Minimal Facts Approach Proves Jesus is God

[Parture]

This is going to be a pretty damned big shock to the Pope!

He will likely be killed in the explosion. The Pope is not a Christian.

You're not a christian so why do you care?

I am a Christian, but you aren't so you are going to Hell with the Popes.

 

[Vandalshandle]

This is going to be a pretty damned big shock to the Pope!

He will likely be killed in the explosion. The Pope is not a Christian.

You're not a christian so why do you care?

I am a Christian, but you aren't so you are going to Hell with the Popes.

Well, whatever it takes to avoid Jerry Falwell...

 

[Parture]

This is going to be a pretty damned big shock to the Pope!

He will likely be killed in the explosion. The Pope is not a Christian.

You're not a christian so why do you care?

I am a Christian, but you aren't so you are going to Hell with the Popes.

Well, whatever it takes to avoid Jerry Falwell...

He's not a Christian don't worry.

 

[Parture]

Jerry Falwell said, "Since the Antichrist will not be revealed before Jesus comes, I believe conditions are falling in place, i.e., one-world government, so he can rule the world after Jesus comes."

When Jesus returns, Jesus will rule the world not the Antichrist. So Jerry is waiting for the Antichrist not Jesus.

 

[Meriweather]

unless one accepts Christ for salvation to be redeemed and receive eternal life, you are going to Hell.

This suggests you do not believe God is faithful to His covenants.

 

[Meriweather]

Revelation is the future.

Incorrect. Revelation is apocalyptic literature which outlines (in apocalyptic form) the troubles faced by early Christians at the hands of the government. It was meant to encourage, calling to mind times past when God prevailed over evil. Revelation is filled with symbolism, much of it taken from the Old Testament--and it describes events taking place in the late first, early second centuries.

 

[Parture]

unless one accepts Christ for salvation to be redeemed and receive eternal life, you are going to Hell.

This suggests you do not believe God is faithful to His covenants.

His covenant is to make Israel the center of all nations; this does not imply that He irresistibly imposes salvation on them. He gives everyone the free choice to receive Him in order to be saved.

 

[Parture]

Revelation is the future.

Incorrect. Revelation is apocalyptic literature which outlines (in apocalyptic form) the troubles faced by early Christians at the hands of the government. It was meant to encourage, calling to mind times past when God prevailed over evil. Revelation is filled with symbolism, much of it taken from the Old Testament--and it describes events taking place in the late first, early second centuries.

Just as Genesis 1 & 2 give the beginnings from Revelation 7 on is yet in the future. The 66 books of the Bible would not make much sense if the beginning or the future events were left untouched in God's redemptive design. You want to allegorize everything, but of the 30 symbols in the book of Revelation 15 are already explained in the text leaving less than one symbol per chapter to be explained elsewhere. That is hardly apocalyptic form. Rev. 2.26,27 says the saints will rule the nations with a rod of iron. Rev. 7.9 we see the saints raptured "before the throne" in 3rd heaven. All of Daniel's sevens are 2,520 days each. So is this last one. This is yet future obviously. Rev. 19 is Jesus returning to earth. When Jesus was on earth He said He would return. Your interpretation is inconsistent with the 2nd coming. Rev. 20 are overcoming saints reigning as kings and priests. Rev. 21 shows us the literal size of the New City.

 

[Vandalshandle]

"Rev. 21 shows us the literal size of the New City."

Does your family know that you are no longer in the institution?

 

[Parture]

"Rev. 21 shows us the literal size of the New City."

Does your family know that you are no longer in the institution?

How long have you been hospitalized since obviously you are projecting your own condition onto others?

 

[BULLDOG]

Somebody should go get the net.

 

[Parture]

Somebody should go get the net.

I think we caught a few to Christ.

 

[Parture]

Too bad we can't stay on topic....

Almost all scholars who do their peer review journal or accredited work on the resurrection of Jesus, whether they are believers or not, concede some facts can be gleaned from the Scriptures. One of those irrefutable facts is that Paul definitely wrote 1 Cor. 15, Gal. 1 & 2. In these 3 chapters he does the follow:

• said he spent 15 days with Peter, and also time with John and James and they had nothing to add unto him about what he knew of Jesus;
• he recounts the gospel message that Jesus died for us and rose from the dead to save us;
• various appearances of Jesus resurrected are given by the Apostles;
• Paul gives his own eyewitness account of seeing Jesus alive from the dead with others present with him;
• unless one accepts Christ for salvation to be redeemed and receive eternal life, you are going to Hell.

