Millionaires to Congress: Raise our taxes, please!

[ClosedCaption]

Voluntary donations wouldn't solve the debt BTW it has to be a collective effort. I mean, they want to contribute more and the cons are saying "no" to reducing the debt. Really?

 

[Robert]

'Corporate America is sitting on more cash than at any time in the past 30 years.'

Well No shit you think? now why not explain why that's likely the case....could it have to do with the uncertainty in the market or the insane polices of this administration such as NHC which unless funds are available will quickly bankrupt most company s Business are not risk intolerant they are Stupid Intolerant which this administration seems to generate on a daily basis fix that and we will see the money flow back into the market place.

Bush had the worst job creation of any president in the last 1/2 century not because he was a bad president, but because the middle class has seen a 30yr erosion of buying power. The postwar consumption economy was built upon the fact that American wages (supplanted by government assistance programs) translated into immense demand. In the absence of middle class buying power, the capitalist has no incentive to add jobs.

What happened to middle class buying power? In the 70s, American manufactures started seeing lower profits. So they poured money into the Republican party in order to reduce labor costs and cut social programs. This is when we started to see massive capital flight to 3rd world sweat-shops. Share holders of Nike and Levis saw a king's ransom, but the middle class lost solid jobs and buying power.

What did we do in the 80's when we realized that this war for lower labor costs was undermining middle class buying power? We started handing out more credit cards. Morning in America was actually a 30 year experiment of debt fueled consumption.

What happened when we our Master Cards and Visas could no longer drive the economy? We turned to the last source of wealth we had left: our homes.

Now we have nothing.

In conclusion: if you want a thriving domestic consumption economy, you can't do what business and Reagan did: you can't decrease the buying power of the middle class by systematically undermining their wages, benefits, and social programs. And you can't try to boost their diminished buying power through debt instruments.

Very simple

1945-1980: Postwar consumption economy. Government policies focus on middle class demand. They create the legislative conditions for high wages, benefits, and demand centered assistance programs. (as well as vigorous laws that prevented monopolies, anti-competitive mega mergers, and anti-consumer behavior. Let's not forget protectionism, like the kind Reagan enacted to protect the big 3 from cheap Japanese imports). Result of government investment in middle class demand: American economy sees 5% growth, greatest ever. 50-60s > the golden age of capitalism: all boats were lifted, not just a narrow enclave of corporations and their shareholders.

1980-2008: Government focuses on the suppliers ("Supply side economics"). Cut wages, benefits, regulations, and middle class assistance programs for the purpose of giving the suppliers tax breaks and less efficiency-sapping regulations. The premise: if you lighten the load of business, they will have more money for investment, innovation, and job creation.

1980-2008 Part II: The effort to give capitalists lower labor costs (so they can compete globally) means the middle class has less money to spend. Problem: the American economy was built on the premise that the middle class has x% money for consumption. How do we make up for the loss of consumtion power? Answer: credit cards (massive debt).

The Hard Truth: Son, we tried to fix the inherent flaw of Reaganomics (which lowered the compensation of the middle class, and thus lowered their buying power) with debt instruments. This is why we have so thoroughly financialized the economy: because when all the money concentrates in too few pockets, you need to create lots of phantom wealth, bubbles, and other fiats to fuel the economy.

America swallowed poison in 1980.

President Reagan entered the White House with an attitude of working honest deals with the Congress on spending. He wanted more defense spending, lower entitlement spending, lower tax rates which would boost the economy (and thus revenues) and seemed to achieve that agreement with Congress in both 1981 and 1982. However, despite getting concessions on taxes, congress never once cut spending, and the actual budgets were higher than what Reagan asked for 7 out of 8 years. This attitude of "cut spending later" helped continue the debt trends that began under Ford and Carter. By the end of Reagans terms, debt had increased by $2 trillion.

We've all heard the myth: President Reagan asked for far more spending than congress wanted and/or congress actually spent less than what Reagan asked for...yet the truth once again tells a different story.

Federal Budget Outlays
Proposed (Reagan) and Actual (Congress) and
Cumulative Percent Difference
(billions of dollars)
Fiscal Year Outlays Cumulative
Differences
Proposed Actual % Difference
1982 695.3 745.8 7.3 0.0
1983 773.3 808.4 4.5 12.1
1984 862.5 851.8 -1.2 10.8
1985 940.3 946.4 0.7 11.6
1986 973.7 990.3 1.7 13.5
1987 994.0 1003.9 1.0 14.6
1988 1024.3 1064.1 3.9 19.1
1989 1094.2 1144.2 4.6 24.5
Totals 7,357.6 7,554.9 Avg 2.8 Avg 3.1
Sources:
Budget Message of the President, FY's 81 to 89
Budget of the United States, FY 1993, Part 5, Table 1.3, page 5-18.
Proposed outlays for 1981 from 1981 FY 1982 Budget Revisions

So there you have it. On average, Congress spent 2.8% more than Reagan asked for, while the cumulative (yearly compounding rate) was a whopping 24.5% more. If the budget in 1989 had been 24.5% smaller (i.e., 280 billion dollars) there could have been a surplus of about 130 billion dollars instead of a deficit. This is equivalent to a constant compounding increase of 2.8% every year during the 8 budgets above and beyond the previous year's spending. If anyone still thinks that is not a significant amount, they should ask themselves whether a balanced budget in 1989 would have been significant.

