Mark 16:9

[rstrats]

A poster on another thread, the topic of which was questioning the authenticity of the last 12 verses in the book of Mark, wrote that it doesn’t really matter because there is no doctrinal teaching in Mark 16:9-20 that cannot be proved elsewhere in agreed Scripture.


I made the mistake of sticking my nose into the discussion by pointing out that actually there is a statement in verse 9, as the KJV and similar versions have it, that is used for a doctrinal teaching that is to be found nowhere else in Scripture. As the KJV translates it, it is the only place that puts the resurrection on the first day of the week. I then suggested that whenever the discussion of seventh day observance versus first day observance comes up, first day proponents usually use the idea of a first day resurrection to justify the change, and when questioned about the day of resurrection, quote Mark 16:9. The poster came back with: “Quote a published author who has done that.” - I have not yet been able to come up with one. Does anyone here know of one?

 

[rstrats]

Anyone?

 

[Mr. H.]

Move yourself
You always live your life
Never thinking of the future
Prove yourself
You are the move you make
Take your chances win or loser

Jon 9:01:25

 

[uscitizen]

I like the book of Jon Stewart.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

A poster on another thread, the topic of which was questioning the authenticity of the last 12 verses in the book of Mark, wrote that it doesn’t really matter because there is no doctrinal teaching in Mark 16:9-20 that cannot be proved elsewhere in agreed Scripture.


I made the mistake of sticking my nose into the discussion by pointing out that actually there is a statement in verse 9, as the KJV and similar versions have it, that is used for a doctrinal teaching that is to be found nowhere else in Scripture. As the KJV translates it, it is the only place that puts the resurrection on the first day of the week. I then suggested that whenever the discussion of seventh day observance versus first day observance comes up, first day proponents usually use the idea of a first day resurrection to justify the change, and when questioned about the day of resurrection, quote Mark 16:9. The poster came back with: “Quote a published author who has done that.” - I have not yet been able to come up with one. Does anyone here know of one?

It is not the only place that says that, it is the only place that says it that way. The rest of the time it was the day after the Sabbath, which is the last day of the week. That would, by definition, make the next day the first day of the week.

 

[Avatar4321]

So can I safely presume that verses 1-8 in Mark 16 are not being disputed by you rstrats?

 

[Moonglow]

the original day of Sabbath was Saturday. It was changed to honor the day of Christs' ressurection

 

[HenryBHough]

OMG! You may have a shrine in your living room.

Old-style televisions had a 4:3 aspect ratio. That is, four units wide for each three units tall.

But NEW wide-screens have a 16:9 aspect ratio!!!

Is that mere coincidence or did some clever designer force you to put a shrine in your living room where your children cannot help but be exposed to it constantly?

[/sarcastic font]

 

[Avatar4321]

Just did a search through the KJV for "First day" to see how many times it comes up in reference to the resurrection. Here's what I found:

In Mark 16, of course:

And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. (Mark 16:2)

Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. (Mark 16:9)

Matthew 28:1

In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

John 20:1

The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

John 20:19

Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Luke 24:1

Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

These are the references from the Gospels. All four of them mention it being the First day of the week and it being the Morning After the Sabbath. I am not sure where you are getting that it was only mentioned in Mark 16:9. That's not even the only reference in that chapter.

Among the search, I also found a reference to the earley saints worshiping on the first day of the week. Paul preached among them after they had communion. And it was on the first day
Acts 20:7

And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

I think there is sufficient evidence to support worship on the Lord's Day. Even if we go solely by the Bible.

And if we are going to talk about the Sabbath in the New Testament, I can't help but point out Colossians 2:12-17:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

It's interesting how he mentions people judging the early saints in regards to the Sabbath days right after he speaks about how Christ has redeemed us from the law.

This makes me ask two questions:

Was there a people other than the House of Israel who worshiped on the Sabbath?

If there wasn't, why would Christians be judged by the Sabbath they held if it was the same as the Jews?

 

[rstrats]

Quantum Windbag,

re: “It is not the only place that says that...”

I’m not aware of any other. What do you have in mind?

 

[rstrats]

Avatar 4231,

re: “So can I safely presume that verses 1-8 in Mark 16 are not being disputed...?”

That is a safe presumption.

 

[rstrats]

Avatar 4231,

re: “... I also found a reference to the earley saints worshiping on the first day of the week. Paul preached among them after they had communion. And it was on the first day
Acts 20:7.”


You are merely assuming that the “breaking bread” in Acts 20:7 is referring to the Lord’s Supper. Acts 20:7 could simply be saying that the disciples got together to eat a meal on this particular first day of the week . The phrase, “to break bread”, does not have to refer to a religious service - unless it is specifically stated - but to dividing loaves of bread for a meal. “It means to partake of food and is used of eating as in a meal...... The readers [of the original New Testament letters and manuscripts] could have had no other idea or meaning in their minds” (E.W.Bullinger, Figures of Speech Used in the Bible, pp. 839,840.

But even if “breaking bread” did always refer to the Lord’s Supper, Acts 2:46 says that the believers broke bread every day. In this case the need for any specialness being placed on the first day because of breaking bread would be eliminated.



re: “I think there is sufficient evidence to support worship on the Lord's Day. Even if we go solely by the Bible.”

Agreed, if by Lord’s Day you mean the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day. Matthew 12:8 - “For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath”.



re: “I think there is sufficient evidence to support worship on the Lord's Day. Even if we go solely by the Bible.”


Actually, as far as the Bible is concerned, there are only two times mentioned with regard to anybody getting together on the first (day) of the week - John 20:19 and Acts 20:7. There is never any mention of them ever again being together on the first. The John reference has them together in a closed room after the crucifixion because they were afraid of their fellow Jews. Nothing is said about a celebration, worship service or day of rest. And I addressed the Acts reference above.

 

[rstrats]

HenryBHough,

re: “OMG! You may have a shrine in your living room.”


I can’t quite put my finger on how that is responsive to my OP. I wonder if you might elaborate a bit?

 

[rstrats]

Anybody?

 

[rstrats]

Perhaps someone new will know of an author.

 

[rstrats]

Anyone?

 

[rstrats]

Since it has been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of an author.

 

[amrchaos]

Has it anyone thought that the reason for all these things occurring on the first day of the week because the day before is the Sabbath, which is a time of rest and to be kept holy in reverance to the father? So the resurrection occurred after the Sabbath, and one can preach the word of god ANYDAY of the week?

So the Sabbath should still be Saturday, not Sunday.

 

[rstrats]

Since it has again been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of an author.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

the original day of Sabbath was Saturday. It was changed to honor the day of Christs' ressurection

Sabbath is Jewish what are your talking about? You can't change their sabbath day