Lockdown Fans: What Is Your Endgame Plan?

[bripat9643]

80,004 deaths in the US from Covid 19 divided by 1,346,339 Cases =5.89% (fatality rate). It's really not that complicated.
Sweden has a population of just under 10 million and no cities with a population over a million. The US has a population 330 million with 14 cities over million. The population density of Sweden's major cities is a fifth of the density of major US cities. On a per captia bases there's 32% more deaths in Sweden from Covid 19 than in the US. Sweden approach to testing has been essential workers only such as medical, police and fire which probably accounts for their low numbers of total cases reported and high numbers of deaths. You call that successful?

If vaccines aren't an option maybe you should share your knowledge with the 23 companies that are working on them and the 3 that are going into testing.

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

"Reported cases" is a number far smaller than the number of people infected. The later is 20 to 50 times larger.

 

[bripat9643]

People who want the lockdowns to continue spend a lot of time shouting slogans and congratulating themselves on how they're "the only ones who care about saving lives", but I have yet to hear any of them tell us what their actual plan is for an endgame, or how they envision the future going forward if we were to cave in to their demands.

So I'd really like to know: if you could convince all the governors to continue the lockdowns, what do you think that looks like? How long do you want it to last, and/or what is your metric for ending it? And then what happens? What's your plan going forward from there? Do you have one?

1. It should last as long as necessary to bring the daily cases of new virus down to a level that is very low.
2. From there, with the proper increase in testing, contact tracing, and isolation, then the economy can begin to slowly open up.
3. The rate of new virus cases should be low enough that testers and contact tracers can research and control each case including isolating anyone that came in contact with the positively infected person.
4. This low level of daily new cases and large scale testing and contact tracing, will then make it safe to begin to reopen parts of the economy that are closed.
5. But the United States needs to hire about 200,000 contact tracers and train them.
6. Testing must be increased.
7. Those isolated must be given a place to live away from other people but with their basic needs supplied for 2 to 4 weeks.

The lockdowns would not have been necessary to this degree if we had simply done what TAIWAN did on January 20, 2020. On that date, the blocked all travel from anywhere into the country. Citizens were only let in when they could be tested and had to be isolated for 2 to 4 weeks before they could have physical contact with other people.

The results are that TAIWAN has only had 440 cases, and 6 deaths. There are currently only 79 active cases in Taiwan which are contained their testing, contact tracing and isolation. By June, Taiwan will likely be free of the virus and will be able to lift more restrictions. Schools were able to remain open in Taiwan as well as restaurants.

It should end tomorrow, no ifs ands or buts.

Doing so will widen the spread of the virus, kill thousands of more Americans, and be more damaging to the economy in the long run. Consumers won't go out and spend money unless they feel it is safe. Just opening up your restaurant or movie theater does not mean consumers will come and spend their money there.

That's why you double down on making the environment safe so the consumer will return to do business. Opening up now just risks more spread and death and won't do anything to help the economy in the long run.

The main problem here with your scenario, if you wait until there is a cure for this virus, there won't be anything to reopen and the economy will be in shambles. A 12-18 month lockdown would be a catastrophe.

Reopening after that length of time isn't something which is done overnight at all. Finding capital for inventory, recruiting and hiring staff all takes time, and there won't any customers out there with money. Digging your way out of a great depression would be a 20 year project.

These people who believe the shutdown will last until the end of the year are positively insane. We should never have even started it.

 

[bripat9643]

People who want the lockdowns to continue spend a lot of time shouting slogans and congratulating themselves on how they're "the only ones who care about saving lives", but I have yet to hear any of them tell us what their actual plan is for an endgame, or how they envision the future going forward if we were to cave in to their demands.

So I'd really like to know: if you could convince all the governors to continue the lockdowns, what do you think that looks like? How long do you want it to last, and/or what is your metric for ending it? And then what happens? What's your plan going forward from there? Do you have one?

