Majority of Americans favor wealth tax on very rich: Reuters/Ipsos poll

[Markle]

So I could legally pay the least amount of taxes possible. I also wanted to anticipate the size of the check I'd have to write that year.

One year Tony advised me to buy an SUV before the year's end. They are built on a truck frame and chassis and weighed over 6,000 pounds. That made them equipment and qualified me for a $25,000 tax credit, not deduction, a credit. I hated it and couldn't wait to sell it but I saved a pile of money!

In one post you showed everything that is wrong with our tax code.

But you big government statist just love it the way it is.

Where did I say I love it the way it is?

Do you believe that half of our households should get a free ride and not be responsible in any way to help support this country financially? Why or why not?

 

[Andylusion]

I would rather see a small fee on every stock and real estate transaction

You can be wealthy....but if you try to move your money around, you will pay

Please show us all a tax or fee, that it was said, "it is only a small fee" in the beginning, a small fee ot tax today?

I already pay tax on my profits when I sell stocks. I also pay taxes when I buy or sell a property.

Why should you or I PAY simply for having moved money from one investment to another?

How much does a broker charge on a stock transaction? Add one percent to that fee. Keeps the wealthy from hiding their wealth.

You pay taxes on the profit? That one percent would come off of your profit

You mysteriously avoided my question. I'll try again. "Please show us all a tax or fee, that it was said, "it is only a small fee" in the beginning, and is a small fee or tax today?"

I answered

Somewhere around one percent on every stock transaction
It would generate massive tax revenue
We could probably reduce taxes elsewhere

I don't think it would generate that much in tax revenue, because it would discourage trading stocks.... don't you think?

From my understanding, traders on exchanges, often make barely a fraction of a percent on hundreds of their trades. They are buying 10000 shares, in X Corp, see it go up 20 cents, and sell off the shares at a marginal profit. While each individual trade is small, and the profits are tiny... they do hundreds of these trades a day.

If you levy a 1% tax on each trade, the result wouldn't be massive revenue, but rather a massive crash in the number of trades. Most trades would cease to be profitable, and thus would not be done at all.

And you could even have some unintended consequences, namely that with a sharp drop in the number of trades, you could end up with a decline in the market overall. It's those small trades, each bidding up the other, that can causes stock values to rise over time.

It's like an auction. The reason you have everyone biding up $5 each time, is because if you had everyone bid up $1,000, no one would bid. But $5 each bid, and you end up $3,000 higher in price, because the difference between $1455, and $1460 is a small incremental step. Each step is small, and thus keeps going.

But with your 1% tax on trades, I think you would cut out all the small incremental bids, because it wouldn't be worth it.

Of course this is speculation. But it seems like a 1% tax would greatly harm the system.

Not to mention that, all these companies could just de-list, and put their stocks on other exchanges that do not have the 1% tax.

Remember, whether you like it or not, this is a global economy. If you tax capital here, there are always other countries that will not tax capital, and would be more than happy to take our business.

 

[jc456]

I would rather see a small fee on every stock and real estate transaction

You can be wealthy....but if you try to move your money around, you will pay

Please show us all a tax or fee, that it was said, "it is only a small fee" in the beginning, a small fee ot tax today?

I already pay tax on my profits when I sell stocks. I also pay taxes when I buy or sell a property.

Why should you or I PAY simply for having moved money from one investment to another?

How much does a broker charge on a stock transaction? Add one percent to that fee. Keeps the wealthy from hiding their wealth.

You pay taxes on the profit? That one percent would come off of your profit

You mysteriously avoided my question. I'll try again. "Please show us all a tax or fee, that it was said, "it is only a small fee" in the beginning, and is a small fee or tax today?"

I answered

Somewhere around one percent on every stock transaction
It would generate massive tax revenue
We could probably reduce taxes elsewhere

I don't think it would generate that much in tax revenue, because it would discourage trading stocks.... don't you think?

From my understanding, traders on exchanges, often make barely a fraction of a percent on hundreds of their trades. They are buying 10000 shares, in X Corp, see it go up 20 cents, and sell off the shares at a marginal profit. While each individual trade is small, and the profits are tiny... they do hundreds of these trades a day.

If you levy a 1% tax on each trade, the result wouldn't be massive revenue, but rather a massive crash in the number of trades. Most trades would cease to be profitable, and thus would not be done at all.

