Medical bills cause 60% of U.S. bankruptcies

[KittenKoder]

It's not irrational not to want government to make my healthcare decisions.

Move to Canada, chump.

Instead you want a huge for profit corporation? Because they are running things so wonderfully, eh?

And don't have too. Obama is going to implement socialized (to an extent) medicine. Don't like it? Move to zimbabwe, *****. They have a great system where only the rich get anything at all, should be right up your ally.

So the Gov moves into a sector in which things are going smoothly, mandates, regulates, and subsumes it and causes great harm to that secto, removing competition, and then moves to take it over to make certain that it operates fairly and efficiently into the future.
.

Basically ... yeah, that's what they think will happen at least. Most likely the government will just take more bribes, cut what services are available so that more money can be funneled into specific medical companies, eliminating all competition.

 

[editec]

This year, an estimated 1.5 million Americans will declare bankruptcy. Many people may chalk up that misfortune to overspending or a lavish lifestyle, but a new study suggests that more than 60 percent of people who go bankrupt are actually capsized by medical bills.

Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.

"Unless you're a Warren Buffett or Bill Gates, you're one illness away from financial ruin in this country," says lead author Steffie Woolhandler, M.D., of the Harvard Medical School, in Cambridge, Mass. "If an illness is long enough and expensive enough, private insurance offers very little protection against medical bankruptcy, and that's the major finding in our study."

Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies - CNN.com

1.5 million is .5% of the population of the united states and 60% of .5% is .3% of the population of the united states.

OH MY ******* GAWWWWD!!!!

THIS IS A CRISIS OF BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS.

Of course that number is the ANNUAL number of bankrupsies, too, isn't it?

That number isn't the statsitical rate over all our lifetimes, but the statistical rate in ONE YEAR.

And you are also comparing the population to the number of bankrupsies, too aren't you?

Only bankruptsies are trypically a FAMILY affair, too, aren't they?

So for example in the case I just cited, it's not one accident/ two bankruptsies for two persons, it's two bankruptries for TWO FAMILIES.

Rather changes those statistics of yours somewhat, doesn't it?

You'll be sanguine about this HC problem until it comes to your door, I suspect, SP.

But when you find that everything you've worked for is taken from you and your familiy by one unfortunely event; when you discover that all your frugality and hard work amounted to nothing whatever, then perhaps you'll start to understand that this problem is everybody's problem.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

Friend on mine lost his leg last month in a motorcycle accident.


Eight surgeries later his current bill (he's still in the hospital, so it's still climbing) is hovering at about $700,000,

Neither his nor the other person who hit him has enough insurance to cover that expense.

So that's one accident, two private insurance companies covering it, and it STILL leads to two personal bankruptsies.

Okay now which of you market advocates who love the system we have right now could afford a $700,000 hit and not go broke?

Damned right health issues are causing most bankruptsies in this nation.

There were about 100,000 personal bankruptices in 2008. Even if it's credible that 60% of those were over medical bills, why **** up health care for 300 million people over 60,000 medical bankruptcies, or 0.2%?

 

[editec]

Friend on mine lost his leg last month in a motorcycle accident.


Eight surgeries later his current bill (he's still in the hospital, so it's still climbing) is hovering at about $700,000,

Neither his nor the other person who hit him has enough insurance to cover that expense.

So that's one accident, two private insurance companies covering it, and it STILL leads to two personal bankruptsies.

Okay now which of you market advocates who love the system we have right now could afford a $700,000 hit and not go broke?

Damned right health issues are causing most bankruptsies in this nation.

There were about 100,000 personal bankruptices in 2008. Even if it's credible that 60% of those were over medical bills, why **** up health care for 300 million people over 60,000 medical bankruptcies, or 0.2%?

Because that's only one of the problems facing millions of Americans thanks to this HC system we have.

And you ALSO are somewhat confused about those stats.

If there are 60,000 bankrupsies, those will effect 60,000 families PLUS the creditors of those 60,000 families.

As to "******* up" the HC for the rest of us?

Your theory presumes that the rest of us are happy with our health care coverage right now.

That theory is fairly obviously wrong, too.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

Who wants government making their healthcare decisions?