1. It should last as long as necessary to bring the daily cases of new virus down to a level that is very low.
2. From there, with the proper increase in testing, contact tracing, and isolation, then the economy can begin to slowly open up.
3. The rate of new virus cases should be low enough that testers and contact tracers can research and control each case including isolating anyone that came in contact with the positively infected person.
4. This low level of daily new cases and large scale testing and contact tracing, will then make it safe to begin to reopen parts of the economy that are closed.
5. But the United States needs to hire about 200,000 contact tracers and train them.
6. Testing must be increased.
7. Those isolated must be given a place to live away from other people but with their basic needs supplied for 2 to 4 weeks.

The lockdowns would not have been necessary to this degree if we had simply done what TAIWAN did on January 20, 2020. On that date, the blocked all travel from anywhere into the country. Citizens were only let in when they could be tested and had to be isolated for 2 to 4 weeks before they could have physical contact with other people.

The results are that TAIWAN has only had 440 cases, and 6 deaths. There are currently only 79 active cases in Taiwan which are contained their testing, contact tracing and isolation. By June, Taiwan will likely be free of the virus and will be able to lift more restrictions. Schools were able to remain open in Taiwan as well as restaurants.

It should end tomorrow, no ifs ands or buts.

Doing so will widen the spread of the virus, kill thousands of more Americans, and be more damaging to the economy in the long run. Consumers won't go out and spend money unless they feel it is safe. Just opening up your restaurant or movie theater does not mean consumers will come and spend their money there.

That's why you double down on making the environment safe so the consumer will return to do business. Opening up now just risks more spread and death and won't do anything to help the economy in the long run.

Horseshit. Nothing can damage the economy more than shutting it down. Consumers are already going out and spending. Coronovirus is a small risk to most people. If we can go to the grocery store, we can go to work.

 

[sakinago]

1. It should last as long as necessary to bring the daily cases of new virus down to a level that is very low.

In your opinion, if Joe Biden is elected, and implements a Lockdown in January 2021, how long would it take? Remember, here in America, you aren't going to get 100% compliance. Also, recruiting and training 200,000 tracers isn't going to happen over night.

You make a World War II scale effort, and you will have the contact tracers you need within months. The United States can use its large police and military forces to help enforce compliance. This is a war against a pathogen, and anyone failing to obey the law is not only a law breaker, but a traitor to their country.

You forgot to say hiel hitler at the end

 

[KGB]

1. It should last as long as necessary to bring the daily cases of new virus down to a level that is very low.

In your opinion, if Joe Biden is elected, and implements a Lockdown in January 2021, how long would it take? Remember, here in America, you aren't going to get 100% compliance. Also, recruiting and training 200,000 tracers isn't going to happen over night.

You make a World War II scale effort, and you will have the contact tracers you need within months. The United States can use its large police and military forces to help enforce compliance. This is a war against a pathogen, and anyone failing to obey the law is not only a law breaker, but a traitor to their country.

First off jack ass, learn how things work. The only “US police force” is the FBI & the other smaller agencies such as ATF, DEA, & US Secret Service. All the rest (vast majority) are state & local. Second, the US military can’t be used for law enforcement. It’s called Posse Comitatus. Thirdly, Name me the Constitutional authority the President has to do a national shutdown. Quote me chapter & verse. A big hint...it doesn’t exist. Before you start throwing out the term “law breaker”, at least have the grace to know how the law works first...

 

[sakinago]

1. It should last as long as necessary to bring the daily cases of new virus down to a level that is very low.

In your opinion, if Joe Biden is elected, and implements a Lockdown in January 2021, how long would it take? Remember, here in America, you aren't going to get 100% compliance. Also, recruiting and training 200,000 tracers isn't going to happen over night.

You make a World War II scale effort, and you will have the contact tracers you need within months. The United States can use its large police and military forces to help enforce compliance. This is a war against a pathogen, and anyone failing to obey the law is not only a law breaker, but a traitor to their country.

