Middle School Teacher Motivates Kids By Burning 2 American Flags

[GotZoom]

What an idiot.

-----

LOUISVILLE, Ky. — A middle school teacher in Louisville has been removed from the classroom after burning two American flags in class as part of a civics lesson.

Dan Holden, a seventh-grade social studies teacher at Stuart Middle School, burned two flags Friday as part of a lesson on freedom of speech, said Jefferson County schools spokeswoman Lauren Roberts said.

The students were asked to write an opinion paper on the flag burning, Roberts said.

Holden, a teacher in the school district since 1979, has been reassigned to non-instructional duties while the incident is under investigation.

Roberts said the flag burning did not appear to be politically motivated, based on an interview with Holden.

The district also alerted city fire officials.

"Certainly we're concerned about the safety aspect," Roberts said, along with "the judgment of using that type of demonstration in a class."

Pat Summers, whose daughter was in Holden's class, told The Courier-Journal of Louisville that more than 20 parents showed up at the school Monday, upset over the incident. Click here to read the Courier-Journal story.

"She said, 'Our teacher burned a flag.' I'm like, 'What?"' Summers said.

Brent McKim, president of the Jefferson County Teachers Association, said Holden has "been teaching for many years, and has by all accounts a good teaching record. It was not a political statement and was meant to illustrate a controversial issue. To fire someone because of that would be inappropriate," he said. "It wasn't like he was taking one side or another."

An attempt to pass a constitutional amendment prohibiting flag burning failed in the U.S. Senate earlier this year.

Beth Wilson, director of Kentucky's American Civil Liberties Union, said the school district is allowed to decide what's instructionally appropriate.

But "if a school is masking their objections to flag burning under the guise of safety, it raises questions about freedom of speech and academic freedom," she said. She said the ACLU would monitor the case but is not involved at this point.

Stuart sixth-grader Kelsey Adwell, 11, said students were abuzz about the incident on Monday.

"They just can't believe that a teacher would do that — burn two American flags in front of the class," she said. "A teacher shouldn't do that, even though it was an example."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,209750,00.html

 

[Bonnie]

Bravo to the parents and the school for taking action.

 

[Abbey Normal]

Hmmm. Would the ACLU be protecting his rights if the flag looked like this?

(flag of the Nation of Islam)

 

[Avatar4321]

im am so tired of people using the freedom of speech cop out whenever they get caught doing something they know they shouldnt.

Conduct is not protected under the First amendment. And if anyone honestly thinks starting fires in a classroom is a good way to protect children, they are insane.

 

[Mr. P]

Brent McKim, president of the Jefferson County Teachers Association, said Holden has "been teaching for many years,...

Should that read: Brent McKim, president of the Jefferson County Teachers UNION, said Holden has "been teaching for many years,...

 

[Hagbard Celine]

The act was obviously symbolic, as is anything having to do with flag, which is itself, a symbol. The teacher burned the flag to elicit an emotional response from students so that they could write a paper about how they felt about flag burning. It's not as if the teacher was trying to indoctrinate the students with anti-US sentiments. The article even says the incident was not politically motivated. I think the teacher got what he deserves if he burned something indoors--that's just stupid. But the outrage expressed by you guys and the teachers and students over a symbolic act exhibits, I think, an intolerance of other viewpoints that borders dangerously close to fascism and jingoistic flag worship as well as a perverse idea of social priorities.

 

[GotZoom]

The act was obviously symbolic, as is anything having to do with flag, which is itself, a symbol. The teacher burned the flag to elicit an emotional response from students so that they could write a paper about how they felt about flag burning. It's not as if the teacher was trying to indoctrinate the students with anti-US sentiments. The article even says the incident was not politically motivated. I think the teacher got what he deserves if he burned something indoors--that's just stupid. But the outrage expressed by you guys and the teachers and students over a symbolic act exhibits, I think, an intolerance of other viewpoints that borders dangerously close to fascism and jingoistic flag worship as well as a perverse idea of social priorities.

Replace with patriotism.

He could have done many things to "motivate" - shown pictures of someone buring the flag.

He could have even picked a foreign flag to burn.

To pick his own countries flag was irresponsible, disrespectful and foolish.

