Minority kids are stupid

[flacaltenn]

That’s amazing... kudos to your daughter for doing an excellent job grooming our youth!

Sadly, that is the appropriate word when five year olds are learning the Gettysburg address and memorizing state capitols. "Grooming", not learning. Just memorizing and spewing, that's all. They cannot process that information. They do not understand how long ago one year was, let alone the Civil War. They do not understand how far away the next town is, let alone the next state.

Mac this is no remark on what kind of teacher your daughter is. She is probably having to teach in the iron grip of that Charter school and so it is. She is probably a phenomenal teacher. But that curriculum is not good for learning and ESPECIALLY not 21st century learning. I know that sounds like "liberal code buzz" or whatever but it's true. We don't need people who can memorize stuff that is meaningless to them.

We need people who can make meaning out of what was meaningless before. THAT take genius creativity. You don't get that by teaching five year olds the Gettysburg address.

I sense a terminal case of "charter school" envy here. Just because it doesn't fit the developmental models that your ed school pushed and the unions insist on..

It's a kick start for kids who CAN capitalize on the extra stimulation and does no HARM at that age for kids who aren't motivated by their early success..

As "they" say... Don't knock it til you've tried it and documented the results. And if there's one thing that American needs --- it IS results..

WTF is HEADSTART and PRE-K if NOT attempts to "jump-start" their little cranial engines?

 

[SweetSue92]

When it comes to education, it appears that one end of the spectrum would like to see Bible study interspersed between Sean Hannity podcasts, and the other end would like to see sensitivity training interspersed between microaggression awareness meetings.

For our kid's sake, and for our country's sake, I'm so happy schools like my daughter's exist.
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No you're getting challenged and so resorted to politics.

 

[SweetSue92]

That’s amazing... kudos to your daughter for doing an excellent job grooming our youth!

Sadly, that is the appropriate word when five year olds are learning the Gettysburg address and memorizing state capitols. "Grooming", not learning. Just memorizing and spewing, that's all. They cannot process that information. They do not understand how long ago one year was, let alone the Civil War. They do not understand how far away the next town is, let alone the next state.

Mac this is no remark on what kind of teacher your daughter is. She is probably having to teach in the iron grip of that Charter school and so it is. She is probably a phenomenal teacher. But that curriculum is not good for learning and ESPECIALLY not 21st century learning. I know that sounds like "liberal code buzz" or whatever but it's true. We don't need people who can memorize stuff that is meaningless to them.

We need people who can make meaning out of what was meaningless before. THAT take genius creativity. You don't get that by teaching five year olds the Gettysburg address.

I sense a terminal case of "charter school" envy here. Just because it doesn't fit the developmental models that your ed school pushed and the unions insist on..

It's a kick start for kids who CAN capitalize on the extra stimulation and does no HARM at that age for kids who aren't motivated by their early success..

As "they" say... Don't knock it til you've tried it and documented the results. And if there's one thing that American needs --- it IS results..

WTF is HEADSTART and PRE-K if NOT attempts to "jump-start" their little cranial engines?

You'd be dead wrong there. I'm a public school teacher but I don't belong to the NEA or my local union and I'm all in favor of charter schools, private schools, home schools or ANY schools if they work.

Is this better than nothing? Marginally. So you will see marginal results. And that is not based on "ed school" whatever. It's based on brain development, which is not "ed school"

 

[SweetSue92]

That's what I've heard, anyway.

Just got back from a program in the kindergarten class my older daughter teaches at a Charter school. A class in which they know cursive, can read books, and can do third grade math by the time the year is over. In kindergarten.

Anyway, they recited all the states and the state capitols, both as a group and individually; they answered questions on American history and geography; they recited the first part of the Gettysburg Address. And they did one mean bunny hop a couple of times in between.

This class is about 80% black or brown.

This class isn't about your skin color or how much money your parents have. It's about maintaining standards and expectations, giving kids pride in their own achievements, and holding them accountable for their actions.

I'll bet we all know this. Some just refuse to admit it.
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That's sad and awful. The kids are five and they're doing third grade math? They "know cursive"? They're forced to memorize information they can't even process, like state capitols and the Gettysburg address? At FIVE YEARS OLD. They're spewing trained material and that's it. They understand NONE of it.

This is the problem with charter schools. This stuff looks impressive if you have NO IDEA what kids should really be learning at that age, how they learn, what they retain or what. You will keep a few learners if you keep that up, but lose a WHOLE lot more. Because that's miserable for those kids.