First off jack ass, learn how things work. The only “US police force” is the FBI & the other smaller agencies such as ATF, DEA, & US Secret Service. All the rest (vast majority) are state & local. Second, the US military can’t be used for law enforcement. It’s called Posse Comitatus. Thirdly, Name me the Constitutional authority the President has to do a national shutdown. Quote me chapter & verse. A big hint...it doesn’t exist. Before you start throwing out the term “law breaker”, at least have the grace to know how the law works first...

In that case the biggest law breaker would be the government. The left (and many on the right too) were very quick to jump on Barr for wanting to postpone hearings and trials during the quarantine, effectively suspending habeus corpus...but goddamn they are quick at putting together the browncoats in the name of “security”. They were all over bush for the patriot act, but Snowden comes out and tells us how out of hand it got and they shrug their shoulders. They were right in both cases of the patriot act and Barr. Now they’re sounding down right scary. These are the same people who are all for snitching on neighbors.

 

[sakinago]

People who want the lockdowns to continue spend a lot of time shouting slogans and congratulating themselves on how they're "the only ones who care about saving lives", but I have yet to hear any of them tell us what their actual plan is for an endgame, or how they envision the future going forward if we were to cave in to their demands.

So I'd really like to know: if you could convince all the governors to continue the lockdowns, what do you think that looks like? How long do you want it to last, and/or what is your metric for ending it? And then what happens? What's your plan going forward from there? Do you have one?

1. It should last as long as necessary to bring the daily cases of new virus down to a level that is very low.
2. From there, with the proper increase in testing, contact tracing, and isolation, then the economy can begin to slowly open up.
3. The rate of new virus cases should be low enough that testers and contact tracers can research and control each case including isolating anyone that came in contact with the positively infected person.
4. This low level of daily new cases and large scale testing and contact tracing, will then make it safe to begin to reopen parts of the economy that are closed.
5. But the United States needs to hire about 200,000 contact tracers and train them.
6. Testing must be increased.
7. Those isolated must be given a place to live away from other people but with their basic needs supplied for 2 to 4 weeks.

The lockdowns would not have been necessary to this degree if we had simply done what TAIWAN did on January 20, 2020. On that date, the blocked all travel from anywhere into the country. Citizens were only let in when they could be tested and had to be isolated for 2 to 4 weeks before they could have physical contact with other people.

The results are that TAIWAN has only had 440 cases, and 6 deaths. There are currently only 79 active cases in Taiwan which are contained their testing, contact tracing and isolation. By June, Taiwan will likely be free of the virus and will be able to lift more restrictions. Schools were able to remain open in Taiwan as well as restaurants.

It should end tomorrow, no ifs ands or buts.

Doing so will widen the spread of the virus, kill thousands of more Americans, and be more damaging to the economy in the long run. Consumers won't go out and spend money unless they feel it is safe. Just opening up your restaurant or movie theater does not mean consumers will come and spend their money there.

That's why you double down on making the environment safe so the consumer will return to do business. Opening up now just risks more spread and death and won't do anything to help the economy in the long run.

The main problem here with your scenario, if you wait until there is a cure for this virus, there won't be anything to reopen and the economy will be in shambles. A 12-18 month lockdown would be a catastrophe.

Reopening after that length of time isn't something which is done overnight at all. Finding capital for inventory, recruiting and hiring staff all takes time, and there won't any customers out there with money. Digging your way out of a great depression would be a 20 year project.

They really should have suspended all mortgage payments. The relief is just another bailout for the banks since most of that money will be spent on mortgages and rent. The banks already got a bailout when they should not have in 2008. Time to help the people for once and make the banks take this one on the chin.

 

[sakinago]

WTF did this thread get moved into conspiracy theories? The admins here are getting ridiculous. whatever admin did that can go fuck themselves.

 

[Flopper]

1. It should last as long as necessary to bring the daily cases of new virus down to a level that is very low.

In your opinion, if Joe Biden is elected, and implements a Lockdown in January 2021, how long would it take? Remember, here in America, you aren't going to get 100% compliance. Also, recruiting and training 200,000 tracers isn't going to happen over night.