If the cumulative column is not clear, visualize it as the acceleration of spending beyond what Reagan asked for. A 10% increase each year beyond what he asked for, for example, compounds to 1.1^7, or 1.95, which is 95% more, as opposed to 1 + 0.1*7 = 1.7, or 70% that some would say is the correct figure. In other words, each increase carries with it the excess spending from the previous year(s). It's also the same kind of math that causes programs with mandatory spending increases, no matter how small, to balloon after a few years. It's called geometric progression. For a nice graph of such a function, look at the growth in U.S. debt since 1974.

And so here we are today looking at exactly the same damn thing a Congress that will not CUT SPENDING does that look familiar to you does it ring a bell....It does with me only this time we really are broke and all we see is one side wanting to run up spending to levels that we will never recover from.

The Problem is one of Spending not Taxing

 

[kaz]

Well No shit you think? now why not explain why that's likely the case....could it have to do with the uncertainty in the market or the insane polices of this administration such as NHC which unless funds are available will quickly bankrupt most company s Business are not risk intolerant they are Stupid Intolerant which this administration seems to generate on a daily basis fix that and we will see the money flow back into the market place.

A huge portion of it is overseas and won't come back because government would take 30% of it. So it stays overseas. Don't you love the reality of Democrat strategies? They don't get the tax AND the money stays out of our economy. Which is just what always happens with the Democrats, they actually create the opposite of what they intended. On one hand they are morons, on the other hand they don't care. But other then that they're useless.

 

[Oddball]

Voluntary donations wouldn't solve the debt BTW it has to be a collective effort....

IOW, there are so few of the rich guys who are foolhardy enough to throw in with raising their own taxes it has to be a forced effort.

 

[Oddball]

As Warren Buffet so famously pointed out he pays less of a percentage in taxes than his Secretary.

These millionaires don't need you guys to defend them. They've got hoardes of lobbyists, accountants and politicians in their pockets.

.

And were it not for envious and avaricious little socialist turds, that money would most likely be directed toward productive and profitable pursuits instead.

Talk about enabling the people you claim to detest.

That sounds like the "envious and avaricious" attitude you direct towards working men and women that actually earn what they work for. But as it is you want to stomp down the trash collectors, teachers, road workers, etc.. You know, the ones who REALLY work at contributing to society.

.

Bite me...I'm one of those working people and I'm goddamn sick and tired of having my lifeblood sucked out by people who produce nothing.

In the meantime, greedy little turds like you keep erecting obstacles that cost me more of my productivity to pay for accountants, lawyers, and blood-sucking leech bureaucrats....All ostensibly "for the good of society".

 

[The T]

And were it not for envious and avaricious little socialist turds, that money would most likely be directed toward productive and profitable pursuits instead.

Talk about enabling the people you claim to detest.

That sounds like the "envious and avaricious" attitude you direct towards working men and women that actually earn what they work for. But as it is you want to stomp down the trash collectors, teachers, road workers, etc.. You know, the ones who REALLY work at contributing to society.

.

Bite me...I'm one of those working people and I'm goddamn sick and tired of having my lifeblood sucked out by people who produce nothing.

In the meantime, greedy little turds like you keep erecting obstacles that cost me more of my productivity to pay for accountants, lawyers, and blood-sucking leech bureaucrats....All ostensibly "for the good of society".

The takers keep pushing don't they?

 

[The T]

Shit? Why aren't these leeches just holding you up at the point of a gun...they think it's justified to have Gubmint do it for them...why not?

 

[California Girl]

And were it not for envious and avaricious little socialist turds, that money would most likely be directed toward productive and profitable pursuits instead.

Talk about enabling the people you claim to detest.

That sounds like the "envious and avaricious" attitude you direct towards working men and women that actually earn what they work for. But as it is you want to stomp down the trash collectors, teachers, road workers, etc.. You know, the ones who REALLY work at contributing to society.

.

Bite me...I'm one of those working people and I'm goddamn sick and tired of having my lifeblood sucked out by people who produce nothing.

In the meantime, greedy little turds like you keep erecting obstacles that cost me more of my productivity to pay for accountants, lawyers, and blood-sucking leech bureaucrats....All ostensibly "for the good of society".