And you could even have some unintended consequences, namely that with a sharp drop in the number of trades, you could end up with a decline in the market overall. It's those small trades, each bidding up the other, that can causes stock values to rise over time.

It's like an auction. The reason you have everyone biding up $5 each time, is because if you had everyone bid up $1,000, no one would bid. But $5 each bid, and you end up $3,000 higher in price, because the difference between $1455, and $1460 is a small incremental step. Each step is small, and thus keeps going.

But with your 1% tax on trades, I think you would cut out all the small incremental bids, because it wouldn't be worth it.

Of course this is speculation. But it seems like a 1% tax would greatly harm the system.

Not to mention that, all these companies could just de-list, and put their stocks on other exchanges that do not have the 1% tax.

Remember, whether you like it or not, this is a global economy. If you tax capital here, there are always other countries that will not tax capital, and would be more than happy to take our business.

it would shut it down. again, the left hasn't a clue.

 

[Andylusion]

It is almost impossible to identify and tax all of someone’s wealth.

But as they move that wealth around, the transaction can be taxed

Right... which would cause them to move that wealth outside the country, where you can see it, and still not be able to tax it.

Again, why do you think Burger King moved to Canada, when the corporate tax was 40%? Numerous companies, like Seagate, which is now in Ireland, because of taxing wealth.

Same is true of individually wealthy people. Happens all the time.
The Mass Migration of the Super-Rich

You can try and tax them all you want. In the end, you will lose, and they'll be fine.

Remember Venezuela tried that. So did France. It failed for everyone who has tried it.

 

[Markle]

are loopholes legal?

Technically yes.

so?

I was about to ask the same thing. Did you have a point?

well you seem irritated that they use legal tools. Why is that? why does your ass get chaffed because a company follows laws? MY POINT!

I'm chaffed because this is how the wealthy manipulate the system to their advantage.

How is a company, or individual at fault for following the law?

What did I do wrong when I took advantage of a law allowing me to buy an SUV AND get a $25,000 tax credit? Technically it was a truck and I did use it in my business.

 

[colfax_m]

Technically yes.

so?

I was about to ask the same thing. Did you have a point?

well you seem irritated that they use legal tools. Why is that? why does your ass get chaffed because a company follows laws? MY POINT!

I'm chaffed because this is how the wealthy manipulate the system to their advantage.

How is a company, or individual at fault for following the law?

What did I do wrong when I took advantage of a law allowing me to buy an SUV AND get a $25,000 tax credit? Technically it was a truck and I did use it in my business.

Who do you thinks writes the law?

 

[Markle]

They manipulate the system so that it does allow it. That’s why the tax code is complex. They don’t want a simple tax code since that can’t be manipulated.

You don’t know anything about me. I do very well for myself.

IF you're doing very well, then you're part of the households that pay Federal Income Taxes. Come April 15th of this year, when you mail in your tax return, will you calculate them so you pay the most possible or the least you can legally pay?

 

[Markle]

so?

I was about to ask the same thing. Did you have a point?

well you seem irritated that they use legal tools. Why is that? why does your ass get chaffed because a company follows laws? MY POINT!

I'm chaffed because this is how the wealthy manipulate the system to their advantage.

How is a company, or individual at fault for following the law?

What did I do wrong when I took advantage of a law allowing me to buy an SUV AND get a $25,000 tax credit? Technically it was a truck and I did use it in my business.

Who do you thinks writes the law?

I certainly don't. Once again, how is a company, or individual at fault for following the law?

 

[Markle]

It is almost impossible to identify and tax all of someone’s wealth.

But as they move that wealth around, the transaction can be taxed

Why should anyone's wealth be confiscated just because it is there?

 

[colfax_m]

They manipulate the system so that it does allow it. That’s why the tax code is complex. They don’t want a simple tax code since that can’t be manipulated.

You don’t know anything about me. I do very well for myself.

IF you're doing very well, then you're part of the households that pay Federal Income Taxes. Come April 15th of this year, when you mail in your tax return, will you calculate them so you the most possible or the least you can legally pay?

I pay what I should. I don’t use loopholes and take advantage of the law.

 

[colfax_m]

I was about to ask the same thing. Did you have a point?

well you seem irritated that they use legal tools. Why is that? why does your ass get chaffed because a company follows laws? MY POINT!

I'm chaffed because this is how the wealthy manipulate the system to their advantage.