Yeah.. That may be true, BUT -- they are learning the TOOLS of learning.. And to appreciate that feeling of accomplishment.. There are no losers here. There's a discipline to learning and it's never too young to expose children to that...

Memorizing information that is totally unnecessary for a kindergarten life is marginally useful at best. At BEST. And you can make a kindergartner feel accomplished for literally ANYTHING. You can make a five year old feel accomplished for drinking a glass of water--that's how easily THAT can be accomplished; it's no feat whatsoever.

We must do better.

 

[SweetSue92]

That’s amazing... kudos to your daughter for doing an excellent job grooming our youth!

Sadly, that is the appropriate word when five year olds are learning the Gettysburg address and memorizing state capitols. "Grooming", not learning. Just memorizing and spewing, that's all. They cannot process that information. They do not understand how long ago one year was, let alone the Civil War. They do not understand how far away the next town is, let alone the next state.

Mac this is no remark on what kind of teacher your daughter is. She is probably having to teach in the iron grip of that Charter school and so it is. She is probably a phenomenal teacher. But that curriculum is not good for learning and ESPECIALLY not 21st century learning. I know that sounds like "liberal code buzz" or whatever but it's true. We don't need people who can memorize stuff that is meaningless to them.

We need people who can make meaning out of what was meaningless before. THAT take genius creativity. You don't get that by teaching five year olds the Gettysburg address.

I sense a terminal case of "charter school" envy here. Just because it doesn't fit the developmental models that your ed school pushed and the unions insist on..

It's a kick start for kids who CAN capitalize on the extra stimulation and does no HARM at that age for kids who aren't motivated by their early success..

As "they" say... Don't knock it til you've tried it and documented the results. And if there's one thing that American needs --- it IS results..

WTF is HEADSTART and PRE-K if NOT attempts to "jump-start" their little cranial engines?

Here's something to ponder: many European schools achieve way over and above our American schools and they don't even think of teaching "academics" until kids are seven years old. Let alone having them do horrid academic feats like memorize the Gettysburg address at five years old. (!!!)

Wanna know why? They know the research, and aren't into impressing dull brained parents.

 

[SweetSue92]

My grandkids have career fairs in their elementary school. K-5 meeting with colleges and military recruiters. Just far away from my days of school.

There are 8th graders writing programs for games and other cool stuff. Building bridges with popsicle sticks that can with can handle 150 lbs psi of pressure.

That starts with building with blocks. Yep.

Not writing cursive with baby fingers. For the love of Pete.

 

[SweetSue92]

When it comes to education, it appears that one end of the spectrum would like to see Bible study interspersed between Sean Hannity podcasts, and the other end would like to see sensitivity training interspersed between microaggression awareness meetings.

For our kid's sake, and for our country's sake, I'm so happy schools like my daughter's exist.
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Good for you! If ignorance is bliss, you should be very happy!

If y'all hadn't hollered at him so much about it, Mac might have listened to what all the teachers here are saying to him. I think Mac's reaction to the "95th percentile in the state" is a perfect example of why education in this country has gotten so screwed up. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the motivational style of teaching that Mac's daughter is using, and the children are obviously comfortable with it and excelling with it. But he is not able to hear that what they are insisting these kids learn for the sake of achieving those high scores is not based in solid pedagogy. It's all about the numbers, man. And non-educators sitting on school boards all over the country are making the same mistake.

It never ends.

Every teacher is using "motivational teaching" unless they absolutely suck, and then they should get out. That should be obvious.

I'd be very interested to follow these kids in the charter school and see how long it lasts. Or see if the charter school can retain teachers.

 

[SweetSue92]

That's sad and awful.

When did this weird paranoia about intelligence and education begin?

It really is okay to be intelligent and educated. Really.

I can't believe I just said that.
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So in your estimation, being "intelligent and educated" means spewing back, literally, a bunch of random sounds and words for which you have no idea the meaning. And could not explain to anyone if your life depended on it.

That is no where near "learning"--it is mere rote memorization. Memorization has limited used when it is a building block for other knowledge, absolutely: IOW, multiplication tables. The Gettysburg Address in kindergarten is a performance trick.

I'll say it again:

It's not about what they are actually learning at that age. It's about teaching them how to learn.

It's about exercising their minds from different directions. Giving them lots of positive feedback. Constantly. Showing them they can do it.

That's the point. That's what this is all about. I would think that's huge.

If that's not good enough for you, then sorry.
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My nephews go to the most expensive private school in the state. Lots of pressure and homework. High expectations when you are paying $25K a year per kid. You can get into Harvard going to this school.

