Mexican Millitary Comes onto US Soil

[Tech_Esq]

Arm the border patrol to catch drug runners? How about we make drugs legal instead? Once you stop the runners from crossing the Mexican border they'll just find somewhere else to cross.

Damn it Ravi...stop it! You're going to make me start doubting myself if we keep agreeing. I would legalize drugs too. But, until we do, we can't allow our borders to be treated as a revolving door for illegal activity.

 

[Ravi]

Damn it Ravi...stop it! You're going to make me start doubting myself if we keep agreeing. I would legalize drugs too. But, until we do, we can't allow our borders to be treated as a revolving door for illegal activity.

The country would be a much better place if everyone realized how much they actually agree with me.

I'd like to see the borders not be a revolving door as well. But how do you plan to accomplish that? For awhile, all the drug runners came through Florida in boats, now they come through Mexico, next it will be somewhere else. All this begins in Columbia, doesn't it for the most part?

 

[Tech_Esq]

Too expensive.

Poppy cock. We've been doing it for 60 years on the DMZ in Korea, we've learned a lot there over that time. The price of the fence is trivial in the vast scheme of things. Even manning the border is not as expensive to the American public as not manning it.

 

[Ravi]

Poppy cock. We've been doing it for 60 years on the DMZ in Korea, we've learned a lot there over that time. The price of the fence is trivial in the vast scheme of things. Even manning the border is not as expensive to the American public as not manning it.

How long is the DMZ? How long is our border? What about the East Coast, are you going to fence that off as well? The skies?

 

[Tech_Esq]

The country would be a much better place if everyone realized how much they actually agree with me.

I'd like to see the borders not be a revolving door as well. But how do you plan to accomplish that? For awhile, all the drug runners came through Florida in boats, now they come through Mexico, next it will be somewhere else. All this begins in Columbia, doesn't it for the most part?

I'm not going to argue against myself. As I said in another thread, prohibition doesn't work, it only creates dangerous blackmarkets in the items prohibited whether that is alcohol, drugs, guns or tobacco. You can see the latter happening in New York even now just brought on by the extremely high taxes. People have been running guns and tobacco from VA to NY for years now.

So, I agree with your overall point that where there is a profit motive, you are not going to be successful in preventing it. That said, if the Mexican Air Force tries to fly over the border to run drugs, I'm thinking they would have a problem on their hands. I don't think we should build the fence to just stop drug runners, but also to force millions who want to come here to do it the right way. Certainly, it will not be 100% effective, nothing ever is (even the iron curtain wasn't and they dogs, mines, attack helicopters and armed soldiers with shoot to kill instructions to keep their people in. People still got out. But, it will stem the tide if they have to take a boat or a plane.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I'm not going to argue against myself. As I said in another thread, prohibition doesn't work, it only creates dangerous blackmarkets in the items prohibited whether that is alcohol, drugs, guns or tobacco. You can see the latter happening in New York even now just brought on by the extremely high taxes. People have been running guns and tobacco from VA to NY for years now.

So, I agree with your overall point that where there is a profit motive, you are not going to be successful in preventing it. That said, if the Mexican Air Force tries to fly over the border to run drugs, I'm thinking they would have a problem on their hands. I don't think we should build the fence to just stop drug runners, but also to force millions who want to come here to do it the right way. Certainly, it will not be 100% effective, nothing ever is (even the iron curtain wasn't and they dogs, mines, attack helicopters and armed soldiers with shoot to kill instructions to keep their people in. People still got out. But, it will stem the tide if they have to take a boat or a plane.

Ya those pesky laws, why just get rid of them all and we wont have any smugglers at all.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Ya those pesky laws, why just get rid of them all and we wont have any smugglers at all.

If you are talking about laws prohibiting distribution of "illegal" drugs, I would say it would probably reduce the number of smugglers significantly. It depends on the level of taxation that would inevitably be placed on them.

I fear we are straying off topic though, so this should probably be a new thread if we want to pick this up.

 

[Ravi]

But, it will stem the tide if they have to take a boat or a plane.

Maybe, but I doubt it. The problem just gets pushed elsewhere and their are enough enterprising people smugglers out there.

 

[jillian]

Ya those pesky laws, why just get rid of them all and we wont have any smugglers at all.

Some laws are stupid... like prohibition.

Same goes for drugs...

control them; distribute them through legal means; tax their sale. no more gangs fighting for territory... no more running guns to defend that territory... no more smuggling over the borders...

d'uh....

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Some laws are stupid... like prohibition.

