Military General Bashes Obama Administration

[hortysir]

I'd thought Ollie had run for President, but it was the Senate:

Published: February 28, 1994

ARLINGTON, Va., Feb. 27— When Oliver L. North announced his candidacy for the United States Senate a month ago, his starring role in the Iran-contra scandal and his hard-right politics were expected to excite his loyalists and incite his opponents.

 

[Foxfyre]

I'd thought Ollie had run for President, but it was the Senate:

Published: February 28, 1994

ARLINGTON, Va., Feb. 27— When Oliver L. North announced his candidacy for the United States Senate a month ago, his starring role in the Iran-contra scandal and his hard-right politics were expected to excite his loyalists and incite his opponents.

Oh yeah. That's right. He lost to who. Robb? Or Warner? Or Warner endorsed Robb? Or something like that. At any rate both the Republican and Democrat candidate got less than 50% of the vote and North came up on the short end. He would have won, but at the last minute Nancy Reagan was quoted as saying that "North had lied to her husband" or something like that. And North didn't have time to recover from the negative publicity generated by that. One of Reagan's few faux pas was the appearance of throwing North under the bus and North was not one to take that lying down.

 

[JakeStarkey]

North would have certainly given us a Hallmark moment when he raised his hand to swear into office. Every last one of us would have thought, "Is Ollie telling the truth this time?" Sorry, gang, Ollie North was and is a loser, similar to Gordon Liddy. Nothing has ever been done since then to erase the the stain and shame of their behavior.

 

[MaggieMae]

Maggie,

I have read it. I can say that I think the President is letting the Media dictate the outcome of this issue. General McChrystal really did not do anything wrong from what I read, even his advisers did nothing wrong.

I don't know much about General McChrystal and have no reason to support him, but I think this whole thing looks utterly ridiculous. This is like benching your star hitter because he said the owner of the team doesn't even know his name.

Immie

Let's just leave it that I can't, in my wildest imagination, see General Patreaus going public like that. McChrystal is a fine soldier, but he abandoned his integrity.

 

[MaggieMae]

Edit: What I wrote in this box here was out of line, and I apologize.

Having written the above, I can say, Yes, I have known several senior officers who seemingly cannot keep their mouths shut around the press and bristle at working with civilian seniors.

That conflict is as old as time itself.

 

[MaggieMae]

Listening to a local call in show. Speculation is that McChrystal wasn't getting the attention to the dire situation in Afghanistan that he needed from the administraton and Congressional oversight committees and this is the way he got it. And though he definitely has our attention now, that strikes me as a bit far fetched.

But I can believe that if he felt betrayed by the Administration and Congress, he might not have wanted to continue in the position. He was losing people and I'm guess he knew that much of that loss wasn't necessary, but he was not allowed to do what was necessary to prevent it. And if he opposed the Kandahar initiative as was planned from Washington. . . .well you get my drift. But the speculation continues among the civilian populations.

We probably won't know until he writes his book.

But one thing everybody, civilian and ex-military agree on, once he is retired, he will be free to express his opinion freely uniless it is something classified. And some are looking forward to that a lot.

Some are looking forward to drafting him to run for President in 2012.

Ask Ollie North how that worked out for him

Ollie is doing great though. Since he retired from the Marines, he wrote a best seller, he has a documentary style history program on Fox News that he dearly loves, and has all kinds of free time to pursue other interests.

His situation and McChrystal's situations were entirely different, however. Ollie was betrayed by people he trusted, falsely accused of crimes he did not commit, convicted on flimsy evidence during testimony for which he had been given immunity, and subsequently had that conviction overturned by a judge who knew it. He absolutely shredded the Congress who tried to hang him in those hearings.

Did Ollie ever run for public office? I don't recall that he did.

You are so completely, positively, absolutely WRONG in your assessment of Iran-Contra, I can't even go there. Please refresh your history. Even strong supporters of that awful deal at the time wouldn't go as far as your glowing comments.

 

[Foxfyre]

Ask Ollie North how that worked out for him

Ollie is doing great though. Since he retired from the Marines, he wrote a best seller, he has a documentary style history program on Fox News that he dearly loves, and has all kinds of free time to pursue other interests.

His situation and McChrystal's situations were entirely different, however. Ollie was betrayed by people he trusted, falsely accused of crimes he did not commit, convicted on flimsy evidence during testimony for which he had been given immunity, and subsequently had that conviction overturned by a judge who knew it. He absolutely shredded the Congress who tried to hang him in those hearings.

Did Ollie ever run for public office? I don't recall that he did.