 

[Skull Pilot]

This year, an estimated 1.5 million Americans will declare bankruptcy. Many people may chalk up that misfortune to overspending or a lavish lifestyle, but a new study suggests that more than 60 percent of people who go bankrupt are actually capsized by medical bills.

Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.

"Unless you're a Warren Buffett or Bill Gates, you're one illness away from financial ruin in this country," says lead author Steffie Woolhandler, M.D., of the Harvard Medical School, in Cambridge, Mass. "If an illness is long enough and expensive enough, private insurance offers very little protection against medical bankruptcy, and that's the major finding in our study."

Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies - CNN.com

1.5 million is .5% of the population of the united states and 60% of .5% is .3% of the population of the united states.

OH MY ******* GAWWWWD!!!!

THIS IS A CRISIS OF BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS.

Of course that number is the ANNUAL number of bankrupsies, too, isn't it?

That number isn't the statsitical rate over all our lifetimes, but the statistical rate in ONE YEAR.

And you are also comparing the population to the number of bankrupsies, too aren't you?

Only bankruptsies are trypically a FAMILY affair, too, aren't they?

So for example in the case I just cited, it's not one accident/ two bankruptsies for two persons, it's two bankruptries for TWO FAMILIES.

Rather changes those statistics of yours somewhat, doesn't it?

You'll be sanguine about this HC problem until it comes to your door, I suspect, SP.

But when you find that everything you've worked for is taken from you and your familiy by one unfortunely event; when you discover that all your frugality and hard work amounted to nothing whatever, then perhaps you'll start to understand that this problem is everybody's problem.

break out the violins

 

[Chris]

Who wants government making their healthcare decisions?

In a single payer system you still chose your doctor and your doctor still choses your treatment. I know you don't realize that every other Westem democracy has a single payer system and they pay HALF what we pay for healthcare. Why? Because they don't have to pay insurance companies, liablilty lawyers, and Big Pharma.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Who wants government making their healthcare decisions?

In a single payer system you still chose your doctor and your doctor still choses your treatment. I know you don't realize that every other Westem democracy has a single payer system and they pay HALF what we pay for healthcare. Why? Because they don't have to pay insurance companies, liablilty lawyers, and Big Pharma.

they pay less because health care is rationed. People wait and wait for procedures that are deemed less necessary by the government.


Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan: Betsy McCaughey - Bloomberg.com

The goal, Daschle’s book explained, is to slow the development and use of new medications and technologies because they are driving up costs. He praises Europeans for being more willing to accept “hopeless diagnoses” and “forgo experimental treatments,” and he chastises Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system.

So the goal of government controlled health care is to slow progress and the development of new equipment. In other words let's go backwards not forwards

And just accept that if you have a "hopeless" diagnosis. if you don't accept it, the government will deny you the chance to pursue potentially life prolonging treatment because it's too expensive and quite frankly, you're just not worth the expense.

Now that's a kinder, gentler health care system.

Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

which means if Grandma needs a hip replacement, the government will decide that if she still has one good hip that she can wait and bear the pain.

or if grandpa is suffering from macular degeneration in one eye, the government will decide that he will have to wait until he is going blind in both eyes before he is treated.

And for those of you who think that somehow the government will be able to run health care cheaply

The stimulus bill will affect every part of health care, from medical and nursing education, to how patients are treated and how much hospitals get paid. The bill allocates more funding for this bureaucracy than for the Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force combined

You can keep your government health care.

 

[editec]

In a proposed single payer system the state insurer rations health care.

In the current private insurers system the corporations ration health care.

The only major differences are these:

1. The private insurers cost more overall, and
2. The way that the HC is rationed is different. In the single payer system everybody is subject to the process of HC denied, while in the current system only the poor are subject to the ration process.

Neither system will work well until somebody can do someting REAL about the continuing rise in the cost of HC.

 

[Bullypulpit]

This year, an estimated 1.5 million Americans will declare bankruptcy. Many people may chalk up that misfortune to overspending or a lavish lifestyle, but a new study suggests that more than 60 percent of people who go bankrupt are actually capsized by medical bills.

Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.