Same goes for drugs...

control them; distribute them through legal means; tax their sale. no more gangs fighting for territory... no more running guns to defend that territory... no more smuggling over the borders...

d'uh....

Yah cause moonshining doesn't happen anymore, smuggling cigs doesn't happen any more, ya the illegal drug trade will just dry up and go away like magic. And of course all the social woes from drug use will vanish as soon as we sell it at the local grocery as well, right?

 

[editec]

Yah cause moonshining doesn't happen anymore, smuggling cigs doesn't happen any more, ya the illegal drug trade will just dry up and go away like magic. And of course all the social woes from drug use will vanish as soon as we sell it at the local grocery as well, right?

I know damned well one of my social ills would vanish if they'd decriminalize hemp.

Beyond that, I think most drugs, from over the counter things like ASA or some cold medicines to heroin and ice need some controls on them, and each drug needs to be evaluated based on real science rather than paranoic nonsense which is how we deal with them now.

The criminalization model we are using to solve the problems that drugs cause this society continues to fail miserably, however.

I prefer a medical model, personally.

If someone is having problems with drugs and wants help, we should make it available to them.

However, if they get into trouble (I mean real crimes, not drug crimes) because so many people are freakin' idiots when they take drugs, then we should:

1. treat them for the drug problem they have; and
2. Punish them for whatever law they broke while on those, and in NO way mitigate the charges just because they were high.

But, what I think does not work is to assume that just because someone does drugs they WILL do crimes.

That whole putting the cart before the horse dislogic we use to justify prhibitions is simply stupid as hell.

It didn't work for alcohol related social ills, in fact, it made things worse, and the same thing is happening because of criminal prohibitions on other drugs, too.

 

[Shogun]

The Mexican military are American citizens???

must... stifle... laugh...




for the record.. if ANY american authourity figure has been held at gunpoint by the mexican military it's time to establish a military presence at the border. Thats just unacceptable.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

must... stifle... laugh...




for the record.. if ANY american authourity figure has been held at gunpoint by the mexican military it's time to establish a military presence at the border. Thats just unacceptable.

Not as bad as putting 2 Border Guard agents in prison for doing their job.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Not as bad as putting 2 Border Guard agents in prison for doing their job.

I was gonna say....this is hardly the first time or the worst time.

 

[Gunny]

Please note for the record that Jillian is against the continuance of the Posse-Comatatis act.

Thanks for the confirmation of your hidden Stalinist agenda that one day will turn the US military against it's people. (Just teasin'.....maybe)

Using the US military to guard our National border from incursions by foreign militaries is NOT turning it against "its" people. It is using it to defend the US; which, is its primary mission.

Face them inboard, THEN you are in violation of Posse-Comatatis.

 

[Gunny]

Oh, I know what it means (btw, you spelled it wrong), but I believe Jillian was thinking of the Mexican army as an invading force, and not as something to be solved by police action.

Even so, I disagree with Jillian. IMO, it isn't the duty of our military to enforce border control along the Mexican border.

It IS the primary mission of the US military to defend against armed invasion by foreign nations. A Mexican Army unit, crossing into US territory is an invading force, by definition.

 

[Gunny]

We should be protecting our borders from incursions of either civilian or military.

Why don't we?

perhaps we should ask both the Republican leadership AND the Democratic leadership.

They seem to think it's a bad idea.

Lord only knows why.

Fear, is why. Each side fears alienating the Hispanic American vote.

 

[editec]

Too expensive, Ravi?

How expensive is it?

 

[Tech_Esq]

Using the US military to guard our National border from incursions by foreign militaries is NOT turning it against "its" people. It is using it to defend the US; which, is its primary mission.

Face them inboard, THEN you are in violation of Posse-Comatatis.

It depends on the mission doesn't it? Assuming the mission is not get in a fighting position on the border and wait for the guys in uniforms to come at you, then kill them. Life is never that simple anymore.

You know and I know that the mission will be more like we control a sector of the border x miles wide and 5 miles deep. Kill the bad guy (foreign military), police the people who shouldn't be there (illegals....others?), what about American civilians in the 5 mile sector? Who takes care of them? The Marines? Some other force so the Marines with not be in conflict with PC?

That was my point.

It's not as cut and dried as it may sound at first blush. The only exception is if Border Patrol would only use the Marines as a QRF in case they ran into the Mexican military. Although why you would use Marines when Ft. Hood is right there, I'm not sure.

 

[steeliniraq]

It doesn't matter if the unit knew they had crossed the boarder. If an American Army unit went across the border it would make the papers and news all around the world and the US would be criticized relentlessly.