Min Wage versus Cost of Living 1970 to 2018

[sparky]

We need a Living Wage. At the same time, we need a Consumer Group that has the power to drag these unscrupulous theives into civil courts and get them fined for unfair trade practice.

You're making it mighty hard to be an blissfully ignorant bluecollar redneck Daryl

~S~

 

[sparky]

The middle has not all but disappeared.

well...mine certianly hasn't.... ~S~

 

[Oddball]

Yet reality states clearly that if the wages are increased at min wage, the cost of living goes up either exactly the same or slightly more. That's not math, that's economics. Min Wage increases don't work and the Rich just get richer when they raise the cost of living to match it or more. The problem is, the people just over the new min wage just lost ground in the cost of living since they didn't get any raises. You tell me what the math is then. What prevents the cost of living from rising when a corrective wage increase is given to compensate for the years of cost of living increases that far exceeded the min wage?

You seem to have all the little words of wisdom. Let's hear your solution?

My solution is for do-gooders to butt the hell out, and quit pretending that they're doing everyone a big fat favor with their meddling and tinkering....It's painfully obvious that all the central planner machinations of alleged "fairness" are entirely impotent.

And it's entirely painfully obvious that the middle class has all but disappeared to become the new Poverty class as the Rich keep raising the cost of living more than the wage increases. And there is the real problem. Care to tell me how to fix that problem? It can't keep going. Enter 1929.

OK...So we have more and more meddling and aggression in the marketplace than ever before, to the point that the middle class has all but disappeared to become the new Poverty class, and that calls for even more more "solutions" from those meddlesome and aggressive central planners?

Just shoot me now.

You keep spouting off with your BS and yet when push comes to shove you really don't have an answer because you really don't understand the problem. I have a pretty good idea how and why it works and I also have a pretty good idea how to address it. But you people that think stealing is Capitalism won't stand for it.

I understand the problem just fine....The Fed prints money like crazy, to the point that the USD is worth pennies compared to its purchasing power in 1913...We have more rules, regulations, mandates, and attendant bureaucracies piled on top of bureaucracies choking off real productive activity.....Then we have an army of economically illiterate do-gooder central planners, claiming that more of what's gumming up the works is going to fix it....Just one more law, just one more regulation, just one more bureaucracy, just one more widget in the Rube Goldberg will fix it all!

We haven't had anything resembling real capitalism in a century, so the claim that all this "unfettered capitalism" is the problem is laughable.

 

[sparky]

We haven't had anything resembling real capitalism in a century, so the claim that all this "unfettered capitalism" is the problem is laughable.

I'd have to agree Odd one

the thing is, a declining standard of living is hard to blame on any one faction

especially when they may be lauded as our economic saviors

~S~

 

[Markle]

Unregulated capitalism is for the 1%.

To you, what is unregulated capitalism and where does it exist?

 

[Markle]

Central price controls of anything is an idiotic idea...Up to and including wages.

Not price control, profit control.

Even you don't believe that malarkey. You're just playing the Troll again.

You're incorrect.

You BELIEVE in "profit control"? Come on, you're joking. What does it even mean?

 

[Markle]

And it's entirely painfully obvious that the middle class has all but disappeared to become the new Poverty class as the Rich keep raising the cost of living more than the wage increases. And there is the real problem. Care to tell me how to fix that problem? It can't keep going. Enter 1929.

In your haste, you must have forgotten to post your reliable source and working link supporting your foolish allegation that the middle class has all but disappeared to become the new "Poverty class". How too does the rich raise the cost of living?

 

[Picaro]

I do my financial planning based on the gold standard. By that standard, minimum wage adjusted for inflation would fluctuate between $27-$31 an hour. That about matches real inflation, which is usually at least twice what the govt. routinely claims for those on the lower end of the income brackets. Note that for high incomes inflation is almost invisible re costs of living, and hits lower incomes much harder. Of course, people working three or four jobs per household and making $60K a year aren't 'middle class', but both the govt. and the right wingers can't bring themselves to say so when the minimum wage adjusted for inflation would be near that on just a forty hour work week. Even the left wing only supports around $15-$17 an hour numbers. On a gold standard minimum wage at a 40 hour work week would be $56K per year using the lower number.

We now have auto financing schemes running to 7 frigging years now, and people want to pretend the middle class isn't toast??? lol please.

 

[Wyatt earp]

The problem is, the Cost of Living will go up at an even higher rate as well. You raise the wages 12.5% and the COL goes up 12.7. The Rich just got Richer.

