Man Killed By His Own Dogs -- How Could This Happen?

[Coyote]

I wouldn't worry about that as long as conjob is breeding......and I'm not talking about breeding dogs

so.....like....what's this obsession with Conhog?

He is fun to pick on because the more you disagree with him, the angrier he gets. And as he gets angrier and angrier, the things he says gets funnier and funnier.

He's the proverbial guy stuck in a hole who keeps on digging. I'm the guy with a backhoe

You remind me suspiciously of my little brother....an expert button pusher....

 

[topspin]

Pits are a very misunderstood breed.

I once spoke with a guy involved in dog fighting.

He told me that way back when fighting was not against the law and fights were held all the time if a dog showed agression towards a human that dog automatically put down by the owner. Didn't matter how good a fighter this dog was, agression towards humans was not tolerated. He said that made it easier to handle the dogs during a fight. Go figure.

Did I believe him?? He had no reason to lie about it.

Funny how things change. You now have pitbulls going after people all the time. May other breeds as well.

I don't own a pit but have friends that do. They love their dogs and wouldn 't have any other breed.

I have heard that also, and most of the pits I've met have been awesome dogs to handle. I think the change occurred though, when the purpose for having a pit changed - people want a tough aggressive dog in association with gangs/drugs/etc and rather than choosing a breed that already had that reputation, they started selecting for it in Pits and mixes.

I read once that the large majority of pit bull attacks occurred under two conditions

1) More than one dog involved
2) the dogs were running loose

That's why those who fear leaving an older child with a PB are needlessly and ignorantly fearful.

that's retarded, you leave your kid with a pitbull. Me no thanks, they bite kids in the owners families all the time.

 

[Coyote]

I have heard that also, and most of the pits I've met have been awesome dogs to handle. I think the change occurred though, when the purpose for having a pit changed - people want a tough aggressive dog in association with gangs/drugs/etc and rather than choosing a breed that already had that reputation, they started selecting for it in Pits and mixes.

I read once that the large majority of pit bull attacks occurred under two conditions

1) More than one dog involved
2) the dogs were running loose

That's why those who fear leaving an older child with a PB are needlessly and ignorantly fearful.

that's retarded, you leave your kid with a pitbull. Me no thanks, they bite kids in the owners families all the time.

That's retarded.

If Pitbulls "bit kids in the owners families all the time" there would be far more than the roughly 23 or so dog-bite fatalities (all breeds combined) that occur in the year.

 

[topspin]

I read once that the large majority of pit bull attacks occurred under two conditions

1) More than one dog involved
2) the dogs were running loose

That's why those who fear leaving an older child with a PB are needlessly and ignorantly fearful.

that's retarded, you leave your kid with a pitbull. Me no thanks, they bite kids in the owners families all the time.

That's retarded.

If Pitbulls "bit kids in the owners families all the time" there would be far more than the roughly 23 or so dog-bite fatalities (all breeds combined) that occur in the year.

several happened in my area, feel free to leave little kids around pits I'll stick to non killers

 

[Anguille]

Only an idiot would think a PB poses a greater risk to a 14yo than a GD.

I've read a lot of truly retarded posts since I've been here, and this one ranks right up there with the most retarded ever.

Not as retarded as the panty waists who hide under their beds for fear the pitbull bogeyman will get them

 

[Anguille]

There's no evidence that the guy abused the dogs, neglected, them, etc. How could a troupe of domesticated dogs do this?

Lorain County man mauled to death by stray dogs family had rescued | cleveland.com

Because no matter how badly dog lovers want to convince everyone otherwise, dogs are animals and not people at heart and are not hung up on the morays of life and death?

I mean, I love dogs, but I find people who are convinced that dogs are just little furry humans to be absurd.

Humans are not so safe either.

 

[Claudette]

OFA of hips and elbows is standard for an ethical breeder. I know. I used to raise German Shepherds where hip dysplasia is rampant.

