Military victory is no longer possible in Iraq

[Redhots]

Is that what you think?

Well it doesn't.

The point being that if A shares certian aspects with B and C it does not mean A, B, & C are the same.

How many Nazis were white?

Are you white?

If you are its a good bet you're a Nazi.

Thats the logic being used in response of my question: How many of the hijackers were from Iraq.

FWIW Osama bin Laden is a radical Wahhabist which is practiced mainly in Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

 

[Hobbit]

Is that what you think?

Well it doesn't.

The point being that if A shares certian aspects with B and C it does not mean A, B, & C are the same.

How many Nazis were white?

Are you white?

If you are its a good bet you're a Nazi.

Thats the logic being used in response of my question: How many of the hijackers were from Iraq.

FWIW Osama bin Laden is a radical Wahhabist which is practiced mainly in Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

I'm not German, so no chance of Naziism there. One undeniable truth is that while not all Muslims are terrorists, nearly all terrorists are Muslims, and mainstream TV in the Middle East tells 8 year olds to kill Americans and Jews. As such, I want anybody associated with those countries watched a little more carefully than the rest of us. If I was an Arab Muslim, I would expect no less.

As for invading Iraq, did you forget Saddam flipping us the bird by violating the terms of its surrender? How about the Al-Qaida and other camps located in the country? What about Saddam's suicide bomber pension plan? Guess none of that matters so long as you can feel tolerant and bash the president. Way to be a tool.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Yes...Yes...Yes...And guess what!?! (I'll write slowly so you understand...) Al Qaeda...wasn't...there...before...the...US...invasion...and...occupation...of...Iraq.

Had we kept our focus on Afghanistan and not allowed Taliban and Al Qaeda leaders to escape, this would all be a moot point. But we didn't, and now we've a mess of colossal and historic proportions to clean up.

Who ever said al quiada was in Iraq, or that was the reason for going there?

My 11 year old read your statement and asked me, " I thought it was a war on terrorism, not al quiada"?

She was serious, she isnt aware enough yet to know that even adults can ask disengeniously STUPID questions.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

In case you don't remember, after Gulf War I, Poppy Bush promised support to the Arabs in Southern Iraq who were rising up against Saddam's regime. Instead, all they got was to be left swinging in the breeze as Saddam's helicopter gunships and cargo chopers full of troops entered the putative "'No-fly Zone" over southern Iraq. There, they proceeded to slaughter the rebels against Saddam.

And you might want to review your history of the Viet Nam conflict. Sounds like you got most of it from Sean Hannity's talking points.

I dont listen to sean, idiot. Assumptions is one of your big problems. And if there is anything wrong with my historical statements about nam, point them out please.

What you said about PRESIDENT Bush is irrlevant.

Try again to answer the question and quit playing dodgeball, that game is for grade schoolers.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Is that what you think?

Well it doesn't.

The point being that if A shares certian aspects with B and C it does not mean A, B, & C are the same.

How many Nazis were white?

Are you white?

If you are its a good bet you're a Nazi.

Thats the logic being used in response of my question: How many of the hijackers were from Iraq.

FWIW Osama bin Laden is a radical Wahhabist which is practiced mainly in Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

Your first analogy was terrible, and the second wasnt any better.

We dont target all arabs. So, being white isnt enough to have one think you are a high percentage candidate to be a nazi.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Bully does have a point, as sick as that makes me.

The situation in Iraq is unwinnable as currently being ran. The administration has from the beginning paid far too much attention to the pc pacifist crowd and to the antiquated document called the Geneva Convention, it has tied the hands of the generals on the ground to actually fight war and left the troops as sitting ducks on a pond.

I'm no quitter but if the strategy isn't changed to total war soon instead of this bullshit itty bitty patrol strategy, and I believe it won't change, then its time to come home because I don't believe anymore lives are worth Bush's halfassing this war.

Maybe after we leave and the ensuing shithole civil war takes place and the Taliban and Al Qaeda make Iraq their base of operations and we are attacked here a few more times, maybe then and only then will the administration and all these anti-American opposition assholes see that their treasanous opposition to the war and undermining of the effort was a catastrophe.

You need to read more of what the troops over there are saying. They are going back in record numbers, so apparently they dont think we are losing.

The reason they have to cater to the pc crowd is because they have to win elections in order to stay in power and conduct the war. Heaven forbid a Dem would be in office during a 9/11 attack. Could you see Carter? He would probably impose an embargo.

Lastly, those pc freaks are delusional. We only sometimes think they may realize their mistakes because we look at them through our prism of ourselves. thinking that any reasonable person can see when theyve made a terrible blunder. But its simply not true with those brain dead cretons. They will never admit they are wrong, never. They already have some issues proven wrong to them, but they still wont admit it.

 

[Gunny]

Apples and oranges...

Not at all.

 

[Gunny]

Oh come on, you can dodge better than that.

Anywho, Islam, radical and otherwise, is just as fractured a religion as Christianity.

