Mansfield Texas High School Shooting

You can’t be this stupid?
He is under 21. He had the gun illegally, he carried the gun illegally, he brought the gun into the school illegaly…..he fired it illegally.

And at this point we have the Gentle Giant/ Trayvon Martin story of the “good” kid on his way to medical school…….until we find out his real history…….
Hey, give me a chance --- I can be plenty stupid, really I can. I'm not so stupid as to put up with a lot of insults, however: your choice, have a conversation or get put on my Ignore list.

I think the news article about just letting a school shooter go may be one of those fake news article that parasites on a real crisis, because I just saw another where this Texas kid's lawyer is claiming self defense, but what status (free or imprisoned) the kid has right now, not clear to me.
 
Why do you think it is a good idea to leave potential victims defenseless?

I think it’s a horrible idea for multiple people (most likely with minimal skills and training) to be guessing at who the bad guy is and spaying bullets all over the damn place.

Cops feel the same way I might add. Feel insecure about your child’s school, the mall, or wherever?

Highly trained, armed security is the answer. Not a bunch of yahoos who fancy themselves as “good guys with guns”.
 
I think it’s a horrible idea for multiple people (most likely with minimal skills and training) to be guessing at who the bad guy is and spaying bullets all over the damn place.

Cops feel the same way I might add. Feel insecure about your child’s school, the mall, or wherever?

Highly trained, armed security is the answer. Not a bunch of yahoos who fancy themselves as “good guys with guns”.

Cops feel the same way I might add.


No..they actually don't.....

More than 91 percent of respondents support the concealed carry of firearms by civilians who have not been convicted of a felony and/or not been deemed psychologically/medically incapable.
A full 86 percent feel that casualties would have been reduced or avoided in recent tragedies like Newtown and Aurora if a legally-armed citizen was present (casualties reduced: 80 percent; avoided altogether: 60 percent).

Police Gun Control Survey: Are legally-armed citizens the best solution to gun violence?
=======

https://crimeresearch.org/2018/05/n...ncealed-handgun-reciprocity-and-other-issues/


National Association of Chiefs of Police Annual Surveys on Concealed Handgun Reciprocity and other issues - Crime Prevention Research Center

Concealed carry reciprocity: Support

29th annual Survey..... 88.62%
28th.............................86.4%
27th.............................63.3%

Can armed citizens help lower violent crime activity: Support

29th......75.77%
28th......76%
27th.......76.4%
 
I think it’s a horrible idea for multiple people (most likely with minimal skills and training) to be guessing at who the bad guy is and spaying bullets all over the damn place.

Cops feel the same way I might add. Feel insecure about your child’s school, the mall, or wherever?

Highly trained, armed security is the answer. Not a bunch of yahoos who fancy themselves as “good guys with guns”.


You know, you really have no clue...since we actually have real world experience of armed citizens in the middle of mass public shootings and other crimes...and it did not turn out the way your fantasy believes it did...

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

BREAKING: Man Opens Fire At Oklahoma Walmart, Confronted By Armed Citizen, Report Says

Two people were killed at a Walmart in Oklahoma by a man who opened fire in the parking lot on Monday before turning the weapon on himself after an armed citizen confronted him.
------


The assailant, who has not yet been identified, shot and killed a man and a woman in the parking lot and when he was “confronted by an armed citizen, he then turned the gun on himself,” The Daily Mail reported.
 
I think it’s a horrible idea for multiple people (most likely with minimal skills and training) to be guessing at who the bad guy is and spaying bullets all over the damn place.

Cops feel the same way I might add. Feel insecure about your child’s school, the mall, or wherever?

Highly trained, armed security is the answer. Not a bunch of yahoos who fancy themselves as “good guys with guns”.


Besides...it isn't my job to save lives....my gun on my hip is to help me and my family get out of the target area.......while I may assist others....I will leave shooting the actual bad guy to the police...but if he is in the way or targets me or my family, that is why I have my gun....
 