"Unless you're a Warren Buffett or Bill Gates, you're one illness away from financial ruin in this country," says lead author Steffie Woolhandler, M.D., of the Harvard Medical School, in Cambridge, Mass. "If an illness is long enough and expensive enough, private insurance offers very little protection against medical bankruptcy, and that's the major finding in our study."

Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies - CNN.com

There's nothing "new" about it. It's been going on for years. I see the problem every day as I work with the social workers in CCU to make sure patients can get the meds they need when they're discharged simply because they can't afford the the cost of those meds. They may have insurance, but after the cost of a stay in cardiac intensive care their life-time benefit can be wiped out, never mind those who can't afford insurance to begin with.

Welcome to the world of regulation ... you can't expect the prices to go down while all competition is being regulated out of business by the government, can you.

And no, it's not about "regulation" of insurance providers. It's about health-care for profit. It's about doctors having to hire staff to deal with 20 or 30 insurance providers. It's about nearly 20% of Americans under 65 who don't have health insurance...A few facts...

- Nearly 46 million Americans, or 18 percent of the population under the age of 65, were without health insurance in 2007, the latest government data available.1
- The number of uninsured rose 2.2 million between 2005 and 2006 and has increased by almost 8 million people since 2000.1
- The large majority of the uninsured (80 percent) are native or naturalized citizens.
- The increase in the number of uninsured in 2006 was focused among working age adults. The percentage of working adults (18 to 64) who had no health coverage climbed from 19.7 percent in 2005 to 20.2 percent in 2006.1 Nearly 1.3 million full-time workers lost their health insurance in 2006. - NCHC

Like it or not, we ALL pay for health-care for those without in the form of higher insurance premiums and higher deductibles which only serves to exacerbate the problem as more and more people succumb to that vicious cycle. And let's not forget that the average ER visit, which the uninsured rely on for their PRIMARY care instead of a routine doctor visit, can cost any where form $600 to $1400 or more versus a routine office visit which only costs $100 to $200.

Single payer health-care is not "socialism"...It's just common sense.

 

[Bullypulpit]

It's not irrational not to want government to make my healthcare decisions.

Move to Canada, chump.

Unless you have something substantive to add to the discussion at hand, go have a nice...big...cup of STFU.

 

[American Horse]

Welcome to the world of regulation ... you can't expect the prices to go down while all competition is being regulated out of business by the government, can you.

Right...because in those countries where healthcare is so much cheaper (see Canada, UK, France, Germany...well, pretty much anywhere), they have so much less regulation than we do.

You have a severe case of the stupids and a irrational phobia of regulation.

Not only is healthcare cheaper in every other Western democracy, but because our companies are the only ones in the world that have to pay for healthcare, they are at a huge competitive disadvantage.

The lack of national healthcare is killing American business.

Because there is less of it doesn't make it cheaper, just more of it is being rationed or denied to those in need. Because it is such a large sector of our economy doesn't make it more expensive, it simply means that it is more available to everyone but the costs areactually being recognized in the economy, unlike those other Western Democracies.

The person who incurred a $700,000 medical bill back a few posts simply wouldn't have been able to get that much medical service in any other Western Democracy, and the real cost to them is a bankruptcy filing and having that on their financial record. I just just hope that person benefited from it.

And that last part of your comment about our companies having to pay for healthcare is simply not the case, nor is it even the case they have to pay for employees insurance. It's just a competitive inducement on thier part to attract and keep employees, and something that should be done a whole lot less so that everyone can get insurance; what needs to be fixed is the insurance model, and most of those problems arise out of our government's involvement in it, well meaning though it may be.

 

[Chris]

Right...because in those countries where healthcare is so much cheaper (see Canada, UK, France, Germany...well, pretty much anywhere), they have so much less regulation than we do.

You have a severe case of the stupids and a irrational phobia of regulation.

Not only is healthcare cheaper in every other Western democracy, but because our companies are the only ones in the world that have to pay for healthcare, they are at a huge competitive disadvantage.

The lack of national healthcare is killing American business.

Because there is less of it doesn't make it cheaper, just more of it is being rationed or denied to those in need. Because it is such a large sector of our economy doesn't make it more expensive, it simply means that it is more available to everyone but the costs areactually being recognized in the economy, unlike those other Western Democracies.