How is a company, or individual at fault for following the law?

What did I do wrong when I took advantage of a law allowing me to buy an SUV AND get a $25,000 tax credit? Technically it was a truck and I did use it in my business.

Who do you thinks writes the law?

I certainly don't. Once again, how is a company, or individual at fault for following the law?

The people the write the laws tend to help themselves.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I would rather see a small fee on every stock and real estate transaction

You can be wealthy....but if you try to move your money around, you will pay

Please show us all a tax or fee, that it was said, "it is only a small fee" in the beginning, a small fee ot tax today?

I already pay tax on my profits when I sell stocks. I also pay taxes when I buy or sell a property.

Why should you or I PAY simply for having moved money from one investment to another?

How much does a broker charge on a stock transaction? Add one percent to that fee. Keeps the wealthy from hiding their wealth.

You pay taxes on the profit? That one percent would come off of your profit

You mysteriously avoided my question. I'll try again. "Please show us all a tax or fee, that it was said, "it is only a small fee" in the beginning, and is a small fee or tax today?"

I answered

Somewhere around one percent on every stock transaction
It would generate massive tax revenue
We could probably reduce taxes elsewhere

I don't think it would generate that much in tax revenue, because it would discourage trading stocks.... don't you think?

From my understanding, traders on exchanges, often make barely a fraction of a percent on hundreds of their trades. They are buying 10000 shares, in X Corp, see it go up 20 cents, and sell off the shares at a marginal profit. While each individual trade is small, and the profits are tiny... they do hundreds of these trades a day.

If you levy a 1% tax on each trade, the result wouldn't be massive revenue, but rather a massive crash in the number of trades. Most trades would cease to be profitable, and thus would not be done at all.

And you could even have some unintended consequences, namely that with a sharp drop in the number of trades, you could end up with a decline in the market overall. It's those small trades, each bidding up the other, that can causes stock values to rise over time.

It's like an auction. The reason you have everyone biding up $5 each time, is because if you had everyone bid up $1,000, no one would bid. But $5 each bid, and you end up $3,000 higher in price, because the difference between $1455, and $1460 is a small incremental step. Each step is small, and thus keeps going.

But with your 1% tax on trades, I think you would cut out all the small incremental bids, because it wouldn't be worth it.

Of course this is speculation. But it seems like a 1% tax would greatly harm the system.

Not to mention that, all these companies could just de-list, and put their stocks on other exchanges that do not have the 1% tax.

Remember, whether you like it or not, this is a global economy. If you tax capital here, there are always other countries that will not tax capital, and would be more than happy to take our business.

Exactly. I don't really have stocks outside of what my investment company has in the stock market for my IRA, but I have traded commodities for a couple of years. Most of those trades don't last very long. Very often you buy a contract, and get rid of it less than a month. Some of my trades were only for one day, but on average, they were usually a week or two.

In any case, capital gains are lower taxed to influence investing. The more you tax investments, the less investments you will have. However if you are going to increase the taxation on profit, then it's only fair to have additional write-offs for losses as well. In the end, no real gain for the government.

 

[Markle]

that's why we should have a federal sales tax on products purchased. The poor would then actually have to contribute for services they use.

That doesn't get around the problem. It still requires constant intrusion from government to implement consistently.

how so? dude, don't throw and go. explain your fking point.

My biggest complaint with income tax is that it requires government to monitor how everyone makes a living. It requires us to document our financial activities and report them to the government. Sales tax has the same problem, and is arguably worse because it interferes with every single trade transaction. This means you risk running afoul of the law multiple times a day.

Could you please explain that one? How does sales tax make one run the risk of breaking the law?

If you don't document the sale and pay the tax correctly.

That's on the vendor, not the vendee.

 

[Markle]

well you seem irritated that they use legal tools. Why is that? why does your ass get chaffed because a company follows laws? MY POINT!

I'm chaffed because this is how the wealthy manipulate the system to their advantage.

How is a company, or individual at fault for following the law?

What did I do wrong when I took advantage of a law allowing me to buy an SUV AND get a $25,000 tax credit? Technically it was a truck and I did use it in my business.

Who do you thinks writes the law?

I certainly don't. Once again, how is a company, or individual at fault for following the law?

The people the write the laws tend to help themselves.

Once again, how is a company, or individual at fault for following the law?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Where did I say I love it the way it is?

