Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays?

[Mr. P]

sitting in a bar on a sunny beach watching nascar looking at half naked chicks drinking mai tais and ******* wif you....it just doesn't get any better.....and merry christmas

half naked chicks and yer on line? You need to review yer priorities bucko…It ain't Christmas yet either, Happy Holidays. :rotflmao:

 

[manu1959]

half naked chicks and yer on line? You need to review yer priorities bucko…It ain't Christmas yet either, Happy Holidays. :rotflmao:

my highest priority is not getting busted by my wife

 

[Mr. P]

my highest priority is not getting busted by my wife

That's tops!

 

[Gem]

Manu Wrote:

why do you feel the need to pick on me for having a bit of tounge in cheek fun?

Guilty conscience or something, Manu?

If I had been picking on you I would have stated that I thought it sounded pretty jerky to deliberately give people who were trying to wish you well a hard time simply because you didn't believe or follow the reason behind why they were wishing you well. There are enough assholes in the world to pick on...why would you bust on the nice people trying to make you happy instead of the true jerks out there?

But I didn't say any of that...I instead stated (as did another poster...but you chose to talk to me instead of them) that I wasn't sure I understood why you choose to do what you stated you liked to do to people who wished you Happy Holidays.

I was hoping you could explain it to me, Manu. I honestly stated that I didn't understand why you do that, rather than assume things about you that might not be true. I'm sorry that you assumed I was picking on you...I really wasn't.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Getting in a little late on this discussion but hey, it's still November.

imo the words "Happy Holidays" is GENERIC, a cheap substitute and one step away from the real thing when using it as a greeting before Christmas.

It probably originally got started because many people (especially the kids) usually got the days off between Christmas and New Years. So the day after Christmas you can't quite say Merry Christmas anymore and it's not quite yet New Years, so whatdya say? Happy Holidays is a great in-between, filler kind of greeting.

Another thing that bugs me is that many people think that 15% of Americans are "other" religions. Actually only about 4 percent are members of other true religions - Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. Those 4% are so far and few between that saying Merry Christmas to them (unless you know them personally) is no big deal and they have dealt with that issue successfully since our country started. That leaves 11% who really have NO religion.

Since the ones who have NO religion are not actually celebrating anything, why worry about saying "Happy Holidays" in order to "include" them? They obviously aren't "happy" about anything since they aren't celebrating anything. My guess is that many of them are former Christians who have dropped their religion for one reason or another - many probably have fallen prey to the liberal propaganda pushed by the communist left whose goal is to stamp out religion in America. imo these poor souls are the ones who really need a good dose of Christmas more than anybody else.

We are still a hugely Christian nation and if we allow Merry Christmas to fall by the wayside in order to please a bunch of godless heathens, then we deserve what we get. We need to push back at them and assert ourselves and not be bullied into a bunch of pc crap about generic "happy holidays". Say out loud and be proud (like the gays) -- a Merry Christmas to all!

I am going to take a trip this season to Target and see if they have omitted the "Merry Christmas" sign as someone pointed out. If so, I'll be telling their management what I think of that. and that they won't be getting my business this year, all year. Going to steer clear of pc-oriented WalMart too as I'm not celebrating happy holidays, I'm celebrating Christmas. In fact I'm only going to buy in stores that celebrate Christmas.

 

[Gunny]

Getting in a little late on this discussion but hey, it's still November.

imo the words "Happy Holidays" is GENERIC, a cheap substitute and one step away from the real thing when using it as a greeting before Christmas.

It probably originally got started because many people (especially the kids) usually got the days off between Christmas and New Years. So the day after Christmas you can't quite say Merry Christmas anymore and it's not quite yet New Years, so whatdya say? Happy Holidays is a great in-between, filler kind of greeting.

Another thing that bugs me is that many people think that 15% of Americans are "other" religions. Actually only about 4 percent are members of other true religions - Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. Those 4% are so far and few between that saying Merry Christmas to them (unless you know them personally) is no big deal and they have dealt with that issue successfully since our country started. That leaves 11% who really have NO religion.

Since the ones who have NO religion are not actually celebrating anything, why worry about saying "Happy Holidays" in order to "include" them? They obviously aren't "happy" about anything since they aren't celebrating anything. My guess is that many of them are former Christians who have dropped their religion for one reason or another - many probably have fallen prey to the liberal propaganda pushed by the communist left whose goal is to stamp out religion in America. imo these poor souls are the ones who really need a good dose of Christmas more than anybody else.