You make a World War II scale effort, and you will have the contact tracers you need within months. The United States can use its large police and military forces to help enforce compliance. This is a war against a pathogen, and anyone failing to obey the law is not only a law breaker, but a traitor to their country.

By calling out the national guard in all states we would have all the people we need. Tracing contacts requires a lot of footwork and limited training. However, with out adequate testing, it won't work because to do the job right, you need to contact both primary and incidental contacts, testing each one, quarantining positives, tracing, testing, and quarantining, all contacts etc... If we did this throughout the population for several months, we have life back to normal, not the new normal, whatever that might be.

 

[Flopper]

1. It should last as long as necessary to bring the daily cases of new virus down to a level that is very low.

In your opinion, if Joe Biden is elected, and implements a Lockdown in January 2021, how long would it take? Remember, here in America, you aren't going to get 100% compliance. Also, recruiting and training 200,000 tracers isn't going to happen over night.

You make a World War II scale effort, and you will have the contact tracers you need within months. The United States can use its large police and military forces to help enforce compliance. This is a war against a pathogen, and anyone failing to obey the law is not only a law breaker, but a traitor to their country.

First off jack ass, learn how things work. The only “US police force” is the FBI & the other smaller agencies such as ATF, DEA, & US Secret Service. All the rest (vast majority) are state & local. Second, the US military can’t be used for law enforcement. It’s called Posse Comitatus. Thirdly, Name me the Constitutional authority the President has to do a national shutdown. Quote me chapter & verse. A big hint...it doesn’t exist. Before you start throwing out the term “law breaker”, at least have the grace to know how the law works first...

I don't know of any law that allows the president to take the steps governors have taken, but in most states, orders of the governor, particular in a time of a state emergency carry the weight of law. Would the courts agree? In general, I think they would considering the orders are directed at saving the lives of citizens and protecting their health.

The powers of the president in a national emergency comes from statues that address the type of emergency. In the declaration the president specifies the reason for the declaration and the statues that authorize the actions he may take under the declaration. Both congress and the courts can override his declaration or specific powers he is using.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

WTF did this thread get moved into conspiracy theories? The admins here are getting ridiculous. whatever admin did that can go fuck themselves.

Yeah that’s how these assholes operate while they bow down to the governments wishes,always have.

 

[KGB]

1. It should last as long as necessary to bring the daily cases of new virus down to a level that is very low.

In your opinion, if Joe Biden is elected, and implements a Lockdown in January 2021, how long would it take? Remember, here in America, you aren't going to get 100% compliance. Also, recruiting and training 200,000 tracers isn't going to happen over night.

You make a World War II scale effort, and you will have the contact tracers you need within months. The United States can use its large police and military forces to help enforce compliance. This is a war against a pathogen, and anyone failing to obey the law is not only a law breaker, but a traitor to their country.

First off jack ass, learn how things work. The only “US police force” is the FBI & the other smaller agencies such as ATF, DEA, & US Secret Service. All the rest (vast majority) are state & local. Second, the US military can’t be used for law enforcement. It’s called Posse Comitatus. Thirdly, Name me the Constitutional authority the President has to do a national shutdown. Quote me chapter & verse. A big hint...it doesn’t exist. Before you start throwing out the term “law breaker”, at least have the grace to know how the law works first...

I don't know of any law that allows the president to take the steps governors have taken, but in most states, orders of the governor, particular in a time of a state emergency carry the weight of law. Would the courts agree? In general, I think they would considering the orders are directed at saving the lives of citizens and protecting their health.

The powers of the president in a national emergency comes from statues that address the type of emergency. In the declaration the president specifies the reason for the declaration and the statues that authorize the actions he may take under the declaration. Both congress and the courts can override his declaration or specific powers he is using.