My brother became a VP of a fortune 500 company not because of public high school but in spite of it. He struggled his first year at MSU and I struggled my first year at EMU. I/We didn't know how to study. Not like you have to study in college. 5 classes a semester kind of studying. It wasn't easy to learn.

What is the difference between their private education and our public education? When they go to college it's going to be easier than high school was for them. But for us public school kids, it's tough figuring it all out on our own when we go to college. We were not prepared. The unkotares and sweetsue92's failed us.

And a lot of us thought we were smart because we got A's and B's in our public schools. Those A's are private school B's. And our B's are their C's.

I know that school, I know people who teach there, and I have observed at that school. I can tell you and every poster here that the idea of writing in cursive in kindergarten and memorizing the Gettysburg address in kindergarten would be roundly laughed out the door even at the "top private school in the state". Because, again, it's not actual rigor.

 

[SweetSue92]

I'll say it again:

It's not about what they are actually learning at that age. It's about teaching them how to learn.

It's about exercising their minds from different directions. Giving them lots of positive feedback. Constantly. Showing them they can do it.

That's the point. That's what this is all about. I would think that's huge.

If that's not good enough for you, then sorry.
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......

And a lot of us thought we were smart because we got A's and B's in our public schools. Those A's are private school B's. And our B's are their C's.

That is not correct. In fact, often just the opposite is true.

Wrong. You public school teachers are not preparing your students for college.

Worse still... The still is the unforgivable crime of convincing all of these kids that they must go to college; when a majority of them flat out, aren’t college material. Which saddles the average enrollee with a debt that on average takes 20 years to pay off. If it weren’t for colleges selling worthless degrees; most of these kids would have no degree at all. And they’d be better off for it. They could pursue careers in profitable trades, and start making money where they might actually have a chance of success. Instead most teachers push kids into a mistake that can take decades to pay off. When they could have been improving their lives.
When’s the last time you heard of a kid flunking out of college? You don’t. No one turns down a paying customer...

I just showed you 30% flunk/drop out.

I'm so glad I got my college degree but it could have been done a better way. They should have a 2 year sales associates rather than make me go 4 years to a business school just to get out and be a salesperson. I didn't need all that.

They need to make better 2 year degrees too and have them be worth something to employers. So rather than make the kid try to get a 4 year degree, which is hard and a lot of work, they could just get a 2 year associates

but right now an associates is worthless pretty much in the business world. That's bullshit.

I can't argue with you too much. It's a racket that's for sure.

Most kids who want to go to college but drop out don't want to go into a trade. They don't know what they want to do. That's why they go to college. Not all but a lot. And that's why a lot drop out or get kicked out.

So that's another thing teachers are doing wrong. Their kids graduate and they don't even know what they want to do. Why does it take humans so long to mature?

Every post about education is really all about you, and these nephews you brag about. Ho hum, I'm dead sick of reading it.

 

[SweetSue92]

Wrong. You public school teachers are not preparing your students for college.

Worse still... The still is the unforgivable crime of convincing all of these kids that they must go to college; when a majority of them flat out, aren’t college material. Which saddles the average enrollee with a debt that on average takes 20 years to pay off. If it weren’t for colleges selling worthless degrees; most of these kids would have no degree at all. And they’d be better off for it. They could pursue careers in profitable trades, and start making money where they might actually have a chance of success. Instead most teachers push kids into a mistake that can take decades to pay off. When they could have been improving their lives.
When’s the last time you heard of a kid flunking out of college? You don’t. No one turns down a paying customer...

I just showed you 30% flunk/drop out.

I'm so glad I got my college degree but it could have been done a better way. They should have a 2 year sales associates rather than make me go 4 years to a business school just to get out and be a salesperson. I didn't need all that.

They need to make better 2 year degrees too and have them be worth something to employers. So rather than make the kid try to get a 4 year degree, which is hard and a lot of work, they could just get a 2 year associates

but right now an associates is worthless pretty much in the business world. That's bullshit.

I can't argue with you too much. It's a racket that's for sure.

Most kids who want to go to college but drop out don't want to go into a trade. They don't know what they want to do. That's why they go to college. Not all but a lot. And that's why a lot drop out or get kicked out.

So that's another thing teachers are doing wrong. Their kids graduate and they don't even know what they want to do. Why does it take humans so long to mature?

Expecting teachers to decide for kids what they want to do with their lives? Is that asking a bit much? THINK about it.
School did not used to be solely for the purpose of getting a job. Now it is. This whole push for EVERYONE to go to college or trade school after high school is silly when you think about why that is. It is because high school doesn't prepare you to make a living wage and doesn't teach the skills necessary to get on in life. But instead of improving the K-12 curriculum and standards, they push two years of a trade school or four years of college that costs $$$$ instead. Makes no sense for most people.