We are still a hugely Christian nation and if we allow Merry Christmas to fall by the wayside in order to please a bunch of godless heathens, then we deserve what we get. We need to push back at them and assert ourselves and not be bullied into a bunch of pc crap about generic "happy holidays". Say out loud and be proud (like the gays) -- a Merry Christmas to all!

I am going to take a trip this season to Target and see if they have omitted the "Merry Christmas" sign as someone pointed out. If so, I'll be telling their management what I think of that. and that they won't be getting my business this year, all year. Going to steer clear of pc-oriented WalMart too as I'm not celebrating happy holidays, I'm celebrating Christmas. In fact I'm only going to buy in stores that celebrate Christmas.

Target, Wal-Mat and Macy's are three retailers that according to the news have indeed dropped "Merry Christmas." I intend to make a point of shopping only in those places with a prominently displayed "Merry Christmas."

I forget the retailer that dropped "Merry Christmas" last year, but after the drop off in business, it was reported they are reinstating its use. Purchase power is a mighty thing.

 

[Hobbit]

This is reminding me of the South Park episode where they took all the stuff out of school that offended anybody, and they were left with a Christmas play that was a crappy piece of new age interpretive dance bullcrap. They even took down the lights because it was offensive to epileptics.

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

Getting in late here too, but I'll put in my two cents.

I voted for Merry Christmas, but that is mainly because of where I live. The 85%/15% that has been brought up several times in the thread is more like 95%/5% around here. A good chunk of the 5% consists of "call it what you want, just give me a day off work" people.

I think that is the way it should be everywhere. If the area is made up predominately of people who celebrate Christmas, then retailers and such should decorate, advertise, and promote toward Christmas. Same for the community in general. If there is a wider mix of people, then Happy Holidays should be exceptable, as long as it isn't to the point of completely blocking out Christmas in favor of pushing other holidays.

When I lived in Wichita Falls, Texas a few years ago, I knew someone in passing that was Jewish. I had no problem saying Happy Hanukkah to them, they had no problem saying Merry Christmas to me. It wasn't turned into a major issue. It's a real shame that more people can't deal with it on an individual basis, especially considering the fact that the time of year is meant for giving, worship, and goodwill, no matter how you celebrate it.

All this said, the one thing I really don't like is how some people are trying to use the Constitution to wipe out all religious signs from the season. Of course, this is mostly trying to take Christ out of Christmas, as I have not yet heard anyone complain about the religious content of any other holiday. Push for equal time if you want, but stop twisting the Constitution to get your way.

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

I don't know how often people check out the "Global Topics" section, but schools in Australia just made a decision about Christmas.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/school-santa-ban-sacked/2005/11/21/1132421578758.html

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Another thing that bugs me is that many people think that 15% of Americans are "other" religions. Actually only about 4 percent are members of other true religions - Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. Those 4% are so far and few between that saying Merry Christmas to them (unless you know them personally) is no big deal and they have dealt with that issue successfully since our country started. That leaves 11% who really have NO religion.

You're saying atheists/agnostics outnumber non-Christians in this country almost 3 to 1? I'd like to see where you got that stat from...

EDIT: I had no idea that this number was even close to being correct, but it appears to be true:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm

 

[007]

Okay Pale..How is "Happy Holidays" catering to the minority?

I'm old enough to remember how it used to be Mr. P. Merry Christmas used to be plastered EVERYWHERE during CHRISTMAS. This PC happy holidays has come about from pressure from minority groups and attacks from the likes of the aclu. Your happy holiday supporter of groups like NAMBLA. They have made retailers CAVE. It's comparable to terrorism in a sense. They have SCARED certain retailers into DROPPING Merry Christmas, even though that is what the holiday is. They want "Christmas" gone! After all, Christmas is about the "birth of Jesus Christ", and that is the son of the holy spirit, which is Christianity, and Christianity stands in the way of godless, immoral agenda.