The person who incurred a $700,000 medical bill back a few posts simply wouldn't have been able to get that much medical service in any other Western Democracy, and the real cost to them is a bankruptcy filing and having that on their financial record. I just just hope that person benefited from it.

And that last part of your comment about our companies having to pay for healthcare is simply not the case, nor is it even the case they have to pay for employees insurance. It's just a competitive inducement on thier part to attract and keep employees, and something that should be done a whole lot less so that everyone can get insurance; what needs to be fixed is the insurance model, and most of those problems arise out of our government's involvement in it, well meaning though it may be.

An amusing post.

Yes, companies have to pay for healthcare in America. To say otherwise is absurd.

The reason every other Western democracy uses a single payer system is that a single payer system is more efficient and cheaper. Less overhead because they don't have to pay insurance companies, liability lawyers, and Big Pharma. Americans are so stupid and arrogant that they ignore what the rest of the world has known for years.....for profit healthcare puts the emphasis on the wrong thing....making money off of sick people.

 

[Bullypulpit]

It's not irrational not to want government to make my healthcare decisions.

Move to Canada, chump.

Instead you want a huge for profit corporation? Because they are running things so wonderfully, eh?

And don't have too. Obama is going to implement socialized (to an extent) medicine. Don't like it? Move to zimbabwe, *****. They have a great system where only the rich get anything at all, should be right up your ally.

So the Gov moves into a sector in which things are going smoothly, mandates, regulates, and subsumes it and causes great harm to that sector, removing almost all competition, and then moves to take it over to make certain that it operates fairly and efficiently into the future. We can expect something on a par to Amtrak as a reliable provider of services.
.

What is your definition of "smoothly"? The health-care industry in America is anything but smooth sailing, with more and more people under or uninsured the rest of us are forced to pay the rising costs of health-care in the form of higher premiums, higher deductibles and fewer benefits. It's a vicious cycle that is only going to intensify the longer nothing is done about it. There is no upside to allowing the system to continue as it is.

And then there are the unrealistic expectations on the part of patients and their families. When you have an 80-something patient with dementia, adult failure to thrive, and dysphagia as a result of past strokes as a full code and on ventilator support because the family thinks grandpa/grandma is going to miraculously arise from the bed and walk out...There is a serious misuse of resources. And I see it every...freakin'...day. And, of course,the docs go along with it because they don't want the hassle of being sued for confronting the family with the reality of the situation. But being the good RN that I am, I care for them, I turn them every two hours, I clean them when they've soiled themselves, I treat the decubiti they come from the ECF with, and when they code, I push meds, I do chest compressions even though I feel the wet snap of their fragile ribs as I try to get the blood moving. I then confront the disbelief of the family as they "just can't believe (s)he's gone.

So you see, the problem with health-care in America is multi-tiered. You have for profit companies benefiting from, and contributing to, the suffering of others...You have families doctors dancing around the realities of patient condition...you have more and more under and uninsured individuals relying on emergency rooms for their primary care, they get there sicker and have longer hospital stays with poorer outcomes than they would otherwise. Branding single-payer health-care with the label of "socialism" is a gross oversimplification of the issue. But that's how the right wing works...oversimplify the issue and avoid any discussion of the real problems.

 

[sealybobo]

This year, an estimated 1.5 million Americans will declare bankruptcy. Many people may chalk up that misfortune to overspending or a lavish lifestyle, but a new study suggests that more than 60 percent of people who go bankrupt are actually capsized by medical bills.

Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.

"Unless you're a Warren Buffett or Bill Gates, you're one illness away from financial ruin in this country," says lead author Steffie Woolhandler, M.D., of the Harvard Medical School, in Cambridge, Mass. "If an illness is long enough and expensive enough, private insurance offers very little protection against medical bankruptcy, and that's the major finding in our study."

Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies - CNN.com

I think healthcare reform is going to actually happen. Do you hear it? I have been having the conversation with many people. And I'm not the one bringing it up.