I am intrigued as to your reasoning. What skills do you believe are needed to make a living wage that are not taught in high school?

Working with others, writing, power point presentations, leadership skills, public speaking, reading, critical thinking.

I remember one teacher my senior year telling us about college and saving money. She was young and hip. Most of the teachers were burned out teaching the same old stuff.

More posts about Bobo's Education.

Raise your hand if you care.

 

[SweetSue92]

Wrong. You public school teachers are not preparing your students for college.

Worse still... The still is the unforgivable crime of convincing all of these kids that they must go to college; when a majority of them flat out, aren’t college material. Which saddles the average enrollee with a debt that on average takes 20 years to pay off. If it weren’t for colleges selling worthless degrees; most of these kids would have no degree at all. And they’d be better off for it. They could pursue careers in profitable trades, and start making money where they might actually have a chance of success. Instead most teachers push kids into a mistake that can take decades to pay off. When they could have been improving their lives.
When’s the last time you heard of a kid flunking out of college? You don’t. No one turns down a paying customer...

I just showed you 30% flunk/drop out.

I'm so glad I got my college degree but it could have been done a better way. They should have a 2 year sales associates rather than make me go 4 years to a business school just to get out and be a salesperson. I didn't need all that.

They need to make better 2 year degrees too and have them be worth something to employers. So rather than make the kid try to get a 4 year degree, which is hard and a lot of work, they could just get a 2 year associates

but right now an associates is worthless pretty much in the business world. That's bullshit.

I can't argue with you too much. It's a racket that's for sure.

Most kids who want to go to college but drop out don't want to go into a trade. They don't know what they want to do. That's why they go to college. Not all but a lot. And that's why a lot drop out or get kicked out.

So that's another thing teachers are doing wrong. Their kids graduate and they don't even know what they want to do. Why does it take humans so long to mature?

Expecting teachers to decide for kids what they want to do with their lives? Is that asking a bit much? THINK about it.
School did not used to be solely for the purpose of getting a job. Now it is. This whole push for EVERYONE to go to college or trade school after high school is silly when you think about why that is. It is because high school doesn't prepare you to make a living wage and doesn't teach the skills necessary to get on in life. But instead of improving the K-12 curriculum and standards, they push two years of a trade school or four years of college that costs $$$$ instead. Makes no sense for most people.

I am intrigued as to your reasoning. What skills do you believe are needed to make a living wage that are not taught in high school?

By "living wage" I am not talking about minimum wage jobs, Admiral. Although employers in our area are crying that the high school grads coming to them can't make change or read directions or have any concept of employability soft skills, like calling in if you can't show up, and not calling in twice a week, every week.
I teach college transitions and the math skills some of these kids have (or haven't) boggle even my mind--no concept of the meaning of a decimal point, how to figure the price of something that is 25% off, how to figure simple interest on a loan. Not even sure how to attack a word problem involving nothing but subtraction.

It is input from community employers and the admissions office at the local college, all screaming, that the kids aren't prepared. And I see it as we fill the potholes for kids who somehow got that diploma for apparently nothing but showing up and breathing.

The self-esteem movement of the 80s decimated the culture Old Lady. Complete decimated the culture, and parenting. And teaching.

 

[SweetSue92]

Worse still... The still is the unforgivable crime of convincing all of these kids that they must go to college; when a majority of them flat out, aren’t college material. Which saddles the average enrollee with a debt that on average takes 20 years to pay off. If it weren’t for colleges selling worthless degrees; most of these kids would have no degree at all. And they’d be better off for it. They could pursue careers in profitable trades, and start making money where they might actually have a chance of success. Instead most teachers push kids into a mistake that can take decades to pay off. When they could have been improving their lives.
When’s the last time you heard of a kid flunking out of college? You don’t. No one turns down a paying customer...

I just showed you 30% flunk/drop out.

I'm so glad I got my college degree but it could have been done a better way. They should have a 2 year sales associates rather than make me go 4 years to a business school just to get out and be a salesperson. I didn't need all that.

They need to make better 2 year degrees too and have them be worth something to employers. So rather than make the kid try to get a 4 year degree, which is hard and a lot of work, they could just get a 2 year associates

but right now an associates is worthless pretty much in the business world. That's bullshit.

I can't argue with you too much. It's a racket that's for sure.

Most kids who want to go to college but drop out don't want to go into a trade. They don't know what they want to do. That's why they go to college. Not all but a lot. And that's why a lot drop out or get kicked out.