I don't see how anyone over forty years old can honestly say they don't remember back when "Merry Christmas" was the greeting. We put up a "Christmas" tree, we hang "Christmas" lights on our houses, we went "Christmas" shopping, we visited relatives for "Christmas", kids got off school for "Christmas" break, Schools would put on a "Christmas" play, we would have a "Christmas" dinner, we would watch How The Grinch Stole "Christmas" on T.V., we'd listen to I'm Dreaming of a White "Christmas" on the radio, need I go on? And now you and some others all of a sudden don't give a damn if all this just goes away? Do you give up so easily about everything? Frankly, it makes me mad. I LIKE Christmas. I like what Christmas is about, and these retailers giving in to this rotten, loud, pushy little minority stripping "Merry Christmas" out of "Christmas" pisses me off. And people with the attitude, "oh, who cares what they say", well that's just EXACTLY the response these assholes attacking Christmas are looking for. That makes their job of getting rid of "Christmas", which is a religous holiday, all the easier. You're HELPING them win.

I don't get it, really I don't. From a business standpoint if you ignored 15% of my customer base you'd be the one fired..15% is a BIG number if you use the Wal-mart 138 million a week figure.

We Mr. P, if I'm catering to the 15%, then I'm ignoring the 85%. Are you hoping that by bending to the will of the 15%, that they are going to out spend the 85% you're ignoring? The reasoning is this, if you're going to try and make ONLY the 15% happy, you're pissing off the 85%, and that's me. I like a couple others that have posted comments WILL NOT SHOP in a store that OMITS "Merry Christmas". They have DRIVEN ME AWAY trying to make the MINORITY happy. How is that good business?

 

[MissileMan]

We Mr. P, if I'm catering to the 15%, then I'm ignoring the 85%. Are you hoping that by bending to the will of the 15%, that they are going to out spend the 85% you're ignoring? The reasoning is this, if you're going to try and make ONLY the 15% happy, you're pissing off the 85%, and that's me. I like a couple others that have posted comments WILL NOT SHOP in a store that OMITS "Merry Christmas". They have DRIVEN ME AWAY trying to make the MINORITY happy. How is that good business?

That's true only if you take the narrow stance that Christmas isn't included in Happy Holidays. The stores aren't saying "Happy Holidays except Christmas" although that seems to be what some of you are trying to allege. It takes some pretty thin skin to be offended by a generic holiday greeting that encompasses 3-4 holidays.

 

[007]

That's true only if you take the narrow stance that Christmas isn't included in Happy Holidays. The stores aren't saying "Happy Holidays except Christmas" although that seems to be what some of you are trying to allege. It takes some pretty thin skin to be offended by a generic holiday greeting that encompasses 3-4 holidays.

I'm old enough to remember how it used to be Mr. P. Merry Christmas used to be plastered EVERYWHERE during CHRISTMAS. This PC happy holidays has come about from pressure from minority groups and attacks from the likes of the aclu. Your happy holiday supporter of groups like NAMBLA. They have made retailers CAVE. It's comparable to terrorism in a sense. They have SCARED certain retailers into DROPPING Merry Christmas, even though that is what the holiday is. They want "Christmas" gone! After all, Christmas is about the "birth of Jesus Christ", and that is the son of the holy spirit, which is Christianity, and Christianity stands in the way of godless, immoral agenda.

I don't see how anyone over forty years old can honestly say they don't remember back when "Merry Christmas" was the greeting. We put up a "Christmas" tree, we hang "Christmas" lights on our houses, we went "Christmas" shopping, we visited relatives for "Christmas", kids got off school for "Christmas" break, Schools would put on a "Christmas" play, we would have a "Christmas" dinner, we would watch How The Grinch Stole "Christmas" on T.V., we'd listen to I'm Dreaming of a White "Christmas" on the radio, need I go on? And now you and some others all of a sudden don't give a damn if all this just goes away? Do you give up so easily about everything? Frankly, it makes me mad. I LIKE Christmas. I like what Christmas is about, and these retailers giving in to this rotten, loud, pushy little minority stripping "Merry Christmas" out of "Christmas" pisses me off. And people with the attitude, "oh, who cares what they say", well that's just EXACTLY the response these assholes attacking Christmas are looking for. That makes their job of getting rid of "Christmas", which is a religous holiday, all the easier. You're HELPING them win.

Did you even read any of that?

