Making it easier to vote makes it easier to cheat. Making it harder to cheat makes it harder to vote. Where to draw the line is the ??

[pknopp]

It's better for the country and for democracy if everyone votes at the polls on election day. Legitimate absentee ballots are very small in number in each district and should pose no real problem.

I never addressed that.

Now if we want voting at the polls we would support either making voting day a holiday or multiple days to vote including the weekend.

 

[Slade3200]

.

How more specific can that be?


.​

You can give an example

 

[Slade3200]

It's your responsibility to get yourself to the polls, not mine.

I never said it was your responsibility

 

[pknopp]

.

Why would I need to prove that?

You can deny the desire to attempt anything more secure if you need to.
I don't care who you vote for, and don't really care if you want to cheat.

The fact you don't care to seek continuous improvement, with better rules, requirements and procedures is all I need to know.
You have the Power to demand more from the people you elect and are willing to surrender that power to nonsense and mediocrity.

The best I can do is stay as far away from anything you can touch, and not depend on you for anything.
Of course ... I am not trying to fix the world, because the best I can tell, it doesn't want to be fixed.

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Make it more secure. I noted how you could do that but it seems secure really isn't what you are after.

 

[BlackSand]

You can give an example

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An example of inadequate rules or procedures would be rules or procedures that do not adequately address the concerns of the voting public.
An example of a lack of enforcement of existing rules and procedures would be when the poll workers don't enforce them.

An example of a lack of a desire by the General Public to address accountability and execution ...
Would be best demonstrated by you pretending that was hard to understand.

.​

 

[BlackSand]

Make it more secure. I noted how you could do that but it seems secure really isn't what you are after.

.

I don't need to pretend it is any harder than necessary to make it more secure.
It doesn't matter any more what it "seems" to you, than what it "seems" to me.

More secure is more secure ...
And if you don't care about that, I have already addressed how much that concerns me ...

.​

 

[Woodznutz]

I never said it was your responsibility

I meant mine meaning someone other than the subject person.

 

[Slade3200]

.

An example of inadequate rules or procedures would be rules or procedures that do not adequately address the concerns of the voting public.
An example of a lack of enforcement of existing rules and procedures would be when the poll workers don't enforce them.

An example of a lack of a desire by the General Public to address accountability and execution ...
Would be best demonstrated by you pretending that was hard to understand.

.​

I’m still not seeing any examples of how people would commit fraud

 

[Bobob]

What kind of cheating to do you think is occurring within our current system?

Not much cheating of any kind that has an effect on the outcome. If the idea is to encourage people to vote, then making it easy to vote would help in that effort.

 

[Moonglow]

If a 'shut in' or disabled person can be transported to a hospital in an emergency, they can be transported to a polling place on election day. Disabled people are more mobile than is generally believed. If voting is important enough to such people they will find a way to vote on election day. It also must be acknowledged that even in very important elections huge numbers of able-bodied citizens don't vote.

Then why does Trump ALWAYS vote through the mail?

 

[Moonglow]

You people are obsessive with the butthurt of Trump losing.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

If a 'shut in' or disabled person can be transported to a hospital in an emergency, they can be transported to a polling place on election day

So we should have ambulances taking these people to the polling places? Will we pay someone to push their beds for them up to the voting machines?

 

[schmidlap]

Photo ID or 2 utility bills with your name & address.

If there is any question a photo is taken of you and if you are found guilty of voter fraud you are executed!

All problems solved!

The fixation on individual, in-person voting is irrational. Voter fraud at the level it might impact the results of elections must be perpetrated in bulk - hacking into electronic tabulation or substitution of fake ballots in quantity.

Facilitating a citizen's right and responsibility to vote and eliminating barriers to doing so need not threaten the legitimacy of elections, as losers, unable to handle the truth, are apt to fraudulently allege.

Wherever electronic computation of registered votes are backed up by paper ballots, recounts, audits, and evidence-based court appeals can confirm the results of the democratic process.