 

[Mr. P]

The act was obviously symbolic, as is anything having to do with flag, which is itself, a symbol. The teacher burned the flag to elicit an emotional response from students so that they could write a paper about how they felt about flag burning. It's not as if the teacher was trying to indoctrinate the students with anti-US sentiments. The article even says the incident was not politically motivated. I think the teacher got what he deserves if he burned something indoors--that's just stupid. But the outrage expressed by you guys and the teachers and students over a symbolic act exhibits, I think, an intolerance of other viewpoints that borders dangerously close to fascism and jingoistic flag worship as well as a perverse idea of social priorities.

How do you know that it was symbolic?
What outrage "By you guys"?

 

[Hobbit]

While I question the wisdom of actually burning a flag to demonstrate freedom of speech (it is quite an object lesson, but then again, so would having sex in front of a health class), the main problem I see here is that he...STARTED A FIRE! You can get away with that in a science lab, but a civics class?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

While I question the wisdom of actually burning a flag to demonstrate freedom of speech (it is quite an object lesson, but then again, so would having sex in front of a health class), the main problem I see here is that he...STARTED A FIRE! You can get away with that in a science lab, but a civics class?

This was not a private act by himself on his own time. This guy is a teacher who WORKS for the U.S. government.....meaning us, the people. We pay taxes to cover his paycheck. Burning our flag is insulting to us, the people who love our flag and all it stands for. Thus, the bum should get canned just like any employee who insults his employer.

 

[Bonnie]

The act was obviously symbolic, as is anything having to do with flag, which is itself, a symbol. The teacher burned the flag to elicit an emotional response from students so that they could write a paper about how they felt about flag burning. It's not as if the teacher was trying to indoctrinate the students with anti-US sentiments. The article even says the incident was not politically motivated. I think the teacher got what he deserves if he burned something indoors--that's just stupid. But the outrage expressed by you guys and the teachers and students over a symbolic act exhibits, I think, an intolerance of other viewpoints that borders dangerously close to fascism and jingoistic flag worship as well as a perverse idea of social priorities.

So I take it then you believe all teachers have the right to wear religious t-shirts as a symbolic gesture to elicit responses? I'm not seeing any over the top outrage about the incident on this board that even remotely resembles fascism or jingoism. Or do you equate those terms to any sort of disagreement in discussions??

 

[Annie]

Should that read: Brent McKim, president of the Jefferson County Teachers UNION, said Holden has "been teaching for many years,...

My feelings exactly. Watch for what the UNION does regarding this...

 

[theHawk]

So I take it then you believe all teachers have the right to wear religious t-shirts as a symbolic gesture to elicit responses? I'm not seeing any over the top outrage about the incident on this board that even remotely resembles fascism or jingoism. Or do you equate those terms to any sort of disagreement in discussions??

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Bonnie again.

 

[Annie]

The act was obviously symbolic, as is anything having to do with flag, which is itself, a symbol. The teacher burned the flag to elicit an emotional response from students so that they could write a paper about how they felt about flag burning. It's not as if the teacher was trying to indoctrinate the students with anti-US sentiments. The article even says the incident was not politically motivated. I think the teacher got what he deserves if he burned something indoors--that's just stupid. But the outrage expressed by you guys and the teachers and students over a symbolic act exhibits, I think, an intolerance of other viewpoints that borders dangerously close to fascism and jingoistic flag worship as well as a perverse idea of social priorities.

I would be against a 'flag burning amendment', not because I wouldn't want to bash someone doing so, but because I do think the right should be protect. Discussing such is one thing, actually doing so demonstrates very poor judgement, whether in middle school or university. Whether or not such a person should be teaching, should be left to the school, and the reactions of its 'customers.'

 

[Bonnie]

I would be against a 'flag burning amendment', not because I wouldn't want to bash someone doing so, but because I do think the right should be protect. Discussing such is one thing, actually doing so demonstrates very poor judgement, whether in middle school or university. Whether or not such a person should be teaching, should be left to the school, and the reactions of its 'customers.'

That word just hits the nail Kathianne, I think school administrators and some teachers don't realize they are supposed to be accountable to parents/children (CUSTOMERS). They use the teachers union as carte blanche to do what they please and parents be damned.

 

[Annie]

That word just hits the nail Kathianne, I think school administrators and some teachers don't realize they are supposed to be accountable to parents/children (CUSTOMERS). They use the teachers union as carte blanche to do what they please and parents be damned.

