called Huns (see Battle of Lechfeld in 955, or in the 12-13th century simply Huns & Tartars.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

That is indeed very possible - since there must have been a huge significant impact/issue that caused this massive migration.

Today it is still being speculated if the Huns derive from the Mongols or rather the Mongols derive from the Huns. The so called Tungus Barbarians are the first nomadic tribe mentioned in Chinese records dating to around 1500B.C. and had been a constant threat to today's China, Korea and Tibet area. Linguists seem to agree that the Tungus language is related to the Turkic people, but not to Mongolian. It is therefore being speculated that the Tungus nomads are the same folks termed by the West as Huns.

Excavations in Xinjiang have shown evidence of a Indo-European related civilization existing in the time-frame 3500B.C. and deteriorating/vanishing at around 1000 B.C. The most interesting part in regard to those very well preserved mummies findings were their clothing and weapons. Pointed hats, Celtic like checkered woven trousers and long straight swords. These people (according to archeological findings) had migrated towards the West - most likely right into Europe (which would very well fit into the timeframe of Celtic tribes appearing archeological in Europe (2000 -1500 B.C.), and very well also into China/Korea.

Due to the "Han China" bull, research and reports in regards to China are very limited since it wouldn't fit well into the Han doctrine. However findings in regards to the Terracotta army and the previous two North/Western Dynasties - have also produced evidence of these more Indo-European looking people, having come into China at around 1000 B.C. to 500B.C. Which could explain the Xinjiang Jade findings in Shandong and Korea, dated to be from around 1200 B.C.

Peking Man Pocahontases

The American Indians are related to the Mongol thrill-killers. Originating in China like the Neanderthal did in Europe, they kept on getting pushed north by more evolved species until they lucked out in going on the lam to the Americas, where they continued their incessant intertribal genocide, necessitated by the fact that they were mentally incapable of developing the resources and had to loot and kill to avoid extinction.

 

[Kruska]

Peking Man Pocahontases

The American Indians are related to the Mongol thrill-killers. Originating in China like the Neanderthal did in Europe, they kept on getting pushed north by more evolved species until they lucked out in going on the lam to the Americas, where they continued their incessant intertribal genocide, necessitated by the fact that they were mentally incapable of developing the resources and had to loot and kill to avoid extinction.

These "Mongol" termed folks - no one knows their actual name or ethnicity did not originate from China (at least not to my knowledge or any confirmed findings) But had settled (originated?) in the Siberian and Alaskan areas. Fact is however that these "Proto-Siberian/Alaskans" were ALL nomadic and also did not change that behavior in regards to the Plains-Indians right into the 19-20th century. In contra to those Red-Indians having settlements (when the Europeans arrived) and engaging in agriculture in the Eastern Part of today's USA - and e.g. Aztec/Maya and the Pueblo folks in the New-Mexico vicinity.

Personally I am not much in support of this 20,000 thousand years ago - one time Bering-straits migration drive, but rather that several migration movements occurred via the Bering-strait and by those folks already roaming around in Alaska at that time. With the Plains-Indians maybe deriving from a last migration drive from around 4000B.C. stemming from Alaska/Canada.
The second migration route seems to be the Pacific Coastal Route Hypothesis - this could also explain the racial/ethnic differences of Siberian/Alaskan folks to e.g. Amazon Indians, or those in the South-American Andes.

To my knowledge the oldest archeological findings in regards to settlement and agriculture in China are those of the Hemudu culture in today's Northern Zhejiang province - about a three hours drive South-West of Shanghai. Earliest findings are estimated to be from 8000B.C. and more conclusive findings are from around 6000B.C. onward incl. the cultivation of rice. Findings from the same culture have also been found-excavated in prehistoric sites in the Philippines, Polynesia, Micronesia, and Indonesia, the sites that are about 1,000 years younger than the Hemudu sites. Among scholars, the Hemudu Culture is considered a key chapter of the prehistoric cultures in the western Pacific region.

The Majiabang culture - located 2h drive more north-West of Shanghai - more or less started of in the same timeframe.
A number of building remains from that period have been discovered so far, including wooden columns, the walls between the columns made of weaved reeds and painted with soil, roofs formed by reeds, bamboo and dry grasses, and the floor constructed with compact earth, mixed with gravels and shells. Most interestingly, there were even drainage ditches around some of the building sites found. It proves the traditional Chinese timber frame structure with tusk tenon joints had already been developed 7,000 years ago in the Majiabang cultural sphere.

It might therefore be very possible that those of the Hemudu culture, their forefathers - or their offspring's continued migrated from the Pacific towards South-America via boat. Explaining the ethnically obvious difference between Amazon Indians, those of the Andes regions, compared to those in Central and North America.

Anyway, there is still a lot of research and excavations to be done - in order to maybe find the conclusive evidence as to who and how North and South America was settled and by whom.