You are so completely, positively, absolutely WRONG in your assessment of Iran-Contra, I can't even go there. Please refresh your history. Even strong supporters of that awful deal at the time wouldn't go as far as your glowing comments.

I didn't mention Iran Contra because it did not apply to the comments I made. Nor at any time in my participation on USMB have I EVER made any assessment of any kind re Iran Contra. While I agree we can't even go there in this discussion, it's pretty hard to be wrong about it when I have never expressed an opinion about it, glowing or otherwise.

I did, however, watch virtually ever minute of the Congressional hearings with Ollie North and I have read all his books plus some other people's books related to that era. So I think I have a pretty good grasp of the situation and am capable of seeing it without partisan blinders or ideological tunnel vision being involved.

Ollie was NOT convicted of participation in Iran Contra or any other of the controversial issues in which he was involved. He was convicted for accepting a security fence judged to be an illegal gift (plus he changed the date on the receipt for the fence), shredding classified douments, and lying to Congress (or that was effectively what they got him for) all of which were freely admitted by him and all of which were overturned by a federal judge because all were admitted with full immunity granted to him by Congress.

And he does have a a regular history program on Fox every week and he has written several best sellers and he is doing just fine.

Quarrel with that if you think you have a case.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Quarrel with you that a serving line officer of the U.S. Marine Corps betrayed his oath when he lied to Congress? I wouldn't think of it.

Ollie's actions were despicable, and he has never apologized for them. No forgiveness for him.

 

[Immanuel]

Quarrel with you that a serving line officer of the U.S. Marine Corps betrayed his oath when he lied to Congress? I wouldn't think of it.

Ollie's actions were despicable, and he has never apologized for them. No forgiveness for him.

There is forgiveness for all who seek it... well, maybe not for some of you out there.

Immie

 

[JakeStarkey]

Ollie is unforgivable politically and culturally until he admits he was not only wrong but criminally wrong, that he put his ideology above an officer's oath to the Constitution. But he lied because he was scared not because he was defending the Constitution. Poor pitiful Ollie.

 

[bodecea]

Hmm, Insubordination to a superior officer or worse if true?

Obama IS the generals supreme commanding officer.

Such unprofessional behaviour.. tsk tsk

bingo.

if the story is true, they should strip him of at LEAST one star and drum him out of the service.

Watch him run for office.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Just as Obama gets the blame for causing the oil spill, now you idiots want to blame him for failed military strategy in Afghanistan like he should actually be there leading the charge? Get real. The real irony of the Afghanistan situation is that it's the REPUBLICANS who were all in favor of the McChrystal/Patreaus strategy!! Imagine that.

Damn Maggie, Obama is at fault for any failed strategies in Afghanistan. They are his strategies. He is the Commander in Chief, he approved the strategies, and took his sweet ass time about doing so.Talking about the oil leak, the slow Federal response is also his fault. It was Bush's fault 4 days after Katrina. today is what? Day 65?

You Obama worshipers need to wake the hell up.

Obama (and Bush) need(ed) to accept responsibility, but the Afghanistan policy was not DESIGNED by Obama, which was my point, period.

There was NO "slow" federal response to the oil spill. The "response" played out according to the real-time information from the ground (or the sea) that was being received. "The government" was not equipped to go racing off down to the Gulf of Mexico, peer into the ocean's depths and announce what was happening and how it would be dealt with. They relied on the best information they had from <gasp> private entities, i.e., BP, Halliburton, and Oceanic.

Uhhhhh....what rock have you been sleeping under.....Obama has FULLY accepted the responsibility for the wars we are in....he did it when he was sworn in as the CinC...the strategy IS HIS AND HIS ALONE...why do you think McCrystal resigned...because he was a Bush blamer and hater?
Funny how you ODS types are real quick to cut Obama slack for his self admitted failure to respond in a timely manner in the gulf oil spill disaster and bash Bush for not air dropping plasma TV's, strippers, crack cocaine, Mastercard debit cards and Dom Perignon champagne to the people in the Super Dome.

Keep drinking the Kool-Aid....

 

[Intense]

Ollie is unforgivable politically and culturally until he admits he was not only wrong but criminally wrong, that he put his ideology above an officer's oath to the Constitution. But he lied because he was scared not because he was defending the Constitution. Poor pitiful Ollie.

Just because Ollie wouldn't share a shower with you, you should not hold a grudge Jake.