So that's another thing teachers are doing wrong. Their kids graduate and they don't even know what they want to do. Why does it take humans so long to mature?

Expecting teachers to decide for kids what they want to do with their lives? Is that asking a bit much? THINK about it.
School did not used to be solely for the purpose of getting a job. Now it is. This whole push for EVERYONE to go to college or trade school after high school is silly when you think about why that is. It is because high school doesn't prepare you to make a living wage and doesn't teach the skills necessary to get on in life. But instead of improving the K-12 curriculum and standards, they push two years of a trade school or four years of college that costs $$$$ instead. Makes no sense for most people.

I am intrigued as to your reasoning. What skills do you believe are needed to make a living wage that are not taught in high school?

By "living wage" I am not talking about minimum wage jobs, Admiral. Although employers in our area are crying that the high school grads coming to them can't make change or read directions or have any concept of employability soft skills, like calling in if you can't show up, and not calling in twice a week, every week.
I teach college transitions and the math skills some of these kids have (or haven't) boggle even my mind--no concept of the meaning of a decimal point, how to figure the price of something that is 25% off, how to figure simple interest on a loan. Not even sure how to attack a word problem involving nothing but subtraction.

It is input from community employers and the admissions office at the local college, all screaming, that the kids aren't prepared. And I see it as we fill the potholes for kids who somehow got that diploma for apparently nothing but showing up and breathing.

My high school allowed me to skate by. I really paid for it in college. My first semester I got all C's and 1 C-. That's below a 2.0 so I was immediately on academic probation. I ended up quitting the wrestling team and the next semester I got a 3.8 GPA.

High school didn't prepare me to know how to study for 4-5 classes per semester. My nephews who go to a private school are already used to having lots of homework. College won't be a shock to them.

Again: Bobo's high school, Bobo's college, bobo's nephews.

 

[SweetSue92]

That's what I've heard, anyway.

Just got back from a program in the kindergarten class my older daughter teaches at a Charter school. A class in which they know cursive, can read books, and can do third grade math by the time the year is over. In kindergarten.

Anyway, they recited all the states and the state capitols, both as a group and individually; they answered questions on American history and geography; they recited the first part of the Gettysburg Address. And they did one mean bunny hop a couple of times in between.

This class is about 80% black or brown.

This class isn't about your skin color or how much money your parents have. It's about maintaining standards and expectations, giving kids pride in their own achievements, and holding them accountable for their actions.

I'll bet we all know this. Some just refuse to admit it.
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Seems your OP was composed with good intentions, and I personally celebrate the academic success of any child. My sole issue with it? You had to go full identity politics to make your point. Myself? I married into an East Indian Family who is by and large, on all its sides, overflowing with PhD's, Masters of Science degrees (primarily in engineering), and ER Surgeons. My point? Do the brown people in my by law family count or does your narrative venerate only poor minorities? Further, and without any knowledge of your own cultural heritage, sounds to me as if you are making your point here at the expense of non-brown folks. Just kind of has that ring to it.

Well, there are elements in it that either end of the spectrum may not like.

As you can tell by some of the comments from right wingers on this thread, some feel that skin color DOES indicate a lack of intellect, as I inferred - the old fashioned bigotry of real racism. At the same time, there are many of the Left who seem more than willing to lower standards and expectations for people who have darker skin color because they fall into the Left's "oppressed victim group" status. So there's something for each end, I suppose.

For the record, I'm of mixed race, married into another mixed race family, and I'm not a fan of the way either end of the spectrum approaches either race or education.

Thanks for the civil response, by the way. Much appreciated.
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The point I wished to make? Let's say we have three different students in a given class who are all "brown". Johnny, Dennis and Phil. Why not focus on the fact that each of them possesses their own unique academic potential as individual human children, rather than classify them into a racial unit (being brown) and then quantify their performance as that group rating or as a measuring stick of their potential performance? That's all I'm saying. And also that it's a sad damned day in this world if people actually think skin color or heritage lessens an individual's academic potential. Cultures and ideologies do this to our children (stunt their potential) surely, but never racial/ethnic origin.

Some writer/professor from Georgia just told me that I, as a white woman, cannot teach Black children, no matter how much I love them, no matter how much I respect them, if I am also not down for their every struggle--economic, housing (?!), food, LGBT and the list went on and on and on.

I reject that on the whole, and would reject that to her in person. What she is saying is: you must be One Of Us or you cannot accept us.

Rejected.

I have always taught, respected and even loved every one of my many students as INDIVIDUALS first and though I realize their race and religion influenced who they are, they do not come to me as Race and Religion. They come to me with a name, a soul and a brain that is individual.