 

[Kruska]

I think one battle had German, Polish and Austrian knights is super heavy armor taking on the super light wearing Mongolians. The M being so smart would FAKE A RETREAT , this caused the European heavy cavlary to pursue but it was a set up.
Once they tired out- the M would smash them

I think you are underestimating Mongol warfare abilities a bit.
They didn't just have fast/light arrow shooting cavalry - but also heavy cavalry, that was extremely effective when attacking the Chinese and all other armies.
Their most devastating weapon however was rocket artillery - originating from Chinese technology - but having been better, further developed in today's Afghanistan and then been extensively used by the Mongols.

 

[rampart]

Mongolian Blitzkreig was perhaps the greatest in the history of the WORLD until the NAZIS.

They literally conquered all of Eastern Europe in a few years
They Destroyed and conquered the powerful Muslim World in a few years
They conquered all of N. China with little problems.

They truly were the greatest Army of all time until the Germans. Maybe Romans then Germans then Mongolians

They used lighting speed and movement with their deadly long range archers.

Lucky for Europe: the Mongolians viewed them as so backwards it was not worth their time.

They were the gods of psyhcological warfare and used it often to scare their opponents to death

psychological warfare = "terrorism" and WE are the masters.

 

[Quasar44]

psychological warfare = "terrorism" and WE are the masters.

they would often allow a few survivors to live. This was a way to SPREAD FEAR to the next PLACE.
I think they even catapulpted HEADS too their enemies

Mongolians generally were very fair and allowed you to surrender.
They generally allowed people to practice their religion and live freely as long as they paid up.

 

[rampart]

These "Mongol" termed folks - no one knows their actual name or ethnicity did not originate from China (at least not to my knowledge or any confirmed findings) But had settled (originated?) in the Siberian and Alaskan areas. Fact is however that these "Proto-Siberian/Alaskans" were ALL nomadic and also did not change that behavior in regards to the Plains-Indians right into the 19-20th century. In contra to those Red-Indians having settlements (when the Europeans arrived) and engaging in agriculture in the Eastern Part of today's USA - and e.g. Aztec/Maya and the Pueblo folks in the New-Mexico vicinity.

Personally I am not much in support of this 20,000 thousand years ago - one time Bering-straits migration drive, but rather that several migration movements occurred via the Bering-strait and by those folks already roaming around in Alaska at that time. With the Plains-Indians maybe deriving from a last migration drive from around 4000B.C. stemming from Alaska/Canada.
The second migration route seems to be the Pacific Coastal Route Hypothesis - this could also explain the racial/ethnic differences of Siberian/Alaskan folks to e.g. Amazon Indians, or those in the South-American Andes.

To my knowledge the oldest archeological findings in regards to settlement and agriculture in China are those of the Hemudu culture in today's Northern Zhejiang province - about a three hours drive South-West of Shanghai. Earliest findings are estimated to be from 8000B.C. and more conclusive findings are from around 6000B.C. onward incl. the cultivation of rice. Findings from the same culture have also been found-excavated in prehistoric sites in the Philippines, Polynesia, Micronesia, and Indonesia, the sites that are about 1,000 years younger than the Hemudu sites. Among scholars, the Hemudu Culture is considered a key chapter of the prehistoric cultures in the western Pacific region.

The Majiabang culture - located 2h drive more north-West of Shanghai - more or less started of in the same timeframe.
A number of building remains from that period have been discovered so far, including wooden columns, the walls between the columns made of weaved reeds and painted with soil, roofs formed by reeds, bamboo and dry grasses, and the floor constructed with compact earth, mixed with gravels and shells. Most interestingly, there were even drainage ditches around some of the building sites found. It proves the traditional Chinese timber frame structure with tusk tenon joints had already been developed 7,000 years ago in the Majiabang cultural sphere.

It might therefore be very possible that those of the Hemudu culture, their forefathers - or their offspring's continued migrated from the Pacific towards South-America via boat. Explaining the ethnically obvious difference between Amazon Indians, those of the Andes regions, compared to those in Central and North America.

Anyway, there is still a lot of research and excavations to be done - in order to maybe find the conclusive evidence as to who and how North and South America was settled and by whom.

humans probably evolved close to the water (erect posture, floating breasts , monkeys do not have a fat layer etc) when the ice melted (about 8-12 k years ago) much of our civilization, located near rivers and coastlines, must have been deluged. we, or more likely evolved roaches, will eventually be able io find these antediluvian cities.

 

[Kruska]

humans probably evolved close to the water (erect posture, floating breasts , monkeys do not have a fat layer etc) when the ice melted (about 8-12 k years ago) much of our civilization, located near rivers and coastlines, must have been deluged. we, or more likely evolved roaches, will eventually be able io find these antediluvian cities.