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Here Pale, this should cheer you up. I just got this email today:

We have checked the calendar and decided to hold our Christmas luncheon, here, on Thursday, Dec. 15th, 12:00 noon - downstairs in the open area. This looks good for everyone, on the calendar. Please try very hard to schedule all meetings, etc, around that date, so that we can all get together. Don't know yet what we will have for lunch - it will be a surprise.

There has been talk of the gift exchange again. You will hear from someone else about that. It will be at the same time as the luncheon.

*name deleted* will be putting out the "Toys for Tots" box, in the front office, downstairs, some day next week. He will let you know the particulars on that, for example, whether there are any special items that the Marines wish to collect and deadline for donations, etc.

Lastly, Christmas is coming guys. Have you got your shopping done? Please remember to mark your calendar.

 

[Bonnie]

Depends on what company Im in. If someone says Merry Christmas to me I say it back. If someone is Jewish I say Happy Hannukah, etc. Should stores purposefully not say Merry Christmas at all just to allegedly keep from insulting a small minority?, probably not the best way to do business and rather insulting since it is the Christmas season that makes up a good portion of their yearly sales.

Last year when Macy's absconded with saying Merry Christmas their sales dropped by something like 30% and I notice this year they are happily embracing "Merry Christmas" once again.

 

[MissileMan]

Did you even read any of that?

I did indeed.

I don't think that it's a conspiracy to slight Christians. I think it's an effort by retailers to reach out to as many shoppers as possible with the least amount of advertising/decorating money spent. If I can put up one sign, "Happy Holidays", that means "Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Happy Kwanza, Happy New Year", all in one shot, it makes sense. I don't have to take down the "Merry Christmas" signs on Dec 26 and put up the "Happy New Year" signs. It doesn't give any one holiday a higher status than any of the others, which is where I think most of the complaining is coming from.

 

[Bonnie]

That's true only if you take the narrow stance that Christmas isn't included in Happy Holidays. The stores aren't saying "Happy Holidays except Christmas" although that seems to be what some of you are trying to allege. It takes some pretty thin skin to be offended by a generic holiday greeting that encompasses 3-4 holidays.

I think if it were just what you say it is, most people would be okay with the notion that stores are just so ridiculously sissy assed and PC as to specifically exclude Christmas from their holiday greetings, the problem is that it isn't JUST stores... it is stores and many other areas of the public that are systematically reducing Christianity to it's lowest common denominator giving the appearance of wanting it to be kept hidden behind closed doors...And so when stores do it, it becomes just one more slap in the face to Christians.

 

[Mr. P]

...

And now you and some others all of a sudden don't give a damn if all this just goes away? Do you give up so easily about everything? Frankly, it makes me mad. I LIKE Christmas. I like what Christmas is about, and these retailers giving in to this rotten, loud, pushy little minority stripping "Merry Christmas" out of "Christmas" pisses me off. And people with the attitude, "oh, who cares what they say", well that's just EXACTLY the response these assholes attacking Christmas are looking for. That makes their job of getting rid of "Christmas", which is a religous holiday, all the easier. You're HELPING them win.

...

I guess the difference here is I don’t allow the retailers to dictate what Christmas is to me. Perhaps you should reflect on why what they do is really that important to you Pale.
If what a retailer is doing affects your belief and view of Christmas, perhaps it’s misguided to start with. Might I suggest removing yourself from the Commercialisation of Christmas and returning to the root. Just a thought.

 

[007]

I did indeed.

I don't think that it's a conspiracy to slight Christians.

Then that's part of where our thoughts differ MM....

How the Left Stole Christmas

Merry Birth of Guru Gobind Singh Day!


By Tom Piatak

“I am sure I have always thought of Christmas time, when it has come round—apart from the veneration due to its sacred name and origin, if anything can be apart from that—as a good time: a kind, forgiving, charitable, pleasant time: the only time I know of, in the long calendar of the year, when men and women seem by one consent to open their shut up hearts freely, and to think of people below them as if they really were fellow passengers to the grave, and not another race of creatures bound on other journeys.”

These words of Scrooge’s nephew describe Christmas in the America of my youth. Christmas was a special and wonderful time of year, marked by kindness and good cheer, with its myriad celebrations all viewed as ultimately stemming from the birth of the One who, in Dickens’ words, “made lame beggars walk and blind men see.”