Ollie won't hold it against you, so I won't. Get over it Son. Some people you just can't have.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Ollie is unforgivable politically and culturally until he admits he was not only wrong but criminally wrong, that he put his ideology above an officer's oath to the Constitution. But he lied because he was scared not because he was defending the Constitution. Poor pitiful Ollie.

Just because Ollie wouldn't share a shower with you, you should not hold a grudge Jake.

Ollie won't hold it against you, so I won't. Get over it Son. Some people you just can't have.

Ollie betrayed his commission, Intense, and never has even apologized, so, no, he does not get a break. That's why I am on Stephanie here like white on rice: she admitted lying and acted like it was no big deal. I have no use for such people.

 

[Foxfyre]

Ollie is unforgivable politically and culturally until he admits he was not only wrong but criminally wrong, that he put his ideology above an officer's oath to the Constitution. But he lied because he was scared not because he was defending the Constitution. Poor pitiful Ollie.

Just because Ollie wouldn't share a shower with you, you should not hold a grudge Jake.

Ollie won't hold it against you, so I won't. Get over it Son. Some people you just can't have.

Those who embrace the Leftist dogma and spin on all that usually do continue to focus on the personalities and bash them. And Ollie North is a favorite target for that.

But if you really read the histories that he has provided plus the more objective analysis of what actually went down through all that written by others, you may or may not approve of what was attempted--I still have not provided my opinion about that--but you come away with a strong impression that Ollie North was not an evil man and in fact was a patriot. And the fact that he was never stripped of rank or benefits suggests that the Administration, though they accused him, and the military knew they had no basis with which to censure him.

And he is a really interesting personality and is a bottomless pit of information spanning a particularly interesting period in American history.

 

[MaggieMae]

Ollie is doing great though. Since he retired from the Marines, he wrote a best seller, he has a documentary style history program on Fox News that he dearly loves, and has all kinds of free time to pursue other interests.

His situation and McChrystal's situations were entirely different, however. Ollie was betrayed by people he trusted, falsely accused of crimes he did not commit, convicted on flimsy evidence during testimony for which he had been given immunity, and subsequently had that conviction overturned by a judge who knew it. He absolutely shredded the Congress who tried to hang him in those hearings.

Did Ollie ever run for public office? I don't recall that he did.

You are so completely, positively, absolutely WRONG in your assessment of Iran-Contra, I can't even go there. Please refresh your history. Even strong supporters of that awful deal at the time wouldn't go as far as your glowing comments.

I didn't mention Iran Contra because it did not apply to the comments I made. Nor at any time in my participation on USMB have I EVER made any assessment of any kind re Iran Contra. While I agree we can't even go there in this discussion, it's pretty hard to be wrong about it when I have never expressed an opinion about it, glowing or otherwise.

I did, however, watch virtually ever minute of the Congressional hearings with Ollie North and I have read all his books plus some other people's books related to that era. So I think I have a pretty good grasp of the situation and am capable of seeing it without partisan blinders or ideological tunnel vision being involved.

Ollie was NOT convicted of participation in Iran Contra or any other of the controversial issues in which he was involved. He was convicted for accepting a security fence judged to be an illegal gift (plus he changed the date on the receipt for the fence), shredding classified douments, and lying to Congress (or that was effectively what they got him for) all of which were freely admitted by him and all of which were overturned by a federal judge because all were admitted with full immunity granted to him by Congress.

And he does have a a regular history program on Fox every week and he has written several best sellers and he is doing just fine.

Quarrel with that if you think you have a case.

Well, when you make statements like "Ollie was NOT convicted of participation in Iran Contra," I suppose my assumption was that you felt he was as innocent of any participation, which of course then leads to your subtle acknowledgement(?) that you thought the deal itself was not illegal. North, in his book, actually threw Reagan under the bus:

"Ronald Reagan knew of and approved a great deal of what went on with both the Iranian initiative and private efforts on behalf of the contras and he received regular, detailed briefings on both." Mr. North also writes: "I have no doubt that he was told about the use of residuals for the contras, and that he approved it. Enthusiastically."

^from the Wiki entry on Iran-Contra.

 

[MaggieMae]

Ollie is unforgivable politically and culturally until he admits he was not only wrong but criminally wrong, that he put his ideology above an officer's oath to the Constitution. But he lied because he was scared not because he was defending the Constitution. Poor pitiful Ollie.

Just because Ollie wouldn't share a shower with you, you should not hold a grudge Jake.

Ollie won't hold it against you, so I won't. Get over it Son. Some people you just can't have.

Those who embrace the Leftist dogma and spin on all that usually do continue to focus on the personalities and bash them. And Ollie North is a favorite target for that.