And, no matter how much, they just keep coming back for more. Is it my fault our government can't live within our means? No. Did we ask them to spend us into oblivion? No. Just once, I would like to see our government take some fucking responsibility. Not one more dime until they can prove they can behave responsibly with other people's money.

 

[Oddball]

Shit? Why aren't these leeches just holding you up at the point of a gun...they think it's justified to have Gubmint do it for them...why not?

Because they're gutless little shits.

At least a street hood has the nerve to rob me to may face and doesn't bother with trying to guilt me into handing over my wallet.

 

[The T]

That sounds like the "envious and avaricious" attitude you direct towards working men and women that actually earn what they work for. But as it is you want to stomp down the trash collectors, teachers, road workers, etc.. You know, the ones who REALLY work at contributing to society.

.

Bite me...I'm one of those working people and I'm goddamn sick and tired of having my lifeblood sucked out by people who produce nothing.

In the meantime, greedy little turds like you keep erecting obstacles that cost me more of my productivity to pay for accountants, lawyers, and blood-sucking leech bureaucrats....All ostensibly "for the good of society".

And, no matter how much, they just keep coming back for more. Is it my fault our government can't live within our means? No. Did we ask them to spend us into oblivion? No. Just once, I would like to see our government take some fucking responsibility. Not one more dime until they can prove they can behave responsibly with other people's money.

Too bad responsibility isn't a preresquite for being elected...much less being a gubmint employee that is supposed to SERVE Those that pay the friggin' bills.

They just want more...And they say that the producers of their paychecks are greedy?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Think the GOP will listen?

"Patriotic Millionaires": Raise our taxes, please! - War Room - Salon.com

Patriotic Millionaires for Fiscal Strength, a group of dozens of the wealthiest Americans that formed last year during the fight over whether to extend the Bush tax cuts, is now jumping into the budget battle just as President Obama is expected to call for an end to the Bush cuts on the rich.

"For the fiscal health of our nation and the well-being of our fellow citizens, we ask that you increase taxes on incomes over $1,000,000," the group writes in a new letter to Obama, Harry Reid, and John Boehner. "We make this request as loyal citizens who now or in the past earned incomes of $1,000,000 per year or more."

Last year, Obama signed a bill to extend the Bush tax cuts after originally proposing that the two highest tax rates return to 36% and 39.6%, up from the Bush tax cut levels of 33% and 35%.

One of the signatories of the new letter, film and television producer Linda Gottlieb, explained her participation to me this morning: "For me to be sitting and hoarding my money is insane," said Gottlieb, whose producer credits include Dirty Dancing and who now teaches at NYU's Tisch school. "We all give to charity, but that's not the same as creating a more equitable society."

Gottlieb said she has been upset by the experience of her grandchildren, who attend a New York City public school where arts education has been cut and parents have had to organize an auction to try to fill the gaps. She added that raising taxes on the wealthiest people would be an important way of reducing the deficit.

"For rich people to moan and groan -- nobody likes to pay increased taxes -- but it's not going to change your life in any important way," she said. "What it can do is help your country."

The millionaires who comprise the group are in the process of reaching out to more of their wealthy peers and may take a trip to Washington at some point down the road, according to Erica Payne of the Agenda Project, the New York-based progressive group that is behind Patriotic Millionaires.

Considering that at most this can raise maybe $100 billion (how many taxpayers are there over $1M income?) this is nothing but a show. That would leave the other $1.2 TRILLION we are short this year.

Yeah, so......let's do nothin'....just like the last-10-years.

Great idea.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Think the GOP will listen?

Considering that at most this can raise maybe $100 billion (how many taxpayers are there over $1M income?) this is nothing but a show. That would leave the other $1.2 TRILLION we are short this year.

Progressives would rather ensure Misery For All in a suicidal attempt at Fairness instead of protecting Individual Liberty to chart one's course in life.

You should write soap-opera scripts.....or, help....

....The DICK; Armey do so!!
(...if he can be located.)

"Clearly, this is a job-killer in the short-run. The impact on job creation is going to be devastating."

 

[MaggieMae]

These sadly misguided people are perfectly free to make voluntary donations to the Federal Treasury. They don't need to wait for the tax rates to be changed for others to do this.

How do you know they don't?

 

[Lasher]

Think the GOP will listen?

"Patriotic Millionaires": Raise our taxes, please! - War Room - Salon.com

Patriotic Millionaires for Fiscal Strength, a group of dozens of the wealthiest Americans that formed last year during the fight over whether to extend the Bush tax cuts, is now jumping into the budget battle just as President Obama is expected to call for an end to the Bush cuts on the rich.

"For the fiscal health of our nation and the well-being of our fellow citizens, we ask that you increase taxes on incomes over $1,000,000," the group writes in a new letter to Obama, Harry Reid, and John Boehner. "We make this request as loyal citizens who now or in the past earned incomes of $1,000,000 per year or more."