I agree. I also believe that the parents must get wise to just how little clout they have, compared to the Union.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

That word just hits the nail Kathianne, I think school administrators and some teachers don't realize they are supposed to be accountable to parents/children (CUSTOMERS). They use the teachers union as carte blanche to do what they please and parents be damned.

Unions are composed of socialists, not capitalists.

 

[Bonnie]

Unions are composed of socialists, not capitalists.

Bingo!

 

[Gem]

I think school administrators and some teachers don't realize they are supposed to be accountable to parents/children (CUSTOMERS). They use the teachers union as carte blanche to do what they please and parents be damned.

I understand your dislike of unions - truth be told, most teachers don't like them either...but I can not tell you how far from the truth the statement above is.

Public school systems today are COMPLETELY TERRIFIED of parents and the law suits they bring and trust me, they are almost always treated like customers - that is, if the most rude and outspoken customers were permitted to walk into a business at any time, treat the employees with at best, no respect, and at worst - outright hostility, and demand any outlandish thing they want and be granted it with little to no hesitation.

I just sat through a week of in-service. Most of it was about doing what we could to avoid lawsuits. My school is facing several potential lawsuits at the moment...most large school districts are (especially if you include law suits due to special education concerns).

One - is regarding a student who feels that his rights were violated by a teacher who continually placed his hand on his shoulder (thats right - his shoulder) during class. The student and his parents feel that the teacher (who was using an ANCIENT teaching technique of proximity and a hand on the shoulder as a non-verbal, non-class-distracting way of asking the student to be quiet) was deliberately humiliating him. Its in mediation at the moment - the school district is hopeful it won't go further.

We have been advised strongly by our superindendent to refrain from touching our students at all from now on. Elementary students are to give high fives instead of hugs. Middle and high school teachers have been instructed to keep their distance.

This is NOT unions and administrators mistreating parents (their "customers") this is a few parents who feel that because their tax dollars support the public schools they are the "educational experts" who can dictate how schools should be run to teachers and adminstrators...and who are willing to sue if their wishes are not granted.

Now...please don't get me wrong...I am, truthfully, not a fan of the public education system in this country...I think that it is broken and will need a major overhaul in order to work again.

But...

The problem is NOT administration or unions ignoring or bulldozing parents.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I understand your dislike of unions - truth be told, most teachers don't like them either...but I can not tell you how far from the truth the statement above is.

Public school systems today are COMPLETELY TERRIFIED of parents and the law suits they bring and trust me, they are almost always treated like customers - that is, if the most rude and outspoken customers were permitted to walk into a business at any time, treat the employees with at best, no respect, and at worst - outright hostility, and demand any outlandish thing they want and be granted it with little to no hesitation.

I just sat through a week of in-service. Most of it was about doing what we could to avoid lawsuits. My school is facing several potential lawsuits at the moment...most large school districts are (especially if you include law suits due to special education concerns).

One - is regarding a student who feels that his rights were violated by a teacher who continually placed his hand on his shoulder (thats right - his shoulder) during class. The student and his parents feel that the teacher (who was using an ANCIENT teaching technique of proximity and a hand on the shoulder as a non-verbal, non-class-distracting way of asking the student to be quiet) was deliberately humiliating him. Its in mediation at the moment - the school district is hopeful it won't go further.

We have been advised strongly by our superindendent to refrain from touching our students at all from now on. Elementary students are to give high fives instead of hugs. Middle and high school teachers have been instructed to keep their distance.

This is NOT unions and administrators mistreating parents (their "customers") this is a few parents who feel that because their tax dollars support the public schools they are the "educational experts" who can dictate how schools should be run to teachers and adminstrators...and who are willing to sue if their wishes are not granted.

Now...please don't get me wrong...I am, truthfully, not a fan of the public education system in this country...I think that it is broken and will need a major overhaul in order to work again.

But...

The problem is NOT administration or unions ignoring or bulldozing parents.

If the schools/teachers are terrified of parents suing them, perhaps they need to reexamine the the liberal school environment that is causing such idiotic lawsuits. There never before was a problem with any teacher putting a restraining hand on a kid's shoulder. What has changed? Does the liberal school system really think it is not at all their fault? Maybe the school union needs to stop supporting liberal politics which promulgates ideas about "student rights" that probably cause such demented lawsuits.