Besides...it isn't my job to save lives....my gun on my hip is to help me and my family get out of the target area.......while I may assist others....I will leave shooting the actual bad guy to the police...but if he is in the way or targets me or my family, that is why I have my gun....

You are smarter than some. Seems like every time we have one of these events, we have people here claiming that if more people had been packing, the shooter could have been stopped.

Maybe, maybe not but chances lots better that someone would have shot the wrong guy.
 
You know, you really have no clue...since we actually have real world experience of armed citizens in the middle of mass public shootings and other crimes...and it did not turn out the way your fantasy believes it did...

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====


One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.


BREAKING: Man Opens Fire At Oklahoma Walmart, Confronted By Armed Citizen, Report Says

Two people were killed at a Walmart in Oklahoma by a man who opened fire in the parking lot on Monday before turning the weapon on himself after an armed citizen confronted him.
------


The assailant, who has not yet been identified, shot and killed a man and a woman in the parking lot and when he was “confronted by an armed citizen, he then turned the gun on himself,” The Daily Mail reported.

DailyWire, DailyMail and ConcealedCarry.com purportedly citing FBI statistics.

Sorry man, show me the FBI data on an actual FBI site, and not an interpretation of said data.
 
DailyWire, DailyMail and ConcealedCarry.com purportedly citing FBI statistics.

Sorry man, show me the FBI data on an actual FBI site, and not an interpretation of said data.


When they release it in proper format I will...I have linked to the FBI homicide tables in the past and will when the new info comes out...till then, those sources simply link to the information released to the press...
 
You are smarter than some. Seems like every time we have one of these events, we have people here claiming that if more people had been packing, the shooter could have been stopped.

Maybe, maybe not but chances lots better that someone would have shot the wrong guy.


They are right.....gun free zones attract these shooters...if we stopped gun free zones, the majority of these shooters wouldn't attack....

And again...


Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.


BREAKING: Man Opens Fire At Oklahoma Walmart, Confronted By Armed Citizen, Report Says

Two people were killed at a Walmart in Oklahoma by a man who opened fire in the parking lot on Monday before turning the weapon on himself after an armed citizen confronted him.
------

The assailant, who has not yet been identified, shot and killed a man and a woman in the parking lot and when he was “confronted by an armed citizen, he then turned the gun on himself,” The Daily Mail reported.
 
Cops feel the same way I might add.


No..they actually don't.....

More than 91 percent of respondents support the concealed carry of firearms by civilians who have not been convicted of a felony and/or not been deemed psychologically/medically incapable.
A full 86 percent feel that casualties would have been reduced or avoided in recent tragedies like Newtown and Aurora if a legally-armed citizen was present (casualties reduced: 80 percent; avoided altogether: 60 percent).

Police Gun Control Survey: Are legally-armed citizens the best solution to gun violence?
=======

https://crimeresearch.org/2018/05/n...ncealed-handgun-reciprocity-and-other-issues/


National Association of Chiefs of Police Annual Surveys on Concealed Handgun Reciprocity and other issues - Crime Prevention Research Center

Concealed carry reciprocity: Support

29th annual Survey..... 88.62%
28th.............................86.4%
27th.............................63.3%

Can armed citizens help lower violent crime activity: Support

29th......75.77%
28th......76%
27th.......76.4%

More of your dubious gunner sources. See link below and keep in mind that Wisconsin had (or at least to have) very strict licensing/ training requirements for CC.

A majority of states now have absolutely NO such requirements, meaning that any bonehead can play badass & CC.

Read please:

 
More of your dubious gunner sources. See link below and keep in mind that Wisconsin had (or at least to have) very strict licensing/ training requirements for CC.

A majority of states now have absolutely NO such requirements, meaning that any bonehead can play badass & CC.

Read please:



Sorry...that is a lie......people who get permits are law abiding, and not likely to turn into criminals simply because they have a carry permit..

What you have here is another case of democrats controlling a city...they have controlled milwaukee since 1881....them or the socialist party..