In my years breeding, one litter a year, sometimes none at all. All my dogs were OFA goods. I had a female who was an OFA excellent once but her temprement was on the shy side and she became a pet period. Greatest couch potatoe in the world. Sweet dog but not one I would consider for breeding.

As for genetics, it all depends on what your breeding for.

With the GSD if your breeding for the show ring your going to try to go by the standard. Its a stupid standard in my book but thats what anyone breeding for show dogs is going to use when selecting for breeding said dog. The closer to the standard the better. (over angulated bs in my book)

If your breeding for security, military and police dogs you are looking for a bigger dog with more bone and intelligence and trainability with a four square look to them. No overangulation at all. Believe me, a working GSD would never get to first base in the show ring. Thank God.

I believe its the same for all sport, herding and working breeds. The Field English Pointer isn't going to look much like the fancy show ring dog.


Is that genetics?? Or just breeding for what your like and what fits into your program??

It is genetics in that when you select for certain traits - you are selecting genetics right? Many traits aren't always black/white dominant/recessive so it's difficult to determine what you might get.

I am not a breeder and don't plan on being one - my breed of choice is the (working) Australian Shepherd and, in exploring it's heritage, abilities, genetic issues and temperment issues I am much more comfortable letting a more knowledgable person do it. The breeder of my male dog breeds infrequently - for example, in the 9 years since Cowboy was born, she had no litters for most of those years, and two in the past year between her and a co-breeder. She breeds for herself and to preserve these lines. I have kept my boy intact at her request and she wants to use him. I would really like a puppy someday out of him but this particular female she wants to match him with has an edgy temperment and she is hoping Cowboy will take that edge off a little in the pups. She also asked me if I would mind if I would let her advise me on a pup because it was going to still be a pretty intense litter. Her pups are sold word of mouth to people who she knows or knows of their reputations. She keeps what doesn't sell. To me, that is a good responsible breeder. She doesn't do a whole lot of tests - she does OFA, but that's pretty much it. I did a bit more with Cowboy - I OFA'd, CERF, and ran him through a temperment test (really interesting!) and he has proven himself on sheep and cattle. If his breeder feels he is worth it, I trust her opinon but I would never do it on my own (not the least of which I really couldn't keep possibly a dozen dogs if I couldn't find the right homes for them or had to take them all back)...it's such a huge responsibility to me.

On a side note- German Shepherds have long been a favorite of mine, before I got Aussies, I had several. I love them still and someday, will have another. I know what you mean about the difference between show and working lines - and sometimes it's hard to believe they are the same breed. A friend of mine has a dog out of Czech/E. European lines and she is 4 square and moves beautifully - none of this walking on hocks with that ridiculous over-reaching front end. My aussies would be laughed out of the showring - I've been told by a handler I was chatting with that they can't be shown if they don't have trim - which is bs too.

I've had GSD's all my life. If you get a good GSD you will have the best dog on the planet in my book

I just laid my grand dog Andy to rest last month after 14 years.

Andy was all German working line. Solid temperment. You could take that guy into a crowd of a thousand people and he wouldn't bat an eye. I did some Shutzhund, herding and obedience with him. Kids and adults were equally safe with this big guy. He was protective without being agressive. He was 95 pounds of rock solid. One grand dog that I really miss.

My BC Jake is a rescue. Some dumbass that just had to have a BC. Of course he didn't research before he bought. Dumbass. Anyway Jake has herding titles and he's one great stock dog. He ain't to shabby for someones throwaway dog.

Both Andy and Jake would have been laughed out of the breed ring. What they lack in trim they more than made up for in intelligence and ability. I'll take that any day. LOL

I also have two little guys that I got from the pound. Zip is a Schnauzer/Cairn mix and Murph is a Schnauzer/Poodle mix. Designer dogs. Someone probably payed a bucket full of money for these two mutts and they both ended up at the pound.

Problem solving?? Thats Murph. One smart little pooch.

