Massacre in Jerusalem

[P F Tinmore]

It makes you wonder why Israel planted itself in the middle of its enemies. They should have looked for a place where they would have friends.

Enemies? Now why would the Jewish people and the Arab Muslims be enemies? In particular, how were they enemies before the re-creation of Israel, as you suggest here? Aren't you one of the ones who is always saying that the Jews and the Arabs got along fine before? So, in fact, Israel planted herself in the middle of her friends.

The true question here, then, is why the Jewish people's friends turned on her?

The Palestinians have no problem with Jews. It is the Zionists who came in as enemies.

 

[rylah]

It makes you wonder why Israel planted itself in the middle of its enemies. They should have looked for a place where they would have friends.

Enemies? Now why would the Jewish people and the Arab Muslims be enemies? In particular, how were they enemies before the re-creation of Israel, as you suggest here? Aren't you one of the ones who is always saying that the Jews and the Arabs got along fine before? So, in fact, Israel planted herself in the middle of her friends.

The true question here, then, is why the Jewish people's friends turned on her?

The Palestinians have no problem with Jews. It is the Zionists who came in as enemies.

Sure they had no problems with the Jews, it was pretty easy for the Arab Palestinians to use Palestinian Jews as slaves and tax them extra for merely being Jews.

Then again during the Falah rebellion they had no problem targeting the Jews to make a political point.

When Jews were a minority they had no problems doing what they wanted.

 

[montelatici]

When did the Arab Palestinians Christians or Muslims ever have the authority to "tax" the Jews? The Ottomans did the taxing.

 

[Hollie]

From Right to Left: Shira Zur, Yael Yekuthiel, Shir Hajaj and Erez Orbach.

So, where are your 2000 or so pictures of the Palestinians killed in Gaza?

Why would I have their pictures?

I mourn for my people before I mourn for the people of my enemies.

It makes you wonder why Israel planted itself in the middle of its enemies. They should have looked for a place where they would have friends.

Of course you have to "wonder why". Islamic fascists presume an entitlement to behavior that the modern world finds reprehensible.

I'm sure that Judaism's historical connection to the land in the "middle of its enemies" means nothing to you because you are simply ignorant of those facts. I'm sure you are also ignorant of the fact that Judasim preceded the invention of Islam by millennia. How curious that all competing religions are the "enemies of Islamism". In all locations where Islamists have an advantage of strength of numbers, we see a typical pattern of abuse and antagonism toward those competing religions.

 

[Hollie]

When did the Arab Palestinians Christians or Muslims ever have the authority to "tax" the Jews? The Ottomans did the taxing.

I'm sure your ignorance of the facts is a convenient excuse but the Ottomans controlled the land you believe to be your mythical "country of Pal'istan which is why they controlled the taxes levied. Why would the Arab-Moslem squatters have any right to tax others on land they didn't own or control?

 

[RoccoR]

JoeB131, et al,

The League of Nations DID NOT give away anyones land. That is one of the big misconceptions.

And yourefuse to accept that the arab muslims are the ones doing the stealing. You refuse to accept that International Laws work just as much in the Jews favour as yours, you refuse to accept that the arab muslims were given 78% of palestine and the Jews 22%

Again, the LON had no business giving away other peoples land... so not so much.

But I'm done with this thread.

(COMMENT)

The former Sovereign Authority, the Ottoman Empire and Turkish Republic, renounces their Title and Rights to those territories; for the Allied Powers to decide the futures.

Remember, we are talking about the assumption of sovereignty as opposed to a real-estate deal. Israel came about under self-determination.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Shusha]

The Palestinians have no problem with Jews. It is the Zionists who came in as enemies.

Really? So what turned friend into enemy then? We had been getting along great, as you say. Why suddenly were we enemies?

Was it because there were too many of us? Was it the fact that we no longer wished to be dhimmis? Was it the fact that we wanted our own self-determination? Was it our presence in numbers, or our status in society, or our right to our own self-determination which turned us into enemies?