They have also controlled Madison since 1997 and before that, one Republican then in 1983 democrats...again.............the rest democrats or likely democrat since party affiliation wasn't given

So no, it isn't concealed carry people committing gun crime.....doofus....it is democrat party prosecutors and judges releasing violent criminals from jail and prison.......the ones actually doing the shooting, and they don't have concealed carry permits....

And more on the myth of Concealed carry criminals...this article shows the lies inherent in the anti-concealed carry argument.....the need they have to lie since the facts, the truth and reality don't support what they claim...

On its face, that claim is contrary to the wealth of data indicating that concealed-carry permit holders are one of the most law-abiding populations in the nation.
---
Moreover, concealed-carry permit holders are not “random people,” but individuals with the government’s affirmative approval to carry a concealed firearm in public places after having completed a series of steps required by the government.

It’s hardly surprising, then, that the Violence Policy Center claim falls apart when even the slightest bit of scrutiny is applied to it.

Not only is the claim based on a grossly misleading characterization of what the database actually captures, but the numbers from the database flatly contradict the Violence Policy Center’s claim that America’s 18 million concealed-carry permit holders represent a serious risk to public safety.
---
The Study Grossly Mischaracterizes the Data


Beyond the immediately suspect nature of the Violence Policy Center’s claims, the database erroneously includes many deaths that are not attributable to the misuse of a concealed-carry permit.

The anti-gun group defines “non-self-defense incident” to include virtually any fatality involving a concealed-carry permit holder, including ones that do not remotely resemble the type of intentional homicide evoked by the Violence Policy Center’s strong claims about public safety.

For example, roughly 40% of the deaths (534 of 1,335) are suicides. While tragic, firearm suicides are not what a term like “concealed-carry killer” brings to mind.

Moreover, analysis of the remaining “non-self-defense” deaths also belies the group’s use of the term.


The Violence Policy Center includes many fatalities where the shooter’s concealed-carry permit was irrelevant because he or she did not carry a concealed weapon in public while perpetrating the crime.


For example, the database includes a Nov. 11, 2008, death where a permit holder fatally shot her husband in their own backyard, and a June 12, 2012, death where the permit holder fatally shot his wife while she slept in their own bedroom.

Had their respective states never issued a concealed-carry permit to a single person, these shooters still would have been in lawful possession of these firearms inside their own homes.


 
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2aguy
Several years back, several law enforcement leaders in Idaho spoke out against concealed carry on college campuses.


Legislators passed it anyway - cuz u know, Idaho. The following year an innocent kid was tragically killed at a Boise State party.

All these years later, have these “good guys with guns” stopped even one bad guy with a gun? Nope. Not a one.
 
2aguy
Several years back, several law enforcement leaders in Idaho spoke out against concealed carry on college campuses.


Legislators passed it anyway - cuz u know, Idaho. The following year an innocent kid was tragically killed at a Boise State party.

All these years later, have these “good guys with guns” stopped even one bad guy with a gun? Nope. Not a one.


Yeah....and they were wrong.....

One kid, from 2012........really? That is what you have?...............who shot him? Can you give a link? Because most if not all of the shootings on campuses are people from off of campus...you know, criminals....

What do actual police have to say about concealed carry in general?

More than 91 percent of respondents support the concealed carry of firearms by civilians who have not been convicted of a felony and/or not been deemed psychologically/medically incapable.
A full 86 percent feel that casualties would have been reduced or avoided in recent tragedies like Newtown and Aurora if a legally-armed citizen was present (casualties reduced: 80 percent; avoided altogether: 60 percent).
Police Gun Control Survey: Are legally-armed citizens the best solution to gun violence?
=======

https://crimeresearch.org/2018/05/n...ncealed-handgun-reciprocity-and-other-issues/


National Association of Chiefs of Police Annual Surveys on Concealed Handgun Reciprocity and other issues - Crime Prevention Research Center

Concealed carry reciprocity: Support

29th annual Survey..... 88.62%
28th.............................86.4%
27th.............................63.3%

Can armed citizens help lower violent crime activity: Support

29th......75.77%
28th......76%
27th.......76.4%
 
2aguy
Several years back, several law enforcement leaders in Idaho spoke out against concealed carry on college campuses.