Love em all.

As for the Pittbull well its not a breed that interests me to own. Have nothing against them but I do believe I will stick with my GSD's and Border Collies and any other little dudes that strike my fancy. LOL

 

[topspin]

Any parent leaving a child with a pit would have been happy to have Michael Jackson as a sleepover baby sitter.

 

[Coyote]

that's retarded, you leave your kid with a pitbull. Me no thanks, they bite kids in the owners families all the time.

That's retarded.

If Pitbulls "bit kids in the owners families all the time" there would be far more than the roughly 23 or so dog-bite fatalities (all breeds combined) that occur in the year.

several happened in my area, feel free to leave little kids around pits I'll stick to non killers

You totally miss the point and your statement doesn't alter reality: Pitbulls aren't running around biting kids in the owners families all the time.

It's irresponsible to leave little kids unsupervised around ANY dog.

 

[Madeline]

I agree. It also seems to me that it's unkind to the dog. Little kids don't know enough not to climb on the dog, etc.

 

[sangha]

That's retarded.

If Pitbulls "bit kids in the owners families all the time" there would be far more than the roughly 23 or so dog-bite fatalities (all breeds combined) that occur in the year.

several happened in my area, feel free to leave little kids around pits I'll stick to non killers

You totally miss the point and your statement doesn't alter reality: Pitbulls aren't running around biting kids in the owners families all the time.

It's irresponsible to leave little kids unsupervised around ANY dog.

WHen I hear someone say "I would never leave my kids alone with a pit bull" I hear a moron who would leave their kids alone with a dog that's not a PB.

 

[Coyote]

OFA of hips and elbows is standard for an ethical breeder. I know. I used to raise German Shepherds where hip dysplasia is rampant.

In my years breeding, one litter a year, sometimes none at all. All my dogs were OFA goods. I had a female who was an OFA excellent once but her temprement was on the shy side and she became a pet period. Greatest couch potatoe in the world. Sweet dog but not one I would consider for breeding.

As for genetics, it all depends on what your breeding for.

With the GSD if your breeding for the show ring your going to try to go by the standard. Its a stupid standard in my book but thats what anyone breeding for show dogs is going to use when selecting for breeding said dog. The closer to the standard the better. (over angulated bs in my book)

If your breeding for security, military and police dogs you are looking for a bigger dog with more bone and intelligence and trainability with a four square look to them. No overangulation at all. Believe me, a working GSD would never get to first base in the show ring. Thank God.

I believe its the same for all sport, herding and working breeds. The Field English Pointer isn't going to look much like the fancy show ring dog.


Is that genetics?? Or just breeding for what your like and what fits into your program??

It is genetics in that when you select for certain traits - you are selecting genetics right? Many traits aren't always black/white dominant/recessive so it's difficult to determine what you might get.

I am not a breeder and don't plan on being one - my breed of choice is the (working) Australian Shepherd and, in exploring it's heritage, abilities, genetic issues and temperment issues I am much more comfortable letting a more knowledgable person do it. The breeder of my male dog breeds infrequently - for example, in the 9 years since Cowboy was born, she had no litters for most of those years, and two in the past year between her and a co-breeder. She breeds for herself and to preserve these lines. I have kept my boy intact at her request and she wants to use him. I would really like a puppy someday out of him but this particular female she wants to match him with has an edgy temperment and she is hoping Cowboy will take that edge off a little in the pups. She also asked me if I would mind if I would let her advise me on a pup because it was going to still be a pretty intense litter. Her pups are sold word of mouth to people who she knows or knows of their reputations. She keeps what doesn't sell. To me, that is a good responsible breeder. She doesn't do a whole lot of tests - she does OFA, but that's pretty much it. I did a bit more with Cowboy - I OFA'd, CERF, and ran him through a temperment test (really interesting!) and he has proven himself on sheep and cattle. If his breeder feels he is worth it, I trust her opinon but I would never do it on my own (not the least of which I really couldn't keep possibly a dozen dogs if I couldn't find the right homes for them or had to take them all back)...it's such a huge responsibility to me.