See, what happened is that you created this fiction that we were enemies -- that we were stealing your land, that we were foreigners, that we oppressed you, and wanted to rule you and remove you from your place in the land, and in the world. None of these things were true. What we really wanted was the same thing you claim to want -- to live in the land of our ancestors, to be treated as equals with dignity and respect, to worship in our Holy Places and to raise our families in peace. We wanted self-determination. Same as you. We wanted not to be living in a forced Diaspora. Same as you. (And let's be honest here our Diaspora is not the equivalent of yours.) We wanted to form our own destiny. Same as you. And protect our people. Same as you.

You also created the fiction that there are two kinds of Jews -- the real ones and the Zionists (TM), who became acceptable cannon fodder for your ideological hatred and allowed you to pretend that it had nothing to do with Jews (because you love Jews as long as they are "real" and dhimmi and scarce and have no right to self-determination and no land of their own).

The reality was (and is) that there was no reason for us to be enemies. There was (and is) plenty of room in the land of our ancestors to share. There is plenty of room to worship, side-by-side, on the Temple Mount/Noble Sanctuary.

And there is plenty of evidence that this is true. Look at Israel. She is no where near perfect -- but Arabs and Jews live there, together. They support each other, they learn from each other, they live and travel and work and play together. (I wish I could say the same of Muslim countries, but sadly none of them have enough Jews remaining to even give a proper example. I could probably give a go with Morocco.) Look at Canada where we celebrate multi-culturalism, plurality and diversity. Immigration of "foreigners" (though the Jewish people are NOT foreigners) is, of itself, not cause to create an enemy.

The problem is actually as you say. Arab Muslims view us as enemies. It is not because of one thing. And its not because of any actions of the Jewish people. Its a clusterfuck of religious ideology, the rise of anti-semitism in the Arab world, Arab and Muslim insularity, the ridiculous idea that there is such a thing as Arab land which can only ever be Arab land and that no one else has rights to it -- even those who clearly have at least some rights to it, the Arab fear of losing face and the Arab fear of "other".

And it comes down to this thread. Where "enemies" have been killed. And Palestinians are celebrating in the streets with fireworks as though the fact that Jewish people are dead is a reason to throw a party. That dead Jews should give you joy. And its not a celebration of a win. Four dead Jews means nothing in the overall goals for the conflict. Its not a victory. It doesn't give you "your" Arabs-only land back. Its four dead Jews. It accomplishes nothing. Except cementing the idea that Jews are the enemy and that enemies should be dead.

 

[montelatici]

JoeB131, et al,

The League of Nations DID NOT give away anyones land. That is one of the big misconceptions.

And yourefuse to accept that the arab muslims are the ones doing the stealing. You refuse to accept that International Laws work just as much in the Jews favour as yours, you refuse to accept that the arab muslims were given 78% of palestine and the Jews 22%

Again, the LON had no business giving away other peoples land... so not so much.

But I'm done with this thread.

(COMMENT)

The former Sovereign Authority, the Ottoman Empire and Turkish Republic, renounces their Title and Rights to those territories; for the Allied Powers to decide the futures.

Remember, we are talking about the assumption of sovereignty as opposed to a real-estate deal. Israel came about under self-determination.

Most Respectfully,
R

Remember the principle of well-being and development was to accrue to the inhabitants, not people in Europe.

"ARTICLE 22.
To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilisation and that securities for the performance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.

The best method of giving practical effect to this principle is that the tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources, their experience or their geographical position can best undertake this responsibility, and who are willing to accept it, and that this tutelage should be exercised by them as Mandatories on behalf of the League....."

 

[flacaltenn]

Sorry. Apologies to the OP. But I gave fair warning just a page ago. The SECOND mod to do so in this thread.

This thread has devolved into the same old, same old. And is NOT on topic. We're cracking down again here. And folks will respect specific topics or people are gonna leave this forum..

 

[westwall]

Why its enemies chose the land of the Jews instead of half island of Arabia to settle in? That is also a legitimate question.

Because they have been living there peacefully for hundreds of years. They were not the enemies of anybody.

They have? I think the Sunni's and Shiite's would beg to differ with you as they have been murdering each other for hundreds of years in that area.