Yes, but we aren't talking about the governors here. We are talking about the federal level which U2 doesn't get.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Exactly. I just love this 12-year-old asshat's airy assumption that 1) there will actually be anyone left with money to buy or start businesses, and 2) that even if there were, they would WANT to buy those businesses.

You will have people like Jeff Bezos, who continued to make money during the crisis, and who will come out of it with huge stockpiles of cash. They will see the real estate, and business markets crash, not from want of business, but from being forced to shut down. The pent up demand, will make any reopened business a success.

That will be a buying opportunity for anybody with a dollar to spend.

You continue to be an idiot who knows nothing about economics, but thinks that your reflexive, envious hatred of anyone with money can substitute for the knowledge you lack.

Even if every millionaire and billionaire in the country decided to start buying up closed businesses and foreclosed real estate on the back of this economic collapse, every cent of their net worth would still only be a drop in the bucket of businesses and properties involved. And I can assure you that none of them will have any desire to sink every penny they own - which they DON'T have in a big money vault like Scrooge McDuck, whatever you think; most of any wealthy person's net worth is tied up in non-liquid assets - into bankrupt small businesses and foreclosed real estate, particularly in a collapsed economy full of financial uncertainty. They have no more interest in carrying that crap on their books than the banks do.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Even if there WAS a vaccine, as you so confidently assert with not a shred of definitive proof, there would still be the possibility of a new, mutated strain of Covid-19. Even if one didn't show up, there would still be the fear on many people's minds that it COULD.

People are not afraid of what "could" happen. Are you afraid of a resurgence of SARS, or MERS, or H1N1, or ebola, or the 1918 spanish flu, or polio, or whooping cough?

Are you going to lock yourself in your house with a years worth of canned goods and bottled water?

P.S. and toilet paper.

Are you bothering to read anything I'm saying, or are you just having a grand ol' time feeling like Mister Clever Capitalist, trying to play out the glorious debating victory you imagined in your head before actually encountering reality and real people?

As any other halfwitted troll on this board could tell you, I don't take well to asshats trying to write scripts for me and then force me to say the lines they REALLY WANT to argue against.

I'm not actually the one arguing for extended lockdowns, fuckwit; YOU are, on the asinine basis that "the economy is invincible, and capitalism will just bounce it all back in a week whenever I stop being chickenshit."

I'm in favor of gradual and responsible reopening right now, because I know the economy is going to struggle for quite a while to get back on its feet, and the longer we keep this lockdown shit going, the harder and longer that struggle is going to be, and at some point soon, the damage is going to be nigh-irreversible.

So reach up, grab your ears, and pull until you hear the popping noise that indicates your head has left your rectum. It's time to deal with the REAL debate, not the cartoon version you pictured having.

 

[Cecilie1200]

If Jeff Bezos or the BOD of WalMart was interested in starting nail salons, wouldn't you think they'd have already done so?

It's the old stock market adage. Buy LOW, sell HIGH.
Prior to this crisis, nail salons were at their market HIGH. This crisis has pushed them to their market LOW, or even lower into bankruptcy.

When a recovery starts, the people with money will invest it in those bankrupt businesses. Which supply and demand, makes them guaranteed money makers.

When a recovery starts, people with money will NOT be investing in nail salons and similar small businesses, and they sure as shit will not be investing in the ones which closed. I think you vastly overestimate the profit margins on small businesses, if you think there's some overwhelming financial benefit for other people who aren't even in that line of business to go buying them up.

And that's completely aside from the fact that banks don't sell foreclosed businesses as complete packages, moron. They repossess the assets and/or collateral and sell it piecemeal to recoup a small percentage of the defaulted loan, hound the defaulting borrower into his grave for whatever other money they can get, and then have to eat the rest of that loan as a business loss. Why do you think it's so hard to get a bank loan? Why do they crawl up your ass with microscopes, double-checking every inch of your financial history? Did you just think it was because they were mean and sadistic? It's because THEY DON'T WANT TO FORECLOSE; THEY WANT YOU TO PAY THE LOAN BACK.