If tomarrow morning many prohibition Baptists went batshit crazy and started killing anyone they saw drinking it wouldn't make much sense to start raiding Lutheran churches would it?

Incorrect. If a group of Baptists went batshit crazy and started killing anyone they saw drinking, Christian groups would be lining up to have their denouncements of said actions posted on Page One. The people of our nation would neither turn a blind eye to them nor their actions, nor allow them to hide in our midst, and law enforcement would take whatever steps necessary to stop them and they would be tried and convicted for their crimes.

So yeah, I'd say there's no comparison between radical Islam and any militant Christian organizations that may exist in the US.

BTW, pointing out your puposeful attempt at misdirection is not a "dodge."

 

[Gunny]

Is that what you think?

Well it doesn't.

The point being that if A shares certian aspects with B and C it does not mean A, B, & C are the same.

How many Nazis were white?

Are you white?

If you are its a good bet you're a Nazi.

Thats the logic being used in response of my question: How many of the hijackers were from Iraq.

FWIW Osama bin Laden is a radical Wahhabist which is practiced mainly in Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

Your question is attempted misdirection for the purpose of supporting your stance against the invasion of Iraq. In the laundry list of reasons given for invading Iraq, that one or more of the 9/11 hijackers was Iraqi ISN'T one; therefore, your question is irrelevant.

The fact that Osama is a Wahabbi and where they come from means nothing. Arab culture itself, without the religion, teaches hatred and distrust for the West, and the US in particular. It isn't just a war of religious intolerance but one of cultural intolerance as well. The fact that non-Arabs are on Arab land is what spurred bin Laden to attack. His religious fanaticism is merely the means in which he used to carry it out.

 

[akiboy]

Yes...Yes...Yes...And guess what!?! (I'll write slowly so you understand...) Al Qaeda...wasn't...there...before...the...US...invasion...and...occupation...of...Iraq.

Had we kept our focus on Afghanistan and not allowed Taliban and Al Qaeda leaders to escape, this would all be a moot point. But we didn't, and now we've a mess of colossal and historic proportions to clean up.

I agree Al Qaeda wasen't there before the Iraq invasion as Saddam never had a liking for radical Islam and jihad and stuff like that especially the violent form of Wahhabism shown by Osama and his cronies.
But right now the terroists in Iraq causing insurgency are mainly from minor terror groups which are one way or the other linked to Al Qaeda.

Suppose America had focused completely on Afhanistan and caught Bin Laden and the Taliban gang there still would be Iraq , Iran and N.Korea to take care of. Saddam would have started a new and more agrresive nuclear program , Iran also as we can now see is enriching uranium at a fast pace and N.Korea has already tested a nuke..So , even if Bin Laden was caught terror attacks would surely stop but there would be three lunatic and suicidal regimes to take care of.

Akshay

 

[Gunny]

I agree Al Qaeda wasen't there before the Iraq invasion as Saddam never had a liking for radical Islam and jihad and stuff like that especially the violent form of Wahhabism shown by Osama and his cronies.
But right now the terroists in Iraq causing insurgency are mainly from minor terror groups which are one way or the other linked to Al Qaeda.

Suppose America had focused completely on Afhanistan and caught Bin Laden and the Taliban gang there still would be Iraq , Iran and N.Korea to take care of. Saddam would have started a new and more agrresive nuclear program , Iran also as we can now see is enriching uranium at a fast pace and N.Korea has already tested a nuke..So , even if Bin Laden was caught terror attacks would surely stop but there would be three lunatic and suicidal regimes to take care of.

Akshay

Hardly. There's someone waiting to step in and fill his shoes the second he's gone.

 

[akiboy]

Hardly. There's someone waiting to step in and fill his shoes the second he's gone.

Like who ? Zarqaawi is dead ... who else ??

 

[Said1]

Like who ? Zarqaawi is dead ... who else ??

Like any corporation, there's probably zillions of peons trying to claw their way to the top. Unfortunatly, they don't post their bios on headquarters web site.

 

[Gunny]

Like who ? Zarqaawi is dead ... who else ??

Not being in the AQ chain of command, I couldn't tell you who. But you can tell me which terrorist organization has closed up shop and gone home when its leader was killed?

Zarqawi was killed .... and replaced just as fast. Someone will just move up if and when bin Laden is gone.

 

[OCA]

Starting the war in the first place was the catastrophe...

O.K. pacifist appeaser.

 

[OCA]

You need to read more of what the troops over there are saying. They are going back in record numbers, so apparently they dont think we are losing.

The reason they have to cater to the pc crowd is because they have to win elections in order to stay in power and conduct the war. Heaven forbid a Dem would be in office during a 9/11 attack. Could you see Carter? He would probably impose an embargo.

Lastly, those pc freaks are delusional. We only sometimes think they may realize their mistakes because we look at them through our prism of ourselves. thinking that any reasonable person can see when theyve made a terrible blunder. But its simply not true with those brain dead cretons. They will never admit they are wrong, never. They already have some issues proven wrong to them, but they still wont admit it.