Last year, Obama signed a bill to extend the Bush tax cuts after originally proposing that the two highest tax rates return to 36% and 39.6%, up from the Bush tax cut levels of 33% and 35%.

One of the signatories of the new letter, film and television producer Linda Gottlieb, explained her participation to me this morning: "For me to be sitting and hoarding my money is insane," said Gottlieb, whose producer credits include Dirty Dancing and who now teaches at NYU's Tisch school. "We all give to charity, but that's not the same as creating a more equitable society."

Gottlieb said she has been upset by the experience of her grandchildren, who attend a New York City public school where arts education has been cut and parents have had to organize an auction to try to fill the gaps. She added that raising taxes on the wealthiest people would be an important way of reducing the deficit.

"For rich people to moan and groan -- nobody likes to pay increased taxes -- but it's not going to change your life in any important way," she said. "What it can do is help your country."

The millionaires who comprise the group are in the process of reaching out to more of their wealthy peers and may take a trip to Washington at some point down the road, according to Erica Payne of the Agenda Project, the New York-based progressive group that is behind Patriotic Millionaires.

How many of the people who earn over a million a year do those idiotic people speak for? Very few,I would suspect.

 

[MaggieMae]

It's symbolic gesture. And seeing as how the right love their symbols, I would think they would eagerly embrace it.

Exactly. I can't think of a better way to demonstrate their "Individual Liberty" which is so highly touted by the right as being the path to wealth and happiness.

 

[Charles_Main]

Think the GOP will listen?

"Patriotic Millionaires": Raise our taxes, please! - War Room - Salon.com

Patriotic Millionaires for Fiscal Strength, a group of dozens of the wealthiest Americans that formed last year during the fight over whether to extend the Bush tax cuts, is now jumping into the budget battle just as President Obama is expected to call for an end to the Bush cuts on the rich.

"For the fiscal health of our nation and the well-being of our fellow citizens, we ask that you increase taxes on incomes over $1,000,000," the group writes in a new letter to Obama, Harry Reid, and John Boehner. "We make this request as loyal citizens who now or in the past earned incomes of $1,000,000 per year or more."

Last year, Obama signed a bill to extend the Bush tax cuts after originally proposing that the two highest tax rates return to 36% and 39.6%, up from the Bush tax cut levels of 33% and 35%.

One of the signatories of the new letter, film and television producer Linda Gottlieb, explained her participation to me this morning: "For me to be sitting and hoarding my money is insane," said Gottlieb, whose producer credits include Dirty Dancing and who now teaches at NYU's Tisch school. "We all give to charity, but that's not the same as creating a more equitable society."

Gottlieb said she has been upset by the experience of her grandchildren, who attend a New York City public school where arts education has been cut and parents have had to organize an auction to try to fill the gaps. She added that raising taxes on the wealthiest people would be an important way of reducing the deficit.

"For rich people to moan and groan -- nobody likes to pay increased taxes -- but it's not going to change your life in any important way," she said. "What it can do is help your country."

The millionaires who comprise the group are in the process of reaching out to more of their wealthy peers and may take a trip to Washington at some point down the road, according to Erica Payne of the Agenda Project, the New York-based progressive group that is behind Patriotic Millionaires.

Considering that at most this can raise maybe $100 billion (how many taxpayers are there over $1M income?) this is nothing but a show. That would leave the other $1.2 TRILLION we are short this year.

he Deficit this year was 1.6 Trillion. So that's 1.5 Trillion short, not 1.2

 

[MaggieMae]

I saw an article speaking to this a few weeks ago. There is a mechanism via the IRS form/site by which folks can send in contributions strictly for the deficit......know how much has been given so far this year?

2011 - (It's only April) $645,917

2010 - $2,840,466

2009 - $3,063,057

Government - Gift Contributions to Reduce Debt Held by the Public

 

[Lasher]

Shit? Why aren't these leeches just holding you up at the point of a gun

A lot of them are.

...they think it's justified to have Gubmint do it for them...why not?

Why not indeed?

 

[Lasher]

PFFFT!

Let the assholes send in extra, if they don't think they're getting taxed enough.

They only speak for their piddling "dozens" if that many, while there are thousands who are in the same brackets who have not insisted on the government robbing them of more of their property.

 

[MaggieMae]

As Warren Buffet so famously pointed out he pays less of a percentage in taxes than his Secretary.

These millionaires don't need you guys to defend them. They've got hoardes of lobbyists, accountants and politicians in their pockets.

.

And were it not for envious and avaricious little socialist turds, that money would most likely be directed toward productive and profitable pursuits instead.

Talk about enabling the people you claim to detest.

You mean like the rich used it productively for the last 10 years? Where? Do we have new manufacturing plants? New technology labs? A slew of charter schools? Was there trickle down and I just missed reading about it?