The Homo Sapiens (starting around 30.000 B.C. wasn't a monkey.
Wherever an advanced human civilization sprung up (at least those that are known sofar) - from around 12,000 B.C. onward, they are ALL along a coastal river or river delta. Simply due to Humans in growing numbers requiring a steady supply of Coca Cola - ahh., fresh water. Fresh water in turn leads to fishing and agriculture - aka a permanent settlement.

 

[Kruska]

Mongolians generally were very fair and allowed you to surrender.

As long they got their loot or $ demand - yes. But that applies to any conqueror attacker. However in vast majority they simply preferred to ransack and destroy the place - therefore knowingly causing a desired disruption in the civilization they attacked - waiting to be rebuilt and then ransacking the place again - this is what they did in vast majority, since they needed a constant income of loot/bounty to pay off the loyalty of their warriors and clans.

They generally allowed people to practice their religion and live freely as long as they paid up.

You sure? the respective clans or Khanats only allowed for their single respective religion - exception only being the Yuan Dynasty in China.
It is one of the main reasons why they constantly attacked each other - different clans different religions.

During Genghis Khan - more or less 100% of Mongols adhered to Shamanism and Tibetan Buddhism (Yellow-hat), this hasn't really changed till today in today's Mongolia. The Yuan Dynasty factually caused the decline of Shamanism amongst Mongols.
Those Mongol clans who had plundered their way into the Middle-East adopted all kind of facets in regards to Islam. therefore constant infighting and again murdering each other off with the Turkic tribes and their Islam facets coming into play.

 

[Quasar44]

The Homo Sapiens (starting around 30.000 B.C. wasn't a monkey.
Wherever an advanced human civilization sprung up (at least those that are known sofar) - from around 12,000 B.C. onward, they are ALL along a coastal river or river delta. Simply due to Humans in growing numbers requiring a steady supply of Coca Cola - ahh., fresh water. Fresh water in turn leads to fishing and agriculture - aka a permanent settlement.

I think Homo sapiens been around up to 200,000 yrs.
Your 30,000 is incorrect.

 

[Quasar44]

If not for the Black Death, the Mongolians could have ruled the planet for another couple of centuries or longer.
They also had the most bad azz Bow and Arrow on the planet with insane range.

It was their lighting fast cavalary that was awesome

 

[Kruska]

If not for the Black Death, the Mongolians could have ruled the planet for another couple of centuries or longer.
They also had the most bad azz Bow and Arrow on the planet with insane range.

It was their lighting fast cavalary that was awesome

I already stated to you - the Black death occurred 90 years after the Mongol Empire did not exist anymore, (in 1330 in China and in 1350 in Europe and the Middle-East. And it's Khanate remnants aside from The Golden Horde had all been conquered and controlled by Turkic tribes from 1250 onward.
Furthermore the black death did NOT disrupt Mongol power in China aka the Yuan Dynasty - but constant infighting between the various Mongol tribes and clans enabled the Chinese (hit by the black death just as Mongols) to kick them out and to form/enact the Ming Dynasty.

As such the black death devastated those Turkic nomads, aka Timurlane, who had overrun and occupied previous Mongol raided territory. And it is basically only the Turkic tribes - recorded in Arab texts and those in China by the Yuan Dynasty, that are able to forward estimates or numbers. Whilst there are no Mongol records as to estimates at all - since those buggers never had the required administration organization to follow up on such records.

As for Homo Sapiens:
There is Homo Erectus - followed by Homo Sapiens, Sapiens (estimated at 160,000 - 90,000 years ago - then followed by Homo Sapiens.
Neanderthals are suspected to be a Homo Sapiens, Sapiens subspecies, and went extinct around 30,000 - 25,000 years ago - leaving just us Homo Sapiens around.

And early modern human civilization - defined by, permanent settlements, (not caves) classification of tools and artifacts starts at around 15,000-12,000 B.C. with the oldest to me known findings at today's northern Turkey/Black sea coast, being dated at around 13,000 - 12,000 B.C.

 

[Quasar44]

I already stated to you - the Black death occurred 90 years after the Mongol Empire did not exist anymore, (in 1330 in China and in 1350 in Europe and the Middle-East. And it's Khanate remnants aside from The Golden Horde had all been conquered and controlled by Turkic tribes from 1250 onward.
Furthermore the black death did NOT disrupt Mongol power in China aka the Yuan Dynasty - but constant infighting between the various Mongol tribes and clans enabled the Chinese (hit by the black death just as Mongols) to kick them out and to form/enact the Ming Dynasty.

As such the black death devastated those Turkic nomads, aka Timurlane, who had overrun and occupied previous Mongol raided territory. And it is basically only the Turkic tribes - recorded in Arab texts and those in China by the Yuan Dynasty, that are able to forward estimates or numbers. Whilst there are no Mongol records as to estimates at all - since those buggers never had the required administration organization to follow up on such records.