Dumbass.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You might want to talk to some bankers if you think it's either that easy OR that desirable. I defy you to find one banker in the US who's as sanguine about being left holding a glut of bankrupt businesses they have to sell or liquidate in the middle of a collapsed economy.

What you don't understand is that the economic collapse is not due to economics, but to politics.
Economics is a slow process, while politics is a fast one. Remember when they put a 55mph speed limit in place, and slowed the highways from 70+mph to 55mph. That's what the government did or the coronavirus. Take away that speed limit and cars would return to doing 70mph as soon as the signs came down. That's what the economy is waiting for.

What you don't understand is that you're not conveying complicated, unknown-to-all-but-the-brilliant-like-you info, twink. You're babbling nonsense based on a level of economic knowledge that my 11-year-old would find shamefully simplistic and childish.

The economy ain't the speed limit, shitforbrains. There's not even a comparison between a driver flexing his foot an inch farther on the accelerator and a multi-trillion dollar economy (formerly) made up of 350 million+ people recovering from a complete shutdown.

It literally nauseates me that fools like you can wander around preening yourself about how "knowledgeable" your ignorance makes you. If you had even an inkling of how fucking abysmally stupid you sound right now, you'd be on a suicide hotline out of shame.

 

[Polishprince]

Did you just think it was because they were mean and sadistic? It's because THEY DON'T WANT TO FORECLOSE; THEY WANT YOU TO PAY THE LOAN BACK.

Dumbass.

It would have to be a pretty hot real estate market and economy for a bank to actually do well with a foreclosure. And in an economy like that, the borrower would be able to bail out with a willing buyer in that kind of market and avoid foreclosure completely. In a poor market, no one wants to buy and the bank gets stuck with crap on its portfolio of real estate.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Americans, by a large 30-point margin, are resistant to re-opening the country now, believing the risk to human life of opening the country outweighs the economic toll of remaining under restrictive lockdowns -- a concern that starkly divides along partisan lines, according to a new ABC News/Ipsos released Friday. ​

It's not the only poll showing this result either. I know, I know, you've been programmed to disregard any information you don't want to be true but your confirmation bias is not my problem.

The polls only indicate that the 24/7 news cycle of alarmism regarding the corona panic has swayed the opinion of a lot of people.

As people see things open up in Georgia, in Mississippi and other forward thinking parts of the country, their opinions will change. And that's why radicals on the coast are fighting the efforts of people in the interior to get back to normalcy.

Yeah, people aren't as dumb as you. When they see the virus spike in places like Georgia it's going to be painfully obvious why.

What "spike?"

Georgia cases are increasing. Wait for the spike because with their economy allegedly opening the outcome is going to be pretty obvious. Georgia already has more cases and deaths per capita than California by almost double.

I'm sure you hope that will be the case, but my guess is that the opening of the Great State of Georgia will occur with no particular problems at all, leading other states to follow suit. Maybe not Far Left New York, but other, forward thinking states.

No, my hope would be that COVID will mutate out of existence but you can't count on hope.

There is not a shred of evidence that supports opening up will lead to fewer cases, quite the opposite.

So far as I can tell, there has been no evidence actually suggesting that lockdowns lead to fewer cases and/or fewer deaths, either. Which makes sense, since they were never intended for that purpose. The lockdowns were only ever supposed to delay cases and spread them out over time, so that the hospitals wouldn't be overrun. The models never suggested that the eventual end totals wouldn't be the same either way.

As far as I can tell you didn't really look.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-05-08/big-decline-in-wash-state-coronavirus-cases-after-stay-home-orders

As far as I can tell, you didn't really think. Washington has been locked down, but it's still generating cases.

We're moving the goal posts then? Did Washington reduce their cases due to social distancing or not? They did. Actually most places that effectively practiced social distancing and stay at home have reduced their cases or kept them low. San Francisco Bay Area, Washington State, Michigan and the NYC area are all seeing reductions in new cases yet if you remove those areas the remaining population of the U.S. is still going up.