Sure you can find grunts on the ground who think we are winning, whatever winning means as of today, but to say that any progress is being made is to simply deny the reality that is Iraq today. Civil war, ethnic cleansing and the disintegration of Iraq is currently full steam away, Democracy is a failure there, it will never succeed because the people don't want it and because we were not forceful enough in forcing it upon them. We've halfassed this thing from the get go, shit more than half the country is not under U.S. control after 4 years, hell in the same amount of time we smoked the Third Reich and the Japs.

To deny our current strategy's failure is................i'm at a loss for words...........I guess denial and delusion come to mind.

Could you please produce some of these letters or some stats that say a majority of U.S. troops in Iraq think the current strategy is a winner or that hell, we are even making any progress?

 

[OCA]

3,709 deaths in Iraq attributeable to sectarian strife in the month of October alone.............more than 9/11. Is this what we call progress? What we call control?

The number came from Reuters and for some reason or another I couldn't cut and paste the link but the number is verfiably the same from several different sources.

A change is needed in strategy or its time to go and quit halfassing it.

 

[Gunny]

Sure you can find grunts on the ground who think we are winning, whatever winning means as of today, but to say that any progress is being made is to simply deny the reality that is Iraq today. Civil war, ethnic cleansing and the disintegration of Iraq is currently full steam away, Democracy is a failure there, it will never succeed because the people don't want it and because we were not forceful enough in forcing it upon them. We've halfassed this thing from the get go, shit more than half the country is not under U.S. control after 4 years, hell in the same amount of time we smoked the Third Reich and the Japs.

To deny our current strategy's failure is................i'm at a loss for words...........I guess denial and delusion come to mind.

Could you please produce some of these letters or some stats that say a majority of U.S. troops in Iraq think the current strategy is a winner or that hell, we are even making any progress?

Delusion comes to mind for anyone who ever thought we would establish a Western-style democracy with Arabs. It's proof of ignorance in the divide between their culture and ours.

A quasi-democracy would be the best that could be hoped for, and I completely agree that the people have to want it for it have even a chance of working.

And as long as those verysame people refuse to confront groups of people willing to use terror and force to achieve their religious/political goals, they are doomed to be sheep, existing at the whim of the wolves.

We need to step up our agressiveness toward the radical Islamofascists, and at the same time, deliver an ultimatum to the Iraqi people that if they are unwilling to defend the freedom we have given them, then the clock is going to run out real quick on our doing it for them.

We beat the Germans and Japanese by waging a total war without political considerations trumping military goals until the very end. Martial law was established and borders strictly controlled. The general populace had little choice but do it our way.

A successful strategy that has been abandoned since due to politics and appeasement of whiners.

 

[OCA]

Delusion comes to mind for anyone who ever thought we would establish a Western-style democracy with Arabs. It's proof of ignorance in the divide between their culture and ours.

A quasi-democracy would be the best that could be hoped for, and I completely agree that the people have to want it for it have even a chance of working.

And as long as those verysame people refuse to confront groups of people willing to use terror and force to achieve their religious/political goals, they are doomed to be sheep, existing at the whim of the wolves.

We need to step up our agressiveness toward the radical Islamofascists, and at the same time, deliver an ultimatum to the Iraqi people that if they are unwilling to defend the freedom we have given them, then the clock is going to run out real quick on our doing it for them.

We beat the Germans and Japanese by waging a total war without political considerations trumping military goals until the very end. Martial law was established and borders strictly controlled. The general populace had little choice but do it our way.

A successful strategy that has been abandoned since due to politics and appeasement of whiners.

Gunny you and I agree that politics has fucked this deal up from the get go. No attention should be paid to the pc crowd, elections or no elections(as some pseudo-Repubs have claimed here) because victory cannot be achieved when shackles are put on victory itself.

Would you also agree that the military exists only to achieve a MILITARY victory and not to help bring factions together to form a government in some sort of social lovein exercise?

 

[Gunny]

Gunny you and I agree that politics has fucked this deal up from the get go. No attention should be paid to the pc crowd, elections or no elections(as some pseudo-Repubs have claimed here) because victory cannot be achieved when shackles are put on victory itself.

Would you also agree that the military exists only to achieve a MILITARY victory and not to help bring factions together to form a government in some sort of social lovein exercise?

I've said from the beginning the military is being misused. We're trained to go out and take shit, and destroy anything that gets in between us and the shit.

Using our military forces as glorified cops takes away our military advantage and puts our troops on the skyline as targets. To make it worse, any time they do take action the left-wingnuts start crying "foul."

The only way the military should be used in this situation is if they declare martial law and let the military strictly enforce it WITHOUT political consideration trumping strategy and tactics.

And screw that love-in shit. That's THEIR problem. They can square it away or the military does it for them most likely in a manner neither side is going to like.