Daryl Hunt, direct and indirect labor costs are not the same proportion of all products' costs; The hourly rates of those labor costs vary, and the effect of the minimum wage varies for each different hourly rate. These are the reasons why the federal minimum wage rate is not among the major factors driving the U.S. Dollar's rate of inflation.

The federal reserve board controls our money supply and they are charged with what many people believe is the impossible task of regulating the U.S. Dollar's value. I appreciate that the Federal Reserve Board has demonstrated extreme competence because they've never entirely crashed our economy.

If the minimum wage rate is increased by 12.5% per year, the entire price increases are not attributable to the rate increase. Despite the Federal Reserve Board's efforts, prices continue to annually rise when the minimum wage rate has not been increased. A forewarned 12.5% increase of the minimum wage rate would not increase prices 2%.



Respectfully, Supposn

In an ideal situation you would be correct. But in the real greed situation you are wrong. In real life, the COL would increase 12.7% against a 12.5% wage increase. It always has. utopian math always sounds so good but when you enter into someone figuring out how to make more money then you get the real math.

Utopian math, coupled with gross ignorance of economics, as all your central planner tinkering adds up to.

Yet reality states clearly that if the wages are increased at min wage, the cost of living goes up either exactly the same or slightly more. That's not math, that's economics. Min Wage increases don't work and the Rich just get richer when they raise the cost of living to match it or more. The problem is, the people just over the new min wage just lost ground in the cost of living since they didn't get any raises. You tell me what the math is then. What prevents the cost of living from rising when a corrective wage increase is given to compensate for the years of cost of living increases that far exceeded the min wage?

You seem to have all the little words of wisdom. Let's hear your solution?

Exactly, that's the million dollar question, no one knows the solution Australia and New Zealand is understanding that now with their high minimum wage they still have working poor.

 

[Picaro]

Central price controls of anything is an idiotic idea...Up to and including wages.

Not price control, profit control.

Even you don't believe that malarkey. You're just playing the Troll again.

You're incorrect.

You BELIEVE in "profit control"? Come on, you're joking. What does it even mean?

It means if people want to hide under 'limited liability' laws the govt can limit their profit margins, as they did in the Founders' days. Corporations required state charters then, and if they wanted the benefits of limited liability and eminent domain rights they had to limit profits they could pay out as dividends. New York state limited them to 10% net gains, and they only granted such charters to enterprises that benefited the general public in some way, like railroads, canals, etc., i.e not just any idiot who applied for one. The rest had to actually risk their money, unlike today, where 'stockholders' have zero responsibilities and can't be held responsible for losses and debts of the business they own. this came about as result of the Civil War, and the most corrupt Supreme courts and Senate in our history, until today's, that is. The 'Gilded Age' cam along then.

 

[Darkwind]

Wow, if you were working for minimum wage in 1970 and in 2018 you're still working for minimum wage; The problem isn't minimum wage.

 

[Picaro]

The problem is, the Cost of Living will go up at an even higher rate as well. You raise the wages 12.5% and the COL goes up 12.7. The Rich just got Richer.

Daryl Hunt, direct and indirect labor costs are not the same proportion of all products' costs; The hourly rates of those labor costs vary, and the effect of the minimum wage varies for each different hourly rate. These are the reasons why the federal minimum wage rate is not among the major factors driving the U.S. Dollar's rate of inflation.

The federal reserve board controls our money supply and they are charged with what many people believe is the impossible task of regulating the U.S. Dollar's value. I appreciate that the Federal Reserve Board has demonstrated extreme competence because they've never entirely crashed our economy.

If the minimum wage rate is increased by 12.5% per year, the entire price increases are not attributable to the rate increase. Despite the Federal Reserve Board's efforts, prices continue to annually rise when the minimum wage rate has not been increased. A forewarned 12.5% increase of the minimum wage rate would not increase prices 2%.



Respectfully, Supposn

In an ideal situation you would be correct. But in the real greed situation you are wrong. In real life, the COL would increase 12.7% against a 12.5% wage increase. It always has. utopian math always sounds so good but when you enter into someone figuring out how to make more money then you get the real math.

Utopian math, coupled with gross ignorance of economics, as all your central planner tinkering adds up to.