On a side note- German Shepherds have long been a favorite of mine, before I got Aussies, I had several. I love them still and someday, will have another. I know what you mean about the difference between show and working lines - and sometimes it's hard to believe they are the same breed. A friend of mine has a dog out of Czech/E. European lines and she is 4 square and moves beautifully - none of this walking on hocks with that ridiculous over-reaching front end. My aussies would be laughed out of the showring - I've been told by a handler I was chatting with that they can't be shown if they don't have trim - which is bs too.

I've had GSD's all my life. If you get a good GSD you will have the best dog on the planet in my book

I just laid my grand dog Andy to rest last month after 14 years.

Andy was all German working line. Solid temperment. You could take that guy into a crowd of a thousand people and he wouldn't bat an eye. I did some Shutzhund, herding and obedience with him. Kids and adults were equally safe with this big guy. He was protective without being agressive. He was 95 pounds of rock solid. One grand dog that I really miss.

My BC Jake is a rescue. Some dumbass that just had to have a BC. Of course he didn't research before he bought. Dumbass. Anyway Jake has herding titles and he's one great stock dog. He ain't to shabby for someones throwaway dog.

Both Andy and Jake would have been laughed out of the breed ring. What they lack in trim they more than made up for in intelligence and ability. I'll take that any day. LOL

I also have two little guys that I got from the pound. Zip is a Schnauzer/Cairn mix and Murph is a Schnauzer/Poodle mix. Designer dogs. Someone probably payed a bucket full of money for these two mutts and they both ended up at the pound.

Problem solving?? Thats Murph. One smart little pooch.

Love em all.

As for the Pittbull well its not a breed that interests me to own. Have nothing against them but I do believe I will stick with my GSD's and Border Collies and any other little dudes that strike my fancy. LOL

14 years...wow....that is a good life for a GSD, I'm sorry to hear you had to let him go. I like a good many breeds but really love the herding breeds - they are what I seem to end up with and 4 of my 5 dogs are rescues. I love BC's and fostered one I so wanted to keep, but she was young, active, had a lot to give for someone who had fewer dogs and the time to indulge her and work her so she ended up in a great home with BC experience. She too was a "throw away" dog - just hitting adolescence so naturally, they got rid of her rather than work with her. One of the things I love about GSD's though is there sense of humor. One of my GSD's was a "kleptomaniac" - you never knew what you'd find in her crate - forks, spoons, carberator parts, pans out of the sink, socks, bra's and of course an assortment legit toys (she'd follow the other dogs around until they lost interest in the toy they were carrying and then she'd nip in and snag it and haul it off to her crate). Good times

 

[Coyote]

Don't think I'd go hog wild over anything the AKC has to say.

The AKC is all about the money babe.

They have no problem taking the millions of dollars they get from puppy mills. These folks breed genetically inferior and usually unhealthy overpriced pups. The AKC takes their money to register these dogs, no problem. They tell you they are responsible and work toward the betterment of all AKC breeds but the proof is in the putting.

As for the smartest dog on the planet?? Border Collie hands down. These dogs are so smart they scare you. There is nothing you couldn't teach a BC to do and I mean nothing.

I wouldn't necessarily agree - people often confuse intelligence with trainability. Some of the smartest dogs are problem solvers who work for themselves - and, having owned several - I'm in awe of their talents but not always so appreciative of the clean up afterwards!

My BC is not your flashy show dog either. He's a stock dog. Loves to herd those sheep. I've shown my BC's in herding and obedience and their intelligence amazes me big time.

The BC is number one on the trainability list and deservedly so.

Problem solving?? Well my BC has figured me out pretty well. LOL

I've found in general many dogs are experts at reading us! Too bad humans aren't always so good in reverse.