Today’s consensus is different. In last year’s made-for-cable movie “Christmas Rush,” one character wishes another “Merry Christmas,” only to be told, “Gee, that is politically incorrect.” And so it is. In one generation—I was born in 1964—Christmas has gone from being a widespread and joyous public celebration to the holiday that dare not speak its name. We now have “holiday trees,” “holiday cards,” “holiday parties,” “holiday songs,” and even, in one particularly egregious advertisement, a “child’s first holiday.” Simply put, there is now raging a “War Against Christmas,” in author Peter Brimelow’s trenchant phrase.

A hallmark of this war is an aggressive multiculturalism that has elevated a variety of formerly obscure or even non-existent festivals into faux-Christmases, principally Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, and now Ramadan, but also Diwali, Bodhi Day, the Birth of Guru Gobind Singh, Dongji, and Chinese New Year. The reason for the elevation of these holidays is their proximity to Christmas, not their cultural significance or intrinsic worth. Indeed, Kwanzaa was invented in 1966, Hanukkah is traditionally a minor holiday (with no basis in the canonical Hebrew Bible), and Ramadan was virtually unknown in America until a few short years ago. Despite their recent provenance—at least as pseudo-Christmases—these holidays are now treated as coequals of Christmas, with public figures sure to pepper any of the increasingly rare mentions of Christmas with references to at least some of these others.

The desire to efface Christmas that lies behind the elevation of Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, and all the rest is illustrated by recent developments in the New York City public schools. The Thomas More Law Center is now suing the school system, which bans Nativity scenes but regularly display menorahs and Muslim crescents. Nor are the schools trying to rectify this now that their hostility to Christianity has been put in the spotlight. Instead, they are vigorously defending the ban, claiming that the “suggestion that a crèche is a historically accurate representation of an event with secular significance is wholly disingenuous.” The birth of the most important figure in history carries no weight in New York City, nor does the fact that the birth was first depicted in a crèche by another seminal historical figure, an itinerant friar from Assisi named Francis. It does not take a belief in the divinity of Christ or the sanctity of Francis to recognize their tremendous impact on the history and culture of the West. Apparently, though, the multiculturalists are eager to promote every culture but our own.

That the war against Christmas is part of a broader war against Western culture is shown by last year’s winner of VDARE.com’s invaluable War Against Christmas competition. The Columbus, Ohio, schools banned a performance of Handel’s Messiah, which for the previous nine years had been the highlight of the year at a specialized school for the arts. The performance would have violated the district’s religious-music policy, which came into being as the result of an ACLU lawsuit. According to the Columbus Dispatch, the policy stipulated that the proportion of religious music performed in concert be no more than 30 percent and that the performance of religious music be “based on sound curricular reasons” and not “manifest a preference for religion or particular religious beliefs.” The educational bureaucrats who devised the policy, trying to be helpful, suggested the students perform “Frosty the Snowman” or “Jingle Bells” instead of Handel. Their ignorance and philistinism is appalling, though characteristic of those waging the War Against Christmas. After hearing Messiah performed in London, Haydn was moved to exclaim, “Handel is the master of us all!” and to write his own great oratorio, The Creation. But, in today’s climate of “sensitivity” and “tolerance,” beauty and artistic merit are scarcely a sufficient warrant for exposing delicate ears to the name of Christ....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

....The result of sanitizing Christmas is now within sight: an undistinguished, uninspiring public celebration, devoid of religious or cultural significance or indeed of beauty, with nothing left but multiculturalist pap and tawdry commercialism. I do not believe that grim fate is inevitable. But that future will indeed be ours if we remain so unnerved by the thought of giving offense to those looking for a reason to be offended that we are afraid to celebrate our own culture, tradition, and religion.

http://www.amconmag.com/12_15_03/article2.html

 

[007]

I guess the difference here is I don’t allow the retailers to dictate what Christmas is to me. Perhaps you should reflect on why what they do is really that important to you Pale.
If what a retailer is doing affects your belief and view of Christmas, perhaps it’s misguided to start with. Might I suggest removing yourself from the Commercialisation of Christmas and returning to the root. Just a thought.

So now because I prefer to hear "Merry Christmas" over "happy holidays" I'm misguided? C'mon Mr. P, do you really have to resort to that?

What I've been purporting here is that Christmas is being stripped from Christmas, and I don't like it. You've been saying you couldn't care less, and I'm misguided?

I guess we're done.