Legislators passed it anyway - cuz u know, Idaho. The following year an innocent kid was tragically killed at a Boise State party.

All these years later, have these “good guys with guns” stopped even one bad guy with a gun? Nope. Not a one.


I am trying to find that story.....you should link to the shooting.....so we can discuss it....
 
2aguy
People who get permits? Lol, NO permits or training is required for Concealed in 8 states (it may be 10 now) and over half require no permitting or training on open carry.

 
2aguy
Several years back, several law enforcement leaders in Idaho spoke out against concealed carry on college campuses.


Legislators passed it anyway - cuz u know, Idaho. The following year an innocent kid was tragically killed at a Boise State party.

All these years later, have these “good guys with guns” stopped even one bad guy with a gun? Nope. Not a one.

Yeah....you don't know WTF you are talking about....

OGDEN, Utah (ABC4) – A 41-year-old man is in custody after allegedly trying to kidnap an 11-year-old girl in Ogden.

Ogden police were called to a local elementary school Tuesday after a teacher was able to stop the attempted kidnapping.

“An employee was watching the kids from the inside and observed the suspect walk up to this 11-year-old girl (on the playground) and put his hands on her in an attempt to take her,” says Lt. Brian Eynon of the Ogden City Police Department. “He ran outside, the employee did, and confronted the suspect. At that same time, the girl had the ability to pull away from the suspect.”

The teacher was able to get all 20 students off the playground and into the school.

Police the 41-year-old suspect, Ira Cox-Berry, then approached the building and began punching the window in an attempt to force his way inside.

That’s when the employee, a concealed carry permit holder, produced a firearm and held Cox-Berry off while calling 911.

 
2aguy
People who get permits? Lol, NO permits or training is required for Concealed in 8 states (it may be 10 now) and over half require no permitting or training on open carry.



Yep.....and yet criminals have never needed permits to carry.......so why do you think normal people who carry guns will all of a sudden become criminals simply because they carry a gun for self defense?

That dumb ass line of reasoning never makes any sense...........normal person, carries a gun, then all of a sudden decides to rob someone or shoot someone...

Does not happen...

The criminals carry guns illegally every day...........
 
Yeah....you don't know WTF you are talking about....

OGDEN, Utah (ABC4) – A 41-year-old man is in custody after allegedly trying to kidnap an 11-year-old girl in Ogden.

Ogden police were called to a local elementary school Tuesday after a teacher was able to stop the attempted kidnapping.

“An employee was watching the kids from the inside and observed the suspect walk up to this 11-year-old girl (on the playground) and put his hands on her in an attempt to take her,” says Lt. Brian Eynon of the Ogden City Police Department. “He ran outside, the employee did, and confronted the suspect. At that same time, the girl had the ability to pull away from the suspect.”

The teacher was able to get all 20 students off the playground and into the school.

Police the 41-year-old suspect, Ira Cox-Berry, then approached the building and began punching the window in an attempt to force his way inside.


That’s when the employee, a concealed carry permit holder, produced a firearm and held Cox-Berry off while calling 911.

Must have been a psychotic. We so badly need better control of the crazies.
 
I am trying to find that story.....you should link to the shooting.....so we can discuss it....

Here are two such incidents:

 
Haven't read the whole thread, but from what I have seen on the news, the kid "is really just a good kid" was bullied and robbed when at school. WHEN, I think, is the key word. From pics posted, this guy was a gangbanger so not such a "basically a good kid".

Therefore, he has been released on bail. Released. After shooting up the ones he was pissed off at. Cuz he's black. So, he gets a pass?

I was bullied in school too. Until my dad taught me how to defend myself. Then they left me alone. Robbed me of my lunch money too. But that stopped as well. I didn't get his gun and go shoot the assholes.
 

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