BC's are awesome - they tend to learn very quick and are very focused on their people. I do herding with my male Aussie, and we've trialed in several venues. It's an interesting experience because his instincts are so strong but he so badly wants "his sheep" he'll focus on nothing else so achieving the right balance of partnership has been difficult for me. These dogs are amazing at reading their stock - and reacting before I'm aware of what the stock is doing. Problem solving though - that's a whole 'nother ball game. I used to have a GSD/Collie mix, Hootie, a huge gentle giant of a dog who could open anything - doors, cabinets, jars....gates. One time my friend was keeping him and my GSD, Mrs. Elsa Trashpicker, for a weekend while I was out of town. She has stockade fencing, and had stacked some cinderblocks in front of the gate to keep the dogs from opening it. She said she watched from a window while Hootie (with Elsa watching intently) systematically dismantled the cinderblocks and proceeded to open the gate! He was a great dog though, and funny as hell

 

[sangha]

One of my GSD's was a "kleptomaniac" - you never knew what you'd find in her crate - forks, spoons, carberator parts, pans out of the sink, socks, bra's and of course an assortment legit toys (she'd follow the other dogs around until they lost interest in the toy they were carrying and then she'd nip in and snag it and haul it off to her crate). Good times

My brother has a Cockalier (half Cocker half Cavalier) that does that. When I come over, he brings each "toy" out for me to see and play with.

 

[Anguille]

While I think that many of the purebreds are beautiful to look at, I feel sorry for them. It's all done to suit human needs and desires. Not much in it for the dogs.

I like mutts.

 

[AllieBaba]

That's retarded.

If Pitbulls "bit kids in the owners families all the time" there would be far more than the roughly 23 or so dog-bite fatalities (all breeds combined) that occur in the year.

several happened in my area, feel free to leave little kids around pits I'll stick to non killers

You totally miss the point and your statement doesn't alter reality: Pitbulls aren't running around biting kids in the owners families all the time.

It's irresponsible to leave little kids unsupervised around ANY dog.

Yes, they are. Statistically speaking. More often than any other dog.

You're right about unsupervised kids and dogs. Most kids bit by pits have parents right next to them, watching, unable to do anything.

 

[Anguille]

They likely aren't feral dogs and yes, shelters increasingly screen for aggression but a lot of times, problems don't show up right away or only in certain situations.

Yes, like when they are in a pack.
Dogs, alld dogs, are subject to pack mentality. The most gentle dog will kill if it is not the alpha in a group of dogs, and that group is out of control. And once a dog learns to hunt in a pack it doesn't stop.

That's why I get so infuriated with morons who let their dogs run, saying they're nice family dogs. IT DOESN'T MATTER. Nice family dogs are dangerous when they're joined up by a couple of other nice family dogs who are used to running and chasing things.

I so agree - pack behavior is poorly understood by most people - in fact, it's not to different from mob behavior in humans.

Dogs are social predators. They've evolved/ been bred for thousands of years to accept humans as part of their "packs" - but even with an incomplete toolbox of instincts, they are still predators - even the family Golden.

Yet, you'll hear people claim that Goldens or whatever is their breed of preference are the exception to the rule that dogs are predators. As if they weren't even dogs at all. People often confuse breed with species.

 

[AllieBaba]

Omg, I have to rep you for that, Ang.

Yuck!

 

[sangha]

several happened in my area, feel free to leave little kids around pits I'll stick to non killers

You totally miss the point and your statement doesn't alter reality: Pitbulls aren't running around biting kids in the owners families all the time.

It's irresponsible to leave little kids unsupervised around ANY dog.

Yes, they are. Statistically speaking. More often than any other dog.

You're right about unsupervised kids and dogs. Most kids bit by pits have parents right next to them, watching, unable to do anything.

Link?

 

[Anguille]

Omg, I have to rep you for that, Ang.

Yuck!

Ewww! It wasn't any more pleasant for me either! Now I feel like I need to take a shower.