Yet reality states clearly that if the wages are increased at min wage, the cost of living goes up either exactly the same or slightly more. That's not math, that's economics. Min Wage increases don't work and the Rich just get richer when they raise the cost of living to match it or more. The problem is, the people just over the new min wage just lost ground in the cost of living since they didn't get any raises. You tell me what the math is then. What prevents the cost of living from rising when a corrective wage increase is given to compensate for the years of cost of living increases that far exceeded the min wage?

You seem to have all the little words of wisdom. Let's hear your solution?

Exactly, that's the million dollar question, no one knows the solution Australia and New Zealand is understanding that now with their high minimum wage they still have working poor.

America had the 'solution' in the 1950's and 1960's, population growth at zero, no mass immigration, and productivity rates through the roof making up any decline a moot issue. We should have continued on that path.

 

[Crixus]

Here is what Inflation looks like when the Rich takes advantage of the Averate and below income levels Cost of Living.

milk at the dairy
1970 1.32
2018 2.90
Milk has not kept up with inflation. Even before the unfair Canadian trade Practice, Protectionism, etc. and Tariffs on US Milk, there was the introduction of the Milk Alterntives made from Grains and such. Unlike other Farming, Dairy Farmers can't rotate their products. They either operate at a loss, make money or get out of business. Trump has promised that due to the Tariffs that the Dairy Farmers will receive relief but the Diary Farmers don't want it. They claim that it will mostly go to larger Corporate Dairy Farms that are already Profitable even with all the negatives because they control most of the market. The smaller Diary Farmers will only be buying time until they go out of business. What they want is an even playing field. Nothing else will keep them in business. Next year look for Diary Farm Foreclosure Auctions to happen at an alarming rate even with the relief.
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Loaf of Bread
1970 25 cents
2018 2.38
The US is the Worlds #1 Wheat and Grain producer in the World. We have Silos with it sitting rotting away. That's over a 952% increase in cost. Well behind the wage increase.
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Average Wage
1970 9,400
2018 44,321
That's over a 400% increase.
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Cost per Lb of Hamburger
1970 70 cents
2018 4.68
Hamburger, like other cuts of meat, is over 660% higher today than in 1970. It has lost ground to wages. Overall, with the exception to milk, food has lost between 200 and 1000% to average wages. And that is considering Average Wage, not minimum wage. Minimum Wage is much, much worse.
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Cost of a new Home
1970 23,450
2018 325,500
So you want to buy a home? Good luck on the average wage with a family of 4. You really want me to do the percent comparison on this one? There is a reason that the younger people are, for the most part, electing to rent rather than buy. For the most part, the younger people make less than the average wage and after the other costs of living, can't afford the payments, insurance and taxes on a new house or even an older house.
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Some People are getting bloody rich on these deals. And it's not the average or below average consumer. Certainly not the min wage or even the average wage earner.

Over half of the Uber Rich supports the increasing of the Min Wage. They give the reason that it gives the poor (min wage) more portable income. There fore more money to spend on their products and services. But that's not all. It also means that the Rich can and will raise those services and products to take away any and all the gains that min wage gave to the worker while expecing the new min wage worker to do more purchasing of their goods and products. It's a very lucrative, short termed program. But in the end, the workers all lose ground exactly as I showed above. But the Rich just got richer.

I am against Min Wage for this reason. We don't need a Min Wage. We need a Living Wage. At the same time, we need a Consumer Group that has the power to drag these unscrupulous theives into civil courts and get them fined for unfair trade practice.

Ground meat of any kind is space food. Anyone who eats that shit is not thinking right, and anyone who feeds it to children should be charged with child abuse. If one wants to not make minimum wage, they need to find a better job. One that pays more. In this country, we are able to do shit so that we earn the money we want and don’t have to work at McDonalds or Walmart. If folks don’t want to be slaves, they need to stop acting like slaves.

 

[Picaro]

Wow, if you were working for minimum wage in 1970 and in 2018 you're still working for minimum wage; The problem isn't minimum wage.

the 'problem' is mass immigration, at the same time we're shipping as much of the high productivity jobs overseas as possible. The financial sector soaks up over 80% of income now, and none of it recirculates back down through the rest of the domestic economy. It sits at the top, which is why interests rates are low and anybody who saves their money is merely a fool and P/E ratios of 60 to 1 are not at all unusual these days, for instance. Time to shed about 130 millon people and invoke another moratorium on immigration like we had in the 1920 to 1965.

 

[Picaro]

The 'economy' produces mostly shit low productivity service industry jobs, most not even full time, and has for going on 2 decades now. Stop babbling the propaganda numbers about 'labor shortages' put out by Silly Con Valley con artists and universities who operate loan sharking businesses lying to people about 'what jobs are hot!!' and fake numbers about how much they pay. They're lying through their teeth, and have been for 50 years.