Here is what is happening in NYC vs the rest of the United States. By reopening further it's just going to push much of the country back up.

View attachment 333918

Where are those coming from, if lockdowns utterly prevent people from getting sick like you keep pretending? Where is the model showing us that the end total number of cases is going to be lower? EVERY model indicates that, months down the road (barring a deus ex machina), the exact same number of people are going to have been infected. The only difference is whether they get infected now, or a month from now.

Did I ever say that stay at home measures alone reduce cases to zero immediately? No, why are you lying and saying I did? Very disingenuous of you or perhaps you're just not that bright. Which one?

Exact same number will be infected? That sounds whimsical.

So what is your suggestion? That places with zero deaths or very few deaths should close and not open until after New York does?

No, according to Trump's guidelines they should see 14 days of straight decline, most states haven't. I would actually say 4 weeks but hey, who am I?

You're a retired old coot who doesn't need to earn a living and who doesn't care if people starve and lose everything they have ever worked for.

I'm old and retired? That's news to me. I do earn a living and I'm still working. I've also managed to generate wealth and save so in those respects I am very fortunate. Though the way you're shitting on people living in retirement I'm not surprised if you don't care if they live or not.

Anyway, I understand insulin is expensive so I'm sorry you have to deal with that.

So you have a source of income that isn't affected by the shutdown.

Did I say that? Nope.

What a fucking douchebag. Everyone in here who supports the shutdown has an income that isn't affected by the shutdown.

How noble of you to tell other people they aren't allowed to work.

I think temporarily the government should pay wages for those who lose their job. I don't mind my taxes eventually going up for that, more than happy to pay them.

ROFL! How many weeks do you imagine the government can pay everyone their wages?

You people are totally fucking insane.

It'll cost trillions.

Tens of trillions. Then we'll spend the next 1000 years trying to pay it off.

You're mentally disturbed if you believe that's a viable plan.

Ok, go ahead and give that money to corporations instead.

Anyway, it's not like there was any plan to pay off Trump's unnecessary tax cuts and record deficits anyway. I guess you only have a problem when the money goes to people who need it.

Actually, the tax cuts were absolutely necessary to pull America out of the depth of Obamunism. And tax cuts aren't an expenditure, they don't have to be "paid off"

It is fortunate that America had the benefit of the tax breaks, else we would be in a worse position now.

The economy was doing just fine, we didn't need tax cuts unless we were in recession. All he did was allow corporations to buy back stock and add to the national debt.

Or so says your talking points, and why would you want to let facts get in the way of your marching orders?

 

[Cecilie1200]

WTF did this thread get moved into conspiracy theories? The admins here are getting ridiculous. whatever admin did that can go fuck themselves.

Yeah that’s how these assholes operate while they bow down to the governments wishes,always have.

If I had any idea how to protest such a ridiculous, lame, and irrelevant move, I'd do so. Anyone who thinks a discussion of, "So what alternative plan would you like to suggest?" is somehow a "conspiracy theory" is either not very bright or has an agenda.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Did you just think it was because they were mean and sadistic? It's because THEY DON'T WANT TO FORECLOSE; THEY WANT YOU TO PAY THE LOAN BACK.

Dumbass.

It would have to be a pretty hot real estate market and economy for a bank to actually do well with a foreclosure. And in an economy like that, the borrower would be able to bail out with a willing buyer in that kind of market and avoid foreclosure completely. In a poor market, no one wants to buy and the bank gets stuck with crap on its portfolio of real estate.

Exactly. And not in any market does the bank actually want to foreclose, because even if they have the ability to resell the property, they still can end up losing money on the time and effort it takes to do so. And that's with actual real estate like a foreclosed home. Foreclosing on a small business loan is a net loss for the bank no matter what the economy is like, because small businesses typically don't have any serious assets for the bank to resell to recoup anything like the amount of the loan.