As for Homo Sapiens:
There is Homo Erectus - followed by Homo Sapiens, Sapiens (estimated at 160,000 - 90,000 years ago - then followed by Homo Sapiens.
Neanderthals are suspected to be a Homo Sapiens, Sapiens subspecies, and went extinct around 30,000 - 25,000 years ago - leaving just us Homo Sapiens around.

And early modern human civilization - defined by, permanent settlements, (not caves) classification of tools and artifacts starts at around 15,000-12,000 B.C. with the oldest to me known findings at today's northern Turkey/Black sea coast, being dated at around 13,000 - 12,000 B.C.

If you know so much then are ashkenazi Jews - Turks , Levant or euro ??

 

[Kruska]

If you know so much then are ashkenazi Jews - Turks , Levant or euro ??

I am not very familiar with the Jewish culture migration streams after the Romans, massacred them and took them out.

AFAIK Ashkenazi derives from medieval Germany - whereby Ashkenaz in Hebrew means Germany, as such Jewish people living in Germany.
How they got there, via Rome or Spain or via the Caucasus I would need to check up in the internet, since I do not posses literature in that regard.

 

[rampart]

I already stated to you - the Black death occurred 90 years after the Mongol Empire did not exist anymore, (in 1330 in China and in 1350 in Europe and the Middle-East. And it's Khanate remnants aside from The Golden Horde had all been conquered and controlled by Turkic tribes from 1250 onward.
Furthermore the black death did NOT disrupt Mongol power in China aka the Yuan Dynasty - but constant infighting between the various Mongol tribes and clans enabled the Chinese (hit by the black death just as Mongols) to kick them out and to form/enact the Ming Dynasty.

As such the black death devastated those Turkic nomads, aka Timurlane, who had overrun and occupied previous Mongol raided territory. And it is basically only the Turkic tribes - recorded in Arab texts and those in China by the Yuan Dynasty, that are able to forward estimates or numbers. Whilst there are no Mongol records as to estimates at all - since those buggers never had the required administration organization to follow up on such records.

As for Homo Sapiens:
There is Homo Erectus - followed by Homo Sapiens, Sapiens (estimated at 160,000 - 90,000 years ago - then followed by Homo Sapiens.
Neanderthals are suspected to be a Homo Sapiens, Sapiens subspecies, and went extinct around 30,000 - 25,000 years ago - leaving just us Homo Sapiens around.

And early modern human civilization - defined by, permanent settlements, (not caves) classification of tools and artifacts starts at around 15,000-12,000 B.C. with the oldest to me known findings at today's northern Turkey/Black sea coast, being dated at around 13,000 - 12,000 B.C.

that timeline seems reasonable, maybe the first homo 200,000 to300,000 . bce?

gobeki tepe in anatolia seems to have been founded around 9000 bce, at the end of the ice age. may still be considered the first city. i'm sure that as we continue to dig (and dive) we will find older.

i'm quite sure Kruska agrees we'd have to go back several million more years to find an ancestor that might be a "monkey," but i'm not sure if we know when "australopithicus" diverged from "pan," or when we lesser apes diverged from "gorilla"

important for young folks : we did not know much of this when i was in school. pick a good magazine like national geographic or scientific american. the photos are astounding and the stories are well written.

 

[Kruska]

that timeline seems reasonable, maybe the first homo 200,000 to300,000 . bce?

Yes - presently the latest findings date to around 300,000 to 400,000 BC

gobeki tepe in anatolia seems to have been founded around 9000 bce, at the end of the ice age. may still be considered the first city. i'm sure that as we continue to dig (and dive) we will find older.

Göbekli Tepe in Turkey and Tell Qaramel in Syria (both stone structure and stone carvings) are estimated to be around 11,000 BC and Monte Verde in Chile (Wooden structure) even at 13,000 BC, several others (stone structures) in Egypt and Iran are also dated to around 10,000 BC.

i'm quite sure Kruska agrees we'd have to go back several million more years to find an ancestor that might be a "monkey," but i'm not sure if we know when "australopithicus" diverged from "pan," or when we lesser apes diverged from "gorilla"

Maybe even more - but personally I do not believe in an evolution from monkey to human - but rather some specimen/s developing into monkeys and humans separately.
Whilst maybe in the first couple of million years, there wasn't really much difference.

important for young folks : we did not know much of this when i was in school. pick a good magazine like national geographic or scientific american. the photos are astounding and the stories are well written.

Yes, especially since the 1990 there are constant findings that "discredit" or question previous theories. When I went to school it was taught that humans originating from Africa started wandering about 100,000 to 140,000 years ago, and in 2019 findings in a cave in Greece dated remains back to 240,000 years, whilst around the same time findings in Morocco are dated at 300,000 years.

There is still loads to be found.