 

[Picaro]

We haven't had anything resembling real capitalism in a century, so the claim that all this "unfettered capitalism" is the problem is laughable.

This is true. We have had Socialism for the Rich' since around 1865. they get to privatize profits while socializing costs. there is no big corporation that wasn't a direct result of government benefits, except for a few, like John D. Rockefeller's and Woolworth's, and a few others in the retail end. Well never mind, since they all benefited greatly from the railroad subsidies and massive Federal giveaways to those owners. That's why Lincoln and the bankers need to destroy the South, to get them out of the way; they were the main opposition to Federally subsidized railroads and 'phony 'Homestead Acts' that complimented the railroad giveaways and other govt spending and tariffs that only benefited a few companies and bankers

 

[Markle]

I do my financial planning based on the gold standard. By that standard, minimum wage adjusted for inflation would fluctuate between $27-$31 an hour. That about matches real inflation, which is usually at least twice what the govt. routinely claims for those on the lower end of the income brackets. Note that for high incomes inflation is almost invisible re costs of living, and hits lower incomes much harder. Of course, people working three or four jobs per household and making $60K a year aren't 'middle class', but both the govt. and the right wingers can't bring themselves to say so when the minimum wage adjusted for inflation would be near that on just a forty hour work week. Even the left wing only supports around $15-$17 an hour numbers. On a gold standard minimum wage at a 40 hour work week would be $56K per year using the lower number.

We now have auto financing schemes running to 7 frigging years now, and people want to pretend the middle class isn't toast??? lol please.

Earth to Picaro, Earth to Picaro!

Ringback when you've returned to the real world!

 

[Markle]

It means if people want to hide under 'limited liability' laws the govt can limit their profit margins, as they did in the Founders' days. Corporations required state charters then, and if they wanted the benefits of limited liability and eminent domain rights they had to limit profits they could pay out as dividends. New York state limited them to 10% net gains, and they only granted such charters to enterprises that benefited the general public in some way, like railroads, canals, etc., i.e not just any idiot who applied for one. The rest had to actually risk their money, unlike today, where 'stockholders' have zero responsibilities and can't be held responsible for losses and debts of the business they own. this came about as result of the Civil War, and the most corrupt Supreme courts and Senate in our history, until today's, that is. The 'Gilded Age' cam along then.

As I said before, ringback when you decide to join the real world.

 

[sparky]

Central price controls of anything is an idiotic idea...Up to and including wages.

Not price control, profit control.

Even you don't believe that malarkey. You're just playing the Troll again.

You're incorrect.

You BELIEVE in "profit control"? Come on, you're joking. What does it even mean?

It means if people want to hide under 'limited liability' laws the govt can limit their profit margins, as they did in the Founders' days. Corporations required state charters then, and if they wanted the benefits of limited liability and eminent domain rights they had to limit profits they could pay out as dividends. New York state limited them to 10% net gains, and they only granted such charters to enterprises that benefited the general public in some way, like railroads, canals, etc., i.e not just any idiot who applied for one. The rest had to actually risk their money, unlike today, where 'stockholders' have zero responsibilities and can't be held responsible for losses and debts of the business they own. this came about as result of the Civil War, and the most corrupt Supreme courts and Senate in our history, until today's, that is. The 'Gilded Age' cam along then.

We haven't had anything resembling real capitalism in a century, so the claim that all this "unfettered capitalism" is the problem is laughable.

This is true. We have had Socialism for the Rich' since around 1865. they get to privatize profits while socializing costs. there is no big corporation that wasn't a direct result of government benefits, except for a few, like John D. Rockefeller's and Woolworth's, and a few others in the retail end. Well never mind, since they all benefited greatly from the railroad subsidies and massive Federal giveaways to those owners. That's why Lincoln and the bankers need to destroy the South, to get them out of the way; they were the main opposition to Federally subsidized railroads and 'phony 'Homestead Acts' that complimented the railroad giveaways and other govt spending and tariffs that only benefited a few companies and bankers

most interesting Picaro

~S~

 

[Wyatt earp]

Wow, if you were working for minimum wage in 1970 and in 2018 you're still working for minimum wage; The problem isn't minimum wage.

It would be interesting to meet the people who still make minimum wage after 6~months to a year of working the same job.


I have yet to run across one in the 54 years of my life.

.