Since nobody is able these past 2000 years found a naturalistic explanation to account for the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles in various group settings, we know Jesus is God, salvation is through Him alone, and nothing exists that exists without Him having created it. For example, group hallucinations are impossible, people don't willingly die for what they know is a lie, and swoon theory would not convince anyone Jesus was the risen Messiah all tattered and torn, scourged down to the bone, and holes in his hands and feet unable to walk.

Jesus wants to save you but will not force His love on you, so He gives you the free choice and wants to be with those who love Him. Nobody knows all the wonderful things God had planed for those who love Him. He returns not for the unregenerate but for the sake of the elect. This world would be destroyed if Jesus does not return. And He returns long before there would be massive radiation fallout on the planet, because He wants a planet where His overcomers reign over the nations (Jude 14,15; Rev. 2.26,27; 20.4-6) on a healthy planet.

Praise the Lord! Amen.

 

[hobelim]

Dreams don't fit the profile because group dreams are impossible just as group hallucinations are impossible according to the DM-5 Psychology Manual.

They did all not have the same dreams. One saw an angel float down from the sky and roll his stone, one saw an empty tomb, one saw him in disguise while walking and then broke bread and ate fish with him, in another dream he popped in and out of a locked room, and then Tomas finally saw him in a dream and poked his wounds. Even the account of the ascension was an account of what was seen and heard in a dream.

Ascending bodily into heaven is not about bodily floating up into the sky.

What does the DM-5 Psychology Manual say about people who can't tell the difference between actual reality and what is only possible in the dream world?

 

[Parture]

They did all not have the same dreams. One saw an angel float down from the sky and roll his stone, one saw an empty tomb, one saw him in disguise while walking and then broke bread and ate fish with him, in another dream he popped in and out of a locked room, and then Tomas finally saw him in a dream and poked his wounds. Even the account of the ascension was an account of what was seen and heard in a dream.

Ascending bodily into heaven is not about bodily floating up into the sky.

What does the DM-5 Psychology Manual say about people who can't tell the difference between actual reality and what is only possible in the dream world?

According to their eyewitness testimony they saw the same thing as they were not alone, for several Apostles were together when it happened. But group hallucinations or group dreams are impossible. For example, in one instance the same ten disciples saw Jesus behind closed doors (Mark 16.14; Luke 24.35-43; John 20.19-25).

Jesus' ascension into heaven was bodily, seen and reported by those who witnessed it and recorded it bodily. There was not a difference in their eyewitness testimony. Like I said, group hallucinations are impossible. Since group hallucinations and group dreams are impossible, you fail to find a naturalistic explanation to account for their eyewitness testimony in various group settings. Scholars have thrown out this approach to try to explain away the resurrection appearances, because it fails for the reason I have given you.

We are just discussing the group settings and multiple reporting of those groups of individuals, not concerned with for the moment individual alone eyewitness accounts, but we can discuss those individual accounts as well if you like. For example, Paul saw Jesus but even there, those with him fell down the ground on the road to Damascus. They heard the voice and saw the light, though they did not see the outline of Jesus that Paul saw.

That's how Paul and Luke record the incident which totally agree.

 

[Parture]

The Minimal Facts Approach at its core is taking what most skeptical scholars concede and using that against them to prove Jesus is God.

 

[Parture]

This is so important.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Jesus trims my grapefruit trees every Winter and he is Definitely NOT god. For one thing, he drives a 1983 GMC pickup truck. I would expect god to, at least, drive a Hummer.

 

[Parture]

Jesus trims my grapefruit trees every Winter and he is Definitely NOT god. For one thing, he drives a 1983 GMC pickup truck. I would expect god to, at least, drive a Hummer.

According to the Bible you are going to Hell since God is proven and Jesus is proven to be God. You were unable to overturn the proof in the opening post. Praise the Lord!

 

[BULLDOG]

Jesus trims my grapefruit trees every Winter and he is Definitely NOT god. For one thing, he drives a 1983 GMC pickup truck. I would expect god to, at least, drive a Hummer.

According to the Bible you are going to Hell since God is proven and Jesus is proven to be God. You were unable to overturn the proof in the opening post. Praise the Lord!

I'm not sure where to find it in the Bible, but I know that beer is proof that God exists, and that he loves us.