If that's the hill I die on in 2019, so be it.

 

[SweetSue92]

Expecting teachers to decide for kids what they want to do with their lives? Is that asking a bit much? THINK about it.
School did not used to be solely for the purpose of getting a job. Now it is. This whole push for EVERYONE to go to college or trade school after high school is silly when you think about why that is. It is because high school doesn't prepare you to make a living wage and doesn't teach the skills necessary to get on in life. But instead of improving the K-12 curriculum and standards, they push two years of a trade school or four years of college that costs $$$$ instead. Makes no sense for most people.

I am intrigued as to your reasoning. What skills do you believe are needed to make a living wage that are not taught in high school?

By "living wage" I am not talking about minimum wage jobs, Admiral. Although employers in our area are crying that the high school grads coming to them can't make change or read directions or have any concept of employability soft skills, like calling in if you can't show up, and not calling in twice a week, every week.
I teach college transitions and the math skills some of these kids have (or haven't) boggle even my mind--no concept of the meaning of a decimal point, how to figure the price of something that is 25% off, how to figure simple interest on a loan. Not even sure how to attack a word problem involving nothing but subtraction.

It is input from community employers and the admissions office at the local college, all screaming, that the kids aren't prepared. And I see it as we fill the potholes for kids who somehow got that diploma for apparently nothing but showing up and breathing.

My high school allowed me to skate by. I really paid for it in college. My first semester I got all C's and 1 C-. That's below a 2.0 so I was immediately on academic probation. I ended up quitting the wrestling team and the next semester I got a 3.8 GPA.

High school didn't prepare me to know how to study for 4-5 classes per semester. My nephews who go to a private school are already used to having lots of homework. College won't be a shock to them.

I don't think your freshman experience is all that unusual, Sealy. I heard once that colleges INTENTIONALLY make freshman year difficult--those required 101 classes? They are designed to "weed out" the disinterested or the really weak students. Every campus will tell you there is an exodus from their dorms every October/November, freshmen saying they can't cope.
Good for you for toughing it out. I'm not sure that you should be blaming your public education for the tough time you had your first year. It's a big transition. Kids in private high schools (read prep schools) are of course focusing on college skills. Not everyone in public school is and many couldn't even if they wanted to. So actually, once you got your feet under you and got rid of the extracurricular distractions, you did great. Maybe you could thank your public education for THAT, too.

Shhh stop making sense I'm dealing with 2 idiot conservative teachers who are probably lousy at their jobs.

Rated Highly Effective and won multiple awards and nationally published. Only 10% of teachers in my district rated Highly Effective, bobo so shove off already.

 

[SweetSue92]

My high school allowed me to skate by. I really paid for it in college. My first semester I got all C's and 1 C-. That's below a 2.0 so I was immediately on academic probation. I ended up quitting the wrestling team and the next semester I got a 3.8 GPA.

High school didn't prepare me to know how to study for 4-5 classes per semester. My nephews who go to a private school are already used to having lots of homework. College won't be a shock to them.

Some kids just don’t have the maturity, discipline, or intelligence to manage their time while completing a variety of important tasks. If a kid shows up at college stupid, weak and lazy, there’s no point in blaming high school for that individuals failure as a human being. Such people should stick to one thing and one thing only and probably live by and for themselves alone.

What about my brother? He struggled too early in college and now he's a VP of HR in a fortune 500. He got a masters from Michigan State University not because of our public high school but instead despite it.

You sound like the loser counselors/teachers in High school who told him something similar to what you just said. Boy did he prove them/you wrong.

What you said is the exact attitude a bad teacher has. To me this proves you are what I'm accusing you of being. A bad role model and teacher.

Thanks for admitting what you think about the kids you teach every day. You certainly don't accept any blame for the failures. You said it yourself. I could almost quote you. You said, : Some kids just don’t have the maturity, discipline, or intelligence to manage their time while completing a variety of important tasks. If a kid shows up at college stupid, weak and lazy, there’s no point in blaming ME.

And some teachers don't have the knowledge, skills, ability, discipline or intelligence to get through to their students so they just go through the motions.

We could have 1 uninspiring teacher like unkotare teach 100 kids online for $30K a year. Why we pay teachers so much to teach in brick and mortar schools is beyond me. And we pay each teacher at least $70K plus benefits and a pension. We must break the teachers union. We must rethink how we educate the masses. If unkotare and teachers like him take no blame for the bad results we could do this for pennies on the dollar.