Do you believe that half of our households should get a free ride and not be responsible in any way to help support this country financially? Why or why not?

Of course not, nobody should get a free ride.

 

[dblack]

That doesn't get around the problem. It still requires constant intrusion from government to implement consistently.

how so? dude, don't throw and go. explain your fking point.

My biggest complaint with income tax is that it requires government to monitor how everyone makes a living. It requires us to document our financial activities and report them to the government. Sales tax has the same problem, and is arguably worse because it interferes with every single trade transaction. This means you risk running afoul of the law multiple times a day.

Could you please explain that one? How does sales tax make one run the risk of breaking the law?

If you don't document the sale and pay the tax correctly.

That's on the vendor, not the vendee.

So what?

 

[Markle]

They manipulate the system so that it does allow it. That’s why the tax code is complex. They don’t want a simple tax code since that can’t be manipulated.

You don’t know anything about me. I do very well for myself.

IF you're doing very well, then you're part of the households that pay Federal Income Taxes. Come April 15th of this year, when you mail in your tax return, will you calculate them so you the most possible or the least you can legally pay?

I pay what I should. I don’t use loopholes and take advantage of the law.

Typical, dodging the question.

Come April 15th of this year, when you mail in your tax return, will you calculate them so you pay the most possible or the least you can legally pay?

I have been a Realtor for over 45 years. As such, I worked as an independent contractor, in business for myself. As such, when I would buy a new computer, take a class in New Orleans, or buy an SUV instead of a luxury car, I could deduct all those things from my gross income. Should I have NOT taken those deductions because you could not? Was that a loophole? Certainly not.

 

[colfax_m]

They manipulate the system so that it does allow it. That’s why the tax code is complex. They don’t want a simple tax code since that can’t be manipulated.

You don’t know anything about me. I do very well for myself.

IF you're doing very well, then you're part of the households that pay Federal Income Taxes. Come April 15th of this year, when you mail in your tax return, will you calculate them so you the most possible or the least you can legally pay?

I pay what I should. I don’t use loopholes and take advantage of the law.

Typical, dodging the question.

Come April 15th of this year, when you mail in your tax return, will you calculate them so you pay the most possible or the least you can legally pay?

I have been a Realtor for over 45 years. As such, I worked as an independent contractor, in business for myself. As such, when I would buy a new computer, take a class in New Orleans, or buy an SUV instead of a luxury car, I could deduct all those things from my gross income. Should I have NOT taken those deductions because you could not? Was that a loophole? Certainly not.

It’s a dishonest question. There’s a lot of difference between “pay the most” or “pay the least”.

You aren’t using any loopholes because average people don’t have the means or capability to do so. Loopholes are for the elite.

 

[Markle]

how so? dude, don't throw and go. explain your fking point.

My biggest complaint with income tax is that it requires government to monitor how everyone makes a living. It requires us to document our financial activities and report them to the government. Sales tax has the same problem, and is arguably worse because it interferes with every single trade transaction. This means you risk running afoul of the law multiple times a day.

Could you please explain that one? How does sales tax make one run the risk of breaking the law?

If you don't document the sale and pay the tax correctly.

That's on the vendor, not the vendee.

So what?

So what? Because this is what you posted which is totally not true. dblack: "This means you risk running afoul of the law multiple times a day."

How? As the vendee, please be specific how I run the risk of running afoul of the law multiple times a day.

 

[dblack]

My biggest complaint with income tax is that it requires government to monitor how everyone makes a living. It requires us to document our financial activities and report them to the government. Sales tax has the same problem, and is arguably worse because it interferes with every single trade transaction. This means you risk running afoul of the law multiple times a day.

Could you please explain that one? How does sales tax make one run the risk of breaking the law?

If you don't document the sale and pay the tax correctly.

That's on the vendor, not the vendee.

So what?

So what? Because this is what you posted which is totally not true. dblack: "This means you risk running afoul of the law multiple times a day."

How? As the vendee, please be specific how I run the risk of running afoul of the law multiple times a day.

Good god. It's like talking to the "jury" in Idiocracy.

Try to follow along. I stated that I opposed income tax because it required government getting in our business. Some nitwit proposed sales tax as an alternative, but that has government in our business just as much as income tax. Arguably more. That's all I was saying.

But if you can't respond intelligently, feel free to focus in irrelevant minutiae if it makes you feel like you're contributing.