Legal redress must not be impeded, either, of course. All those recounts, audits, and dozens of court appeals in the 2020 presidential election only served to repeatedly confirm the results, and underscore the Republican Director of the Cybersecurity's pronouncing it the most secure election in the nation's history.

Disenfranchising a portion of the electorate is anti-democratic. Paranoid notions that vast numbers of coordinated bogus balloters are engaged in a conspiracy to pervert elections is crackpot stuff. If you really wanted to pervert an election, that would be a very silly way to attempt it.

 

[Moonglow]

You people are obsessive with the butthurt of Trump losing.

So we should have ambulances taking these people to the polling places? Will we pay someone to push their beds for them up to the voting machines?

At five thousand dollars per voter it's a deal.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Almost any kind of requirement to vote besides just walking up to a polling place and saying "I want to vote," will mean that some people will be excluded from voting.

For example, picture ID seems a very reasonable requirement to ensure election integrity. It is required for almost any other important transaction. But there will always be someone who loses their ID over the weekend, and can't get off on Monday to go replace it, so they can't vote on Tuesday. So the question is will that happen often enough to be a significant concern, more significant than the danger of letting people vote without ID, and will that affect one type of voter more than other types of voters so that the election results would be affected?

My answer is that it is significant for even one person to be disenfranchised, but the few who would actually not be able to vote due to a lost ID or some other reason not to have one do not outweigh the need for elections we can trust. I also don't see why voters of one party are more likely to lose their ID than voters for another party.

Another example, mail in ballots. If they are unlimited, with every remote ballot mailed in or dropped off automatically counted with no recourse, that would be an open invitation to cheating. But if you eliminate mail-in ballots, that guarantees that some people will not be able to vote, and if you make the restrictions so hard that the very people who need a mail-in ballot cannot comply with the restrictions, you also disenfranchise people.

That is a tougher one, and a good solution would require good-faith negotiations. Shut-ins might need help with compliance with ID requirements for a mail-in ballot. Non-partisan volunteers could help make sure they can vote, but how to tell non-partisan volunteers who want to make sure older people get a say in elections from community organizers harvesting ballots to help one candidate win?

I don't have a solution that would please everyone. I do have a very distasteful idea that I'm afraid it may come to. I'll post that on another thread.

I think in order to answer this question, we need to see how bad of a problem voter/election fraud really is.

The Heritage Foundation keeps a running database of all proven voter fraud. Right now that number stands at 1375. That is 1375 nationwide since 1982.

In Presidential elections since that time there have been 1,170,176,733 votes cast. Add in half that much more for the mid-terms, to be conservatives and we are up to 1,775,265,100 total votes cast. And this does not include votes cast in local elections nor primaries.

But just using that number of votes we have one proven case of vote fraud for every 1,276,556 votes cast, and that not even adding in local, state or primary election.

Is this really a big enough problem that we need to take the chance of keeping someone from voting to try and fix it?

 

[Woodznutz]

Then why does Trump ALWAYS vote through the mail?

Because he can, like millions of others.

 

[Woodznutz]

Photo ID or 2 utility bills with your name & address.

If there is any question a photo is taken of you and if you are found guilty of voter fraud you are executed!

All problems solved!

They should also be punished severely if they vote for a Democrat.

 

[Woodznutz]

So we should have ambulances taking these people to the polling places? Will we pay someone to push their beds for them up to the voting machines?

There should be handicapped ramps. That would make it easier to push the beds and wheelchairs.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

There should be handicapped ramps. That would make it easier to push the beds and wheelchairs.

Or we could just let them vote by mail from home like a civilized society.

I suppose you think every single military member should fly home to their home state to vote every election

 

[Woodznutz]

Or we could just let them vote by mail from home like a civilized society.

I suppose you think every single military member should fly home to their home state to vote every election

Not if they vote Republican.