People who aren't happy with Obama got to chill. He's doing things as fast as he can. And nothing is guaranteed, so we have to help him get these things done. Even though Healthcare is a mess, we're still arguing with idiots that there is even a problem. Typical pattern, huh Chris? First deny, then distract, then spin, then admit but blame the other party, all the time never stop actually questioning if there is even a problem, and then spin if cornered with facts.

And bash asshole Democrats like Max Baucus. Son of a ***** is working for the healthcare industry, not his constituents. Why does one man have so much power? He's corrupt, so get him off the ******* committee!

The fact that his constituents are leaning on him says that enough Americans have finally woke up that this is a problem.

I found this on Max:

Call to Action: Health Reform 2009

This is his plan for healthcare reform. Doesn't even want single payer to have a seat at the table? And the reforms that the healthcare providers want to give us are a joke! And Max wants us to pay more when we go to the doctor. That's his solution. For us to pay more. That will fix the high costs of healthcare.

 

[GHook93]

This year, an estimated 1.5 million Americans will declare bankruptcy. Many people may chalk up that misfortune to overspending or a lavish lifestyle, but a new study suggests that more than 60 percent of people who go bankrupt are actually capsized by medical bills.

Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.

"Unless you're a Warren Buffett or Bill Gates, you're one illness away from financial ruin in this country," says lead author Steffie Woolhandler, M.D., of the Harvard Medical School, in Cambridge, Mass. "If an illness is long enough and expensive enough, private insurance offers very little protection against medical bankruptcy, and that's the major finding in our study."

Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies - CNN.com

This is 100% true! I believe healthcare is where the right loses many in the middle class. You here elites on the radio and TV, such as Hannity and Rush, calling out healthcare system the best in the world, when many people from the middle class are bankrupted by it!

 

[editec]

Right...because in those countries where healthcare is so much cheaper (see Canada, UK, France, Germany...well, pretty much anywhere), they have so much less regulation than we do.

You have a severe case of the stupids and a irrational phobia of regulation.

Not only is healthcare cheaper in every other Western democracy, but because our companies are the only ones in the world that have to pay for healthcare, they are at a huge competitive disadvantage.

The lack of national healthcare is killing American business.

Because there is less of it doesn't make it cheaper, just more of it is being rationed or denied to those in need. Because it is such a large sector of our economy doesn't make it more expensive, it simply means that it is more available to everyone but the costs areactually being recognized in the economy, unlike those other Western Democracies.

The person who incurred a $700,000 medical bill back a few posts simply wouldn't have been able to get that much medical service in any other Western Democracy,

Poppycock.

I can assure you that had that fellow gotten hit in most European nations or Canada, he'd have gotten the same care.

and the real cost to them is a bankruptcy filing and having that on their financial record. I just just hope that person benefited from it.

Yes, that is true. We are however talking about bankruptsy filings and health care are we not?

And that last part of your comment about our companies having to pay for healthcare is simply not the case, nor is it even the case they have to pay for employees insurance.

I'm not sure I said anything about companies having to pay for healthcare.

 

[American Horse]

Not only is healthcare cheaper in every other Western democracy, but because our companies are the only ones in the world that have to pay for healthcare, they are at a huge competitive disadvantage.

The lack of national healthcare is killing American business.

Because there is less of it doesn't make it cheaper, just more of it is being rationed or denied to those in need. Because it is such a large sector of our economy doesn't make it more expensive, it simply means that it is more available to everyone but the costs areactually being recognized in the economy, unlike those other Western Democracies.



Poppycock.


I can assure you that had that fellow gotten hit in most European nations or Canada, he'd have gotten the same care.



Yes, that is true. We are however talking about bankruptsy filings and health care are we not?

And that last part of your comment about our companies having to pay for healthcare is simply not the case, nor is it even the case they have to pay for employees insurance.

I'm not sure I said anything about companies having to pay for healthcare.

Ed,

You tangled some quote tags which misattributed some comments made by me. Would you mind correcting that with an edit?

xxxx

 

[editec]

AH, sorry.

This mutiquote function is annoying as hell, and it seems to do this misquoting thing periodically. Happened to me, too.

Since I am not inclined to spend a great deal of time wading back up through to determine who actually posted what, I've take the liberty of attributing those quotes to somebody or the other.

I presume they're recognize their own words.