Sealy, kids HAVE to take some responsibility for their learning. C'mon, you know that. Picture yourself trying to motivate someone to do something they have no interest in. Unkotare is a hard ass and he doesn't hold his students by the hand. Some teachers hold their students hands so much they don't learn, either. You need to stop putting the blame for everything on teachers.

Is that what you thought I was doing? Putting the blame for everything on teachers? I was not. But "he who shall not be named" doesn't take any responsibility.

So much for the idea that there are good teachers and bad teachers. So much for suggesting that maybe there is a better way, which there is.

I'm not blaming just Unk I'm blaming the entire system.

So you agree with unk that first it's the parents fault, then it's the students fault and it's never the teachers fault? I believe that is his position. He says he is doing the best possible job educating young minds. No possible way it could be done better than what he is doing.

And don't you dare tell him he's wrong. He's the expert on this subject not us. But then that's like a prison guard saying there is nothing wrong with the current criminal justice system and we should just shut up because he is an expert and we are not. But then we look at recidivism rates and we see clearly prison guards are not doing a good job. You can't expect prison guards to reform the status quo. They defend it. They'll tell you they're doing the best anyone could possibly do. No way reforming the system will fix anything. Don't even bother trying.

Unkotare sounds like a prison guard who's defensive and not open to change.

Go easy, sealy. If I misunderstood you, my apologies.
No, I seldom agree with Unk on anything, including on how we approach students, but hard ass teachers with expectations they will NOT lower can sometimes get great results.

But this thread isn't about Unk, is it? I agree with you that changing the way people view the status quo is REALLY really hard. People don't want to be bothered. But Unk doesn't represent the entire educational system in this country, anymore than I do. Just take it a little easy.

He's a small-minded jerk, Old Lady. Told me I'm too old and ugly to be a teacher. That's the mind we're working with here.

 

[Mac1958]

That's what I've heard, anyway.

Just got back from a program in the kindergarten class my older daughter teaches at a Charter school. A class in which they know cursive, can read books, and can do third grade math by the time the year is over. In kindergarten.

Anyway, they recited all the states and the state capitols, both as a group and individually; they answered questions on American history and geography; they recited the first part of the Gettysburg Address. And they did one mean bunny hop a couple of times in between.

This class is about 80% black or brown.

This class isn't about your skin color or how much money your parents have. It's about maintaining standards and expectations, giving kids pride in their own achievements, and holding them accountable for their actions.

I'll bet we all know this. Some just refuse to admit it.
.

That's sad and awful. The kids are five and they're doing third grade math? They "know cursive"? They're forced to memorize information they can't even process, like state capitols and the Gettysburg address? At FIVE YEARS OLD. They're spewing trained material and that's it. They understand NONE of it.

This is the problem with charter schools. This stuff looks impressive if you have NO IDEA what kids should really be learning at that age, how they learn, what they retain or what. You will keep a few learners if you keep that up, but lose a WHOLE lot more. Because that's miserable for those kids.

Yeah.. That may be true, BUT -- they are learning the TOOLS of learning.. And to appreciate that feeling of accomplishment.. There are no losers here. There's a discipline to learning and it's never too young to expose children to that...

It's been amazing watching the pushback on this.

The kids are being taught in a variety of ways, standards and expectations are strong, the kids are responding, and they have a bright educational future.

All in a low-income, high-minority area.

I think that's pretty fantastic. Clearly some don't.
.

 

[Mac1958]

When it comes to education, it appears that one end of the spectrum would like to see Bible study interspersed between Sean Hannity podcasts, and the other end would like to see sensitivity training interspersed between microaggression awareness meetings.

For our kid's sake, and for our country's sake, I'm so happy schools like my daughter's exist.
.

No you're getting challenged and so resorted to politics.

Sure, wingers are very consistent. Left wingers are desperate to keep standards & expectations low for minorities and hate charter schools, Right wingers are on this bizarro anti-education, anti-intelligence thing. Each of them have their little piece of turf to protect. It's all coming out on this thread, clear as a bell. Politics poisons everything.

Meanwhile, the kids are kicking ass, showing that skin color is irrelevant and that maintaining standards & expectations can yield fantastic results.

Outstanding. And funny.
.

 

[impuretrash]

That's what I've heard, anyway.

Just got back from a program in the kindergarten class my older daughter teaches at a Charter school. A class in which they know cursive, can read books, and can do third grade math by the time the year is over. In kindergarten.

Anyway, they recited all the states and the state capitols, both as a group and individually; they answered questions on American history and geography; they recited the first part of the Gettysburg Address. And they did one mean bunny hop a couple of times in between.

This class is about 80% black or brown.