But if you really read the histories that he has provided plus the more objective analysis of what actually went down through all that written by others, you may or may not approve of what was attempted--I still have not provided my opinion about that--but you come away with a strong impression that Ollie North was not an evil man and in fact was a patriot. And the fact that he was never stripped of rank or benefits suggests that the Administration, though they accused him, and the military knew they had no basis with which to censure him.

And he is a really interesting personality and is a bottomless pit of information spanning a particularly interesting period in American history.

Although I'm sure he's not evil, he did come out smelling like a rose. At the time, Americans were riding the popular wave of patriotism a' la Ronald Reagan, and the Senate in 1986 was comprised of a majority of Republicans. There was no way in hell they were going to even give Oliver North anything more than a slap on the wrist.

 

[Foxfyre]

You are so completely, positively, absolutely WRONG in your assessment of Iran-Contra, I can't even go there. Please refresh your history. Even strong supporters of that awful deal at the time wouldn't go as far as your glowing comments.

I didn't mention Iran Contra because it did not apply to the comments I made. Nor at any time in my participation on USMB have I EVER made any assessment of any kind re Iran Contra. While I agree we can't even go there in this discussion, it's pretty hard to be wrong about it when I have never expressed an opinion about it, glowing or otherwise.

I did, however, watch virtually ever minute of the Congressional hearings with Ollie North and I have read all his books plus some other people's books related to that era. So I think I have a pretty good grasp of the situation and am capable of seeing it without partisan blinders or ideological tunnel vision being involved.

Ollie was NOT convicted of participation in Iran Contra or any other of the controversial issues in which he was involved. He was convicted for accepting a security fence judged to be an illegal gift (plus he changed the date on the receipt for the fence), shredding classified douments, and lying to Congress (or that was effectively what they got him for) all of which were freely admitted by him and all of which were overturned by a federal judge because all were admitted with full immunity granted to him by Congress.

And he does have a a regular history program on Fox every week and he has written several best sellers and he is doing just fine.

Quarrel with that if you think you have a case.

Well, when you make statements like "Ollie was NOT convicted of participation in Iran Contra," I suppose my assumption was that you felt he was as innocent of any participation, which of course then leads to your subtle acknowledgement(?) that you thought the deal itself was not illegal. North, in his book, actually threw Reagan under the bus:

"Ronald Reagan knew of and approved a great deal of what went on with both the Iranian initiative and private efforts on behalf of the contras and he received regular, detailed briefings on both." Mr. North also writes: "I have no doubt that he was told about the use of residuals for the contras, and that he approved it. Enthusiastically."

^from the Wiki entry on Iran-Contra.

He wasn't convicted of or even charged with participation in Iran Contra any more than Reagan and Bush 41were convicted or even charged with participation in Iran Contra. Despite MANY millions the Democrats spent trying to hang them for something in that, the special prosecutor finally concluded that yes, crimes were committed, but they were crimes that carried no penalties. Therefore no charges were brought to bear.

Ollie was 'convicted' for accepting an illegal gift, lying, and obstructing justice, none of which he would have ever come to light had he not been under Congressional immunity. And it was obvious that his motives were not to increase his own fortunes but were due to the mission he believed that he had. And all charges/convictions were overturned and thrown out by a higher court because he did have immunity which allowed him to provide Congress with information they never would have otherwise received.

He freely admitted to lying to Congress on more than one occasion. Why did he do that? Because Congress could not be trusted with the information and there were many lives at risk if anybody talked out of school. And even the most hostile Democrats could not argue with that with any credibility.

I have not said that Ollie was not guilty nor that he never did anything wrong. As usual those of you who see everything as either 100% evil or 100% forgivable with no middle ground in between don't want to see anything positive in Ollie North.

Well I don't believe that there are any of us who are without sin, and there are few of us who have accomplished as much in our lifetimes as somebody like Ollie North. So I do see much that is positive in him. And no amount of narrow minded, partisan-washed judgmentalism is likely to change my mind about that.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You have described the reactionary mindset about centrists, moderates, and liberals when you suggest the '100% evil or 100% good' model. Ollie was wrong in a major cultural as well as personal way, period, and he should not be recognized as someone worthy of being praised or that his commentary is worthwhile. Neither he nor what he says has any merit until he apologizes. Then he should resign his position and go into a quiet retirement. I feel exactly the same way about Bill Ayres: what a despicable human being and an excuse of an American.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Hey, um, you guys just remember you are talking about LTC Ollie and not SFC Ollie.