This class isn't about your skin color or how much money your parents have. It's about maintaining standards and expectations, giving kids pride in their own achievements, and holding them accountable for their actions.

I'll bet we all know this. Some just refuse to admit it.
.

That's sad and awful. The kids are five and they're doing third grade math? They "know cursive"? They're forced to memorize information they can't even process, like state capitols and the Gettysburg address? At FIVE YEARS OLD. They're spewing trained material and that's it. They understand NONE of it.

This is the problem with charter schools. This stuff looks impressive if you have NO IDEA what kids should really be learning at that age, how they learn, what they retain or what. You will keep a few learners if you keep that up, but lose a WHOLE lot more. Because that's miserable for those kids.

Yeah.. That may be true, BUT -- they are learning the TOOLS of learning.. And to appreciate that feeling of accomplishment.. There are no losers here. There's a discipline to learning and it's never too young to expose children to that...

It's been amazing watching the pushback on this.

The kids are being taught in a variety of ways, standards and expectations are strong, the kids are responding, and they have a bright educational future.

All in a low-income, high-minority area.

I think that's pretty fantastic. Clearly some don't.
.

You had to know what was going to happen when you started this thread.

 

[Mac1958]

That's what I've heard, anyway.

Just got back from a program in the kindergarten class my older daughter teaches at a Charter school. A class in which they know cursive, can read books, and can do third grade math by the time the year is over. In kindergarten.

Anyway, they recited all the states and the state capitols, both as a group and individually; they answered questions on American history and geography; they recited the first part of the Gettysburg Address. And they did one mean bunny hop a couple of times in between.

This class is about 80% black or brown.

This class isn't about your skin color or how much money your parents have. It's about maintaining standards and expectations, giving kids pride in their own achievements, and holding them accountable for their actions.

I'll bet we all know this. Some just refuse to admit it.
.

That's sad and awful. The kids are five and they're doing third grade math? They "know cursive"? They're forced to memorize information they can't even process, like state capitols and the Gettysburg address? At FIVE YEARS OLD. They're spewing trained material and that's it. They understand NONE of it.

This is the problem with charter schools. This stuff looks impressive if you have NO IDEA what kids should really be learning at that age, how they learn, what they retain or what. You will keep a few learners if you keep that up, but lose a WHOLE lot more. Because that's miserable for those kids.

Yeah.. That may be true, BUT -- they are learning the TOOLS of learning.. And to appreciate that feeling of accomplishment.. There are no losers here. There's a discipline to learning and it's never too young to expose children to that...

It's been amazing watching the pushback on this.

The kids are being taught in a variety of ways, standards and expectations are strong, the kids are responding, and they have a bright educational future.

All in a low-income, high-minority area.

I think that's pretty fantastic. Clearly some don't.
.

You had to know what was going to happen when you started this thread.

Sure, although I have to admit a little piece of me always hopes for something better.
.

 

[wamose]

That's what I've heard, anyway.

Just got back from a program in the kindergarten class my older daughter teaches at a Charter school. A class in which they know cursive, can read books, and can do third grade math by the time the year is over. In kindergarten.

Anyway, they recited all the states and the state capitols, both as a group and individually; they answered questions on American history and geography; they recited the first part of the Gettysburg Address. And they did one mean bunny hop a couple of times in between.

This class is about 80% black or brown.

This class isn't about your skin color or how much money your parents have. It's about maintaining standards and expectations, giving kids pride in their own achievements, and holding them accountable for their actions.

I'll bet we all know this. Some just refuse to admit it.
.

That's sad and awful. The kids are five and they're doing third grade math? They "know cursive"? They're forced to memorize information they can't even process, like state capitols and the Gettysburg address? At FIVE YEARS OLD. They're spewing trained material and that's it. They understand NONE of it.

This is the problem with charter schools. This stuff looks impressive if you have NO IDEA what kids should really be learning at that age, how they learn, what they retain or what. You will keep a few learners if you keep that up, but lose a WHOLE lot more. Because that's miserable for those kids.

Yeah.. That may be true, BUT -- they are learning the TOOLS of learning.. And to appreciate that feeling of accomplishment.. There are no losers here. There's a discipline to learning and it's never too young to expose children to that...

It's been amazing watching the pushback on this.

The kids are being taught in a variety of ways, standards and expectations are strong, the kids are responding, and they have a bright educational future.

All in a low-income, high-minority area.

I think that's pretty fantastic. Clearly some don't.
.

Too bad Lori Laughlin's two stupid kids didn't go there. It could have saved old Lori a half a mil and 10 months in the slammer.